Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

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The reason it annoyed me wasn't because I don't think Varys cares who's on the throne, it because I think he does and I have some ideas as to where his alleigence might lie.

And that 'lol' comment kind of confirmed it for me.
 
RedShift said:
The reason it annoyed me wasn't because I don't think Varys cares who's on the throne, it because I think he does and I have some ideas as to where his alleigence might lie.

And that 'lol' comment kind of confirmed it for me.
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I'll say this much...

You never actually know something about where this story is going unless you know it, even when it seems obvious.

So take comfort in knowing that your theory is probably wrong, and whether it's right or wrong you still have absolutely no idea what is going to happen.
 
What I find weird about Varys is that he constantly says that he really cares about the realm and stuff, but really, I don't believe for a second that there is a character who just wants everything to be fine.
 
Des0lar said:
What I find weird about Varys is that he constantly says that he really cares about the realm and stuff, but really, I don't believe for a second that there is a character who just wants everything to be fine.
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At the risk of being LOLed at, I think Varys actually genuinely does want peace in the realm.

So yeah, he might care about who holds the Iron Throne in the sense that some rulers might be good for the realm and some might be bad for the realm, but I think of all the characters in the story his motivations seem to be among the least selfish.

To me he's the anti-Little Finger, as that conversation a couple of episodes demonstrated.

Littlefinger doesn't care if Westoros burns, as long as he gets to sit on the Iron Throne when the smoke clears.

Varys is an important and cunning player in the game of thrones, but he doesn't want the power for himself.
 
I find it hard to believe he's just interested in protecting the realm when in Season 1 he was sort of involved with something that could have made Vicerys king.
 
ramyeon said:
Viserys? He was in on the plot to assassinate Danaerys.
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The one that was promptly stopped by someone we know was working for Varys at the time? Could have been just Jorah having a boner for Dany or it could have been part of the plan.

He was chatting with the guy who set up the meeting between the Targarians and Drogo beneath the castle, saying the Stark Lannister war was coming too soon for the Dothraki invasion. Unless they somehow knew that Vicerys would die and Dany would take a level in badass it seems they were on his side.
 
RDreamer said:
You don't get info from people by making a lot of enemies know you're their enemy.
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Yeah. I was responding to the statement he was in on the plot to assassinate her though. From the context of that conversation, it at least seems like they're working together. It's not proof of his intentions, but it does show the possibility that maybe he wasn't exactly putting his best foot forward in the assassination attempt. He's hard to read, in a way. We can never know if he was just pretending to work with the fat guy or just pretending to work with the Lannisters or just pretending to work with Ned.
 
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Varys was scheming to help Dany win the Iron Throne, but even if that's the case I'm saying that I'm sure he does it because he believed that a Targaryen coming to power again is what's good for the realm.

I mean, I doubt Varys has any real intentions for personal power (being made a great lord, being a King / Hand of the King, etc.)

So let's quickly analyze his possible motivations

1 - He wants power for himself.
2 - He wants to help a loved one / friend we are yet to know about.
3 - He actually wants a King/Queen that would be best for Westoros.

I personally lean strongly against option #1, and more towards option #3.

And for what it's worth, if he truly wants what is best for Westoros, then he probably doesn't want the Lannisters in power. (Since their rule hasn't exactly been peaches and cream for Westoros)
 
The most obvious Varys/Dany connection is that Varys and Illyrio are almost certainly in cahoots, and Illyrio was the one who helped deliver Dany to Drogo, and he was also the person who gave her the dragon eggs.

So yeah, Varys and Illyrio are up to something.
 
HyruleGuardian said:
The most obvious Varys/Dany connection is that Varys and Illyrio are almost certainly in cahoots, and Illyrio was the one who helped deliver Dany to Drogo, and he was also the person who gave her the dragon eggs.

So yeah, Varys / and Illyrio are up to something.
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I thought that 'something' was pretty clear, bring back Targarian rule.

Varys goes on about serving the realm. It's clear her (many people) though Robert was a terrible king. They want the stability Westeros had for generations, Mad King's aside.
 
BobTheFork said:
I thought that 'something' was pretty clear, bring back Targarian rule.

Varys goes on about serving the realm. It's clear her (many people) though Robert was a terrible king. They want the stability Westeros had for generations, Mad King's aside.
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Restoring Targaryen rule seems like the most obvious motivation, of course.

I'm just careful never to say anything with absolute certainty in this story.
 
BobTheFork said:
I thought that 'something' was pretty clear, bring back Targarian rule.

Varys goes on about serving the realm. It's clear her (many people) though Robert was a terrible king. They want the stability Westeros had for generations, Mad King's aside.
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That makes no sense though. Do they think things magically lent themselves to order when the Targaryns first came? Stability takes time. If Varys is stupid enough to think that risking more Mad Kings due to inbreeding is better than giving the kingdom time to adjust to new rule, I think his rival has a point about Varys and his illusions...Seriously, it's been less than 20 years since Robert's rebellion hasn't it? Give things some time. Yeesh
 
I think Varys is covering his own arse, forward thinking about the fate of the realm and the danger he could be in. You'll notice this a lot with Varys, and I discussed it earlier, the differences between him and Littlefinger. Littlefinger doesn't mind completely uprooting the realm and causing chaos to move forward. Varys would rather keep the illusion of peace and control so he can weasel around in the background. He's a manipulator who doesn't want to draw any attention.

Like when he conversed with Ned in the dungeon, he doesn't like war and conflict. He doesn't want to put the kingdom, and thus his position of power, in a chaotic position with potentially volatile outcomes. He wants peace, so he can manipulate in secret.

Now look at the Daenerys situation. He's said on more than one occasion that his "little birds" have informed him that the Targaryen bloodline lives. That Daenerys has an army. And that Daenerys has dragons, three of them. He presses Tyrion on the matter before the Battle of Blackwater, Tyrion generally unconcerned as the dragons are young and she's far away, Varys responding with something like "And then when they're grown there will be nowhere to hide."

Varys knows the Daenerys shit is an inevitability. She is going to come to Westeros. With an army. And three fucking dragons. To take the goddamn throne. And for all we know Varys sees no way she will lose. He's smart enough to predict this, and will in turn sew as many seeds and make as many connections as necessary to ensure he lives through the chaos.
 
Look, if you've watched the series this far and think Varys doesn't care who's on the throne, I don't know what to tell you. You are obviously not paying attention. If you want to be completely ignorant to characterization, go ahead. Someone just mentioned the conversation Arya overheard between Varys and Illiryio Mopatis (sorry for spelling.) Read a transcript of that conversation. You seriously think Varys doesn't care? Ok. You don't have to read the books to know, you just have to have working eyes and ears while watching TV. Get off me.
 
EatChildren said:
I think Varys is covering his own arse, forward thinking about the fate of the realm and the danger he could be in. You'll notice this a lot with Varys, and I discussed it earlier, the differences between him and Littlefinger. Littlefinger doesn't mind completely uprooting the realm and causing chaos to move forward. Varys would rather keep the illusion of peace and control so he can weasel around in the background. He's a manipulator who doesn't want to draw any attention.

Like when he conversed with Ned in the dungeon, he doesn't like war and conflict. He doesn't want to put the kingdom, and thus his position of power, in a chaotic position with potentially volatile outcomes. He wants peace, so he can manipulate in secret.

Now look at the Daenerys situation. He's said on more than one occasion that his "little birds" have informed him that the Targaryen bloodline lives. That Daenerys has an army. And that Daenerys has dragons, three of them. He presses Tyrion on the matter before the Battle of Blackwater, Tyrion generally unconcerned as the dragons are young and she's far away, Varys responding with something like "And then when they're grown there will be nowhere to hide."

Varys knows the Daenerys shit is an inevitability. She is going to come to Westeros. With an army. And three fucking dragons. To take the goddamn throne. And for all we know Varys sees no way she will lose. He's smart enough to predict this, and will in turn sew as many seeds and make as many connections as necessary to ensure he lives through the chaos.
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I predict that when Daenerys arrives at King's Landing with her triple dragons and army, It will be Varys who will open the door and welcome her with open arms...
 
Zoso Achilles said:
Look, if you've watched the series this far and think Varys doesn't care who's on the throne, I don't know what to tell you. You are obviously not paying attention. If you want to be completely ignorant to characterization, go ahead. Someone just mentioned the conversation Arya overheard between Varys and Illiryio Mopatis (sorry for spelling.) Read a transcript of that conversation. You seriously think Varys doesn't care? Ok. You don't have to read the books to know, you just have to have working eyes and ears while watching TV. Get off me.
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We've moved beyond this, dude.
 
Zoso Achilles said:
Look, if you've watched the series this far and think Varys doesn't care who's on the throne, I don't know what to tell you. You are obviously not paying attention. If you want to be completely ignorant to characterization, go ahead. Someone just mentioned the conversation Arya overheard between Varys and Illiryio Mopatis (sorry for spelling.) Read a transcript of that conversation. You seriously think Varys doesn't care? Ok. You don't have to read the books to know, you just have to have working eyes and ears while watching TV. Get off me.
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Not really spoilers, but just an explanation of why a book reader doing that is not a good idea:

A large point of the series is that things aren't always what they appear. When you as a book reader make a statement about a character like that, you are basically giving away that the situation is such in the future ( or in the case if you are actually wrong, it still gives away that impression, which is just as bad) and thus the drama of the unknown is spoiled. Your comments, as a book reader, have extra legitimacy, true or false, due to the fact that you know what's going to happen and what the state of the world is at least two seasons into the future.

It's just better to refrain from any kind of character analysis, since you are giving away the future (or appear to be, which can ruin the experience all the same for a show watcher all the same) by the mere action of commenting on the present.
 
I don't have the S1 DVDs with me here. What was the conversation Varys was having with that dude, that Aria overheard, where she came to the conclusion that they wanted to kill her dad?

Also, is Varys a pedophile? I remember LittleFinger accusing him of that and saying that his "little birds" are actually kids. Don't think I can respect a pedo.
 
Rorschach said:
I don't have the S1 DVDs with me here. What was the conversation Varys was having with that dude, that Aria overheard, where she came to the conclusion that they wanted to kill her dad?

Also, is Varys a pedophile? I remember LittleFinger accusing him of that and saying that his "little birds" are actually kids. Don't think I can respect a pedo.
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Your questions have not been answered yet.
 
Wait... Someone actually thinks that VARYS is a pedo?

...

eu·nuch
/ˈyo͞onək/
Noun
A castrated man, esp. one who guards the women's living areas at an oriental court.
An ineffectual person: "a nation of political eunuchs".
Synonyms
spado - gelding - castrate
 
HyruleGuardian said:
Wait... Someone actually thinks that VARYS is a pedo?

...

eu·nuch
/ˈyo͞onək/
Noun
A castrated man, esp. one who guards the women's living areas at an oriental court.
An ineffectual person: "a nation of political eunuchs".
Synonyms
spado - gelding - castrate
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ped·o·phile [ped-uh-fahyl or, esp. British, pee-duh-]
noun Psychiatry.
an adult who is sexually attracted to young children.

Pretty sure you could still be psychologically attracted to young children even if you've been castrated.
 
Don't really want to read through this thread to find out (thar be spoilers!), but is there a reason why the latest episode hasn't been put on HBOGo yet? Or maybe it's just me?
 
-Yeti said:
Don't really want to read through this thread to find out (thar be spoilers!), but is there a reason why the latest episode hasn't been put on HBOGo yet? Or maybe it's just me?
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It was one of those things so magnificent it will only ever be shown once.

You missed out man.


Edit: Dangit guys...
 
Rorschach said:
Wait, someone actually thinks you need a penis to be a pedophile?
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Well, you may have heard something about how having your balls sliced off suppresses sexual desire. See neutered animals for a demonstration of this effect.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would make someone about a thousand times less likely to be a pedophile.

In any case...

Varys is not a pedophile, so this is a ridiculous discussion.

Varys' "little birds" are just his spies. He has a lot of them and yes, some might be children. That doesn't mean he's sexually abusing them.
 
HyruleGuardian said:
Well, you may have heard something about how having your balls sliced off suppresses sexual desire. See neutered animals for a demonstration of this effect.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would make someone about a thousand times less likely to be a pedophile.

In any case...

Varys is not a pedophile, so this is a ridiculous discussion.

Varys' "little birds" are just his spies. He has a lot of them and yes, some might be children. That doesn't mean he's sexually abusing them.
Click to expand...

If anything he's taking orphan kids in a world where no one gives a shit about them and helping them, the implication that he molests kids or mistreats them is an insult to his character to discredit him and his information.
 
Things will go poorly for Littlefinger in the vale, I think. That crazy kid might say he wants to see him fly. If Little finger was lying about her being "positively predisposed" to him doesn't matter. Catlyn was her sister, so they were probably close. That didn't stop her from being batshit crazy.
 
HyruleGuardian said:
Well, you may have heard something about how having your balls sliced off suppresses sexual desire. See neutered animals for a demonstration of this effect.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would make someone about a thousand times less likely to be a pedophile.

In any case...

Varys is not a pedophile, so this is a ridiculous discussion.

Varys' "little birds" are just his spies. He has a lot of them and yes, some might be children. That doesn't mean he's sexually abusing them.
Click to expand...

I didn't wonder if he was a pedo because his spies are all kids, but because Baelish brought it up. Maybe he's the Michael Jackson of GoT.

That said, I looked up the clip and I had originally misunderstood his "business with pleasure" line to mean that he derived pleasure from little boys when in fact he's saying the exact opposite.
 
NorrenRadd said:
What is the current status of Benjin (sp?) Stark? I seem to remember they found his horse or something.
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My wife and I have a theory but I'd hate for the book reading squad to call me out if it were real, thus spoiling it for me. Even if they counter it with a "no, dude. you're safe" spoils that it doesn't happen haha.
 
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