Margaret Thatcher has died

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The NHS is the last great thing left in this country.

It's definitely something to be proud of.

You'll both be interested to know it was quietly killed in the night through enough confusing words the media chose not to report on it, and its powers spread across hundreds of independent bodies and "commissioning groups" all susceptible to profit seeking.
 
you mean that scheme where a few people made a lot of money and now there is a severe lack of social housing, with many former council flats in london now being owned and rented out by fat cat landlords for thousands of ponunds a month?

That same scheme put a lot of low-income households on the property ladder that wouldn't have been able to afford their own houses otherwise.

It was a bit daft selling 'em at less than the replacement cost and not building more social housing though, indeed.
 
CNN on the ball with an appropriate image :

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She fucked more miners than Saville could have ever hoped too.

Let's give her the same respect she gave the 96,their families and Liverpool.
 
That exists, companies such as Bupa etc. can provide that. Just for the vast majority of the population, the NHS is good enough.

The NHS is Britain Crown Jewel, and there's a reason even Thatcher couldn't damage it.

I thought private health care in the UK just plugged the gaps of the NHS rather than offer a complete health care solution in parallel?

I could very well be wrong but that was my impression. Will have to read up further.
 
or, you know, maybe they studied history and now have an opinion.
Not many people do it, I know.

It just seems odd to go as far a "glad she's dead" attitude, even though she has been powerless for years, and most of these people have only ever felt the echoes of her influence.
 
I thought private health care in the UK just plugged the gaps of the NHS rather than offer a complete health care solution in parallel?

I could very well be wrong but that was my impression. Will have to read up further.

Yes, I think you're going to have to.
 
Worth remembering that the deregulation of the banks which happened under Thatcher pretty much directly caused the financial collapse we are currently experiencing.

Thatcher's legacy is utterly toxic, she didn't save this country, she sold it down the river.
 
That same scheme put a lot of low-income households on the property ladder that wouldn't have been able to afford their own houses otherwise.

It was a bit daft selling 'em at less than the replacement cost and not building more social housing though, indeed.

the good it did to some people once can't account in any way for the harm its caused since though

the basic idea of a right to buy is fairly sound, but its implementation was horrible, each house sold should've been replaced (at least on a 1 for 1 basis, preferably more though) and decent safeguards put in place against profiteering
 
Sigh. Let me break it down to you. I have no problem with a public health care system. I just want a private health care system to exist in parallel. Like Australia, Canada, and NZ.

That way people who want to fork out for a higher level of health care they can. The NHS lags most other developed countries when it comes to health care outcomes.

We have a private healthcare system too.
In fact the only thing private health care doesn't provide is accident and emergency services, which remain with the NHS. Pretty much any planned surgery or procedure can be done privately.
 
I thought private health care in the UK just plugged the gaps of the NHS rather than offer a complete health care solution in parallel?

I could very well be wrong but that was my impression. Will have to read up further.

Oh so your insane opinion was born of ignorance then. Well thats okay then, go educate yourself!
 
I thought private health care in the UK just plugged the gaps of the NHS rather than offer a complete health care solution in parallel?

I could very well be wrong but that was my impression. Will have to read up further.

You are completely wrong, so yes, you will have to read up further.
 
It just seems to odd to go as far a "glad she's dead" attitude, even though she has been powerless for years, and most of these people have only ever felt the echoes of her influence.

So what exactly is your cut off point for when people should stop caring what a leader does in their country?

5 years? 10? 20?

Does this pre-determined period of amnesty extend to all leaders or just the really naughty ones? Maybe Hitler should have just kept his head down for a few years?
 
Oh so your insane opinion was born of ignorance then. Well thats okay then, go educate yourself!

Still lagging behind other countries in terms of health care outcomes according to an OECD report.

The NHS is still an expensive, over bureaucratic system that needs to be streamlined.
 
Yes, good. A western War Criminal (aka protected species) has finally met her maker.
Some of you really need to grow up. Celebrating the death of someone because they led the political party opposite to the one you vote for is immature and shortsighted. You people do realise that ANY person elected to lead a country will appease some and anger others. That's the whole point of democracy, the freedom to chose a leader, and as a result there will be opposing views. Let's not kid ourselves that any leader in any nation has been perfect. Every decision will please someone and anger someone else.

There is no such thing as a universally approved leader, so should we celebrate every death in politics? Get over yourselves and have some respect. She wasn't just a prime minister, she was a mother, she had friends and neighbours. She was a person, a Briton. She didn't butcher millions or run a rule of tyranny, she led the country as she was elected to do so. She didn't murder her opponents, she axed free milk in schools. Whether you personally wanted her in charge doesn't warrant vile gravedancing.
 
I hate Cameron more than most but he isn't even in the same league as Thatcher.

I don't know... His willingness to demonize a distinct section of the population (the unemployed and those on welfare) shows a leaning towards fascism that I'm not sure even Thatcher was capable of.

Then again, I was barely alive in Thatchers time... so I don't know exactly what it was like.
 
I thought private health care in the UK just plugged the gaps of the NHS rather than offer a complete health care solution in parallel?

I could very well be wrong but that was my impression. Will have to read up further.

Noone (apart from the very well off) ever really bothers to go completely private for absolutely everything. Completely private healthcare does exist (apart from A&E/ER), its just it make financial sense to use a mixture.

Bear in mind that the vast majority of consultant British doctors work a mixture of NHS and private work, so all you're effectively paying for nicer facilities, better drugs in some occasional cases but not most, etc. the doctors treating you are no better - which is an inherent strength of the NHS

EDIT: beaten.

Also, the NHS perhaps could do with some streamlining in terms of bureaucracy, but in terms of what it does, the vast majority of the British population wants it to be bigger rather than smaller.
 
the good it did to some people once can't account in any way for the harm its caused since though

the basic idea of a right to buy is fairly sound, but its implementation was horrible, each house sold should've been replaced (at least on a 1 for 1 basis, preferably more though) and decent safeguards put in place against profiteering

Yep its more or less why we are seeing this fucking unreal bedroom tax, also all those houses they sold for buttons in my city they have had to buy most of the back and knock them down to build new ones, what utter waste.
 
Still lagging behind other countries in terms of health care outcomes according to an OECD report.

The NHS is still an expensive, over bureaucratic system that needs to be streamlined.

Forgive me if I won't continue the debate on my country's health service with someone who didn't even understand Bupa and similars exist.
 
So what exactly is your cut off point for when people should stop caring what a leader does in their country?

5 years? 10? 20?

Does this pre-determined period of amnesty extend to all leaders or just the really naughty ones? Maybe Hitler should have just kept his head down for a few years?

I think you're missing my point. Everyone has an opinion on her, but to be glad someone is dead who is no longer in power surely requires some real animosity, and to attain that level of animosity I think you had to have been there, as an adult, feeling the effects. Otherwise... being glad she's dead... really? I don't see it.
 
Some of you really need to grow up. Celebrating the death of someone because they led the political party opposite to the one you vote for is immature and shortsighted. You people do realise that ANY person elected to lead a country will appease some and anger others. That's the whole point of democracy, the freedom to chose a leader, and as a result there will be opposing views. Let's not kid ourselves that any leader in any nation has been perfect. Every decision well please someone and anger someone else.

There is no such thing as a universally approved leader, so should we celebrate every death in politics? Get over yourselves and have some respect. She wasn't just a prime minister, she was a mother, she had friends and neighbours. She was a person, a Briton. She didn't butcher millions or run a rule of tyranny, she led the country as she was elected to do so. Whether you personally wanted her in charge doesn't warrant vile gravedancing.


You actually think people are glad she is dead because she was a Tory?

Fucking lol.


She directly ruined millions of lives with her rule of tyranny.
 
I don't know... His willingness to demonize a distinct section of the population (the unemployed and those on welfare) shows a leaning towards fascism that I'm not sure even Thatcher was capable of.

Then again, I was barely alive in Thatchers time... so I don't know exactly what it was like.

The demonization of the poor is one of the Tories' greatest achievements over the past few years.

The initial outcry when Kenneth Clarke referred to the "feral underclass" a few years ago would not be repeated today I fear.
 
You'll both be interested to know it was quietly killed in the night through enough confusing words the media chose not to report on it, and its powers spread across hundreds of independent bodies and "commissioning groups" all susceptible to profit seeking.
Anywhere I can read up on this?
 
The following is just my impression as a German.

Isn't that part of the entire strategy? Punishing the poor and the working class enforces competition (which is what companies want). Additionally it makes those with higher social status feel "better" ("We're off pretty bad, but at least we're off better than xyz") and causes them to fight harder for their current situation, for their status quo (which one could argue benefits conservative parties). On top of that she broke the power of unions instead of seeking to reform them or work together with them (see Germany as an example that worked out much better), which again strengthened the position of companies (and in turn the wealthy).

I'm not under the impression she punished them (just) for fun, but because of a terrible ideology.

That said, I can't feel joy over her death and I hope she'll rest in peace.

Edit:

Depends on what side of the fence you are on. The UK unions would tend to call a strike if they didn't like the bog roll that was being supplied to them when she came into power. It was a bit of a mess...
 
I think you're missing my point. Everyone has an opinion on her, but to be glad someone is dead who is no longer in power surely requires some real animosity, and to attain that level of animosity I think you had to have been there, as an adult, feeling the effects. Otherwise... being glad she's dead... really? I don't see it.

mmm, I will be glad when Blair dies as it is unpalatable to me that he is allowed to walk around free after causing so many deaths even though he is no longer in power.
 
Keep digging.

Sure thing.

According to new OECD figures, Britain fares badly in international health comparitors among developed nations. We may not be at the bottom of the league, but we are pretty far down. British victims of cancer and heart disease, in particular, have a lower survival rate than almost anywhere else in the industrialised world. And, contrary to widespread belief, per capita spending on healthcare in the UK is above the OECD average.

Source
 
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