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[Xater]

Not to bring up a tired comment, but publishers were more than happy to ignore the Wii.

Don't put anything past publishers.

And I am more than happy to abandon any company who does shit like this. I have other hobbies as well.

 

[madmackem]

I think Sony can also pitch this to publishers in a way to keep their business.

Sony allowing used sales, and MS not, allows publishers to do some nice A:B comparisons based on new Vs used sales, maybe actually allowing them to figure out whether used sales really do impact revenues.

MS' approach is good for Publisher 'A' of the game being traded in, but removes money from the consumer which may be spent on other games, so may negatively impact Publisher B of the game the consumer may otherwise have bought. Having two systems live in the market allows some data to be gathered on that.

Isnt there a quote from the ceo of gamestop saying 70% of trade in goes on buying new?. I know hes not exactly impartial but even if the figure is 50% thats a massive chunk of new game revenue gone over night.

 

[Impeccable]

So is this the official stance, like will other video game websites be able to contact Microsoft and get details or will they get, "More details to come later."

 

[mrklaw]

If retail cut was as little as 10%...I doubt Gamestop would be very happy about this and tweeting that everything was OK, and promoting preorders on the system. I think they'd at least have cause to hesitate on it.

if retail cut was that low, they wouldn't have the margin to actually pay anything for trade ins, so consumers simply won't trade anything in. The entire system would collapse

 

[Wolves Evolve]

A terrible nightclub with a terrible aggressive bouncer and terrible drinks, but with some DJs you sometimes enjoy. That's what I'm seeing.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

So what? Who lends £40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

Your world is sad to me. Your friends (if you have any), but be the worst of the worst.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

How are these games being tracked as to which one is which though? Surely they aren't printing a unique disc for every single game.

 

[Toki767]

Not that it'll happen, but the most interesting scenario that could even come out of this would be if most retailers didn't agree to this and just refused to stock the Xbox One.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

True, but a pub could use an activation system that requires the buyer to go online for a once off activation anyway, treat the game like an online game. I mean, this was even technically possible on PS3.

I don't think Sony can mandate a universal system though, if the system 'can be enjoyed with an internet connection at all'. That supposes there will be some chunk of games that don't need the net at least.

And that's the vital difference - individual publishers may choose to employ those elements but if it's not a universal system on Sony's hardware then these things are much easier to avoid, as a consumer.

 

[AzaK]

Seems fair.

No fucking way. MS and the publisher deserve none of it. It's been sold. Do you really think movies, books, clothes and houses should be subject to the sane.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

This could seriously hurt GAME's bottom line. They make so little money on used as it is. MS will kill retail if they do this.

How is this supposed to work for rental outfits like Gamefly?

Yeah, what about rentals?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

And I am more than happy to abandon any co pant who does shit like this. I have other hobbies as well.

Absolutely. A good ol' kick in the arse is what's needed at this point I feel. Should have happened when online passes were introduced, but alas...

 

[RyougaSaotome]

Lololololololol.

As somebody who lives in Japan? Nope.gif

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

So not only does this mean you will get less for your games to make up the retailers losses but it will confirm the always online thing to be basically true (check in every 24 hours, what happens if you unplug it when you go on holiday?).

Also let me guess. This "feature" will only be in America at first.

The more that is announced about this the more it feels like if you are in America you get a raw deal and everywhere else gets a terrible deal.

I cant wait till Sony announce there own system of allowing you to trade in games. I will most likely laugh either way (good or bad).


edit:
On the face of it it sounds like it will stop private sales, borrowing and rentals. However they might authorise a site like ebay to handle private, they might make a bunch of games with codes specifically to work for renting (a code that will allow access for all xbox's or a certain amount of time per account) but I think borrowing is straight out of luck.

This whole "next gen" is going to be a mess I think.

 

[massoluk]

What do you people means by "Great" and "Fair"? Sounds like no more selling used games on ebay or to my friends, still sounds pretty bad to me.

 

[Baby Milo]

god damn i hope Sony isn't part of this system

 

[Aostia]

I really like that Sony will clarify definetly the PS4 approach to this matter, so I can be sure to have a "third party" console to put aside my Wii U.

 

[ConfusedCat]

Elephant in the room is region coding. The systems won't region code because it won't matter, the cloud will do it for them

EU Codes -> EU Server
US Codes -> US Server


i guaranfuckingtee if you import a game it won't activate.


companies seem to love globalization until they have to deal with it. and then they do everything to screw the consumer whilst keeping the globalization benefits

its amazing (and it isn't just gaming this applies to). Its become such a problem that Australia enacted a consumer protection law that is the harshest on retailers in the world. Are not allowed to refuse refunds for any reason, are not allowed to sell things not 'fit for purpose; and all the rights are with the consumer. So if you buy a Xbone game in Australia you will have the right to ask for a refund and the retailer cannot refuse it.

Xbox one will be illegal in Australia, 90% of it so far anyway. If a retail by law must be able to refund a game, the Xbox one ecosystem needs to deal with it, or never come here and give it up for Sony.

to give you an idea, EA was forced to give simcity refunds via retailers after it was found not fit for purpose. The law is harsh in Australia, $100,000's fines apply for breaches.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

This is so dumb. I feel for devs that get cut out of second hand sales and I almost always buy games New when given the chance. However this is NOT the solution to the problem. the game industry created and enhanced the problem buy increasing the costs of games more and more. You'd have a lot less used game purchasing and trading in if games were $20 or less like other consumable content. It's why steam games or itunes purchases, dvd movies, cds, etc people buy are ok with less flexibility of selling/buying used. Why bother since you won't save much AND 10 years from now I can still get these items for sale in retail.

This year as the gen closed out I bought a lot of games used on eBay, amazon,etc to fill out my collections. Not because I wanted to avoid giving money to the game makers BUT IT WAS THE ONLY OPTION LEFT FOR OUT OF PRINT GAMES.

The funny thing is if publishers/Microsoft REALLY wanted the cut they could have done this without all the other BS of limiting lending, trading, private sales. Just have the Preferred used game sellers like GameStop, etc forced to pay the license kickback and leave all this account hassle, and consumer restrictions alone. There's no way the private used game market is big enough to worry about. It's the used game retail stores they could target.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

If there's no competition for second hand sales even with this procedure, shit is going to be worthless

Say Gamestop buys in

You buy your $70 BF4, play it, get tired 1-2 months in return it to GS and they offer only $25-$30 for tops
They turn around sell it for say $60-$65 "Pre-Owned"
So MS and Pub get a cut from your resell say $5-$10, then when that new used copy sells get another $10-$20
They just made close to $100 off one copy of BF4, repeat

This may look great, but if there is no competition from other retailers, Gamestop can force any TIV (trade-in-value) MS/Pub asks it to be
Pub knows people are trading in their shitacular title and ask MS to force the resell to be $10-$20, even though title is less than a month old and still selling $70 new
Forcing GS to lower it and any other retailers using the program/service

GS had competition in the form of Best Buy and their 100% Trade-In's, really started eating into GS monopoly/cash cow, GS challenged and rose TIV's across the board, started adding those same deals with twist that still benefited them

So MS + Pubs + GS/Retailers that want to get in on this will literally hold hostage the market, the users will be at the mercy of their prices

There's a reason second hand sales have checks and balances, and so many avenues to sell your item, competition breeds good prices, deals, etc.
Collusion on the other hand will stagnant the market, less purchases, might even detract newer purchases

That's how gamestop trading works today minus the publisher kick back

 

[AzaK]

Seems fair.

No fucking way. MS and the publisher deserve none of it. It's been sold. Do you really think movies, books, clothes and houses should be subject to the same. What about loaning or selling yourself?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

And I am more than happy to abandon any co pant who does shit like this. I have other hobbies as well.

This is what a lot of people don't understand.
Ultimately, the market in Japan and EU, and consumer rights legislation will be a major obstacle for publishers.

EA was also not present during the PS4 reveal iirc.

 

[szaromir]

47% of revenue made on consoles by third party publishers was made on Sony's platforms. According to data compiled by my bank.

That's not true for any of the western publishers (47% or higher).

 

[Moral Panic]

But that does sound like I can't sell games privately. That is still shitty.

Also lending a game to a friend is still impossible.

Yep. No private sales = still a shitty deal.

 

[TheContact]

I feel like Sony is going to get pressured into this too

 

[Linkified]

Absolute bullshit.

How can a movie, music and book industry survive with ubiquitous pre-owned sales, if gaming can't?

I really fucking hope XBone fails. Hard. Even worse than Vita.

The movie, music and book industries would love to stop content being sold on eBay - or at least getting a cut of the sale - hence their use of more digital markets to move people to those new digital platforms with the excuse of convenience.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

With all those ppl taking a cut, the prices paid to gamers for used games will have to go down a lot. ALOT.

Mhmm. And that means less money in consumer's pockets to buy new software. Market crash incoming.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

That's how gamestop trading works today minus the publisher kick back

But right now used game prices are pushed down by eBay and Amazon Marketplace, GameStop have to react to this, even if it's slow, the price of their used games comes down to match the direct sale/commission based competitors. In the scenario proposed there would be absolutely no downwards pressure on prices for new or used gaming.

 

[kmag]

To be perfectly honest, it's not the worst system. They could tweak it to allow short term loans between friends (say 3 days during which time the game on your system become unplayable) but I doubt the publishers would agree to that.

 

[Toki767]

I feel like Sony is going to get pressured into this too

I think when push comes to shove, publishers aren't going to ignore Sony if more people buy a PS4 than an Xbox One.

Sony doesn't need to do this at all.

 

[Cartman86]

I would take getting rid of that 24 hour limit over being able to sell your physical disc that's not really physical media.

 

[Boy Wander]

god damn i hope Sony isn't part of this system

Kind of missed a lot of the detail around this with PS4 (or isn't there any yet)? Does PS4 force install for physical media? If so, then its simply a case of no disc, no play?

Sony and Nintendo should strike while the iron is hot and just come straight out and say 'You know all of this BS around used games for Xbone? You'll get none of that with us - things will work as they do today".

 

[The Incarnation]

wow, so no more selling on eBay? Instead of killing gamestop they strengthen gamestop?

Assuming people even bother to trade in and buy games at the level they did before. Other that its going to put them out of business.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

What about the poor, small independent stores? Poor guys have it rough already.

 

[Cyborg]

So the greedy gamestops of the world get their second hand sales but consumer lending/selling/giving game to friend is screwed ?

True, amazing how people consider this as a positive thing! Damn, where did the gamers go .......

 

[Pug]

What I can't get my head round is why MS would do this if the knew that Sony was going with an open policy. It would be suicide in terms of retail and more importantly as this is what both publishers and developers wanted it would make no sense if Sony hadn't agreed to a system also. Hopefully at E3 the fog regarding both systems will be lifted.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Oh, this is bad, bad.

Hope Sony doesn't do something that stupid.

 

[GraveRobberX]

That's how gamestop trading works today minus the publisher kick back

Yeah, but the line afterwards means to show what would happen from the new publisher kickback thought process we are thinking and what most likely business are going to want

 

[BlazingDarkness]

How are these games being tracked as to which one is which though? Surely they aren't printing a unique disc for every single game.

When you install it, 'the cloud' recognizes it and attaches it to your account - therefore when you take that same disc into MS certified retailers 'the cloud' will wipe it from your account. This is why the console needs to connect to 'the cloud' every day.

 

[AzaK]

The movie, music and book industries would love to stop content being sold on eBay - or at least getting a cut of the sale - hence their use of more digital markets to move people to those new digital platforms with the excuse of convenience.

So would the company who made my car but that's not the way it has worked. This shit needs to be nipped in the bud now. Sadly people will suck it up and keep on trucking.

 

[megashock5]

Who cares if it is wiped from your account? You no longer have the fucking game.

The question a lot of folks have is this:
If the system needs to check every 24 hours to see if you own games, will those servers still be running 10-20 years from now? And, if not, do you now own a bunch of coasters?

Again, I'm talking about games you supposedly "own".

May not be a big deal for some people, but others like playing old games. I still play Genesis and PS1 games.

 

[Rebel Leader]

god damn i hope Sony isn't part of this system

Japan and Europe are heavily pre-owned IIRC

The question a lot of folks have is this:
If the system needs to check every 24 hours to see if you own games, will those servers still be running 10-20 years from now? And, if not, do you now own a bunch of coasters?

Again, I'm talking about games you supposedly "own".

May not be a big deal for some people, but others like playing old games. I still play Genesis and PS1 games.

They closed OX(original xbox) servers. So they may close Xbone's severs in that time

 

[ebullientprism]

Still bullshit. Cant believe people are going "Sounds fair".

And what happens in countries where there is no MS official support? Where people buy and sell on places like ebay and the like?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

revenue from this could be significant enough that Sony might be left with no choice but to do the same thing, or be left out from significant revenues.

MS is basically gifting the entire world except North America to Sony on a silver platter. I'm thinking Sony won't have any issues with revenues from the PS4.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

This isn't as bad as I thought it might be in my end as a consumer at least in the direct sense, as there is no fee. Still no idea how rentals would work here though.
However, MS could seriously fuck over and change the landscape of games retail by doing this. Places like GameStop and GAME could go out of business, depending on their cut. You also limit competition by restricting who are authorised resellers.

They don't deserve a cut, this still isn't good for the industry.

 

[Footos22]

Blurays never get scratched.

Tell that to my 2 year old daughter who loves her disney Blurays

 

[MrDaravon]

I don't really ever buy used games unless it's a weird situation where that's the only option, but I do use Gamefly pretty extensively, so I still don't give a fuck if I can't rent or sell games MS.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Bottom line: SURE guys, you can still buy and sell your preplayed games*. See? Nothing to worry!



*You just have to go through us to do it.

 

[neojubei]

This controversy bothered me the least out of all of it. Devs deserve their money. Games aren't cars. It would have been nice to actually have an answer planned though when someone asks it 10 minutes after your show.

Games are not cars is a dumb argument. You might as well impose this Microsoft DRM on DVD movies, music CDs, college textbooks, second handbooks and might as well throw cars in the mix so car manufacturers can get a cut of the second hand market as well. If I sell my laptop or smartphone or watch shouldn't the same be applied to those sales too?

Why the hell is some people who are not developers or publishers concerned about them getting a cut from second hand sales? If I paid 60 bucks for the game I should sell it at any price and not have to give anyone a percentage of my sale because the publisher already has my money from the initial sale.

I don't know how anyone can even support this.

 

[ChryZ]

Less shitty is still shitty, ultimately this is still very anti consumer ... you're their bitch, getting xboned, no matter how you spin it.