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[Winterfang]

You kill someone maliciously, you don't deserve the privilege of life.

The victims certainly didn't get to breathe any more.

He attacked our freedom, we take away his freedom. Life in Jail should suffice.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

He attacked our freedom, we take away his freedom. Life in Jail should suffice.

That logic doesn't really work. He also took innocent lives.

Tho life in Guantanamo is fine with me. Or permanent residence in whatever holding cell Boston drunks go to.

 

[sphagnum]

ok, that makes sense. is the red skin from blood pooling?

This is a total guess but I would assume burst capillaries or something from being run over by a car.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Fixed and agreed.

Jail will do quite nicely.

Yep. Depending on the actual motive, killing him would only serve to make him a martyr in the eyes of some, that is if the cause was religiously or politically motivated.

 

[DarkFlow]

Glad they caught the piece of shit. I hope he doesn't get the death penalty but instead gets life and is raped on a daily basis. Then, after 10 years of prison rape, I hope he is told he will get parole in a year. But at the end of that year they tell him that his sentence has been upgraded to death but it won't happen for another 15 years. Then I hope he gets 15 more years of prison rape and in the 15th year they tell him that he will no longer get the death penalty but that his sentence has been extended 25 more years and the first 10 years are in solitary confinement. Then, if he's still alive, I hope he's released from prison and deported to an extremist state that hates his kind. There he will live the rest of his days and die, hopefully raped, tortured and killed by the extremist.

Wtf is wrong with you?

 

[BeerSnob]

Ok, no. After reviewing the picture again that is a big 'ole chunk of flesh missing, I was wrong. Black Hat seems to have had a close encounter with an explosive. Also, maybe a dislocated shoulder, I think. The position is off and weird, like maybe the blast yanked his arm out of socket.

 

[GavinGT]

Does anyone know if there's a complete archive of the Boston scanner during the manhunt? Some of that stuff was so incredible, I'd love to listen back to it. I don't know... set it to some ambient music or something. I hope that doesn't come across as morbid -- I really don't mean it that way. Following the whole thing over the scanner was just an incredible experience that I'd like the chance to hold on to.

I've Googled the term "Boston manhunt scanner archive," but haven't come across anything on the first few pages.

There's over 12 hours of the Dzhokhar search documented here.

 

[ElFly]

2) In DC during the DC Sniper threat, the local government never utilized warrantless search of private residences over an entire neighborhood. Did the government have the legal ability to? Is there any threshold crossed by the Boston events that makes it different from the DC Sniper?

Please explain to me at what point in the search for the sniper they precised that the sniper was living in a determined neighbourhood.

Completely different situation, completely different search procedure.

 

[empty vessel]

The argument is they are wrong.

There is nothing to be wrong or right about. Either you think murdering people in vengeance should be done or you think it shouldn't. I think the people who think it should are primitive.

 

[Maninthemirror]

How is that akin to terrorism again?

Because you treat the person exactly like the fundamentalist muslim fanatics treat their prisoners, extract, obtain , kill.

The greatest gift a free and just nation can give is to show even the worst of its people the best of its justice

 

[GhaleonEB]

There is nothing to be wrong or right about. Either you think murdering people in vengeance should be done or you think it shouldn't. I think the people who think it should are primitive.

What are your thoughts of life imprisonment?

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

I'd go with the theory that he was a freaking 19 yr old kid who just got in WAY over his head and just had a god damn Heat style shootout with the cops, was most likely shot and bleeding, got scared, and tried to get away any way he could. Not every thing in this world is planned out or trained for, especially by some kid who most likely never had "training" of any kind.

I going to have to go with this, people are forgetting that this was just a 19 year old kid, had the federal law and the entire Boston Police on his tail, I honestly think he was too terrified to even kill himself.

He probably didn't even think twice about the course of his actions and how it will all play out... I'm sure he found comfort and trust in his older 26 year old scumbag of a brother to go ahead with this.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

where did the giant hole in his side come from? i can't think of an explanation for that one

Well he was run over and then drug by a moving vehicle. That'll do some serious damage. When you get hit by a car moving fast your parts don't stay inside of you that great.

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

This is a recording of the incident that helped spawn the term. I highly recommend listening to the whole thing if you can stomach it, as it's both haunting and provides a unique insight into human nature.

I can't believe I heard that and read the entire wiki on Jonestown. I am disturbed as never before.

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

Well he was run over and then drug by a moving vehicle. That'll do some serious damage. When you get hit by a car moving fast your parts don't stay inside of you that great.

That must've been some wild shit that moving vehicle gave him.

 

[GavinGT]

I can't believe I heard that and read the entire wiki on Jonestown. I am disturbed as never before.

It's crazy right? And I would have posted a giant warning but the page provides a description and I feel there's ample time to pull out if you don't like where it's headed. Unlike a gory image where you see it and you're instantly disgusted.

Also, note that the organ music is an artifact of past recordings. It wasn't actually playing at the time.

 

[empty vessel]

What are your thoughts of life imprisonment?

Not that differently, to be honest. I think rehabilitation should be the default, and therefore that parole should always be an option. While the death penalty has always been around, it's somewhat strange that life without parole is a very recent phenomenon. A "life" sentence in common law historically was 20 years.

 

[rar]

Well he was run over and then drug by a moving vehicle. That'll do some serious damage. When you get hit by a car moving fast your parts don't stay inside of you that great.

i'm just having a hard time visualizing an explosion or getting run over and dragged by a car causing that kind of injury

i'm no expert though. i've seen a few action movies, that's about it

 

[Escape Goat]

As the greater Boston population sheltered indoors Friday afternoon awaiting the conclusion of the massive manhunt for one of the Boston Marathon blast suspects, at least one business was allowed to keep its doors open to feed the first responders: Dunkin’ Donuts.

"Our franchisees are working closely with authorities to determine which select locations should be open and which restaurants should be closed. For example, at the request of authorities, a Dunkin' Donuts restaurant in Watertown, Massachusetts, is open and the franchisee is voluntarily providing free coffee and other products to law enforcement and first responders,” Karen Raskopf, the chief communications officer for Dunkin’ Brands confirmed in a statement to NBC News. “The safety of our franchisees and their employees is our top concern.”

From its official Facebook page, Dunkin’ said the Watertown location is adjacent to a law enforcement site.

Based in Canton., Mass., the Dunkin' Brands Group, Inc. has deep ties to Boston.

“Literally the most Boston thing I've ever heard. Authorities ask Dunkin Donuts to remain open during lockdown,” the Only in Boston Twitter account observed

Thats pretty nice of them. I'm sure theres a joke about a donut shop next to a police site.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

Not that differently, to be honest. I think rehabilitation should be the default, and therefore that parole should always be an option. While the death penalty has always been around, it's somewhat strange that life without parole is a very recent phenomenon. A "life" sentence in common law historically was 20 years. Even as recently as 20-25 years ago.

The purpose of law isn't to rehabilitate criminals. It's about what's best for society first and foremost. It's purpose has always been to make an example of criminals so society thinks twice about committing crimes. I like to think the US is civilized because it sets what it feels is the bare minimum of punishment needed to get the point across to those capable of getting it. Getting the message across to the criminal so he doesn't commit the crime again is all well and good but you can't risk that shit with guys who commit crimes on this level, you have to look at why law exists in the first place for these cases.

 

[LyleLanley]

I don't think I've seen this posted in here yet so here's footage from the helicopter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_ztMtty9fY&feature=youtu.be

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

It's crazy right? And I would have posted a giant warning but the page provides a description and I feel there's ample time to pull out if you don't like where it's headed. Unlike a gory image where you see it and you're instantly disgusted.

Also, note that the organ music is an artifact of past recordings. It wasn't actually playing at the time.

To be honest with you, gore doesn't disturbs me at all, but this story, the details, the recording. This shit is on a whole different level. It shows you how fucked up humans can be. Sheep mentality is a helluva dangerous thing.

By the way, there's two documentaries about this theme (at least that's what wiki says) Has anyone seem them? Sorry about the off-topic.

 

[Sajjaja]

Found this in my Facebook feed, not sure if posted, but more conspiracy stuff:

 

[empty vessel]

The purpose of law isn't to rehabilitate criminals. It's about what's best for society first and foremost. It's purpose has always been to make an example of criminals so society thinks twice about committing crimes. I like to think the US is civilized because it sets what it feels is the bare minimum of punishment needed to get the point across to those capable of getting it. Getting the message across to the criminal so he doesn't commit the crime again is all well and good but you can't risk that shit with guys who commit crimes on this level, you have to look at why law exists in the first place for these cases.

Spoiler

Imo

The purpose of law is whatever we use it for. I don't think the US is remotely civilized and I think you are factually incorrect that the US sets a "bare minimum" of punishment. It is the most punitive industrialized country on the planet. It incarcerates more people, for longer periods of time, than any other country. Including China, mind you. And that's not even per capita. I don't see any more justification for exacting vengeance through murder in this case than any other.

 

[ElFly]

Have to agree that adding the charge of running over his brother to all the murders is hilarious.

 

[GavinGT]

To be honest with you, gore doesn't disturbs me at all, but this story, the details, the recording. This shit is on a whole different level. It shows you how fucked up humans can be. Sheep mentality is a helluva dangerous thing.

By the way, there's two documentaries about this theme (at least that's what wiki says) Has anyone seem them? Sorry about the off-topic.

Yeah, I think it's important so that we can avoid repeating the mistakes of our past.

I watched all the documentaries. Nothing revelatory, but worth it for background details.

And if your psyche hasn't been totally wounded at this point, look into the Waco incident next.

 

[Dr. Malik]

I don't think I've seen this posted in here yet so here's footage from the helicopter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_ztMtty9fY&feature=youtu.be

What is it that they are blasting at the boat?

 

[KtSlime]

The purpose of law isn't to rehabilitate criminals. It's about what's best for society first and foremost. It's purpose has always been to make an example of criminals so society thinks twice about committing crimes. I like to think the US is civilized because it sets what it feels is the bare minimum of punishment needed to get the point across to those capable of getting it. Getting the message across to the criminal so he doesn't commit the crime again is all well and good but you can't risk that shit with guys who commit crimes on this level, you have to look at why law exists in the first place for these cases.

*frowny face*

I don't think revenge is something society needs, let alone what's best for it. Rehabilitation is obviously best, and in cases that can't for some reason happen, incarceration until it becomes possible.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

The purpose of law is whatever we use it for. I don't think the US is remotely civilized and I think you are factually incorrect that the US sets a "bare minimum" of punishment. It is the most punitive industrialized country on the planet. It incarcerates more people, for longer periods of time, than any other country. Including China, mind you. And that's not even per capita. I don't see any more justification for exacting vengeance through murder in this case than any other.

I know we aren't perfect, I'm speaking in ideals and how things should be / the original philosophy behind law. It's not about vengeance, you can't begin to allow other crazies to think they can get away with shit like this. We're talking about some1 who planned on murdering completely innocent people. Life in Guantanamo is what this asshole deserves. As others have explained, I'm not really for making him some kind of martyr. Some crazies have no problem with becoming a martyr, much less would be willing to go to Guantanamo.

*frowny face*

I don't think revenge is something society needs, let alone what's best for it. Rehabilitation is obviously best, and in cases that can't for some reason happen, incarceration until it becomes possible.

My message has nothing to do with revenge.

 

[J-Rzez]

He attacked our freedom, we take away his freedom. Life in Jail should suffice.

He killed and maimed innocent civilians first off, and secondly, he killed an officer of the law, that alone is grounds for execution attacking a peace keeper (let alone the innocents whose lives are ruined or expired). It's easy to sit on your high and mighty throne and say what you are, but once again, you're not giving the people expected retribution, and showing how soft you are to your enemies.

Because you treat the person exactly like the fundamentalist muslim fanatics treat their prisoners, extract, obtain , kill.

The greatest gift a free and just nation can give is to show even the worst of its people the best of its justice

Not even close. Yes, show them justice, and it should be contained in said justice to give equal retribution in a case like this where someone attempts to destroy society with no disregard for it's citizens.

And there is no possible way you can compare this justice to that of a terrorist group (not a government).

The purpose of law is whatever we use it for. I don't think the US is remotely civilized and I think you are factually incorrect that the US sets a "bare minimum" of punishment. It is the most punitive industrialized country on the planet. It incarcerates more people, for longer periods of time, than any other country. Including China, mind you. And that's not even per capita. I don't see any more justification for exacting vengeance through murder in this case than any other.

Do you live in the States? Just wondering because you seem to dislike much about the country. Not just from posts on this subject.

 

[GavinGT]

What is it that they are blasting at the boat?

Flashbangs most likely. I would think teargas in a confined space would be too risky.

Good thing they didn't accidentally use incendiary grenades like at Waco.

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

Yeah, I think it's important so that we can avoid repeating the mistakes of our past.

I watched all the documentaries. Nothing revelatory, but worth it for background details.

And if your psyche hasn't been totally wounded at this point, look into the Waco incident next.

I'll look for both the documentaries and that Waco incident.

 

[LyleLanley]

What is it that they are blasting at the boat?

I believe those are flashbangs.

 

[Byakuya769]

We gotta kill this guy, cause it will make us feel good!

 

[davepoobond]

Do you live in the States? Just wondering because you seem to dislike much about the country. Not just from posts on this subject.

it sounds like he doesn't understand the point of the justice system.


also, the fact that the younger brother killed his older brother is almost ironic, and really weird at the same time.

 

[dejay]

I believe those are flashbangs.

Yeah, they I heard a fair bit about flashbangs on the front of the boat over the scanner at the time.

 

[Blader]

The purpose of law is whatever we use it for. I don't think the US is remotely civilized and I think you are factually incorrect that the US sets a "bare minimum" of punishment. It is the most punitive industrialized country on the planet. It incarcerates more people, for longer periods of time, than any other country. Including China, mind you. And that's not even per capita. I don't see any more justification for exacting vengeance through murder in this case than any other.

Well it's no Venezuela.

 

[Byakuya769]

it sounds like he doesn't understand the point of the justice system.

I've been following empty vessel for a while now, and I'm convinced he knows absolutely nothing about how the American justice system really works. He has no clue or experience in it, clearly. I mean, just look at his post and all the information about it he has at his disposal.

 

[GavinGT]

I've been following emptyvessel for a while, and I'm convinced he knows absolutely nothing about how the American justice system really works. He has no clue or experience in it, clearly. I mean, just look at his post and all the information about it he has at his disposal.

At the very least he's no empty vessel, if we're using the Socratic meaning.

 

[Half and half]

I don't think this kid should ever get out.

But in general, our European friends get better results out of their justice systems by treating prisoners with dignity.

 

[FyreWulff]

He killed and maimed innocent civilians first off, and secondly, he killed an officer of the law, that alone is grounds for execution attacking a peace keeper (let alone the innocents whose lives are ruined or expired). It's easy to sit on your high and mighty throne and say what you are, but once again, you're not giving the people expected retribution, and showing how soft you are to your enemies.

Our system isn't about retribution. Basing it around that would make us revert to the fuedal days and we'd be no better than gangbangers doing hits on someone for crossing them.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Found this in my Facebook feed, not sure if posted, but more conspiracy stuff:

Applying Occam's Razor I would say they were part of the security team. Seems pretty fucking idiotic for the government to fake a bombing by using agents so easily made/identified by their attire.

 

[Glorified G]

Glad they caught the piece of shit. I hope he doesn't get the death penalty but instead gets life and is raped on a daily basis. Then, after 10 years of prison rape, I hope he is told he will get parole in a year. But at the end of that year they tell him that his sentence has been upgraded to death but it won't happen for another 15 years. Then I hope he gets 15 more years of prison rape and in the 15th year they tell him that he will no longer get the death penalty but that his sentence has been extended 25 more years and the first 10 years are in solitary confinement. Then, if he's still alive, I hope he's released from prison and deported to an extremist state that hates his kind. There he will live the rest of his days and die, hopefully raped, tortured and killed by the extremist.

I bet you had a boner while typing that

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Found this in my Facebook feed, not sure if posted, but more conspiracy stuff:

Somehow I doubt the FBI would be stupid enough to miss something like this. Silly conspiracy theory. Weren't the two suspects in question caught with all kinds of bombs and even the very same kind of pressure cooker style bomb device? Why, if they were truly innocent, would they go on the crazy rampage that they did, instead of turning themselves in and explaining their innocence?

Also, to those seeming to imply it, I don't think there's any redemption possible for this murderer. The innocent people he hurt, the people he helped kill, including that 8 year old child, there's simply nothing he could ever do with the rest of his life to somehow right so many wrongs. He isn't deserving of forgiveness, he isn't deserving of any pity from anybody. Just consider for a moment that they were likely planning to do this again to even more people. I'm happy that we have a chance to make him pay for what he did.

 

[ElFly]

There's over 12 hours of the Dzhokhar search documented here.

10 hours of watch yo mike.

 

[Evlar]

Retribution is a fucking awful goal as a sentencing guideline. If someone runs over a kid with his car we don't run HIM over, or run his kid over. If a surgeon botches a surgery we don't remove HIS limb. The examples are never ending.

And, if we're not talking some dipshit eye-for-eye retributive system and just want to express massive unscalable incomprehensible domination over someone who has committed a crime, know what you should do? Put them in prison. It's the most stark, visceral tool we have for demonstrating the power the nation can have over an individual. Yes, including killing them. Any fool with a pressure cooker and ball bearings can kill people. It takes real might to put them in a fancy cage and keep them there for many decades.

It's honestly a little disturbing that people have become so desensitized to the concept of long term imprisonment that they don't even consider it punishment anymore.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

DIS IS OUR FACKIN SEEDY

 

[Plywood]

Just saw an interview with a private citizen who witnessed the shootout. Completely confirmed the previous story from Watertown's Police Chief that White Hat Guy ran his brother down and killed him.

Said Black Hat Guy was out of bullets, Police tackled him, and were in the process of handcuffing him, very much alive, when the SUV came "out of nowhere" at high speed, aimed right for the cops. The witness said he alerted the cops to the danger, and they fled, but White Hat Guy continued on at the same speed, and plowed right into his brother, killing him, dragging his body down the road about 30-40 feet.

Fucking hell.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

The purpose of law isn't to rehabilitate criminals. It's about what's best for society first and foremost. It's purpose has always been to make an example of criminals so society thinks twice about committing crimes.

Except that doesn't work. At. All. Period. I'm SO glad we've gotten out of the 15th century mentality here.

And what's best for society is, funnily enough, to rehabilitate criminals so they can be productive members of society. Locking someone up for 20 years and then throwing them to the general populace and expecting them to be 'cured' is not only optimistic, but foolish as well. These people end up completely fucked in more than one way, unable to reintegrate with society, and go on to become repeat offenders.

Our 'justice' system is nothing more than a revenge circuit.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Found this in my Facebook feed, not sure if posted, but more conspiracy stuff:

The picture with the guy holding his bag down and their fingers to their ears, I'm pretty sure was taken after the blast. YES his back looks like the blow up bag, it even has the same white tag on what seems to be the top strap part. Tameran's pack could be the same. The blown up bag's straps don't look like the PMC's bag. The PMC's bag is definitely black, the blown up bag is charcoal, which could match Tameran's.

I never knew where the picture of the shredded backpack came from. Was it ever said by authorities to be the bag that contained the bomb, and which one (blast 1 or blast 2)?

Sure, the narrative that a PMC would setup a terrorist attack to get more work is probably no longer a thing of fiction these days, but there is far more evidence about the two brothers being the bombers than the other way around (pictures of Jahar at the location of the explosion, him running away without a backpack, etc.).

What bothers me more is that a company would have a skull and such a disgusting motto and still get contracts from states and municipalities, and that actual local federal law enforcement and security agencies are apparently not enough to get the job done that you have to hire private contractors, which raises all sorts of ethical issues. To me that's more troubling. The fact that this PMC (I'll call it that regardless of what name they like to use) had radiation counters implies that government agencies who were there for security purposes did not have those themselves, which indicates that there is a huge security problem to begin with.