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[catapult37]

To those comparing this to Steam: I am a happy PC gamer, but only because I can buy games at $5-10 eventually. That works out to what I typically would lose if I bought a new console game, played a month or so, then sold on ebay. Though it really does suck that I can't clean out my old unplayed backlog for a few extra dollars.

In short, part of my excitement for a new console was the ability to sell my games again.

Steam's DRM is honestly just as anti-consumer as the Xbone, but it's heavily offset by the frequency and quality of sales + competition among different digital channels. (so to the other thread asking if there is a price on your rights: ideally no, but given no other choice, it helps a lot).

 

[RetroStu]

Not without giving your account details to another users box so they can play it with your account in theirs.

I love my good friends but I don't want my account on 10 Xbones.

Could it be possible that they have a friends list where anyone on your friends list are kind of linked together so you could lend them a game and they could play it as long as they are on your friends list?

 

[rpmurphy]

I assume it works this way:
You trade it in at Gamestop, they pay the fees to MS and resell it.

You give/loan the game to your friend, your friend pays the fee to MS himself.

That's stupid. It's the anti-consumer route of doing this if they force you or the other party to pay. I would have imagined they would have done this:
1) Deactivate a game from your account, which returns you a redeem code.
2a) To sell the game, bring the disc and code to a used game store. The store verifies on MS's website that the code is still active. You sell both the game and code.
2b) To do a private transaction, do the same as above.
2c) For online sales, sellers can provide the potential buyer with the hash of the code, which the buyer can verify on MS's website that it is active.
3) ???
4) Not as anti-consumer!

Oh but this means that MS and publishers don't get a cut so I guess that's that.

 

[water_wendi]

If you think Microsoft will suddenly have sales as good as Steam you are fooling yourself. The sales are so good many of my friends online and in real life will just purchase a game for 1-10 bucks and gift it to a friend to play with.

This will never happen on the XBO. I won't be able to lend my coworker my copy of Bioshock to let them see if it's wotrth a purchase or not for them with how this system operates. Some of you are blind to what has been a mainstay in console gaming forever. The power to trade a game between friends, or influence a person on something they never tried before will now die outside of demos. I'm voting with my wallet you do what you want man. Hope everything in XBO is as great as you hope it is.

Steam sales are overrated. The sale prices are good but usually when i check.. like right this second..

.. you can find better prices in retail stores.

So the Xbone gives greater leeway with used games so its an abomination but Valve gives consumers less rights and its heaven on earth? Whatever.

edit:

Bioshock PC price for those that champion the low price DD future.

 

[Fox Mulder]

So this does nothing to the industry's evil villian gamestop except kick some money back to MS, but fucks consumers more by taking their options away.

Awesome.

 

[Duxxy3]

I'm going to argue that the success of failure of Xbox One will have nothing to do with this, ultimately. Games will go digital only and trades in will become a thing of the past in our lifetime (and a lot sooner than people seem to expect), and I don't believe it's going to kill the industry.

The infrastructure isn't in place for that. Not even close.

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

So you CAN sell Used Games and play Used Games.

Another negative to scratch off from the list.

System sounds fair and perfect.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

How would that work offline? A small, rewritable portion of the disc for that purpose?

An RFID/NFC chip like FeliCa with encrypted, rewritable permissions. At least that's what the patent said.

 

[p3tran]

I'm going to argue that the success of failure of Xbox One will have nothing to do with this, ultimately. Games will go digital only and trades in will become a thing of the past in our lifetime (and a lot sooner than people seem to expect), and I don't believe it's going to kill the industry.

well I really hope that the failure of xbox will have to do both with this policy, and the policy of kinect "ad-reader" enforcement.
that would be really beneficial for the industry imo, and I hope it happens

 

[Klocker]

Yeah you give up a lot to not have to switch a disc. I much rather switch a disc than lose all rights to my game.

Do you work for Ms? I see you defending them in every thread. You try to tell me the cloud had nothing to do with drm. Let that is just Ms or spin.

Anyway you are fling a terrible job...

no I volunteer for humans for common sense and reason, not work for Knee Jerk Reaction & Paranoia Inc. like some here.


Some of the crap here the last few days is ridiculous including your repeating of DRM Trojan horse

 

[Con_Smith]

All games are going to be release price forever on the Xbone? i doubt that. Below $10, who knows? i do know that any new release on Steam that isnt an indie title is not going for under $10.

Games on Demand games take forever to drop in price. Even longer to get sale price. Don't even get me started with XBLA.

 

[ConfusedCat]

That's stupid. It's the anti-consumer route of doing this if they force you or the other party to pay. I would have imagined they would have done this:
1) Deactivate a game from your account, which returns you a redeem code.
2a) To sell the game, bring the disc and code to a used game store. The store verifies on MS's website that the code is still active. You sell both the game and code.
2b) To do a private transaction, do the same as above.
2c) For online sales, sellers can provide the potential buyer with the hash of the code, which the buyer can verify on MS's website that it is active.
3) ???
4) Not as anti-consumer!

Oh but this means that MS and publishers don't get a cut so I guess that's that.

clever idea. This already happens with IMEI and phones

 

[Angelus Errare]

Overlooked Steam vs Console fact number #4782: To develop/sell a retail game on consoles there is a license fee. On PC, developing for the platform is free. This is one of the reasons you get cheaper deals on PC.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

The infrastructure isn't in place for that. Not even close.

Think how far we've come in 15 years. You think in 15 years we're still going to be buying stupid little pieces of plastic with game data on them in stores? Come on.

 

[dragonelite]

Steam sales are overrated. The sale prices are good but usually when i check.. like right this second..

.. you can find better prices in retail stores.

So the Xbone gives greater leeway with used games so its an abomination but Valve gives consumers less rights and its heaven on earth? Whatever.

You can still buy the retail version and have it locked to your account like the digital on would be.

 

[MasLegio]

If anyone has access to valid documentation or sources regarding this please contact me.

I wish to report this illegal practice to the European Commission.

 

[LCfiner]

I forgot that Sony is doing the same thing when it comes to games on disc. The game has to install to the hard drive so I wonder if they'll have a similar system in place as well otherwise one person could buy it and chain mail the shit out of that disc.

Sony hasn't said that games need to be installed to the hard drive. Also, even if they do, the disc could still work as the "key" and not a link to an online account.

They have said that the PS4 can work offline totally.

 

[Papacheeks]

No I have not ever worked in a game shop and as you say you worked in management at one I'm sure you have a deeper understanding of this subject, however you don't seem to actually have a point relevant to what I'm saying. At the very least you aren't making it clear what your point is.

I don't quite understand, how do the retailers take a hit? With XB1 they will pay you less for games while charging more or the same amount for used games. They've got no reason not to. They'll cover any loss from the publisher/microsoft taking a cut this way.
If you're implying that they are taking a hit in this gen then I'm really confused. Unless of course you're talking about greater competition from online stores etc.. In which case it's hardly relevant to the topic at hand.

What are talking about then. I was implying that retailers take a hit on games sold, and on actual new products most of the time up till recently. Now they have incentives by company's and publishers to sell their games NEW. But like I said where they make pure profit for the store is through used games sales, used accessories, systems ect. Retailers are getting hit by Microsoft selling used, because of the percentage of the used sale that MS and the Publisher take out. But this is from a not so great credited source MVC.

I'm merely saying as it is now how retailers make money outside of used game sales, since publishers and such are making the player buy a pass to play a used game. Most player's now know this and there for do not buy certain used games. So retailers have found other ways to make profits in the gaming category. Which I explained.

 

[evolution]

I use gamefly, sounds like I'm screwed. Sounds like people that work at gamefly are screwed

 

[RetroStu]

Not to different? Can I trade games with my brother or sell a game to a co-worker? Can I sell a game on ebay? All this does is make gamestop even more of a monster and drive down trade in prices for used games. Might not even be worth trading in games on the Xbox one with gamestop having all the power. They can give even less for a game and you can't go any where else. So it becomes steam except you don't get the good stuff only the bad. So games become 59.99 rentals since trade in values will be so bad.

It would depend how much the 'fee' is for the publisher, if its only something like $5 then Gamestop etc will either just add a portion or the whole $5 to the price of the used game.
It just depends on how much the fee is.

As for the lending games bit, its a fucking bummer but there could be ways around that and i'm sure if a lot of casual gamers and parents etc (who don't follow the news as much as us) start complaining when they realise all this then i'm sure Microsoft will do something about it with an update or something.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

All games are going to be release price forever on the Xbone? i doubt that. Below $10, who knows? i do know that any new release on Steam that isnt an indie title is not going for under $10.

Games on Demand which is Microsoft's Digital Game service has imo mostly unreasonable prices, especially on older games. Games take an eternity to drop and it seems like sales are a rarity. I am not really all that familiar with Steam, so I cannot really formulate an opinion on that service. For example, I can get an X360 game for $20 online, Gamestop or practically anywhere I chose brand new or even cheaper used. On Games on Demand, it could be $30 or even $40. I bought COD2 from Circuit City for $20 brand new years ago and on Games On Demand, it was $40. I do not see anything changing with their digital service, especially if games could increase in price.

 

[Jucksalbe]

I actually don't think many people give a flying fuck about having to put the disc in. I sure don't

You either get up to change the disc or you get up to bend over for Microsoft. You have to get up either way.

 

[Moxx19]

EULA's can't override european and australian law

Agreed. As an Australian myself, hopefully they will smack down on MS just as hard as EU , these kinds of practices should be illegal. Fuck this, fuck MS, and fuck anyone who supports this anti-consumer policy.

Is it so much to ask to be able to play and share games without being treated like a criminal?

Especially when you consider the price of a game new over here is $100.

 

[Impeccable]

Is it in the astroturfing guide to ignore the good, hard posts that aren't easily dismissed?

 

[pahamrick]

Steam sales are overrated. The sale prices are good but usually when i check.. like right this second..

.. you can find better prices in retail stores.

So the Xbone gives greater leeway with used games so its an abomination but Valve gives consumers less rights and its heaven on earth? Whatever.

You're too much. Usually when we talk about Steam sales, it's the winner and summer sales. I could get Bioshock Infinite for PC right now for $40, not direct through steam but a copy that activates on Steam for the same price thanks to available competition.

 

[Joel Was Right]

So no private sale or borrowing.

Yep.

I'm out

 

[water_wendi]

Games on Demand which is Microsoft's Digital Game service has imo mostly unreasonable prices, especially on older games. I am not all that familiar with Steam, but it sounds more reasonable and fair to me. For example, I can get an X360 game for $20 online, Gamestop or practically anywhere I chose brand new or even cheaper used. On Games on Demand, it could be $30 or even $40. I bought COD2 from Circuit City for $20 brand new years ago and on Games On Demand, it was $40. I do not see anything changing with their digital service, especially if games could increase in price.

From what ive seen retail is almost always cheaper outside of hugely advertised sales like the Steam Summer Sale. i see no reason why this would change in the future.

 

[catapult37]

Steam sales are overrated. The sale prices are good but usually when i check.. like right this second..

.. you can find better prices in retail stores.

So the Xbone gives greater leeway with used games so its an abomination but Valve gives consumers less rights and its heaven on earth? Whatever.

edit:

Bioshock PC price for those that champion the low price DD future.

What a ridiculous argument. It's not on sale now, so Steam sales must suck! It got cold this winter so global warming is clearly BS. If you are patient the sales between Amazon/D2d/GMG/Steam always come through, frequently better than retail ever does. Competing channels are a huge part of this argument. (though I guess retail stores can compete on this? but that's always been the case and they rarely go as low as digital sales)

though as i said above, no one should argue that Steam's DRM is any less onerous. It's just I don't want that in my consoles thank you.

 

[Salaadin]

New games have new game prices. Old games and indie titles are priced accordingly on Steam. Does Live Arcade charge $59.99 for new indie releases? i dont know because i dont own a 360.

If you oppose the Xbone for its used games policy but support Steam, you need to reconsider your position because its flawed.

Youre looking at game prices in steam and none of the various ways to get the games outside of steam for low prices. Amazon and GMG also sell Steam titles. Nevermind the people selling their Never Settle Bundle codes on ebay for 30 bucks.

Like anything, if you shop around, you can catch a deal.
I got Tomb Raider 2013 for 35 bucks the day it came out. Bioshock Infinite cost me 30.00 a week after release. Deus Ex: HR was 37.99 the day it came out.

For the entire month of May, GMG is running a 20% off coupon code for any titles bought through them..including Steam activated ones.

You say my position is flawed. My wallet says otherwise.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Games on Demand which is Microsoft's Digital Game service has imo mostly unreasonable prices, especially on older games. I am not all that familiar with Steam, but it sounds more reasonable and fair to me. For example, I can get an X360 game for $20 online, Gamestop or practically anywhere I chose brand new or even cheaper used. On Games on Demand, it could be $30 or even $40. I bought COD2 from Circuit City for $20 brand new years ago and on Games On Demand, it was $40. I do not see anything changing with their digital service, especially if games could increase in price.

The issue here is who sets the prices. If publishers can set their own prices in Xbox Live, like they can on Steam, it has nothing to do with Microsoft. Valve don't sell you Borderlands 2 cheap out of the goodness of their hearts, it's the publisher who wants to do it. We don't know yet how it's going to work out on PS4 and Xbox One. But I think it's a stretch to imagine neither of them are going to compete with each other. They've both already tried their hands at Steam like sales on their previous platforms.

 

[Version 3.0]

As a solution for DD games, this is okay. I've proposed pretty much the same thing myself in the past. But for them to take away all the inherent benefits of physical media, and replace them with this is not acceptable, and under existing laws, is not legal. Obviously Microsoft feels they can make a case to the contrary. I certainly hope they have to.

 

[Duxxy3]

Think how far we've come in 15 years. You think in 15 years we're still going to be buying stupid little pieces of plastic with game data on them in stores? Come on.

That depends entirely on how fast the infrastructure is able to grow an improve.

Telecoms aren't going to do it because they are pushing everyone to wireless. Google can't do it because they simply don't have that ability. It will come down to the cable companies to upgrade our infrastructure...

which is why I'm not entirely convinced that an all digital future is imminent.

 

[RionaaM]

How many of you actually buy music CDs? I am just wondering. I bet all of you do.... right?

Bought all of this (sans the vinyls) during the last 2 months. What does that have to do with the topic being discussed in this thread?

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Agreed. As an Australian myself, hopefully they will smack down on MS just as hard as EU , these kinds of practices should be illegal. Fuck this, fuck MS, and fuck anyone who supports this anti-consumer policy.

Is it so much to ask to be able to play and share games without being treated like a criminal?

Especially when you consider the price of a game new over here is $100.

If this was against the law, PC retail games would have vanished years ago. You wouldn't be able to buy Windows in stores. You can, cos it's not.

 

[GQman2121]

I can't wait to see the prices on used games 12 months after they've been on the shelf. It almost seems like MS would be pricing the games that these select retailers would be selling.

Also, why does MS need a cut in any of this?

 

[RetroStu]

Think how far we've come in 15 years. You think in 15 years we're still going to be buying stupid little pieces of plastic with game data on them in stores? Come on.

I wouldn't be suprised if its still an option. Its not always about technology, there are many people who will always prefer physical media for their collections etc (and just wanting toa ctually own what they pay for), especially older people and i know quite a few people who just don't trust buying stuff online.

 

[ConfusedCat]

The issue here is who sets the prices. If publishers can set their own prices in Xbox Live, like they can on Steam, it has nothing to do with Microsoft. Valve don't sell you Borderlands 2 cheap out of the goodness of their hearts, it's the publisher who wants to do it. We don't know yet how it's going to work out on PS4 and Xbox One. But I think it's a stretch to imagine neither of them are going to compete with each other. They've both already tried their hands at Steam like sales on their previous platforms.

pro tip: nope. Like last time around they will have tiers of pricing

 

[MikeE21286]

What a ridiculous argument. It's not on sale now, so Steam sales must suck! It got cold this winter so global warming is clearly BS. If you are patient the sales between Amazon/D2d/GMG/Steam always come through, frequently better than retail ever does.

What he's saying is that on average steam sales are just that, limited-time sales. And on the average the retail prices often best Steam prices on many titles.

He articulated it poorly.

 

[Alphahawk]

What $35?

you sell the game like always. Gamestop resells it at used price but give a small cut to pub and ms

The article states that you have to pay a 35 pound fee to get the game relicensed to your own council. ( I don't have a pound button on my keyboard, so I just used a dollar sign) The cost you pay for the game is apparently deducted from the fee, but it's still bad.

 

[Delusibeta]

Woo, Microsoft astroturfers (and water_wendi, but s/he hates Steam so that's expected) trying to deflect criticism of their shit system by making fallacious arguments about Steam.

I mean, take a look at this shit:

UPDATE: Many readers are asking whether the £35 will be additional cost on top of the price of buying the game. No, we believe that the £35 figure – which is not our number, incidentally – would cover the entire transaction. If correct this would leave retail with a cut per sale of around £3.50.

That's right kids, used games with the XbOne now has similar margins to new games, if this is true they might as well not bother accepting used XbOne games, and we'll be talking new, £45 releases to have an immediate trade in value of at most £12. Shit for the consumer, shit for the retailer. No retailer in their right mind will sign up for this scheme.

 

[Hellsing321]

So basically get even more screwed on selling your games to Gamestop than you already do and have no option to get a fair market price for a game you purchased. Wonderful...

 

[Soroc]

Also, why does MS need a cut in any of this?

becuz of da Clowdz!

 

[Dave Meltzer]

pro tip: nope. Like last time around they will have tiers of pricing

Do you know this?

And that isn't even the issue. I'm sure I read recently the Alan Wake games are dirt cheap on Xbox Live right now. So clearly there's nothing preventing it from happening.

 

[CambriaRising]

Woo, Microsoft astroturfers (and water_wendi, but s/he hates Steam so that's expected) trying to deflect criticism of their shit system by making fallacious arguments about Steam.

ITS TOTALLY THE SAME THING THOUGH.

Spoiler

 

[Mashing]

I don't want any draconian infrastructure at all. I give fuck all about MS or the developers. I want to retain my consumer rights for the product I bought. That's why I am using the example of other media. You don#t want to see it there either so why should it be here? because you are so invested in this medium that you have a white knight complex for the developers? These guys will most likely not see that money anyway.

I both agree it's bad. I'm just tying to make a bad situation just a bit better. We disagree on that point and that is okay. We should just agree to disagree.

 

[Salaadin]

Steam sales are overrated. The sale prices are good but usually when i check.. like right this second..

.. you can find better prices in retail stores.

So the Xbone gives greater leeway with used games so its an abomination but Valve gives consumers less rights and its heaven on earth? Whatever.

edit:

Bioshock PC price for those that champion the low price DD future.

Steam activated.

 

[Papacheeks]

Then why the hell should I care about buying a more restrictive PC if the benefits aren't even better. That was my whole argument to begin with.

But consoles are always restrictive? They always have and always will, because it's meant to be in your living room, playing a movie or a game. The average mom and pop don;t want to fuck around with settings and shit, or load up BIG picture mode to play a game with their granddaughter. That's what console gaming was all about, back in the day.

I'm not saying A steam Box won' be successful, but it doesn't have the same allure that a console does from a brand the average knows.

You forget though Neogaf is huge, we don't count for all the majority of potential buyer's out there.

If anything we are less then 50%, we are the early adopters, the people who love New tech. Console's are not just for you, or us the Core, they also are for the average family. That's how it started with Atari and Nintendo.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Keep your pc, get a steam box, or what ever. Now that these new consoles are based on x86 and there are a lot of pc developers jumping to the ps4 platform, who says they can't put their game on pc?

 

[water_wendi]

Woo, Microsoft astroturfers (and water_wendi, but s/he hates Steam so that's expected) trying to deflect criticism of their shit system by making fallacious arguments about Steam.

i am a champion of consumers rights. If you oppose the Xbone on these grounds but think Steam is the best thing to happen to PCs ever, its in my opinion you are completely delusional.

Steam activated.

Yes.. i know that Valve has a complete stranglehold on almost all of PC gaming due to their free DRM. Your point?

 

[Cromat]

This sounds pretty reasonable

 

[Joel Was Right]

These same unconfirmed reports also suggest that the activation cost for consumers buying or borrowing pre-owned software will be £35.

So £5 less than a full price game? And retailers get only 10% of that? What is the point of this system then if it fucks both consumers and retailers?