Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]

famousmortimer said:
Some of it may be bullshit, some of it may not. But the "no one said a word about it before" part kinda comes with having inside info.

I've been privy to things and when I feel like I can share things and put enough warnings around it like "I've heard from friends in the industry that ______" I add that to a thread.

I heard the League of Legends is a MS exclusive rumor from a friend at a competitor several days ago. There isn't a chance in hell I'm going to make a thread titled "RUMOR: LoL to be MS Exclusive!" because it then puts my entire gaf account on the laurels of a rumor... and I kinda like it around here and would rather not get banned. But since this thread was loosening lips I decided to kick in the info I had. And hell, I have more, but the thing is... when you have friends who work in the industry you can't just go making posts on GAF about everything because it's really not hard for people to trace who I know where and if I ever cost any of my friends jobs I would feel absolutely fucking horrible.

I have no idea if this is what Thuway and others are going through the same sort of situations but I would bet they are. And some of them may be lying. Or maybe what they are saying is true now but won't be true in a few months. For instance, there was a time when Sony was looking into always online and no used games... and if I made a post about that then I would have been telling the truth... but when the PS4 event happened I would then be a liar... even though I was telling the truth.


tl;dr Yeah maybe, maybe not.
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Pretty much this. I'm sure there are LOTS of people who are keeping their mouths shut to make sure nothing gets traced back to their friends.

Godspeed to the ones revealing things.


Karma said:
Do any of these insiders have any evidence at all? Anything? Do we just take them at their word. It has no more credibility than a random pastebin post.
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If they posted their "evidence," they or their friends may get traced, fired, and prosecuted. If you're really so desperate for 100% confirmation, just wait for the reveal. It's only three weeks away now.
 
famousmortimer said:
For instance, there was a time when Sony was looking into always online and no used games... and if I made a post about that then I would have been telling the truth... but when the PS4 event happened I would then be a liar... even though I was telling the truth.
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*shrug* Who would think your lying, seriously just show them some patents. Looking into is one thing, but most stuff "looked into" doesn't get the go ahead.

It'd be nice if Microsoft would just say... Requires always online or not. >.>
 
grimshawish said:
In case anyone is still doubtful, I can now confirm this information:
7tuKsY.png
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Oh, so that's what happened to Perry Kaplan
 
Iced_Eagle said:
This seems fishy to me...

What sort of person would have information on the status of the complete portfolios of both MS and Sony? No third-party devs or publishers are privy to this information, they are only aware of the games they are working on, and just given knowledge of how to work on the platforms. Only the higher-ups at MS or Sony would know whether their portfolios are ahead/behind, and unless these higher-ups between MS and Sony are sharing notes, which is unlikely, I'm not so sure this could be trusted.

Plus, who the hell cares as long as there is a great launch, and post-launch portfolio? Maybe they wanted 30 games for the launch and can now only get 20. Or maybe some of the games they are working on just weren't fun.

There's just so many variables here, that it's not worth getting up in arms about until after E3 when we know exactly what the launches are going to look like.
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Yea this rumor sounds bs...but I am looking for ms to really step there game up with defining xbox with there own software development instead of money hatting..Xbox was simple the preferred platform this gen..but with that seeming to be gone now they really have to sell me to buy a ps4 and a 720...cool os is a plus but I really want the dedication to gamers to be present day one
 
thuway said:
There was a time that every developer I talked to was so sure about 4 GB GDDR5, that any suggestion otherwise was lol'd at. Leadbetter even wrote it off an email exchange. See how that turned out for us "insider"'s?
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Yep. 95% of the people that work at sony were just as shocked as the rest of us were when they announced 8gbs. That's how last minute that change was. A friend, working on a first party game, didn't know it.
 
Gestault said:
I find it odd that someone would have the access to be able to make that informed claim (knowing both that Microsoft is behind while Sony is where they want to be, and how those two internal goals compare), specifically regarding the internal, first-party goings-on at both companies.

Anyone have a reasonable explanation of how that could be so?
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Retailers proably have a pretty good idea of what games are coming out in the fall.
 
IdeaMan said:
I have this info from the same group of sources that all the leaks i've revealed last year on the Wii U, 90% of them being on the spot, on very specific things, like the detailed breakdown of the memory (1GB usable for games, 1GB of OS at the time where nobody believed me) a whole semester before it was confirmed, and listed on two huge post-E3 2012 and post-wii u nintendo direct assessments.

Now, perhaps what my sources are experimenting isn't widespread and it's different for other developers, but i doubt it. Nota bene: i haven't said the PS4 was in a bad shape, just that they aren't as ready and the process isn't as smooth as the recent info could make us believe. In other words: MS is very late, Sony is better, but not right here.

I have for example a very thorough description on the framerate situation of multiport next-gen projects on both systems, and it's very revealing on the (bad) state of the dev kits, for now as it will undoubtedly improve. That, or the studio is incompetent, but it's not the case.
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SCUAq.gif
 
TAS said:
Obviously there is truth to this. If MS had a choice, do you honestly think they would have allowed the PS4 unveiling to come and go unchallenged? Dubious to say the least.
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It'll be amazing if MS falls to the same kind of hubris that crippled the ps3 for years. At least MS will have all the third party support to cover any droughts on their end, unlike Nintendo.
 
IdeaMan said:
I have this info from the same group of sources that all the leaks i've revealed last year on the Wii U, 90% of them being on the spot, on very specific things, like the detailed breakdown of the memory (1GB usable for games, 1GB of OS at the time where nobody believed me) a whole semester before it was confirmed, and listed on two huge post-E3 2012 and post-wii u nintendo direct assessments.

Now, perhaps what my sources are experimenting isn't widespread and it's different for other developers, but i doubt it. Nota bene: i haven't said the PS4 was in a bad shape, just that they aren't as ready and the process isn't as smooth as the recent info could make us believe. In other words: MS is very late, Sony is better, but not right here.

I have for example a very thorough description on the framerate situation of multiport next-gen projects on both systems, and it's very revealing on the (bad) state of the dev kits, for now as it will undoubtedly improve. That, or the studio is incompetent, but it's not the case.
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Oh....I thought the discussion was about hardware problems not software. Your last paragraph sounds like what I believe is the normal development cycle where frame rate/everything is optimised/polished when devs receive final dev kits (said to be summer)

The big question is whether Microsoft are having hardware/heat problems with the dev kits and are Sony too?
 
Sounds reasonable given Microsoft's recent push to create internal studios and create new IPs.

Black Tusk's new IP just started development (I think), 343's only been on Halo 5 for a few months, who knows what Rare does anymore, and the same can be said for their other studios.

I'm expecting Call of Duty and other third party games to carry the 720 until Holiday 2014 in which case we can expect a nice push of new games/sequels from Microsoft themselves.
 
Karma said:
Do any of these insiders have any evidence at all? Anything? Do we just take them at their word. It has no more credibility than a random pastebin post. What has thuway known before?
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I know my little piece in this is small, but the only evidence that anyone can ever has is being right. Which is why I think the mods tread a very fine line in waiting to see if something pans out or not. There was probably a time when I posted stuff that had them wondering if I was full of shit and should be banned. The first "inside info" i ever posted here was the PSO 2 was coming to the Vita. I'm pretty sure my account rode on that info. It got announced, I was relieved, and I'm still here. And have since posted many more things that have turned out to be true (and one that that didn't.... unfortunately). So the proof is a person's track record.


Thuway has a good track record thus far. You can not believe him if you want, that's totally understandable, but thus far he hasn't given anyone a reason to think he is bullshitting.
 
Karma said:
Do any of these insiders have any evidence at all? Anything? Do we just take them at their word. It has no more credibility than a random pastebin post. What has thuway known before?
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A decent track record with specific information in somewhat "reliable" cases like thuway and crazy buttocks. No one is saying to believe every single rumor out there. I hope you can understand when semi-reliable "insiders" come out and confirm certain rumors almost uniformly, it puts more weight on that specific rumor no?
 
Domino Theory said:
I'm expecting Call of Duty and other third party games to carry the 720 until Holiday 2014 in which case we can expect a nice push of new games/sequels from Microsoft themselves.
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If that's true I have a feeling sales are going to be poor. Between what looks like a strong PS4 launch, the continued viability of PS360 and I assume a Nintendo aiming for the holidays with its heavy hitters..that's a lot of competition.
 
Takuya said:
Trying to do too much, additional components for handling the HDMI-in feed / video overlays, Kinect hardware internal, trying to push their hardware at higher clocks to match Sony's. Lots of reasons.
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Isn't the hardware of the two machines basically identical aside from the beefier APU in the PS4, though? I dunno, I'm not keeping up with every single hardware rumour but I thought they both had an APU, 8GB RAM, a second ARM APU, etc.

Maybe they're going for a smaller box than Sony and are pressed for space with the cooling system? Or the EDRAM really does that much to its heat output?

Seems like it would be a serious engineering cock-up to make a decision (with EDRAM) that leaves you lagging the competition in hardware performance and running hotter.
 
Domino Theory said:
Black Tusk's new IP just started development (I think), 343's only been on Halo 5 for a few months, who knows what Rare does anymore.
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They can be seen most nights riding around the North Leicester countryside with torches and hounds, searching for relevancy and any dropped pocket change ;)
 
I think this rumor is BS. Microsoft have been hiring for over 3 years in next-gen development. I think they will have some kick ass games for sure. Turn 10 has been silent since Forza 4, Epic with Gears, Black Tusk, Lionhead, Rare... + the 3rd party exclusives... yeah i think they will have a great launch.

I also think Sony will have a great launch with what Cerny recently said...
 
avaya said:
Hardware running too hot means...

1. They have more in there than we know
2. Bumped the clocks up
3. Gone for cheap cooling
4. Maybe it's a small chassis.

Can't believe a 1.2TF GPU + 8 Jaguar's is going to be tough to cool...
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If the 1.2 TF low end GPU is true, it can only be a combination of point 3 and 4.
 
schuelma said:
If that's true I have a feeling sales are going to be poor. Between what looks like a strong PS4 launch, the continued viability of PS360 and I assume a Nintendo aiming for the holidays with its heavy hitters..that's a lot of competition.
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Well, given that The Verge leaks out Microsoft's entire product line-up, we already know a fair share of their first party launch line-up: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=538344
 
Wow, it really does sound like MS is going to be struggling with this launch. How are they having trouble keeping such a low powered system from overheating? And in a kit that doesn't even have to have the final dimensions.
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
Oh....I thought the discussion was about hardware problems not software. Your last paragraph sounds like what I believe is the normal development cycle where frame rate/everything is optimised/polished when devs receive final dev kits (said to be summer)

The big question is whether Microsoft are having hardware/heat problems with the dev kits and are Sony too?
Click to expand...

Don't know if these issues and this general impression of the two being rather late to very late for a November launch are originating from a clear and noted hardware problem, and/or far from being optimized SDK's, middleware, and/or a non-adaptation as of date of my sources to these new systems (i doubt it).

I was just passing by confirming the late part and saying that the Sony's portrayal isn't as rosy as a lot of folks are believing either.
 
godelsmetric said:
Isn't the hardware of the two machines basically identical aside from the beefier APU in the PS4, though? I dunno, I'm not keeping up with every single hardware rumour but I thought they both had an APU, 8GB RAM, a second ARM APU, etc.

Maybe they're going for a smaller box than Sony and are pressed for space with the cooling system? Or the EDRAM really does that much to its heat output?

Seems like it would be a serious engineering cock-up to make a decision (with EDRAM) that leaves you lagging the competition in hardware performance and running hotter.
Click to expand...
The PS4s GDDR5 is far more power hungry than DDR3.
 
IdeaMan said:
I have this info from the same group of sources that all the leaks i've revealed last year on the Wii U, 90% of them being on the spot, on very specific things, like the detailed breakdown of the memory (1GB usable for games, 1GB of OS at the time where nobody believed me) a whole semester before it was confirmed, and listed on two huge post-E3 2012 and post-wii u nintendo direct assessments.
Click to expand...
Weren't you the guy who deliberately made all of your rumors sound as ambiguous as possible so you could take credit for information you didn't actually have?
 
I liked it better when Kotaku was banned around these parts....

Idiots just keep making threads on their sensationalist page hit headline grabbers.
 
JaggedSac said:
Wow, it really does sound like MS is going to be struggling with this launch. How are they having trouble keeping such a low powered system from overheating? And in a kit that doesn't even have to have the final dimensions.
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The struggle could be to keep it from overheating in what they intend to be their final design for the console.
 
I can see one game behind by 6 months but not pretty much every first party game. That just seems absurd. Also Microsoft going for third party exclusives is nothing new or unexpected and I don't think they're just suddenly trying to land launch exclusives but ones for the next couple years post launch.
 
I don't know anything, but if were to guess I'd say that I think there is some form of truth to this rumor (devs are probably having a hard time with dev kits), but a lot of it seems a bit outdated, sensationalized, or misunderstood. It's probably not the end of the world at MS and I'm sure they'll do ok. Also, I'm guessing that the reason Sony didn't show us an actual console is because they weren't quite ready to, and MS wouldn't push things back just one month if all hell was breaking loose. I wouldn't take these too seriously; things aren't always roses when it comes to handling huge projects.
 
How does all of the big 3 become late at launch? You think they would of been more ready for this gen, especially Nintendo and Microsoft.
 
Karma said:
Do any of these insiders have any evidence at all? Anything? Do we just take them at their word. It has no more credibility than a random pastebin post. What has thuway known before?
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Buttocks leaked the xbox 360 specs in February 2005 (before anyone I'm pretty sure), along with several things in the interim.
 
IdeaMan said:
Don't know if these issues and this general impression of the two being rather late to very late for a November launch are originating from a clear and noted hardware problem, and/or far from being optimized SDK's, middleware, and/or a non-adaptation as of date of my sources to these new systems (i doubt it).

I was just passing by confirming the late part and saying that the Sony's portrayal isn't as rosy as a lot of folks are believing either.
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To ask a less specific question of hardware/software; and to all other insiders who have a view feel free to answer too; but how are people reacting to all this? Is it having effects on where resources were being committed, are there big anxieties about the launches?

I mean is this a difficulty they've faced before; or are there serious concerns rising?
 
so i guess those rumors from a while back were correct to some extent. the rumor was that one console will launch in the fall and the other was a quarter or two behind and would launch early 2014. everyone assumed it was Sony that was behind and MS who was ahead, but I guess it was the other way around.

MS is still launching 2013, so at least the console will be in the public's hands by end of year.
 
grimshawish said:
ahem...no.

Speed-Edit: Rare are likely all behind Kinect stuff, testing and some OS designs. I'd venture that as a guess anyway.
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people often forget Frontier when it comes to Kinect even though they have a hand in most of that peripherals output.

IdeaMan said:
Don't know if these issues and this general impression of the two being rather late to very late for a November launch are originating from a clear and noted hardware problem, and/or far from being optimized SDK's, middleware, and/or a non-adaptation as of date of my sources to these new systems (i doubt it).

I was just passing by confirming the late part and saying that the Sony's portrayal isn't as rosy as a lot of folks are believing either.
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Just sounds like youre trying to shit on a parade because the positivity irks you. Low framerate in early development for a new console is like... how its always been.
 
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