Wikipedia, the fount of all accurate knowledge? Which also says:
next to that very claim?
Margaret Thatcher has died
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Wikipedia, the fount of all accurate knowledge? Which also says:
next to that very claim?
More Fun To Compute
Member
This makes no sense. UK is a quite large economy and at the time north sea gas and oil was a highly profitable industry. It was the reason why she had the power to give it to the miners while previously the country was seriously reliant on coal and miners could shut the country down.
Wasn't the only source, but yes I take your point.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Of course it does. It offers the profitable ones. That's why private-only isn't a great idea.
You still mad that I pulled you up about your claim that the govt pays bills whilst on benefits?
Continue simplifying as I said more power to you.
Sorry Powah...
Whatever I've said, it certainly hasn't been backpeddling, and I'm reasonable enough to openly backpeddle if necessary. I'm certainly not backpeddling furiously, and I'm not quite sure why you've taken it upon yourself to declare otherwise.
Are we getting into the territory of not only debating people's opinions but their motivations behind those opinions? That it isn't enough if we disagree with each other but now I'm backpedalling or posting for some other ulterior motive than speaking my mind?
I also never said people were attacking Thatcher purely because she was a party leader. I presented that as a view but I never said it was the single reason. There's probably Conservative voters who dislike her. I didn't feel the need to present a bullet-pointed manifesto of reasons, it was just one approach I specified.
Getting away from Thatcher conversation you've made some big assumptions about my posts there. Even though I've addressed the issues you raised about my posts, and only I know why I used certain words, I doubt there'll be any sort of understanding because most people live in an argumentative "yeah, but" bubble of refusing to be wrong. (not about Thatcher, about the backpeddling, etc).
Edit: Apology in advance if it's actually my fault for being vague or unclear about something previously.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Arksy came in, made his silly, uninformed point. Was corrected, claimed he'd do further research and now is just clutching at straws.
Arsenal2022
Member
That's a supply and demand thing; if people wanted a private alternative to the entire set of NHS care, it would exist, but they just don't, and that's just a reflection of British society more than anything else.
Do remember that the NHS is also a very emotive subject, hence the attacks, and the while the British moan about it on end, they don't take kindly to attacks on it, particularly from those from overseas who criticise its socialized nature; the idea of a monopolized healthcare system is not something the British see anything wrong with.
Its tongue in cheek I think, The ban was stupid anyway
NekoFever
Member
It scared the shit out of me when I was a kid.
N
NinjaFridge
Unconfirmed Member
Someone got it.
Ha, me too! I was only about six years old when I first saw those terrifying rubbery heads flapping around on TV.
It was a little more than stupid (it was daft), she censored an elected politician and denied his electorate their voice (not that it was not easily overcome but the principal remains).
Thats the thing. There are too many idiots in this country that think that if the Conservatives win, Liberal & Labour votes should be combined as they believe they are the same.
Yet they forget that when it comes to civil liberties, a major Lib Dem principle, its actually the Libs & Cons that are closer.
Which is not surprising that during Labour's 13 years of power, more civil liberties were done away with than any other period in peace time history. Only the world wars beat Labour out.
frankie_baby
Member
hypothetical situation imagine a small town/village miles from anywhere, the biggest employer by far is the government owned coal mine, technically the mine isn't really profitable runs at a small loss however the jobs there keep the town viable as the miners have wages to spend on goods and services supporting the other jobs in the town and overall the town brings in a small amount of tax revenue for te government, now imagine big bad government decides the mine needs to be closed as its losing money, so thats a thousand people out of a job straight away, then no more money in the town meaning more and more job losses elsewhere in town, so then you end up with huge unemployment and everyone on benefits draining money from the country
except this isn't a hypothetical situation, this is what maggie did up and down the country
oh and their are many other reasons having a coal mining industry would be good for our country but i'll be here all day
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Agreed, some of the responses in this thread are absolutely insane. This isn't even a simple left/right divide, because the vast majority of liberals I know aren't so hateful and venomous.
R.I.P. Margaret, now you can visit Ronald Regan in White Heaven.
snoopeasystreet
Member
I was walking home from work today and I felt lighter for some reason. Now I know why.
I was never advocating a private-only system. Just one that resembled what I consider a very well functioning health care system in Australia which has a universal health care system but a large portion of people who also have private health cover.
Clearly. Thanks.
The lib dems by definition is a party of two halves.
You have the orange bookers, clegg, Alexander etc
You have the social democratic Ming Campbell, Kennedy, cable etc
One half would be as well joining the conservatives the other half labour. Also don't forget that they marketed themselves to the left of labour until joining the tories and taking a giant leap right.
In fact, I see something seriously wrong with private healthcare like the US has. I think it's despicable.
As a person with a genetic illness which has been treated from birth, I cannot imagine how I (and particularly my parents) would have managed without the NHS.
I never said that the government pays the bills whilst on benefits? They do pay the bills if you receive entirely benefits as an income, but if your income isn't made up entirely of benefits then they don't.
Is it really a difficult concept for you to grasp that?
PJV3
Member
She's dead, she can't hear us. And to be honest she got off on people hating her.
Yeah, from late last year I think. Have I Got News For You is on this week too.
He still has to inhale helium before he speaks publicly though to subtract credibility from his statements.
No Bugle for a few weeks, alas.
But taxpayers are going to be the ones funding the losses of that mine. Is that fair for the rest of the country's people? And as the country's economy grows, unionised miners are going to be demanding ever more wages which makes the country's mines even more uncompetitive compared to mines located in third-world countries. What then?
Fact times importance equals news.
I thought John was back this week...
Yes you did, you stated that 53 pound was left AFTER bills are paid. Trying to wish away what you said doesn't make it happen.
Nice ad hom btw.
Edit also in no case do the govt pay anything other than housing. You may get winter fuel payments which again don't pay your bills.
Yes we could be but only if you believe those working in the industrial sector works for about 180pound a month.
If not, say hello to China & India who have a massive workforce that gets paid peanuts
frankie_baby
Member
so how is tax payers funding the losses of a mine any worse than funding a whole dead town on benefits?
More Fun To Compute
Member
So the role of government is to make sure that if the country is uncompetitive then it's citizens should be made to suffer as much as possible until they somehow become competitive through some unknown process? A lot of viable industry went to the wall when she took over, not just government coal mining. She had to go back on her policies in the end but it was too late. Manufacturing in this country was gutted.
They're both unsustainable and unfair.
Was stupid in the face you still heard what they had to say you just couldn't broadcast their voices. RTÉ done it as well. It was so hard to get used to adams real voice when the ban ended
She didn't do that at all. The largest customer of our government subsidized coal was our own subsidized power stations which was subsidized by everybody up and down the country.
The correct thing to have done would have been to run down the industry in a controlled way as was done in Europe but Thatcher inherited an industry which was far too big because of over-dependence on coal as a prinary fuel for power generation and earlier coal strikes where the NUM had asserted that mines should only close when the last tonne of coal had been extracted. That led to the situation of men travelling miles underground to work seams only a few inches thick - no matter what the price of oil might be there was no way that could be profitable.
After 13 years of Labour government how many mines have they re-opened if the figures stack up as you say?
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
As an Irishman, I'm finding it rather difficult to give a flying fuck about this.
Finally a fellow voice of reason. People seem to think political opinion and common decency cannot go hand in hand. "This politician whose decisions I disagreed with has died, so she can burn in hell."
I've never seen such irrational vitriol.
CyclopsRock
Member
Quite...
She should have praised Stalin instead, it would have gotten her much praise from the people dancing on her grave and a nobel prize perhaps.
That's bizarre. I finally got around to watching Iron Lady yesterday - which is really a celebration of her willpower and her weird 'feminism'
Still, I grew up during her reign and it's legacy and I will not miss her. Nor will I put up with the kind of hagiography Reagan got once people thought nobody was looking.
She was a spiteful old witch and did far more harm than good for Britain's poor. She also partnered with Reagan in some unprecedented hubris and brinksmanship.
Oh yes and she instituted a poll tax.
Did you live and work through her tenure?
Still, I grew up during her reign and it's legacy and I will not miss her. Nor will I put up with the kind of hagiography Reagan got once people thought nobody was looking.
She was a spiteful old witch and did far more harm than good for Britain's poor. She also partnered with Reagan in some unprecedented hubris and brinksmanship.
Oh yes and she instituted a poll tax.
Did you live and work through her tenure?
CyclopsRock
Member
There's also a lot of "As a Northerner/Irishman/Welshman/Scouser/Chilean Opposition Member" etc in this thread. Seems like a line of faux-authenticity that doesn't fly in any arena other than Thatcher bashing.
No the unfair thing was throwing people onto the dole and not having any jobs ready to be filled. A sensible person would have been investing in those areas before the mines were closed so there would be work. Alas though they didn't vote tory sop she never gave a shit.
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