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[something fishy]

I press the windows button to see the screen, I select the program I want to run.

In some ways it's a greater effort to click start, program's, program sub folder, select program.

I found once I got used to it it was absolutely fine,

 

[itsgreen]

simply because most people don't like waving their arms around to do stuff that can be done with button presses quicker.

Exactly that's why all keyboard since 1995 have a Windows button

(my workflow to start for instance calculator is: [press keyboard Windows button] > type "calc" > [press enter button])

 

[Angelus Errare]

simply because most people don't like waving their arms around to do stuff that can be done with button presses quicker.

But pushing buttons while faster isn't as COOL. You ever see Minority Report? Thats how we look when we use Kinect. Ever see The Wizard in retrospective? That's how you look pressing buttons!

Kinect is the future! It's got so much immersion and so much....immersion! Fable Journey, I actually felt like I was brushing my horse! Like literally! It was totally tits. I can never go back to "press A to do Y!"

lulz

 

[MasLegio]

Wndows 7 uses much of this travesty and its great,

It really is just a better performing win 7 with the start bar moved, I cannot see the drama at all.

the drama is that metro is shite and is forced onto desktop owners, they almost are actively forcing people to use metro instead of desktop with hiding desktop mode and gimping it

forced single screen apps is the worst shit of it all

major productivity destroyer

 

[something fishy]

Must admit I don't mind the tile views and their active feeds but I do tend to end up in the desktop as normal a lot. Old habits die hard.

 

[SPDIF]

Kinect certainly has potential for Metro apps. This is using Kinect 1.

I'd imagine Kinect 2 would be even more responsive.

 

[QaaQer]

I press the windows button to see the screen, I select the program I want to run.

In some ways it's a greater effort to click start, program's, program sub folder, select program.

I found once I got used to it it was absolutely fine,

talking about navigation on your tv via kinect.

 

[QaaQer]

the drama is that metro is shite and is forced onto desktop owners, they almost are actively forcing people to use metro instead of desktop with hiding desktop mode and gimping it

forced single screen apps is the worst shit of it all

major productivity destroyer

pretty much a deal breaker for me. but I guess I'll have to switch when I cannot get win7 versions of stuff I need.

 

[SPDIF]

pretty much a deal breaker for me. but I guess I'll have to switch when I cannot get win7 versions of stuff I need.

Well nobody is forcing you to use those full screen apps. I know by default any image opens up in the fullscreen app, but it's not exactly hard to change it.

 

[something fishy]

talking about navigation on your tv via kinect.

I realised afterwards I'd managed to have a reading failure. Doh.

 

[Uno Venova]

the drama is that metro is shite and is forced onto desktop owners, they almost are actively forcing people to use metro instead of desktop with hiding desktop mode and gimping it

forced single screen apps is the worst shit of it all

major productivity destroyer

Yeah it's terrible, had to downgrade to 7 once a new computer came in, no one in the house wanted anything to do with it.

 

[Tomcat]

the drama is that metro is shite and is forced onto desktop owners, they almost are actively forcing people to use metro instead of desktop with hiding desktop mode and gimping it

forced single screen apps is the worst shit of it all

major productivity destroyer

its not forcing anything
just dont use any metro apps and stay at the desktop
and even if that is annoying to you there are many apps to remove metro

 

[WolfForager]

Just came in to have a gander at this thread and after reading all the Windows 8 hate thought that's I'd post this.

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

Basically adds the start button back to W8.

You're welcome

(Sorry for the off topicness)

 

[Impeccable]

Sixteen days, shit, I'm starting to feel the hype take over my bones now.

 

[QaaQer]

Sixteen days, shit, I'm starting to feel the hype take over my bones now.

Me too. But damn if I don't keep having flashbacks to Nintendo's 2011 E3, wot a let down.

 

[statham]

Just came in to have a gander at this thread and after reading all the Windows 8 hate thought that's I'd post this.

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

Basically adds the start button back to W8.

You're welcome

(Sorry for the off topicness)

I tempted to get this, but its also rumored to be added back in.

 

[JaggedSac]

I think live tiles would work out pretty nicely for the new box. Both for games and 3rd party apps. The share hook from W8 would be nice as well. Third party apps implement the hook, from any game the player can share a picture or video through any app that implemented it. The app could then be built for editing it, adding a soundtrack, perhaps a small feed from Kinect could be added to it for commentary. All while the game is tombstoned in the background. Once you open these things to third parties, the possibilities are endless.

 

[Baconsammy]

I tempted to get this, but its also rumored to be added back in.

I don't think it's a rumor anymore. I think it's a sure-thing that it's in 8.1.

 

[Doffen]

I don't think it's a rumor anymore. I think it's a sure-thing that it's in 8.1.

But now my computer will look like old people's computers. This is why we are still stuck in the 90's.

 

[Hip Hop]

I don't want the Start button back on my desktop. Love Metro, and hope that button is optional. After being adjusted to the gesture thing, it is definitely faster than Win 7 at all levels.

 

[Baconsammy]

But now my computer will look like old people's computers. This is why we are still stuck in the 90's.

Hopefully it will be optional. I don't want that archaic shit near my computer.

I don't want the Start button back on my desktop. Love Metro, and hope that button is optional. After being adjusted to the gesture thing, it is definitely faster than Win 7 at all levels.

Yep.

 

[Bleedorang3]

Hopefully it will be optional. I don't want that archaic shit near my computer.

Yup, every Win8 computer already has a start button. Its either on your KB or a physical button on Tablets. No reason to add it back on the Desktop. I guess it should appease some of the more vocal detractors though.

 

[statham]

YA! who wants a start button down? down with the start button!

 

[Uno Venova]

Yup, every Win8 computer already has a start button. Its either on your KB or a physical button on Tablets. No reason to add it back on the Desktop. I guess it should appease some of the more vocal detractors though.

The start button doesn't lead to an actual menu though right? Just back to the start screen, I doubt it will please anyone.

 

[enzo_gt]

The start button doesn't lead to an actual menu though right? Just back to the start screen, I doubt it will please anyone.

Which is especially odd because using the metro interface as your start is pretty inarguably more efficient at doing what the archaic start menu does.

It will be a slow process, people are still adjusting and hate change. In a few years maybe the consensus will reach that where people realize the metro start is a better solution

 

[0xCA2]

So yeah, since this will have Windows 8 Apps, I wonder how well it will work as an actual PC. Theoretically, FF and Chrome could just be apps on it, right? What's to stop them from putting MS Office on it? If they do this whole subsidized deal, this will be the most powerful PC that many people could get for that price. I'd love to use it as PC w/ keyboard and mouse.

Speaking of Apps, just looking at the Win8 store right now, there's a ton of games already up there. A bunch of free games. I also see some emulators. Just looking at these apps, if MS allows all of this kind of stuff on the 720 ( a variety of apps with different functions), that'd be really cool and a possibly a #gamechanger.

*Hype*

 

[SPDIF]

So yeah, since this will have Windows 8 Apps, I wonder how well it will work as an actual PC. Theoretically, FF and Chrome could just be apps on it, right? What's to stop them from putting MS Office on it? If they do this whole subsidized deal, this will be the most powerful PC that many people could get for that price. I'd love to use it as PC w/ keyboard and mouse.

Speaking of Apps, just looking at the Win8 store right now, there's a ton of games already up there. A bunch of free games. I also see some emulators. Just looking at these apps, if MS allows all of this kind of stuff on the 720, that'd be really cool and a possibly a huge advantage.

*Hype*

They could be, but it would just be a Firefox or Chrome skin wrapped around the IE rendering engine. Similar to iOS, browsers can't use their own rendering engines in Windows 8 apps.

Not to mention that at the moment at least, the IE rendering engine that's available to devs isn't the full version, which means JavaScript isn't fully supported. So I doubt Google or Mozilla would want to put limited versions of their browsers on the store. Some of the WinRT APIs are still very "immature" at this moment in time.

Hopefully Windows 8 Blue fixes most of these issues, since there's definately potential there.

 

[0xCA2]

oh

but what about the other stuff??!!

 

[SPDIF]

oh

but what about the other stuff??!!

Well in theory yes, anything that's able to run on Windows 8 at the moment, should be easily portable to Durango, since it'd be using VERY similar APIs.

I don't think the full version of Office is possible in Metro just yet. Although judging from the OneNote Metro app, I suppose they could do more limited versions.

 

[Baconsammy]

So yeah, since this will have Windows 8 Apps, I wonder how well it will work as an actual PC. Theoretically, FF and Chrome could just be apps on it, right? What's to stop them from putting MS Office on it? If they do this whole subsidized deal, this will be the most powerful PC that many people could get for that price. I'd love to use it as PC w/ keyboard and mouse.

Speaking of Apps, just looking at the Win8 store right now, there's a ton of games already up there. A bunch of free games. I also see some emulators. Just looking at these apps, if MS allows all of this kind of stuff on the 720 ( a variety of apps with different functions), that'd be really cool and a possibly a #gamechanger.

*Hype*

Much of it already has Achievements too (I believe each game that's marked with the Xbox logo has 200 achievements). Huge advantage for them if the Xbox app store and the Win 8 store are one in the same.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

They could be, but it would just be a Firefox or Chrome skin wrapped around the IE rendering engine. Similar to iOS, browsers can't use their own rendering engines in Windows 8 apps.

Not to mention that at the moment at least, the IE rendering engine that's available to devs isn't the full version, which means JavaScript isn't fully supported. So I doubt Google or Mozilla would want to put limited versions of their browsers on the store. Some of the WinRT APIs are still very "immature" at this moment in time.

Hopefully Windows 8 Blue fixes most of these issues, since there's definately potential there.

That's only true for Windows RT (ARM version). In Windows 8 (for x86/x64 processors), they can use whatever rendering engine they want. Chrome has a Win8 version for example, and that uses their own rendering engine.

 

[Baconsammy]

That's only true for Windows RT (ARM version). In Windows 8 (for x86/x64 processors), they can use whatever rendering engine they want. Chrome has a Win8 version for example, and that uses their own rendering engine.

Yep, I run Chrome as an app instead of a program. Kinda wish Firefox allowed for this too.

 

[SPDIF]

That's only true for Windows RT (ARM version). In Windows 8 (for x86/x64 processors), they can use whatever rendering engine they want. Chrome has a Win8 version for example, and that uses their own rendering engine.

It's true for all WinRT (Metro) apps; x86 or otherwise. If Google wants to list Chrome in the store (the store that Durango will presumably be using), then they can't use their own engine.

I don't think MS are going to let just any x86 program run on Durango. They'll limit it to WinRT/Metro apps.

 

[XtremeXpider]

I don't think MS are going to let just any x86 program run on Durango. They'll limit it to WinRT/Metro apps.

Well, the next gen games will be x86 "programs"

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

The prospect of Windows (WinRT) apps on Xbox is very exciting and the BUILD 2013 promo gives me hope it's going to happen. That said I have to imagine it is going to be a separate curated store as many apps would not make sense on Xbox and some apps developed for Xbox might not make sense on Windows. I imagine it will be like iPad and iPhone with separate stores for each device. The main advantage is going to be the ease of developing an app for Windows phone, PC, tablet, and Xbox all at the same time.

Have to say I just played with the Pizza Hut app on Xbox last night and I think it is brilliant. I would definitely use the Xbox to order food and drinks and I hope more apps like this are coming. The app works really well and visualizes the pizza as you are customizing it. People have complained about Xbox dashboard ads for things you can't buy on the Xbox and now you can order a Mountain Dew or fast food delivered directly to your home with great specificity. The biggest stumbling block of the console is how long it takes to jump between apps and the lack of resume/instant-resume in task switching. The next Xbox is supposed to address both issues at the OS level and this will make huge useability advancements as a result. If they can get natural voice recognition working well with apps like the Pizza Hut one then they have something really big.

 

[JaggedSac]

The prospect of Windows (WinRT) apps on Xbox is very exciting and the BUILD 2013 promo gives me hope it's going to happen. That said I have to imagine it is going to be a separate curated store as many apps would not make sense on Xbox and some apps developed for Xbox might not make sense on Windows. I imagine it will be like iPad and iPhone with separate stores for each device. The main advantage is going to be the ease of developing an app for Windows phone, PC, tablet, and Xbox all at the same time.

I would imagine it will be another target platform when a dev codes and deploys their app, such as RT and x86 is now. So if a dev wants to target all three, they can, or two, or one. It will be up to them and should be fairly simple. The store already handles this scenario.

Have to say I just played with the Pizza Hut app on Xbox last night and I think it is brilliant. I would definitely use the Xbox to order food and drinks and I hope more apps like this are coming. The app works really well and visualizes the pizza as you are customizing it. People have complained about Xbox dashboard ads for things you can't buy on the Xbox and now you can order a Mountain Dew or fast food delivered directly to your home. The biggest stumbling block of the console is how long it takes to jump between apps and its lack of instant resume in task switching. The next Xbox is supposed to address both issues at the OS level and this will make huge useability advancements as a result. If they can get natural voice recognition working well with apps like the Pizza Hut one then they have something really big.

The fast app switching will certainly be a large boon to certain types of applications. Tutorial apps, forum apps, the browser, etc. I think picture in picture could be cool so you could be watching a tutorial in an app, while playing simultaneously. Or Skyping, etc.

 

[0xCA2]

Man i am getting hyped! Can't wait to see what MS has in store.

 

[Justin]

I am getting pretty excited too but more so for the inevitable flood of next gen game announcements that can happen after both consoles are announced.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I am getting pretty excited too but more so for the inevitable flood of next gen game announcements that can happen after both consoles are announced.

Yep, There will also be a flood of re-announcements on the 21st for games already going to PS4 that can now be publicly acknowledged as games for the new Xbox.

 

[enzo_gt]

I am getting pretty excited too but more so for the inevitable flood of next gen game announcements that can happen after both consoles are announced.

This is another great plus.

We need this announcement ASAP.

 

[El_Chino]

I am getting pretty excited too but more so for the inevitable flood of next gen game announcements that can happen after both consoles are announced.

Just 16 more days

 

[Baconsammy]

I'm looking forward to all the post-conference interviews with devs. That was the best part about the Sony conference. Many companies that aren't invited on-stage are still there and willing to be interviewed about their upcoming projects. Can't wait to hear from Bethesda.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yeesh. Yeah, Windows 8 is straight up garbage in terms of UI. Sure it's an improvement when it comes to performance, but at the expense of useability. It is god-awful, the metro-UI is a disaster and it better be significantly redesigned for Durango's sake. Well below something like iOS.

 

[DopeyFish]

Yeesh. Yeah, Windows 8 is straight up garbage in terms of UI. Sure it's an improvement when it comes to performance, but at the expense of useability. It is god-awful, the metro-UI is a disaster and it better be significantly redesigned for Durango's sake. Well below something like iOS.

iOS is fucking trash, man

The only thing that iOS has going for it is consistency and visual cues.

They can fix W8- the problems aren't that big.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The only thing that iOS has going for it is consistency and visual cues.

Pretty important aspects of UI design, dontcha' think?

I'm using Win8 on a PC right now and it is ridiculously cumbersome to use, especially with some apps being full screen. They should not have forced a UI intended for touch screens on desktops.

Doesn't give me much confidence in Kinect being a viable UI navigator if they can't even get the basics right.

It also hurts that in terms of aesthetics it looks like someone vomited monochromatic colors on rectangles.

 

[boyshine]

So what's expected from the retail meeting? Will anyone be reporting from it, or is it all NDA'd?

 

[njean777]

Which is especially odd because using the metro interface as your start is pretty inarguably more efficient at doing what the archaic start menu does.

It will be a slow process, people are still adjusting and hate change. In a few years maybe the consensus will reach that where people realize the metro start is a better solution

Its not a better solution though (there is more of a reason then hating change that people do not like the start screen). I feel OSX and Linux have way better solutions already. Make everything optional and not mandatory. Alfred, spotlight, and Quicksilver on OSX make it a breeze to find anything you want. The dock is simple and works just fine (never have to use it if you don't want to). Though Finder does need sprucing up, but that is supposedly finally gonna be done for 10.9. You can choose to use launchpad or basically choose to use any of the iOS like features. Not so with Windows 8 its use it, or pay 5$ for an app that makes it back to what windows 8 should have been.

Pretty important aspects of UI design, dontcha' think?

I'm using Win8 on a PC right now and it is ridiculously cumbersome to use, especially with some apps being full screen. They should not have forced a UI intended for touch screens on desktops.

Doesn't give me much confidence in Kinect being a viable UI navigator if they can't even get the basics right.

It also hurts that in terms of aesthetics it looks like someone vomited monochromatic colors on rectangles.

Agree completely.

 

[ekim]

So what's expected from the retail meeting? Will anyone be reporting from it, or is it all NDA'd?

What do you mean?

 

[DopeyFish]

Pretty important aspects of UI design, dontcha' think?

I'm using Win8 on a PC right now and it is ridiculously cumbersome to use, especially with some apps being full screen. They should not have forced a UI intended for touch screens on desktops.

Doesn't give me much confidence in Kinect being a viable UI navigator if they can't even get the basics right.

It also hurts that in terms of aesthetics it looks like someone vomited monochromatic colors on rectangles.

Yes and no- there are fairly simple (and some not so simple) ways to alleviate the issues.

And the monochromatic color schema is one thin that's a positive for W8, not a negative. They just need to add proper customization.

And kinect navigates around the dash pretty well and the dash is currently metro based....

 

[0xCA2]

Would not be surprised if the Kinect requirement is because of the metro UI. Since Kinect II is rumored to be much better, I actually wouldn't have a problem navigating a metro UI with my finger/ entering data with voice or finger as long as there are other options. Sounds kind of fun.

I know a lot of people hate the idea of it though