Fighting Games Weekly | May 27 - June 2nd | Check Your E-Privilege

Karsticles said:
I'm surprised you started the game so late, considering this quote from you when the game was in pre-release:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02UZw7gQnVo&t=04m20s

LOL, Mike Ross @ 1:00: "Maybe we'll get Sentinel or something like that" *nervous chuckle*

Thor is probably medium in the game in terms of finger requirements. Are you still running Spencer/She-Hulk/Thor?
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Oh I definitely played it when Vanilla first came out and stuck with it until a bit after Evo 2011. My vanilla team was Shehulk/Spencer/Doom. I helped convince Justin to pick up Shehulk! But I started to hate the game after a while and then didn't play or care about it for a good year and a half.

My team has been Hulk Haggar Thor in a few different orders since I started playing again, but I think I'm gonna split Thor off. While he gets a lot out of wave and lariat, I'm not sure Hulk gets enough out of beam. I want to be able to kill in more situations, but the only way to do it with Hulk is to have some fast consistent otg assist like Wesker, Sentinel, Shehulk, or Deadpool. So I'm gonna try Hulk Haggar with each of those and see what I like.

Imo Thor is better than Hulk and Haggar so I don't want to drop him, but I am gonna try to give him a more complete Thor-centric team. We'll see.
 
You really think SFxT being too hard is what's keeping people from playing it competitively? -_-
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It's not so much that it's "hard" as it is that it's a game that emphasizes lab time in a way other games don't. (Not that they don't need lab time, every game does, but so much of the game's combo system is relatively unintuitive compared to say, Marvel.) There's a very real time investment:reward issue.
 
Beckx said:
Hah. What was that Castlevania fighting game again?
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Judgment. I heard it wasn't bad once you got past the crappy character redesigns.

UltraDavid said:
Oh I definitely played it when Vanilla first came out and stuck with it until a bit after Evo 2011. My vanilla team was Shehulk/Spencer/Doom. I helped convince Justin to pick up Shehulk! But I started to hate the game after a while and then didn't play or care about it for a good year and a half.

My team has been Hulk Haggar Thor in a few different orders since I started playing again, but I think I'm gonna split Thor off. While he gets a lot out of wave and lariat, I'm not sure Hulk gets enough out of beam. I want to be able to kill in more situations, but the only way to do it with Hulk is to have some fast consistent otg assist like Wesker, Sentinel, Shehulk, or Deadpool. So I'm gonna try Hulk Haggar with each of those and see what I like.

Imo Thor is better than Hulk and Haggar so I don't want to drop him, but I am gonna try to give him a more complete Thor-centric team. We'll see.
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Thor goes best with Bolts of Balthakk, Unibeam, Dagger Toss, and Gun Fire. The sustained horizontal projectile is like magic for him. He does kind of benefit from an OTG for comboing off of air throws, though if you have Dr. Strange using Bolts of Balthakk you might be able to just THC off the throw for damage (IDK).

Some good Thor/Strange tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryp8qvcbB8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-INiL1AnC4

Do you feel you need the OTG assist with Hulk for comboing off of air throws? If so, there are definitely assists that you can combine with Gamma Wave L to OTG into full combos (I think Double Lariat is one of them). You probably want a low-hitting OTG to get unblockable setups if you just want a combo extender.

SolarPowered said:
They've got a better chance of making it when the Capcom side is effectively doubled in size!
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0x2 = 0 :-(

kirblar said:
It's not so much that it's "hard" as it is that it's a game that emphasizes lab time in a way other games don't. (Not that they don't need lab time, every game does, but so much of the game's combo system is relatively unintuitive compared to say, Marvel.) There's a very real time investment:reward issue.
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I don't feel that's true. In the ~15 minutes I played SFxT, I thought the combo system was very easy and intuitive. LMHH and you've launched into a tag!
 
kirblar said:
It's not so much that it's "hard" as it is that it's a game that emphasizes lab time in a way other games don't. (Not that they don't need lab time, every game does, but so much of the game's combo system is relatively unintuitive compared to say, Marvel.) There's a very real time investment:reward issue.
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Is it really that difficult? I would've assumed hitstun deterioration made Marvel combos way more unintuitive than SFxT.
 
Karsticles said:
I don't feel that's true. In the ~15 minutes I played SFxT, I thought the combo system was very easy and intuitive. LMHH and you've launched into a tag!
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In Vanilla, it was all you needed for quite a few character. Poke, hitconfirm, blockstring and damage all at once.
Now that it does not work, you kinda need to do proper combos. The game is surprisingly high damage and the difference from 1,2 or 3 meter and corner/midscreen is hue fro some characters,
 
Karsticles said:
Thor goes best with Bolts of Balthakk, Unibeam, Dagger Toss, and Gun Fire. The sustained horizontal projectile is like magic for him. He does kind of benefit from an OTG for comboing off of air throws, though if you have Dr. Strange using Bolts of Balthakk you might be able to just THC off the throw for damage (IDK).

Some good Thor/Strange tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryp8qvcbB8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-INiL1AnC4

Do you feel you need the OTG assist with Hulk for comboing off of air throws? If so, there are definitely assists that you can combine with Gamma Wave L to OTG into full combos (I think Double Lariat is one of them). You probably want a low-hitting OTG to get unblockable setups if you just want a combo extender.
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Mm hm, I was thinking about bolts, I'm just not sure if I can do Strange combos. Def need some horizontal assist, we'll see.

As for Hulk, no, comboing off airthrow is no big deal. More important is being able to combo off of command grab and launch combos that end up midscreen. He can do damage in both situations with wave or gamma tsunami, but he usually can't get the kill, often even with xfactor and another bar. And if you don't kill, now the opponent is a full screen away from you! The more I play Hulk, the more I realize that I need to kill whenever I get in.
 
SolarPowered said:
When you said "least likely to make it in" you made it sound like these characters had an actual CHANCE. If you'd said no chance from the start... yeah.
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Nina is a card in two Capcom games. I think that makes her a shoe-in!
:-(


LordJim said:
In Vanilla, it was all you needed for quite a few character. Poke, hitconfirm, blockstring and damage all at once.
Now that it does not work, you kinda need to do proper combos. The game is surprisingly high damage and the difference from 1,2 or 3 meter and corner/midscreen is hue fro some characters,
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I just don't believe this is a real problem. If people had to research and figure out their own combos, then sure. But everyone just goes to a forum and copy-pastes someone else's effort into their own game.
 
kirblar said:
It's not so much that it's "hard" as it is that it's a game that emphasizes lab time in a way other games don't. (Not that they don't need lab time, every game does, but so much of the game's combo system is relatively unintuitive compared to say, Marvel.) There's a very real time investment:reward issue.
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It's not even that the game requires a lot of lab time but it's simply that it requires folks to actually break their current play habits and adjust. Stuff you do in SF4 is suboptimal in SFxT and no one is giving a crap enough to actually do that so. Folks that do though are showing some great stuff, Coolkid, Seth, all the online warriors and the like. The game has a lot of awesome to it but hasn't been explored.

OceanBlue said:
Is it really that difficult? I would've assumed hitstun deterioration made Marvel combos way more unintuitive than SFxT.
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It's not but it's uninitutive for SF4 players. Scaling is the same as SF4 (on the whole) so with 2 life bars, the standard combo you'd do in AE doesn't do as much. Plus tag-in combos are new and require a bit of thought on when and where to do it.
 
Karsticles said:
Nina is a card in two Capcom games. I think that makes her a shoe-in!
:-(
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Look at it this way. If BoF gets any representation in an All-stars game she has a fifty percent chance at the very least. It may as well be a hundred percent if two slots are open. It's like old Clover studios IPs. I know that Ammy is a shoe-in at the end of the day if they go to that well again.
 
SolarPowered said:
Look at it this way. If BoF gets any representation in an All-stars game she has a fifty percent chance at the very least. It may as well be a hundred percent if two slots are open. It's like old Clover studios IPs. I know that Ammy is a shoe-in at the end of the day if they go to that well again.
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Actually, it's more like a 33% chance, because in TvC Niitsuma wanted to put Fou-Lu in if he was going with a BoF character.
 
FluxWaveZ said:
It's disappointing. Seems that this is an overall smaller event. I'll be going to Ultimate Montreal Air Dashers that will be happening the week after MAT X.
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There was some drama with MTLSF during the year so they probably didn't want to over extend this year ... but tell me more about that Air Dashers thingy. I'll be busy this week-end so I can't make it to MAT but I'll probably be able to schedule a babysitter for the next.
 
Kioshen said:
There was some drama with MTLSF during the year so they probably didn't want to over extend this year ... but tell me more about that Air Dashers thingy. I'll be busy this week-end so I can't make it to MAT but I'll probably be able to schedule a babysitter for the next.
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Is that so? Well, I hope this isn't a sign of things to come for the future.

UMAD will take place on June 8th starting with BlazBlue at 2 PM EDT and the list of games are the following:

Main Tournaments :
Blazblue CS Extend
Guilty Gear (Hopefully AC+R)
Persona 4 Arena

Side Tournaments :
Gundam EXVS 2v2
Melty Blood
KoF 13
Aquapazza
Arcana Heart 3
Chaos Code
Vampire Savior

Stream will be here. It's a bit weird, now that I think about it, that Skullgirls isn't anywhere in that list.
 
As dumb as the whole NRS v Keits stuff is, I wouldn't mind if this resulted in the Chicago NRS guys just doing their own big-ass NRS-centric tournament. The FGC needs more of that kind of stuff.

Mostly I just want to see a big UMK3 tournament because that game is dope.
 
Karsticles said:
This is tricky because the Capcom characters I want the most are probably the least likely to make it in...
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I won't buy anything like Capcom vs Capcom unless they make up some new character that plays exactly like Magneto, or at least force his style onto another character. I don't care if his name is Bagneto or if they turn some random, obscure NPC into a tridashing, grav-looping beast, I just need that shit.
 
Clawww said:
I won't buy anything like Capcom vs Capcom unless they make up some new character that plays exactly like Magneto, or at least force his style onto another character. I don't care if his name is Bagneto or if they turn some random, obscure NPC into a tridashing, grav-looping beast, I just need that shit.
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There are probably characters who can already fit this bill. For example, Jedah could be retooled to have a Magneto-like airdash. I actually bet I could replace the Marvel-side of the cast with Capcom equivalents fairly easily if I wanted to. Hopefully Capcom would notice how important it is to keep the Marvel character playstyles in the game (with adjustments).
 
Lost Fragment said:
As dumb as the whole NRS v Keits stuff is, I wouldn't mind if this resulted in the Chicago NRS guys just doing their own big-ass NRS-centric tournament. The FGC needs more of that kind of stuff.

Mostly I just want to see a big UMK3 tournament because that game is dope.
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But what if UMK3 is at 9?
 
Speaking of tournaments focused on specific games...

Big E is planning a big Tekken only tournament at the end of October, and Bronson has been hinting at bringing back Norcal Strongstyle. Any tekken player that reads this thread, if you can, try to make it out to Big E's event.
 
Dahbomb said:
Because they are not willing to invest in the games beyond just the dev cost to make them (plus Marvel has licensing fees/contracts) because anything beyond that is a risk. They need to invest more money into supporting the games, money which may not come back as quickly as game sales. They are a business after all and they don't feel its worthwhile from a business point of view to invest any further than game makers for the FGC.

In reality its the higher ups at Capcom Japan that are just lost in their old ways. Its not just the fighting games every genre that Capcom has created games in have stagnated. They need an overhaul for next gen or at the minimum go back to early current gen Capcom which actually produced some decent games.
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I always thought capcom dropped marvel support because of the huge backlash during the release of ultimate right after marvel, I remember them getting hate from all sides during that debacle, maybe they thought the game was dead in the water after that?
 
Deps said:
Speaking of tournaments focused on specific games...

Big E is planning a big Tekken only tournament at the end of October, and Bronson has been hinting at bringing back Norcal Strongstyle. Any tekken player that reads this thread, if you can, try to make it out to Big E's event.
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Better not schedule it on a Friday!
 
livestOne said:
I always thought capcom dropped marvel support because of the huge backlash during the release of ultimate right after marvel, I remember them getting hate from all sides during that debacle, maybe they thought the game was dead in the water after that?
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If we are to believe what Svensson says (and I take everything that Svensson/Capcom say with a grain of salt) then the actual story behind Marvel is a simple one.

They had a set amount of time to release a set amount of games Marvel related. They made Vanilla and then had a couple more releases remaining in the contract. Of course they opted first for an expansion but the problem was the release date. They didn't want it to release during SFxT's year so they had to bump it to November of the SAME year as Vanilla. Of course that back fired a bit BUT the game has done reasonable well (again if we are to believe what Capcom said, they came out later and said the game had good legs and they are satisfied with where the game ended up being).

After Ultimate Marvel they had one more release in the contract remaining. This was also a grey area where it looked like we might get an expansion (Nitsuma and co making trips to Marvel HQ in US etc) and them hyping up the conference for Marvel. They opted NOT to do another update/expansion and instead they decided to do the MVC1/MSH ports. Obviously from a business point of view this makes perfect sense... a 3rd update less than a year after the 2nd one would've been a disaster and Capcom did very well with the MVC2 ports so they took another shot at it.

As of right now the contract has either expired or its about to expire. This is based on the language Svensson himself has been using ("current agreement") when answering questions Marvel related which he gets a shit ton of every day on CU. At this point the only way for a Marvel update to happen is if they renew the contract but if they renew the contract it will not be just for an update... it will be for future Marvel games like MVC4 as well plus maybe getting MVC3 on other platforms like Xbox One, PC, PS4.

The bottom line is that Capcom drafted an absolutely shitacular agreement with Marvel. They saw easy money and signed the agreement without thinking it through or future proofing the game. Marvel had gotten more business savvy over the years and had more control over the games (including which characters made it and which didn't) plus how many times it can be updated/released. That's why we have no PC version of Marvel 3 either. That's why Capcom is not allowed to make simple balance/bug patches to the game. Every time Nitsuma is harassed about this he says the same thing, his hands are tied and there are legal issues related to it.

I am sure there is way more to the whole Marvel dilemma than just this but this is the gist of it. If anything is inaccurate here then I want actual proof presented not vague generalities because that is how Svensson basically talks anyway. I mean all this is basically off of what Svensson said so whatever quote you get from him will essentially support this. Anything that contradicts this will just give you more proof to not believe a damn word he says.
 
New Ono pic
Woooo, I have been running around too much for something new... I can't slow down. XO
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Hb8DB
 
"Stick is always better!" seems to bet getting more and more blowback as people age. :-P

Anyone think there will be any small system changes for AE 2013?
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Would not be surprised to see SFxT's unblockable prevention system implemented.
 
Skullgirls also isn't usually at stuff like NorCal Install, Rebel Up, or Northeast Taskforce (Team Stickbug stuff).
It's definitely found a different audience than the traditional anime people.
 
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