Fighting Games Weekly | May 20-26 | MRN died so Guilty Gear could live!

Grecco said:
theres shitty people/controversies/streams in esports too its just esports generates way more revenue.
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Nah man FGC makes way more revenue than esports

Just think about all those sticks that everyone buys

AND ALL THOSE AGE HEADSETS

Even at 15% off with the coupon code AGEFanatiq, I'm sure more headsets are sold and more revenue generated through the FGC than in the past twenty years of esports

The man you all hate is simply keeping your hobby afloat and you all know it, you should be thanking him

KappaRyu
 
Welp

Duxxy3 said:
I got the information from twitter last night.

Waasiq Shafi ‏@Waasiq 20h

@supermoose201 @jchensor @FloydLatos Mike Z said on stream about the PS4, wired controllers like arcade sticks will work even if DS3 doesnt.

I looked it up myself on the twitch archive and got very lucky.

http://www.twitch.tv/eightysixed/b/369948877

5:08:45

That's where Mike Z talks about DS4 and wired controllers. All he says DS3 incompatibility doesn't effected wired controllers, but he doesn't know if that effects arcade sticks or not.

edit: a little further on he explains why the DS3 won't work the the PS4 - because the DS3 has analog buttons that the DS4 does not have.
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Potential megaton? Someone go to E3 and start connecting your arcade stick in the PS4s and see if they work.
 
El Sloth said:
Welp



Potential megaton? Someone go to E3 and start connecting your arcade stick in the PS4s and see if they work.
Click to expand...
Doesn't sound like Mike Z's sure it'll work; just that it doesn't ahve the limitation DS3 does. Sony can still put security chips in their licensed controllers if they want to. We'll see if they stick with their PS3 policy or take a page out of the Microsoft handbook and try to make money on it.
Grecco said:
the ios app sucks too
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Not as bad as the Android app. I regularly have to borrow my gf's iphone to watch streams because they won't load on Android.
 
it crashes it doesnt have my favorites anymore, and the update makes it so its just 300 streams and ads

it really sucks at least the web browser works on twitch now
 
See, this is what I'm getting at with my response earlier today, and my similar posts previously in the year: This shit isn't a community. If it was a community, you wouldn't respond to the CEO of twitch saying "you guys act really sexist/racist/homophobic A LOT" by getting pissed off at him and trying to say "Yeah, but look at all the OTHER sexist/racist/homophobes, why you gotta single US out?"

You'd try to FIX YOUR SHIT so he couldn't hit you with that anymore.

That's what an actual community would do. Instead, this community goes into defense mode, and simply tries to discredit what is pretty obviously by this point - looking at both that PA article and now the AMA both landing on the same day - a decently ingrained conception of this "community."

The "community" never really tries to change itself. It just tries to deflect the negative rep it's earned and tires itself out raging about how unfair it all is before retreating to the status quo. This "community" wants all the benefits of being one without actually putting in the work to be looked at as one. Putting in that work requires the sort of self-correction that people like Spooky does when it comes to knowing what is harmful and cutting it out. Same with Keits. Same with MarkMan.

Blowing this guy up for his shitty mobile site? Perfectly alright. Blowing him up for the tech problems the site constantly has at the worst moments? Have at it. But when the CEO of Twitch specifically thinks your "community" is gross? Maybe there's fuckin something to it.

And there is.
 
That's why I wanna send Enzo_gaf to E3 to check for us, SmokeMaxX. I'm sure he won't get into much trouble by hooking up random electronics to the PS4.
 
El Sloth said:
That's why I wanna send Enzo_gaf to E3 to check for us, SmokeMaxX. I'm sure he won't get into much trouble by hooking up random electronics to the PS4.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to hear the results. Actually apparently we're not sure about X1's compatibility with sticks either. Newest update seems to suggest that USB sticks might work on it.
 
FatboyRoberts said:
Blowing this guy up for his shitty mobile site? Perfectly alright. Blowing him up for the tech problems the site constantly has at the worst moments? Have at it. But when the CEO of Twitch specifically thinks your "community" is gross? Maybe there's fuckin something to it.

And there is.
Click to expand...

Things can always be better.

However step one for Twitch would be to make sign ups actually at least authenticate a real email address first. It doesn't have to be GAF level of over-sight, but they could make some effort into making their viewers accountable for their comments.

Then move people like Fanatiq to youtube and we are sweet.
 
El Sloth said:
That's why I wanna send Enzo_gaf to E3 to check for us, SmokeMaxX. I'm sure he won't get into much trouble by hooking up random electronics to the PS4.
Click to expand...

Why not ask our resident arcade stick expert *cough* markman *cough* if he can possibly break ndatell us if they'll work or not.
 
FatboyRoberts said:
See, this is what I'm getting at with my response earlier today, and my similar posts previously in the year: This shit isn't a community. If it was a community, you wouldn't respond to the CEO of twitch saying "you guys act really sexist/racist/homophobic A LOT" by getting pissed off at him and trying to say "Yeah, but look at all the OTHER sexist/racist/homophobes, why you gotta single US out?"

You'd try to FIX YOUR SHIT so he couldn't hit you with that anymore.

That's what an actual community would do. Instead, this community goes into defense mode, and simply tries to discredit what is pretty obviously by this point - looking at both that PA article and now the AMA both landing on the same day - a decently ingrained conception of this "community."

The "community" never really tries to change itself. It just tries to deflect the negative rep it's earned and tires itself out raging about how unfair it all is before retreating to the status quo. This "community" wants all the benefits of being one without actually putting in the work to be looked at as one. Putting in that work requires the sort of self-correction that people like Spooky does when it comes to knowing what is harmful and cutting it out. Same with Keits. Same with MarkMan.

Blowing this guy up for his shitty mobile site? Perfectly alright. Blowing him up for the tech problems the site constantly has at the worst moments? Have at it. But when the CEO of Twitch specifically thinks your "community" is gross? Maybe there's fuckin something to it.

And there is.
Click to expand...

This is really stupid, and so is your definition of "community."
 
FatboyRoberts said:
See, this is what I'm getting at with my response earlier today, and my similar posts previously in the year: This shit isn't a community. If it was a community, you wouldn't respond to the CEO of twitch saying "you guys act really sexist/racist/homophobic A LOT" by getting pissed off at him and trying to say "Yeah, but look at all the OTHER sexist/racist/homophobes, why you gotta single US out?"

You'd try to FIX YOUR SHIT so he couldn't hit you with that anymore.

That's what an actual community would do. Instead, this community goes into defense mode, and simply tries to discredit what is pretty obviously by this point - looking at both that PA article and now the AMA both landing on the same day - a decently ingrained conception of this "community."

The "community" never really tries to change itself. It just tries to deflect the negative rep it's earned and tires itself out raging about how unfair it all is before retreating to the status quo. This "community" wants all the benefits of being one without actually putting in the work to be looked at as one. Putting in that work requires the sort of self-correction that people like Spooky does when it comes to knowing what is harmful and cutting it out. Same with Keits. Same with MarkMan.

Blowing this guy up for his shitty mobile site? Perfectly alright. Blowing him up for the tech problems the site constantly has at the worst moments? Have at it. But when the CEO of Twitch specifically thinks your "community" is gross? Maybe there's fuckin something to it.

And there is.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Honzo asked a loaded question. Yeah, it was probably a troll, but unfortunately the divas of the FGC will make it an issue on Twitter.

If Twitch hated the FGC, then you wouldn't see Weeklies and majors on the front page. People just want all fighting game streams on the front page all the time, so that their max CPM hustle can actually put some food on the table, because they don't make good enough content to bring in non-FGC viewers.

How about stopping random CORN dudes from sitting at the commentary booth, asking the camera guy to zoom in to chicks asses in the crowd and then saying 'I'd do her doe'. But the FGC wants it both ways. 'Yo real rap FUCK E-SPORTS'. Shots fired. Yo damn. Get blown up yo. Esports on blast. YAAAASSS!

No. Fuck you. You cannot have it both ways. You don't want to 'go esports', you don't want to censor yourself, you don't want to move away from your roots, you don't want to dampen your hype. That's perfectly fine. But then don't expect the same kind of treatment e-sports gets.

I don't want the FGC to change. Sure, a lot of sexist stuff is said, but I think a majority of it is said nonchalantly because people are used to it, and there's little malice behind it. Do I think its marketable? Hell no. Do I think its in Twitch's interest to promote it? No.

Fact it the FGC has more to gain from Twitch than the other way round. And that's what stings many of these guys. Its about time someone exposes the double standard in the FGC like the FGC likes to put so many people on blast. Hold dat L.
 
I don't know why you guys are going in on people for saying "fuck that guy." I mean it's not like if he said the same thing about Starcraft or whatever that you wouldn't have people reacting the same way.
 
sephi22 said:
No. Fuck you. You cannot have it both ways. You don't want to 'go esports', you don't want to censor yourself, you don't want to move away from your roots, you don't want to dampen your hype. That's perfectly fine. But then don't expect the same kind of treatment e-sports gets.
Click to expand...

Yup. And honestly, the posturing about "keeping it real" is just that - posturing. It's the same sort of argument that people use when they complain about "political correctness" when what they're really complaining about is "I don't get to act like a raw ass in public without people looking at me sideways."

There's a LOONG way from "being a boring choirboy" to "The Coalition of Real Niggaz."

Besides which, the idea that somehow playing fighting games is some legit gangsta shit is fucking hilarious. It's fantasizing and sublimation at its worst, because the gulf between how hard you WANT to be and what you're actually DOING is fucking amazing. What you want to be is Lil B. What you are is a guy with a fightstick playing video games all day. There's no need to conflate the two.

The idea that this fake-gangsta attitude is somehow necessary to the success of fighting games as a scene is false as hell.

Warpticon said:
What don't I like? Enlighten me.
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You're the one who has the fuckin problem with it. You tell me what you don't like instead of just pouting at me and calling me stupid. Explain yourself, don't ask me to do it for you, especially if you already don't like where I'm coming from.
 
I honestly think that there's a lot of people in the FGC that do deeply care about how we're viewed and try to correct that view. When I think about what makes the FGC raw, this is it, this exposed nature of the scene. Where nothing gets brushed under the rug. The ugly stuff gets out, and I think that's really good.

I don't get that impression from eSports at all.

P.S. I think I recall the Twitch TV CEO commenting on a specific streamer about his use of racial slurs. But apparently he's just an idiot, but the FGC is racist.
 
Lost Fragment said:
I don't know why you guys are going in on people for saying "fuck that guy." I mean it's not like if he said the same thing about Starcraft or whatever that you wouldn't have people reacting the same way.
Click to expand...

Do the Starcraft streamers that get promoted act the same way as some guys in the FGC? If yes, then the FGC's complaints are perfectly legit. But I don't watch SC/DoTA streams except for the big tournaments and those are pretty tame.
 
sephi22 said:
Do the Starcraft streamers that get promoted act the same way as some guys in the FGC? If yes, then the FGC's complaints are perfectly legit. But I don't watch SC/DoTA streams except for the big tournaments and those are pretty tame.
Click to expand...

I don't know if the players would act that way, but random forum people for sure.

You know why they wouldn't say "fuck that guy"? Because they're getting paid. Same reason the Twitch CEO wouldn't say that shit about LoL or SC.
 
Lost Fragment said:
I don't know if the players would act that way, but random forum people for sure.

You know why they wouldn't say "fuck that guy"? Because they're getting paid. Same reason the Twitch CEO wouldn't say that shit about LoL or SC.
Click to expand...
The first part of your post contradicts the second part.

Who cares what forum people say?
The accusations of the sexism, homophobia etc. in the FGC are not because of forum people.

If SC/MOBA people are acting a fool on stream and Twitch is turning a blind eye, then sure, you have a point. But it doesn't seem like you do. One wrong word spoken in SC leads to forum controversy, sponsors whipping players, negative publicity due to BM (Bad Manners) so I don't think its as common as the FGC.
 
Many highly visible FGC figures, including people like James Chen and the Cannons, have spoken out several times against sexist and racially insensitive behavior and it has also been prohibited on several streams, so it's pretty stupid to say that the community hasn't made any effort to self-correct.
 
toddhunter said:
Things can always be better.

However step one for Twitch would be to make sign ups actually at least authenticate a real email address first. It doesn't have to be GAF level of over-sight, but they could make some effort into making their viewers accountable for their comments.

Then move people like Fanatiq to youtube and we are sweet.
Click to expand...

That'd be a decent start. Not bad.

Not+bad.gif


soakrates said:
Many highly visible FGC figures, including people like James Chen and the Cannons, have spoken out several times against sexist and racially insensitive behavior and it has also been prohibited on several streams, so it's pretty stupid to say that the community hasn't made any effort to self-correct.
Click to expand...

You're right. There have been efforts. I shouldn't say there haven't been. And I namechecked Spooky, Keits, and MarkMan, and you're absolutely right, Chen, & David should have been namechecked too. But speaking out is one thing. The behavior isn't really shifting, is it? What's happening is there are a group of people in the scene who would like for it to grow, and are advocating for, and trying to, behave accordingly. But they're being dwarfed by the people who love to use the word "community" as a badge, and an excuse to keep doing the self-destructive, harmful, limiting, marginalizing shit they've been doing. And the level of influence one group has on the other is, honestly, not much. Which is fucking unfortunate.

edit: Todd's post below gets at some really good points, too. Good stuff.
 
sephi22 said:
Do the Starcraft streamers that get promoted act the same way as some guys in the FGC? If yes, then the FGC's complaints are perfectly legit. But I don't watch SC/DoTA streams except for the big tournaments and those are pretty tame.
Click to expand...

I hear what you guys are saying and for the most part I agree. I don't see it as a great discussion topic though, because the guys you are arguing with are pretty head in the sand about it all and it is a bit of a dead end.

Having said that...

I think the important difference to note is streaming a fgc weekly or set of casuals is a lot different then filming some casual starcraft play. For something like starcraft or LoL or even COD? It is just one guy or girl sitting in their house playing online and generally chatting away. It is a very low stress and low hype environment to produce content from and is something that can be controlled.

For the FGC? Because of the offline nature it is typically a room of guys in close proximity with all sorts of real life egos and testosterone levels flowing. This introduces all sorts of complicated variables to what is making it onto the stream. People will feel the need to be funny, or make themselves look better or put others down to build themselves up and increase their chances of having sex. It isn't much to do with fighting games, it is just what happens when you get a room full of young guys.

If you cut out all that on twitch and just had majors and guys streaming at home (and I don't mean the fgtv house)? I don't think there would be much difference in behaviour or streaming issues and a lot of the problem would go away (in regards to twitch).

Now this isn't suggesting we do nothing about it because it is too hard, far from it. But what it takes is constant leadership to pull people aside and state that "this shit isn't on stop it". Some regions will have people like that, others will not and this will change over time. But I think as long as people are discussing and acknowledging issues, steps at least can be taken to work in the right direction.
 
The idea that the FGC hasn't hit big time because people won't stop saying naughty words is silly, though.

There's a lot of things working in the background for games that are "esports", and we have no idea if what they're doing is sustainable anyways. Even the most abrasive communities (MOBAs, COD, etc) get their day in the esports spotlight if someone wants it badly enough.
 



Watch it here
http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive (primary stream)
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp (secondary stream)



Schedule (click for big ass version)

On Thursaday May 23rd there will be a preshow on the evelup stream at 9pm CDT

All times are CDT


Brackets/Pools
http://ufgtus.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/rptmasterpooldirectory2.pdf(pools)

People who will probably be there
EMP|Tom Brady
Mike Ross
AGE|Wolfkrone
AGE|NYChrisG
AGE|SnakeEyez
AGE|Flash Metroid
EG|Justin Wong
EG|Floe
Ranmasama
AB|Stone
Kinderparty
Kerahime
AGE|Sabre
Kane Blueriver
BT|Viscant
FNEX.EMP.RG|K-Brad
XAN|DJ Huoshen
Perfect Legend
CORN|JDM
TS|Sp00ky
TFA.RZR|OMG Itz Andre
LU|Alex Valle
CCG|Air, RZR|Latif
UFGT|BananaKen
CEO|CJ Truth
Lord Knight

Trophies



Will be given out to the winners of UMVC3, AE, Divekick, Injustice, SFxT, TTT2, KOF, P4A, and the Mystery Game Tournament
 
That looks like a chunk of the Fortress of Solitude. I dig it.

edit: Wait, is that the actual OP or a rough draft?

call_kotaku said:
The idea that the FGC hasn't hit big time because people won't stop saying naughty words is silly, though.
Click to expand...

Nah, it's not "naughty words." Nobody's catching feelings because people say "Shit" or "Fuck" or "ass." Profanity isn't really the problem. Sexism/Homophobia/Misogyny/Racism are problems. Jokes about statutory rape are problems. Someone saying "He got FUCKED UP" is not a problem. Someone pairing a homophobic slur with the phrase "Got his shit pushed in" is a problem.

Naughty Words isn't what I'm talking about, or what the Twitch CEO is talking about.
 
sephi22 said:
The first part of your post contradicts the second part.

Who cares what forum people say?
The accusations of the sexism, homophobia etc. in the FGC are not because of forum people.

If SC/MOBA people are acting a fool on stream and Twitch is turning a blind eye, then sure, you have a point. But it doesn't seem like you do. One wrong word spoken in SC leads to forum controversy, sponsors whipping players, negative publicity due to BM (Bad Manners) so I don't think its as common as the FGC.
Click to expand...

There's def been stuff like that with eSports. Maybe somebody can find the video of SC or LoL or whoever dudes with the guy in the wheelchair.
 
FatboyRoberts said:
See, this is what I'm getting at with my response earlier today, and my similar posts previously in the year: This shit isn't a community. If it was a community, you wouldn't respond to the CEO of twitch saying "you guys act really sexist/racist/homophobic A LOT" by getting pissed off at him and trying to say "Yeah, but look at all the OTHER sexist/racist/homophobes, why you gotta single US out?"

You'd try to FIX YOUR SHIT so he couldn't hit you with that anymore.

That's what an actual community would do. Instead, this community goes into defense mode, and simply tries to discredit what is pretty obviously by this point - looking at both that PA article and now the AMA both landing on the same day - a decently ingrained conception of this "community."

The "community" never really tries to change itself. It just tries to deflect the negative rep it's earned and tires itself out raging about how unfair it all is before retreating to the status quo. This "community" wants all the benefits of being one without actually putting in the work to be looked at as one. Putting in that work requires the sort of self-correction that people like Spooky does when it comes to knowing what is harmful and cutting it out. Same with Keits. Same with MarkMan.

Blowing this guy up for his shitty mobile site? Perfectly alright. Blowing him up for the tech problems the site constantly has at the worst moments? Have at it. But when the CEO of Twitch specifically thinks your "community" is gross? Maybe there's fuckin something to it.

And there is.
Click to expand...

I see where you're coming from, and agree with a lot of it.


However, when was the last time there was some overbearingly racist/sexist/homophobic speech on a stream? Maybe it's because I haven't been devoting as much time as watching as I used to, but I can't really think of anything.


IMO, can't really attribute it to any individual or group. It's mostly the stereotype associated with this scene post cross assault.
 
FatboyRoberts said:
You're right. There have been efforts. And I namechecked Spooky, Keits, and MarkMan, and you're absolutely right, Chen, & David should have been namechecked too. But speaking out is one thing. The behavior isn't really shifting, is it? What's happening is there are a group of people in the scene who would like for it to grow, and are advocating for, and trying to, behave accordingly. But they're being dwarfed by the people who love to use the word "community" as a badge, and an excuse to keep doing the self-destructive, harmful, limiting, marginalizing shit they've been doing. And the level of influence one group has on the other is, honestly, not much. Which is fucking unfortunate.
Click to expand...
Having well-known and highly respected community figures set an example is one of the better starting points, I'd say. And the occurrences of "offensive" comments and such have fallen pretty dramatically from what I can tell.

As for the behavior shifting, that depends largely on what you mean. In truth, lot of the crap that gets past the radar on streams and such is rather aberrational compared to what actually goes on at tournaments and other events. For the most part, it's just a bunch of gamer geeks hanging out and participating in a hobby they enjoy. One problem the FGC is experiencing (which is kind of a good problem to have, in a way) is that stream viewership far outnumbers actual event attendance. Because of this, stream tomfoolery gets way more face time and traction than the general tournament atmosphere. Yes, there is inevitably going to be tough-guy posturing, but it's usually harmless and all in good fun.
 
soakrates said:
but it's usually harmless and all in good fun.
Click to expand...

That phrase is usually the source of the problem though. "Harmless and all in good fun" very much depends on who you are and sometimes where you are coming from personally. When it is on stream? You can't control who is watching and how they might react even if everybody in the room is "ok" with it (which I don't think is often the case anyway, just that people will not speak up).

From there though we are getting into education and regional differences and all sorts of cans of worms. Even on Gaf we have seen recently issues with somebody using a word which is very problematic in certain regions and contexts, but not so much in others.
 
Karsticles said:
@SolarPowered:

GGs. I think your dream team has a lot of potential. Morrigan has to carry the weight until you get armored Hsien-ko, and then Amaterasu becomes nigh unstoppable. I wouldn't spend meter on anything but safe DHCs to keep the team coherent. Once you lose one character, the team starts to struggle. It's not a top tier team or anything, but it's definitely competent.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think this team is not for me. I don't enjoy playing Morrigan or Hsien-Ko in this game anymore. I'll look into two new partners for Amateratsu eventually. Doom is looking more enticing at the moment.
 
toddhunter said:
That phrase is usually the source of the problem though. "Harmless and all in good fun" very much depends on who you are and sometimes where you are coming from personally. When it is on stream? You can't control who is watching and how they might react even if everybody in the room is "ok" with it (which I don't think is often the case anyway, just that people will not speak up).

From there though we are getting into education and regional differences and all sorts of cans of worms. Even on Gaf we have seen recently issues with somebody using a word which is very problematic in certain regions and contexts, but not so much in others.
Click to expand...
I mainly meant shit-talk between players, not potentially offensive or hurtful comments made on stream, or even off stream. Obviously people should always be mindful of who might be around whenever they decide to say something off-color.
 
DryEyeRelief said:
However, when was the last time there was some overbearingly racist/sexist/homophobic speech on a stream? Maybe it's because I haven't been devoting as much time as watching as I used to, but I can't really think of anything.

IMO, can't really attribute it to any individual or group. It's mostly the stereotype associated with this scene post cross assault.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you can call this "overbearingly sexist", but all I can think of is when Lee Chung is on the mic talking about getting his sausage wet. Or whenever the stream camera zooms in on a chick in the crowd. Oh, and I guess Dnyce.

Nothing too bad ever really happens at majors though. None that I can remember.
 
Fighting games don't grow up because of the nature of the genre, and other factors like people said

for example, lots of friends who don't even know what a twitch is play lol and to a lesser extent dota, it's the popular game and is making money

If the FGC start to clean up his act, it will be really cool, since it needs lots of changes, but it will not make the genre popular, but at the same time, could help it a bit
 
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