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Boston: One dead, one captured, city re-opened

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That isn't what happened. They didn't just command people, and if they did, guess what? It was an extreme case in which they were doing it to save lives. You have to consider that there could have been a situation where this guy was inside someone's house holding them or their family hostage. Their saying "everything is fine" is simply not good enough sometimes.

I'm not saying the LEOs involved did anything wrong. Haven't heard of any cases where they entered a house uninvited without a warrant.

However, I can't agree with your post. A homeowner conceivably could be coerced into covering for any fugitive. I don't want the police capable of tossing my house if there's a fugitive in my general area, without my approval.
 
So in the end, it was a terrorist attack or just some sociopath ?

Evidence Points to 2 Young Chechen that In recent years the Older Brother at a minimum got hooked on Extremist Islam. They were both very promising athletes/students before they went radical so its hard to know what happened. Something the Radical Cleric said sunk in. Russia had warned US of older brother back in 2011 but US deemed him not a threat then he took off for 6 months last year overseas to the Chechen region and well we know what happened from there.
 
The home to home search spectacle was an overreaction by LEO imo. I couldn't see them pulling something like that off in a pro-gun southern state. They would undoubtedly run into resistance which would cause even more trouble.

I keep seeing people say things like this on other sites, but really what else could they do? Suspect at large with possible IEDs and rifles/automatic pistols. What action should they have taken instead?
 
So in the end, it was a terrorist attack or just some sociopath ?

the term "domestic terrorism" means activities that -
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation
of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended -
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by
intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass
destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of
the United States.

I'd say: yes.
 
There are so many oddities in their behaviour, during and after they placed the bombs, that makes it difficult for me to categorise them as conventional terrorists. Maybe it's merely because the younger one looks so young, and acts like a kid on his twitter, that we want to believe he was manipulated in some way and that he didn't want this. Personally speaking? I don't think that is playing a large part in my attitude but I get the impression we may see a story emerge that goes beyond the typical terrorist plot in terms of their motivations. The younger one grew up in the states from a small age. People are naturally curious as to how/when he became radicalised.

Remember the original photos? He didn't even think to hide his face, whereas his brother came with shades and wore his cap forward. It's no coincidence the photo of the 7-11 released is of the White Hat brother; he was the one most easily identifiable. Is that naivety? Arrogance? And then to give yourself up to the police later? What kind of Jihadi is that? He apparently, unlike his brother, did not wear an explosive vest. We don't know much yet, but of what we do know, there is certainly a distinction between the two.

Yeah like I said, he shows the same signs other murderers have shown before.

Check this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=496901

The younger brother was acting the same way.

I don't know how to describe it, but to me it's a pattern I've seen before. The simple term would be sociopath, but it comes with a lot of baggage that doesn't fit. A better term IMO is "self-less extrovert". People who have no sense of self-worth, no goals, but are usually very social and will easily follow others if it gives them a sense of "being" someone. They are looking to become someone, without actually having a sense of self. It makes them easy pawns, and dangerous since without compassion (due to lack of sense of self), and those people often end up in gangs and commit crimes without remorse.

This was after the murder in the above story:
At 8:16 p.m., a 15-year-old Clayton boy logged onto Facebook and, along with nearly 17,000 other people across the country, clicked "Like" on the FIND AUTUMN PASQUALE page.

But authorities say Justin Robinson knew exactly where Pasquale was because he allegedly lured her to his home on East Clayton Avenue on Saturday afternoon and then beat and strangled the seventh-grader with the help of his brother, Dante Robinson, 17, before they stuffed her into a blue recycling container.

"Might be moving," Justin wrote Sunday, adding a sad-face emoticon to the message.

Countless other quotes in the thread such as this:

27bcb62ab6551f96ca88fe71d8104d03

His reply to the murdered girl's brother who posted that police were looking for his sister:
Brother: Police have called in the hounds to help look for my sister
Killer: You mean dogs?
Brother: Yeah, they are using dogs now

And him and his brother even went to a vigil for the girl and smiled about it/laughed.

So IMO, the younger Tsarnaev brother is one of those "self-less extroverts", probably because he grew up with little supervision, unlike his older brother who spent 20 years with his family/father. The older brother radicalized and his younger brother followed him aimlessly.

Speculation, but IMO the character of both young brothers in both cases are very similar.

edit: Summit: no
 

Air travel is a right?

Why are you talking about reports that may or may not exist? Come back when you actually have some proof.

That equipment sure came in handy this time.

Air travel is not but privacy is.


And do tell how was the tank handy in tracking down a wounded 18 year old that weighted all of what 100lbs? Also Why are you getting so hostile? All I said was that the reports of power abuse where not true.
 
sunil_tripathi_facebook_photo.jpg.CROP.article568-large.jpg


I'm not saying you should publicly apologize like reddit or other websites, but on this website you were most definitely part of the problem along side many members here, who completely disregarded rational advice not to pursue pure speculative leads and continually refused to stop even amongst better judgement.

Yeah last night was frankly embarrassing.
 
You want the government to be able to enter and search your house whenever they want with no warrant? You trust them to only use this power when it's for good? Think of the implications of what you're saying.

I really dont want to get into this debate so I'll stop replying.

anyways legally, there are something called hot pursuit exceptions and the like. if cops are chasing somebody, no warrant needed. i'm sure if this stuff happened the police would claim to be operating under such rules. but i'm still very sensitive about our freedoms.

A secure perimeter while searching for a suspected terrorist who was in that area, had detonated bombs resulting in the death of Americans , shot and killed a police officer, and who threw explosives and exchanged gunfire with police officers does not equal "whenever they want". Also, you might want to research what exigent circumstances are, it goes into detail about the "rules" you don't have a firm grasp on.
 
And why shouldn't steps be taken to protect people on our flights, since, you know, countless people were unwilling participants in a suicide bombing that day. What's a little inconvenience to make sure a loved one gets home alive?

This taking away freedom stuff goes way too damn far. I don't like the patriot act either, but if it helps to keep people I care about safe, so be it. We aren't giving up nearly as many rights as people believe we are. The level of government control some folks fear is right around the corner is never going to happen, not in this country, because we wouldn't stand for it.


So many people misuse the term cognitive dissonance. In the future, I will point them to your post.

"We're giving up too much freedom. I won't stand for it!"

"No no, it's ok because we're only giving up some freedom. We won't ever give up too much freedom because people wouldn't stand for it."
 
I bet it made that 4 year old feel like a motherfucking hero.

The cops in the last 24 hours have been supreme examples of what we'd like to see a Police Force be. Stop giving them shit you constitution nuts.
I don't think anyone is really giving them shit. Just asking questions on a forum for discussion. This is very common in major events like this. People asking what should the balance be between enforcing law and protecting individual rights. Especially when dealing with someone's home.
 
I don't think anyone is really giving them shit. Just asking questions on a forum for discussion. This is very common in major events like there. People asking what should the balance be between enforcing law and protecting individual rights. Especially when dealing with someone's home.

We as American's have our rights and they are clearly spelled out. Would anyone in this thread have refused a swat team entrance in their home given the circumstances?
 
I don't think this kid realizes the gravity of the situation of what's happened. It's almost like he's In denial, like its just a game and everything will go back to normal eventually. Once it hits him, he's going to be a mess.
 
I don't think anyone is really giving them shit. Just asking questions on a forum for discussion. This is very common in major events like this. People asking what should the balance be between enforcing law and protecting individual rights. Especially when dealing with someone's home.

I'm not giving them any shit, I like the police. What I don't like are the reports of police power abuse that are pooping up here and there. Also dont like the police looking like its going to war in tanks.
 
I bet it made that 4 year old feel like a motherfucking hero.

The cops in the last 24 hours have been supreme examples of what we'd like to see a Police Force be. Stop giving them shit you constitution nuts.

Oh please.

We as American's have our rights and they are clearly spelled out. Would anyone in this thread have refused a swat team entrance in their home given the circumstances?

Yes. But, most likely, I wouldn't have been given any choice.
 
I don't think this kid realizes the gravity of the situation of what's happened. It's almost like he's In denial, like its just a game and everything will go back to normal eventually. Once it hits him, he's going to be a mess.

I think it came crashing down when he saw his and his brother's face plastered all over the tv/internet - hence them going on a suicide run. That or when he was hiding in that house bleeding in the dark. Probably set in pretty well at that point.
 
We as American's have our rights and they are clearly spelled out. Would anyone in this thread have refused a swat team entrance in their home given the circumstances?

For the record, if they knocked on my door and asked I would let them no problem. I just think not a lot of knocking was done that's where my problem is
 
We as American's have our rights and they are clearly spelled out. Would anyone in this thread have refused a swat team entrance in their home given the circumstances?
Don't know what I'd do in this situation. Likely tell them to make it very quick and tell them good luck at the end. And in general it will depend on the situation.

Edit: And if they came in anyway, the just make my objections known while they do their thing and deal with it later. But I'd have to be really unsatisfied with the stated reasoning.
 
And why shouldn't steps be taken to protect people on our flights, since, you know, countless people were unwilling participants in a suicide bombing that day. What's a little inconvenience to make sure a loved one gets home alive?
Steps should be (and have been) taken to protect people on flights. But the security theater that you go through in airports today has very little to do with ACTUALLY protecting people.
 
If Publisher's Clearing House knocked on your door with a check in hand, you'd gladly invite them in.

A swat team that's there only with your best interests in mind? OMG CIVIL RIGHTS BEING VIOLATED!

These people are there to save your life. I'm glad I'm not doing their job.
 
So many people misuse the term cognitive dissonance. In the future, I will point them to your post.

"We're giving up too much freedom. I won't stand for it!"

"No no, it's ok because we're only giving up some freedom. We won't ever give up too much freedom because people wouldn't stand for it."

2 questions, answer honestly.

Would you have denied the swat team access to your home today?

In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, would you have protested to having everybody that gets on a plane with you thoroughly searched for weapons or any kind of dangerous substance?
 
My biases? I would not let a SWAT team enter my house under any circumstances whatsoever. But, like I said, I wouldn't have been given a choice. And, yes, that's a fucking problem.

You never know until you try. So when this happens to you politely say no then close the door on them.
 
sunil_tripathi_facebook_photo.jpg.CROP.article568-large.jpg


I'm not saying you should publicly apologize like reddit or other websites, but on this website you were most definitely part of the problem along side many members here, who completely disregarded rational advice not to pursue pure speculative leads and continually refused to stop even amongst better judgement.
I didn't give it too much thought since it was still so up in the air, but I do remember making 2-3 posts here when this Tripathi kid was brought saying I thought he looked like the younger brother in the FBI photos from the marathon...

I feel like such an asshole/idiot. I hope that kid turns up and is returned to the family safely.
 
My biases? I would not let a SWAT team enter my house under any circumstances whatsoever. But, like I said, I wouldn't have been given a choice. And, yes, that's a fucking problem.

So if you were in Watertown MA yesterday you would have pissed and moaned about a warrant?
 
We as American's have our rights and they are clearly spelled out. Would anyone in this thread have refused a swat team entrance in their home given the circumstances?

I might have let them, but not because of the flimsy ass "You do it because you have nothing to hide" bullshit that a fair few people spouted off in here earlier today, but because I feel it would be the right thing to do, but I would probably still feel uneasy about it.
 
If Publisher's Clearing House knocked on your door with a check in hand, you'd gladly invite them in.

A swat team that's there only with your best interests in mind? OMG CIVIL RIGHTS BEING VIOLATED!

These people are there to save your life. I'm glad I'm not doing their job.

You assume the SWAT has your best interests in mind. Also thats one hell of a cherry picked example you posted there.
 
Please tell me there is audio or video footage of the arrest. It's 7am here in UK so I've just woken up and heard the news. All I've seen is one photo of the guy on the ground. Someone MUST have had a camera fixed on this boat, right?
 
You assume the SWAT has your best interests in mind. Also thats one hell of a cherry picked example you posted there.

What other reason would they have? A minor inconvenience is worth more than a person potentially getting access to my/neighbors premises and blowing shit up.

I know my example is extreme, I'm just trying to make a point. If its something that benefits us, we wouldn't think twice. I understand privacy, but you can't have it both ways. It's not like they're knocking door to door because they feel like it.

There's a murderer outside your door. Burying your head in the sand serves no purpose in this situation.
 
I might have let them, but not because of the flimsy ass "You do it because you have nothing to hide" bullshit that a fair few people spouted off in here earlier today, but because I feel it would be the right thing to do, but I would probably still feel uneasy about it.

I think I'd feel more uneasy about the armed and dangerous terrorist that only hours ago threw grenades and shot an MIT cop in cold blood.

A few SWAT guys might make me feel at ease. Especially since I have a 6 year old boy.
 
Please tell me there is audio or video footage of the arrest. It's 7am here in UK so I've just woken up and heard the news. All I've seen is one photo of the guy on the ground. Someone MUST have had a camera fixed on this boat, right?

There was a gunfight when they made contact so everyone was moved way out of the area. No video at all of the actual arrest I don't think.
 
So if you were in Watertown MA yesterday you would have pissed and moaned about a warrant?

I wouldn't as i'm sure the cops where jacked on power and adrenalin. Especially the ones that only shot there guns once a year at police qualifying. I would record them coming to my home and violating my rights then after the fact sue them for it.
 
I might have let them, but not because of the flimsy ass "You do it because you have nothing to hide" bullshit that a fair few people spouted off in here earlier today, but because I feel it would be the right thing to do, but I would probably still feel uneasy about it.

Everybody would feel uneasy about it, but if you would do what you felt was the right thing to do, then you understand the balance between being overly paranoid about your rights, and understanding that sometimes you have to step up and do your part because it might be the right thing to do, and it may help save lives.

You may know your house is terrorist free, but they may not know this, and they don't want another situation where this person is free long enough to go set another bomb to kill and harm more innocent people.
 
I wouldn't as i'm sure the cops where jacked on power and adrenalin. Especially the ones that only shot there guns once a year at police qualifying. I would record them coming to my home and violating my rights then after the fact sue them for it.

You're one of those people eh?

I'm sure the interview you did with Alex Jones would make NATIONAL NEWS you fucking freedom fighter.
 
I bet it made that 4 year old feel like a motherfucking hero.

The cops in the last 24 hours have been supreme examples of what we'd like to see a Police Force be. Stop giving them shit you constitution nuts.

Agreed 100%, well put.

All I could see was a committed police force trying their very best to protect a community from a pair of lunatics, which they did. It's a shame that a section of society will always diminish this with their armchair philosophy.
 
Some of our laws and a decent chunk of the Bill of Rights were written and included certain things for a reason, and I sure as hell am not quite ready to throw them away as easily as some people are.

You mean the same founding documents that didn't account for treating African Americans or women as equals?
 
Air travel is not but privacy is.


And do tell how was the tank handy in tracking down a wounded 18 year old that weighted all of what 100lbs? Also Why are you getting so hostile? All I said was that the reports of power abuse where not true.

Stop calling it a fucking tank. It's an armored personnel carrier. There's no gun on it that'll simultaneously blow up your house and freedoms. It's for protection against small arms and explosives, both of which were used here.
 
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