Programming Issues on XBox One - Johnathon Blow
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
TheGreyHulk
Member
it's not just Blow. it's common sense. we all know there is less power available for devs in the XB1 + more OS bloat for XB1. that's a fact. that's not a myth or BS, it's fact.
Games were similar on two machines that were of similar power, but the slightly weaker one ended up with small compromises?
You don't say?
I know right?
That's delusional.
MS can't even make devs make apps for W8 phones with all their muscle.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
He's ryg from Farbrausch. IMO one of the people that when he speaks, you sit down and listen. Their demos (and demo making tools even) are stuff of legends.
What happened this gen?
Those games that require the cloud will just become always online.
It is. He still shouldn't be listed as a credible source for anything in this context.
The PS3 got a ton of half assed ports?
Sorry but that is bullshit. Digital Foundry said rock solid 30FPS (which pretty much means that if game wouldn't be locked to 30 it would go much higher)
coffeetable
Banned
I don't think so. When you look at Microsoft's last few E3 presentations with the 360, their reveal for the One is actually exactly in line with their admitted focus for the 360--furthering a concentration on the media aspects of their console, using gaming as a conduit to become the primary entertainment center in people's living rooms.
Sony impressed a lot of people with their reveal because they seemed to be actively seeking a gamer-centric, developer-centric approach with their next console. Microsoft, on the other hand, appears to remain very focused to their admitted goals with the Xbox in that they haven't really changed their approach to engaging with consumers in any way. If anything, they are doubling-down on ignoring the interests of core gamers in order to appeal to a broader audience (e.g., opening your console's reveal with tv, tv, tv, sports, fantasy football, tv, Call of Duty etc.), which could very well come back to bite them in the end. Honestly, the reveal was at 12:00 P.M. on a Tuesday. Who but hardcore gamers would be watching it live?
Also, in terms of time tables, MS actually had as much or more time to dedicate to their next console than Sony did, with the PS3 launching an entire year after the 360 and playing catch-up for a large portion of its lifespan.
This is why it seems to me that Sony has learned from its prior mistakes and has taken prior criticisms to heart with the PS4, while Microsoft will just continue to do whatever Microsoft wants to do.
Sorry, but anyone with eyes can tell that the opening of the trailer (i.e. prior to the explosion) is less than the standard framerate for film (24 fps). Take another look yourself. (I watched this trailer as a 1080p mp4 on my PS3, so it's not a slow computer or YouTube at fault either.)
Will they fix this for the final release? Probably.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Considering Blow is in bed with Sony at this point (and who knows what went on between him and MS before) I would take what he says with a grain of salt.
You speak the truth but your avatar gives me a migraine lol.
the digital foundry guy is blind?
the 24 hour thing is for authentication
games that use azure for cloud computing can and will require an internet connection
if the devs are smart they will allow the game to gracefully fail if you're offline and just scale down, but thats not guarenteed
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It could be poorly encoded trailer. DF usually knows what they're talking about, and even have framedrop analyzing software, and usually much better video sources than normally available. Also, the publicly available trailer was not less than 24FPS during that opening, but it did skip frames here and there, which can be verified by going frame by frame though it. To be less than 24 it would have to skip a lot more.
This... I like this.
For some reason that trailer is choppy, but during the live stream it was a smooth 30fps.
See for yourself: http://youtu.be/RiNGZMx2vhY?t=48m18s
So he's lying? Are we calling him a liar? Do we have evidence for this or at least evidence of a history of lying on his part?
perineumlick
Member
What he's talking about was a problem with the video feed. There was a link on Sony's site that showed a much smoother video than the one used. The live demo on Jimmy Fallon was also buttery smooth.
This makes sense, but you're wrong that there weren't enough skipped frames to go less than 24. I know what 24 fps looks like, and there were several parts of the opening that were flat-out choppy. (Look at the ships flying as your own ship lands.) 24 fps doesn't look choppy; it maintains the illusion of seamless motion, albeit with blur/judder for pans and fast motion.
Link please?
and this is MS fault?
Bacause from what I understand he is saying exactly that which for me doesn't really make sens.
MS isn't responsible for PS3's architecture.
I also don't agree that all this games were half assed but I know people like to blame everything on "lazy developers".
Yes it does, what are you talking about? Cinematic frame-rate in games has always been horrible, hell any frame drops below 30 is terrible.
Metalmurphy
Member
I was talking about the pressure from console manufacturers to have games be identical, both in looks and content or they wouldn't be published. MS once had a meeting explaining devs how they should downgrade their game if necessary. Sony makes them have extra content if the game releases later on the PS3 or it won't get published. etc. These restrictions are real.
It's obvious now that their whole strategy was based on Always Online and cloud computing to make the hardware more effective.
the incredible backlash last month has screwed up all their plans..
assuming most people keep it online anyway or that they require a connection every 24 hours etc, hopefully eventually it will still come to pass where the hardware in the box doesn't really matter as much and the cloud assist will make the games better
in before the doubters who don't think it will work... it WILL
here is a good conversation of how it might be implemented
the incredible backlash last month has screwed up all their plans..
assuming most people keep it online anyway or that they require a connection every 24 hours etc, hopefully eventually it will still come to pass where the hardware in the box doesn't really matter as much and the cloud assist will make the games better
in before the doubters who don't think it will work... it WILL
here is a good conversation of how it might be implemented
ThisWreckage
Banned
I'm pretty sure those rumors about devs having difficulties developing games for this console are true. It may be a reason why they didn't show a lot of software too. There were some rumors kicking around that certain titles were running like shit on the Xbone.
I love how people are quick to dismiss Blow even though the independent side of gaming has had a tepid response to the Xbone at best.
I love how people are quick to dismiss Blow even though the independent side of gaming has had a tepid response to the Xbone at best.
Serious question. Can they do this? I mean the DF articles had game comparisons that run at higher FR on the other.
Always-honest
Banned
Maybe it's a smart business move. Tv is big business after all. Billions of couchpotatos in the world
LOL. How do you manage to watch movies? 24 fps is terrible for fast-paced action, as it makes everything a blur, but it certainly doesn't make things choppy. Choppy is the slideshow effect; one moment an object is here, the next it's there, with no transition in between.
Do you have a link for that?
I only knew that MS would not allow a game for their platform if it didn't have feature parity with other releases and would be released later.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-24-why-microsoft-wont-publish-psn-firsts
http://the-witness.net/news/2013/02/a-clarification-about-our-ps4-exclusivity/
And why would Jonathan Blow lie about this? He still is an independent developer, not a Sony PR man. I don't think the game is even published or funded by Sony.
I would wait for proof before believing anything about cloud computing.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
24 FPS only doesn't look choppy when it's evenly spaced 24FPS, and when there's motion blur present. Otherwise it looks pretty choppy. When you have a baseline 30FPS footage and then frames are skipped randomly, you could still have average 26-27FPS, but it would look choppy just because it's not evenly spaced in time, but frame drops are randomly thrown in.
Because a movie is a movie and a game is a game. We've been trained to accept 24fps in movies. Movies at higher framerates don't even feel like movies to me because of that. I don't think sub-30fps gaming is acceptable whatsoever.
Bluekaveli
Member
coffeetable
Banned
Well, Bioshock Infinite had the original Bioshock on the PS3 version's bluray AND Move support, but no Bioshock or Kinect support for the 360 version. Also, Dante's Inferno had it's "Divine Edition" on PS3, which was essentially the 360 version with other features, including the entire original poem. So, Microsoft may claim that they have this power, but off the top of my head I can think of instances in which 2K and EA have completely ignored it in this console generation.
So, a little update. Turns out the trailer I have on my PS3 is (at least) ever so slightly different from the one that I linked to above. For one thing, there's no text on the lower left in the opening seconds.
The funny thing is, the Youtube video I ripped that one from was also titled "Killzone: Shadow Fall Gameplay", and was also from the official Killzone channel. So I guess what I ended up downloading on Feb. 21st must have been quietly replaced with the current video.
It's possible that the frame skippage I'm seeing on the currently uploaded vid is just YouTube/computer fuckery, and even then, it doesn't look as bad as the one on my PS3. Conversely, Youtube compression may be smoothing out the rough parts. So, I'm ripping this video (again, the 1080p mp4 source), and going to play it in my PS3 for comparison.
The funny thing is, the Youtube video I ripped that one from was also titled "Killzone: Shadow Fall Gameplay", and was also from the official Killzone channel. So I guess what I ended up downloading on Feb. 21st must have been quietly replaced with the current video.
It's possible that the frame skippage I'm seeing on the currently uploaded vid is just YouTube/computer fuckery, and even then, it doesn't look as bad as the one on my PS3. Conversely, Youtube compression may be smoothing out the rough parts. So, I'm ripping this video (again, the 1080p mp4 source), and going to play it in my PS3 for comparison.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Lets try this with actual numbers shall we?
CPUs in both Xbone and PS4 are said to be the same, so we can take them out of the equation because there is no advantage nor disadvantages in theory...
So now we have the GPUs
Xbone GPU is said to offer 1.2 TF performance.....lets take out the decimal and call it 12
PS4 GPU is said to offer 1.8 TF performance....taking out the decimal point again gives us 18
You will notice both 12 and 18 are divisible by 6
50% of 12 is 6 and 1/3rd of 18 is also 6
If you take 50% of 12 and then add it to 12 you get 18...
So if you say PS4 is 50% more powerful than Xbone, this is TRUE
ALSO
You will notice 1/3rd (aka 33%) of 18 is also 6
if you take 33% away from 18, you get 12
So saying Xbone is 33% less powerful than PS4 is ALSO TRUE
1.8TF is 50% greater than 1.2 TF and 1.2 TF is 33% less than 1.8 TF
CPUs in both Xbone and PS4 are said to be the same, so we can take them out of the equation because there is no advantage nor disadvantages in theory...
So now we have the GPUs
Xbone GPU is said to offer 1.2 TF performance.....lets take out the decimal and call it 12
PS4 GPU is said to offer 1.8 TF performance....taking out the decimal point again gives us 18
You will notice both 12 and 18 are divisible by 6
50% of 12 is 6 and 1/3rd of 18 is also 6
If you take 50% of 12 and then add it to 12 you get 18...
So if you say PS4 is 50% more powerful than Xbone, this is TRUE
ALSO
You will notice 1/3rd (aka 33%) of 18 is also 6
if you take 33% away from 18, you get 12
So saying Xbone is 33% less powerful than PS4 is ALSO TRUE
1.8TF is 50% greater than 1.2 TF and 1.2 TF is 33% less than 1.8 TF
I think most devs picked the 360 as their lead platform because it was easier to develop for, and had many issues with porting their games over to the PS3 due to the more complicated architecture despite having more power in theory.
Third parties leading on XBox one, and having to deal with the super over-complex PS4 architecture and super difficult development environment is like totally going to happen again.
I said "timed." I don;t care either way, but with all the shit-slinging it has been hard to keep perspective.
GameSeeker
Member
The irony is that PS4 is easier to program than XBone. PS4 has a simple unified memory model. The XBone has 32MB of ESRAM and Move Engines that need extra programming code in order to get optimum performance.
Sony has neatly turned the tables on Microsoft this generation.
bigboss370
Member
why? we still need cable boxes to plug into the console.
...
Bethesda making a xbone exclusive confirmed >_>
If anything cable box manufacturers are jumping for joy.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Why? If they've got a vested interest in the xbox they're just going to lie to you or speak in PR babble.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Can you imagine all those who saw it thinking it's gonna do all that stuff then take it home and find out all it does is connect to the devices you still need?
Dat Infinite Cloud Power.