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[Something Wicked]

as I mentioned, growth in the US (the biggest cable subscribing country in the world per capita) is anemic, and will likely be in decline within 2-3 years. Outside of the US, growth is even slower than that, and in most countries people are doing only OTA or downloads.

Cable growth will be anemic, just like population growth will be. That doesn't mean overall US cable subscribers will decline rapidly. Most people I know in their 20s have cable subscriptions. To many of them, one would be considered a bit "weird" or "poor" without it.

Also, it seems that a lot of people here are trying to justify their pirating of TV shows and ignoring how the lovely content they watch is paid for.

 

[HokieJoe]

For the life of me, I can't understand why ANYONE not traveling would watch ANYTHING on a tablet or phone (other than cost). The feed is inferior quality, hiccups, spotty coverage...All that on a dinky screen.

I'm an HD snob though. I won't even lower myself to watch Netflix/Hulu/Amazon. They choke their streams down too much for my taste. I do use VUDU and XBox video though. They're commensurate in IQ.

This is my biggest problem with MS' solution. As others have pointed out, technically their solution isn't stuck with live tv. However at the end of it the problem is still that their solution potentially sucks for a group or family watching something.

"Oh I like that actor!! Let me watch their newest trailer!!" Yeah, because THAT'S not going to piss off everyone else watching with you...

"oh man, that pass was incredible! I'm going to skype my buddy on this snapped portion of the screen over here to brag! Give me one sec guys.."

Not only can you do everything MS is "enabling" you to do already on a tablet or phone, but doing so on a tablet or phone doesn't impose on everyone else watching as well. Even further, they can ALSO do it in a personalized manner on THEIR tablet or phone.

 

[HokieJoe]

That's their only hope at this point because it looks like they got punked on the hardware side.

It'll be a brilliant move if MS can get cable company to subsidize the xbox one kind of like cell phones. Like 2-3 years contract with cable company on higher-end package and get xbox one for free kind of deal. That is assuming there is a cable-card dvr version of xbox one.

Otherwise if MS just wants to overlay the video feed with ads, lol.

 

[soul creator]

I'm actually curious if any other devices can be passed through the HDMI-in, beyond just a cable/satellite box.

Would be funny if I could play a completely different system through the same input, but still have the Xbox One overlay to receive game invites and stuff. Maybe you could literally "snap" between a PS4 game and an Xbox One game, lol

 

[Mindwipe]

Linear broadcast is in an extremely healthy place, with a huge market.

Trying to address it could be smart.

But it's very, very, very hard to do, which is why nobody has done it. And Microsoft have completely hashed it up.

 

[Loofy]

Television play is actually pretty important, if MS gets a handle on the games front then theyve effectively jumped 5 years ahead of Apple and Google(who have only had mild success integrating iOS and android to TVs)

 

[mrklaw]

For the life of me, I can't understand why ANYONE not traveling would watch ANYTHING on a tablet or phone (other than cost). The feed is inferior quality, hiccups, spotty coverage...All that on a dinky screen.

I'm an HD snob though. I won't even lower myself to watch Netflix/Hulu/Amazon. They choke their streams down too much for my taste. I do use VUDU and XBox video though. They're commensurate in IQ.

But then if you're an HD snob,you won't want your Star Trek shrunk down while you,re browsing for tickets

Sure I would rather watch Netflix etc on a TV, but the secondary activities shown (browsing the net, seeing fantasy sports results etc) would b fine on a tablet or phone

 

[BigDug13]

Let me see if I understand things. The Xbox will provide a new interface to search for and watch live TV shows, but offers absolutely no interface to interact with the DVR portion of your cable box or your on-demand portion of your cable box. So in order to record shows, watch your recorded shows, or watch a TV show on-demand, you will still need to swap inputs and not use the Xbox at all.

Do I have all this right?

 

[fiyah]

This set-top box, said by industry insiders to be available to a limited beta of customers in March, will offer cable channels delivered “over the top” to televisions anywhere there is an Internet connection regardless of provider. (Microsoft Mediaroom, for example, requires AT&T’s service, and Xbox has limited offerings for Comcast and FiOS customers). For the first time, consumers will be able to subscribe to content per channel, unlike bundled cable services, and you may also be able to subscribe per show as well.

Source

Will post this again with snippets this time so people can see what's brewing outside of MS. If MS could have done this then always-on would make more sense and they would have a better shot at revolutionizing tv but I guess they are doing the exact same thing as Apple + Google and expecting a different result.

 

[Revan]

I wish that game game consoles were for, ya know, playing games? Not for all this multimedia crap that I suspect the minority will use outside of Netflix or Hulu.

While I understand that the concepts in theory are great - do everything from a single box - honestly, the PS4 or the XBone won't pull me away from every other device I already have connected to my media choices.

The WiiU comes to mind - do everything from the WiiU Pad. I used it once - when I unboxed it - and have never touched it again because I have no reason too.....just like what the XBone and PS4 have shown (although we've seen more of the MS offering) - things I might try once and never touch again.

I already have a DVR, PC, laptop, smartphone and tablet for everything else. I really just want a console that'll play games - and that's it. None of extra added stuff will ever sway my decision to get one or the other, because I don't have a need for yet another all in one appliance, which is what this generation is turning into in my eyes.

 

[daveo42]

I think it would work well as a set-top box that replaces the cable box. Sadly, this thing has to work in conjunction with another set-top box for it to work. I'd consider buying solely for the TV integration if I could finally hock my current cable box.

 

[Anticitizen One]

I just made a thread like this yesterday. Did we really need another?

 

[harSon]

I still don't understand the accusations of Microsoft focusing on something that's outdated. Are people moving away from cable subscriptions? Absolutely. But the number of households doing so is insignificant at this point, and the rate at which this transition is happening is quite slow. Fact of the matter is, the majority of people have a cable subscription. Even though cable cutting is most significant within the younger demographic, a significant percentage of them still have cable integration. And even with the fact that Microsoft is keying in on a technology that will see reduced market share in the distant future, they're also focusing on the end game of the cable subscription to cable cutting transition.

They have Amazon Prime, Netflix and Hulu on their platforms. They have the movie/television Xbox Live Market Place, and evident by their desire to bring back Heroes and create an original series within the Halo universe, they're seeking to create unique content for their customers to consume.

They're taking a holistic approach to the situation, focusing on the future without losing sight of the present. And it's a smart decision considering that it's a decent way to carve out a unique identity, with the capability of expanding the user base past its current demographics. People always say that "nobody asked for this," and it's among the most bone headed statements that can be levied. As long as Microsoft brings the games, then I see absolutely no issue with them adding features. An attack on used games, features behind pay walls, having to pay for Xbox Live, etc. are all legitimate criticisms that deserve discussions, but losing your shit over Microsoft adding features just because they don't jive with your own sensibilities as a gamer? It just seems petty, especially considering that there may be people who ultimately find enjoyment in them.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

There are over 100 million cable/satellite subscribers in the US alone.

Doesn't seem like a small market to me. Probably in the range of a billion worldwide when you think about the reach of satellite especially.


The thing people have to also keep in mind is that you don't know all the SKU's for Xbox One that are planned for the next generation. This first version is just one version. Deals are being made.

Edit I was almost on the money:

Worldwide pay TV subscribers to reach 907 million in 2013

Global pay-TV market added nearly 47 million subscribers in 2012 reaching a total of 864 million subscribers. “The growth in satellite, cable, and IPTV markets was strong, although digital terrestrial TV growth was flat in 2012. ABI Research expects that the pay-TV market will continue to grow in 2013 to reach 907 million subscribers,” said Jake Saunders, VP and practice director of core forecasting.

So almost a billion and growing.

 

[coldfoot]

I only watch live sports and everything else via streaming. Even the Live sports watching I do is over the internet and the quality has caught up to netflix 720p.

There are over 100 million cable/satellite subscribers in the US alone.

And how many of those subscribers are going "I can't wait to pay MS $500 + $5 monthly fee so I can have their guide on top of my DVR's guide and use voice control and have part of my screen taken up by stats I could easily look up on my phone/tablet?"

 

[trmas]

Americans are stupid. Those millions of cable subscribers raped on a monthly basis by companies such as Comcast will line up to get raped by MS as well.

 

[harSon]

Let me see if I understand things. The Xbox will provide a new interface to search for and watch live TV shows, but offers absolutely no interface to interact with the DVR portion of your cable box or your on-demand portion of your cable box. So in order to record shows, watch your recorded shows, or watch a TV show on-demand, you will still need to swap inputs and not use the Xbox at all.

Do I have all this right?

From what they've shared thus far, you're absolutely correct.

Considering they received a patent for recording televised in the background of a video game console (http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/patent-points-potential-dvr-feature-xbox-118127), I think it's safe to assume that they plan to circumvent the necessity to ever switch inputs at some point. While they have a lot of experience with Windows Media Center, this style of media capability is a new venture for Microsoft. It's likely going to be something that's rolled out over time, and perfected on the go, which seems to be a Microsoft staple in terms of the road map employed for releasing technology/software. The difference between the 360 at launch, and the Xbox 360 now, from a software and feature standpoint is night and day. It's almost like comparing two consoles. This is the benefit of a scalable video game platform, and I hope we'll see a similar transformation within the media qualities of the platform over the generation.

 

[clubstoic]

Wow It doesn't have a DVR? Why is this good?

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

And how many of those subscribers are going "I can't wait to pay MS $500 + $5 monthly fee so I can have their guide on top of my DVR's guide and use voice control and have part of my screen taken up by stats I could easily look up on my phone/tablet?"

As far as I know the live TV stuff demonstrated for Xbox One doesn't require an Xbox Live subscription. So I see many of the 1 billion pay TV subscribers in the world wanting to have that incredible voice and gesture functionality of Xbox One.

Now the Xbox TV (XTV) service is a different matter. That is a paid service where you'll probably find exclusive content like the Halo TV show and exclusive content from Dreamworks and Paramount.

 

[NullPointer]

As far as I know the live TV stuff demonstrated for Xbox One doesn't require an Xbox Live subscription.

How much do you know?

 

[TGO]

Don't know, seems very Smart TV to me with more power behind it

 

[rohlfinator]

Outdated.

At the very bare minimum the XBone should have been a *replacement* for your cable box, or even your cable service. Instead of getting into bed with outdated Cable TV concepts, it should have been a strong foot forward to what Cable needs to transition towards - full on-demand digital content. You know, like that whole newfangled internet thing lets us do.

Nailed it. I think they could still potentially turn it around, and maybe their game plan is to transition to an on-demand model. But what they showed in its current form isn't very appealing to me.

It's not a terrible idea, but it seems like they invested a lot and made a lot of sacrifices, for something that most people don't really want or need.

There is a ton of room for improvement with TV interfaces, though. Not sure if Kinect is the right answer, but a product that really reinvents the act of watching TV (including the on-demand we've come to expect from Netflix and the like) could be big.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

How much do you know?

The service is the same as what they were doing with Media Center. They are only providing guide data. They are not going to force people to pay for guide data.

It just wouldn't make sense. If the whole goal of the machine is to take over Input 1 of all TV's hence the name "Xbox One" then why would you trip up that goal with an unnecessary pay wall?



I know the same as everyone else here. We have their entire roadmap and everything in the roadmap is coming true. The name Xbox One was hinted at at least a dozen times in that roadmap. The 2013 next-generation Xbox was referred to as the "One Box" or "Input One" box at least a dozen times in those slides. The "Broad Appeal" design was described as making it look like an "A/V form factor" instead of a game console. The haptic feedback controllers were planned for 2012 along with the XTV service and additional Xbox Live tiers and redesigned 360 (all that pushed back a year). Microsoft has opened production studios in LA and around the world to create original TV programming (probably for both Xbox 360 and Xbox One). Look at the Xbox Anthem reel that opened before the Xbox One reveal, nobody in that video was there by accident.

The people saying their strategy is outdated only know 1/3 of the strategy so far. Live TV control has broad appeal to many of the 1 billion paid TV subscribers. XTV is forward thinking as a competitor to Netflix/Amazon/Hulu. Embedded hardware and OEMs is a plan to do for Xbox what Microsoft did for Windows.

 

[coldfoot]

They are only providing guide data. They are not going to force people to pay for guide data.

Exactly what are they providing with the Netflix/Hulu apps?

 

[JaggedSac]

I have nothing against the XBone, but I have no use for the TV aspects of this thing. However, I am sure the Plex guys are gonna drop a fantastic looking application onto the marketplace once this thing is released.

 

[JesseZao]

It certainly feels like a step backwards with how media is progressing these days. I don't have cable and I consume media via rental/streaming/retail. It seems strange to support live TV when they could be pushing and improving their own marketplace. Maybe the kickbacks from cable companies were too good.

 

[NullPointer]

They are not going to force people to pay for guide data.

Why in the world not? To offer that up for free would be quite the change in direction for the Xbox.

Sorry I don't share your optimism ;P

 

[jagowar]

It certainly feels like a step backwards with how media is progressing these days. I don't have cable and I consume media via rental/streaming/retail. It seems strange to support live TV when they could be pushing and improving their own marketplace. Maybe the kickbacks from cable companies were too good.

Why can't they do both? I have always seen the hdmi method as a temporary solution until the streaming services get good enough that they can replace your cable box and then they will tie in with the same guide on the xbox now for live but add a on demand section where every program is immediately available after it airs. They are setup for the present and future with xbox one. Even in the guide screenshots there is something called an "app channel" section which to me means they are already starting to unify everything into that guide.

Why in the world not? To offer that up for free would be quite the change in direction for the Xbox.

Sorry I don't share your optimism ;P

Their track record with media center has never been to charge for guide data.... and I would say its a virtual certainty this guide data is coming from the same place as media center's data.

 

[jstevenson]

it's smart because it reduces friction between things I do in my living room besides Xbox, and Xbox.

now whether I'm using HBO Go or Netflix, watching a blu-ray, listening to music or even watching a live TV show, my friends list and what they are up to will be a part of it, and i can instantly jump back into any games.

the idea itself is really strong, because TV/DVR/online video usage is probably the other "big" thing you do on the same screen as your Xbox.

there's something rather spectacular, in my mind, about being able to receive a friend invite to play halo while watching Storage Wars and instantly getting into said action. It almost makes my TV/video apps/Xbox/etc feel more like the smartphone era in terms of on-the-fly switching.

personally, I'm stoked - though I am curious to see how it integrates with my TiVo Premiere. That's really the big thing... but even if I'm still using my Tivo remote, and Xbox stuff can be controlled via voice commands it could be cool.

 

[Windu]

Microsoft still has netflix, hulu etc.. so they are just trying to do everything. Maybe at the end of this generation the majority of tv viewers will be doing their entertainment viewing elsewhere, but until then i think the simple hdmi in is a good idea.

While cable is going away, its going away slowly. Besides, i don't think it took Microsoft much to implement this, it basically media center.

Edit: the biggest thing they can do for entertainment is make a xbox video subscription and make their original content part of that. Basically their netflix competitor.

 

[DopeyFish]

Why in the world not? To offer that up for free would be quite the change in direction for the Xbox.

Sorry I don't share your optimism ;P

They won't be charging for it

The idea of having the tv go through xbox is that there would be more engagement... Xbox is always there, never have to change inputs

If you get people hooked on using the Xbox guide over their cable box guide, something that will happen for some tv companies who have archaic guides (I'm looking at you, Rogers) then they will be one step away from other parts in the ecosystem

People these days only turn on their console if they want to play games and occasionally watch netflix... Why not make the attempt to have the Xbox on every time you use the TV?

This is why I think its smart and not an outdated philosophy.

 

[jstevenson]

Microsoft still has netflix, hulu etc.. so they are just trying to do everything. Maybe at the end of this generation the majority of tv viewers will be doing their entertainment viewing elsewhere, but until then i think the simple hdmi in is a good idea.

While cable is going away, its going away slowly.

I think cable is doing a great job of re-entrenching with authenticated apps like Hbo GO, the Time Warner live TV app, and WatchESPN.

it's a fascinating time. I know as a sports fan though, there's no way I'll give up live cable.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Merged two dupe threads on this subject.

 

[soul creator]

one potential benefit is unified search, so it can search across the TV guide, and all the separate apps (I actually use this somewhat frequently on my current 360).

Of course, Google TV and Roku had/have similar features, but this is probably much easier with Kinect voice then it is with a big keyboard or remote or whatever.

 

[Kazerei]

The idea of "one box" is smart, but the XBone completely fails to execute that idea.

 

[Windu]

I think cable is doing a great job of re-entrenching with authenticated apps like Hbo GO, the Time Warner live TV app, and WatchESPN.

it's a fascinating time. I know as a sports fan though, there's no way I'll give up live cable.

it sucks if your team is in market. But as a out of market fan, i can watch my team (mlb, braves) via the internet. For special events like the playoffs though, you still need access to a tv.

 

[Jac_Solar]

I think it's weird when people get excited about being able to watch television.. on their television. BUT, integration with fantasy sports could be cool. Interactive television would be cool, too. Change the camera angle during a football game, etc.

I think the camera angle thing has been a thing for the last decade or more - or, it was at least a thing awhile ago I believe. You could change the camera angle on certain sport shows. Or maybe I'm just imagining that.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Because they aren't targeting you, they are targeting me. Guys with kids who are casuals and want to have something that has across the board use with the wife, kid, and dad. I want to play madden/halo/COD, boy wants minecraft/lego, wife wants spotify and I have to call my mother on Skype so my son can say good night. Most guys like me just pay our cable bill and don't think about it every month. This is the console aimed straight at the 40 year old's heart.

I know you tried to make that case in your thread, but I'm not buying it. You can't share your games with your kids on their profiles. That's a huge strike against a family with kids who may want to, you know, play on more than one console on different accounts.

 

[xJavonta]

Because TV is not on the way out. Yet.

 

[JesseZao]

Why can't they do both? I have always seen the hdmi method as a temporary solution until the streaming services get good enough that they can replace your cable box and then they will tie in with the same guide on the xbox now for live but add a on demand section where every program is immediately available after it airs. They are setup for the present and future with xbox one. Even in the guide screenshots there is something called an "app channel" section which to me means they are already starting to unify everything into that guide.

I realize it's a transition, just seemed like they spent way too long on it. Figured they'd have new media services for Live announced is all.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Man people in this thread seem to act like half the people will be streaming instead of watching TV by next year and that the Xbox One doesn't support streaming options. Those people are the ones that are short sighted, not Microsoft.

Let me see if I understand things. The Xbox will provide a new interface to search for and watch live TV shows, but offers absolutely no interface to interact with the DVR portion of your cable box or your on-demand portion of your cable box. So in order to record shows, watch your recorded shows, or watch a TV show on-demand, you will still need to swap inputs and not use the Xbox at all.

Do I have all this right?

No, you don't.

 

[10k]

Aren't there apps for Sports? I know for the NCAA games I just downloaded a free APP and was able to watch the games in full HD live

In Canada, hockey is king and there are no apps to watch the game unless your subscribed to cable and you download your cable providers app.

 

[coldfoot]

Their track record with media center has never been to charge for guide data.... and I would say its a virtual certainty this guide data is coming from the same place as media center's data.

Their track record for online gaming/Netflix/Hulu on Windows has never been to charge for any of those, but whenever stuff gets on the Xbox, it goes behind the paywall.

 

[rohlfinator]

Man people in this thread seem to act like half the people will be streaming instead of watching TV by next year and that the Xbox One doesn't support streaming options. Those people are the ones that are short sighted, not Microsoft.

"Supports streaming options" is barely even a bulletpoint anymore. I already own six devices that run Netflix, at this point it's just a standard feature for anything with a screen and an internet connection.

 

[spock]

Those who see this as a "good' or "smart" strategy I dont think are looking at the full picture. The reason this strategy does not really make sense is that the demographic who is still interested in cable I dont think will be willing to pay for what the xbox one is offering. The features of XO while interesting dont really make a strong value proposition IMO.

The TV features could have been used to create a tipping point for people interested in the XO for games. But the way MS is positioning things it looks like gamers are second class citizens.

As for the nonsense about them showing the gaming side at E3, I personally think they are just doing damage control. Dont get me wrong I think there is some truth in that claim, but they really made a big mistake by giving so little to the gaming side of the console at the unveiling.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Cable TV is on the way out?

If anything the telecom companies are re-entrenching with things like HBO Go and Watch ESPN and Showtime Anytime being tied to having a video subscription.

I'm sure the idea of cable itself will eventually into evolve into more of an IPTV based model, but paying a subscription for bundled services doesn't seem like it's going anywhere anytime soon.

Came here to ask this question. Having just recently gotten cable back, it's amazing how much I missed it. It's great to just sit down on the sofa and watch a movie or GoT on a huge screen. Yes, I know you can do this with Netflix and Hulu and such.

I think the cable TV model will change, but I don't think Comcast is going to be shutting down shop anytime soon.

Regardless, I do find it strange that Microsoft is putting SO many eggs in this basket.

 

[Orlics]

Who the fuck watches TV anymore?!?

HBOGO & Netflix

It begs the question "who does this box appeal to?"

The younger gen is all about on demand services while the older gen won't care about an additional box with additional fees to plug into their cable box.

People who watch cable TV give zero fucks about a game console and gamers give zero fucks about cable TV

I'm 23 years old and I download stuff and stream it to my Raspberry Pi, and I also watch live TV (sports, news, etc). I think you might be overestimating the number of young people who do not watch TV.

 

[NullPointer]

I'm 23 years old and I download stuff and stream it to my Raspberry Pi, and I also watch live TV (sports, news, etc). I think you might be overestimating the number of young people who do not watch TV.

Mmhmm.

And habits can change VERY quickly these days. There is far less hassle in transitioning from cable to online on-demand media than ever.

MS wants to inject cable providers with some Botox when we should be taking them out back and shooting them, Old Yeller style.

 

[Orlics]

Mmhmm.

And things can change VERY quickly.

MS wants to inject cable providers with some Botox when we should be taking them out back and shooting them, Old Yeller style.

I was hoping for Apple to disrupt the cable market, but in the absence of that, this'll do. I just hate the UI of every cable box I've used.

 

[soulassssns]

I don't think cable ( in the US ) is going anywhere any time soon.