Osu 16 Bit
Member
I have wanted a GGA MK major for a long time.
I still want MK to be part of UFGT next year though.
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I have wanted a GGA MK major for a long time.
I still want MK to be part of UFGT next year though.
Mid October is the mid term exam season... that does suck for the students.
He said games like MK and Injustie were designed to mainly be played on pad.
"Stick is always better!" seems to bet getting more and more blowback as people age.
Would not be surprised to see SFxT's unblockable prevention system implemented.
I eventually accepted that I haven't played in the arcades since the 90s and sold off my TE. I was starting from scratch with it i.e. can't do shoryus on the left side of the stick. That's where I was at when I first played SF2 lol
I do much better on my hori EX2 pad. and with vergil doom.
Normally I'd agree, but here the amount of work needed to add characters is so miniscule as to make it silly to NOT do it. (Note the shared "Cast of characters!" theme between the two pictures.)
Bronson seems to be tweeting a bunch about Strongstyle lately so one can always hope, Strongstyle 4 was amazing.
Another Ono pic. Tweet is in Japanese and mentions EVO. I guess that is a deadline for the team.
Yeah, he's basically wondering if they'll have it up by Evo.
Another Ono pic. Tweet is in Japanese and mentions EVO. I guess that is a deadline for the team.
New move lists? (You can see the standard is still under the plexi, while there are others taped up.) Dammit Ono I just printed mine.
atomic moth
Member
"Stick is always better!" seems to bet getting more and more blowback as people age.
Yea, what's confusing is that Tekken is mainly a pad game and has been for a while now, yet Aris stuck with stick because that's just what he knew.
I'll have to ask him when he streams again.
SolarPowered
Member
It's a mix of everything except SNK people. Online is another matter.
lol
I got no problem with everything else.
SloaneRisette
Member
You guys are playing into his hand again.
Just like Dahbomb and his "Marvel patch".
Just like Dahbomb and his "Marvel patch".
Karsticles
Member
If you don't know, that's the official explanation. They didn't want UMvC3 to conflict with SFxT.
Yet another tick on the checklist of why SFxT is a big piece of shit.
Something was up w/ Marvel/Capcom corporate at the beginning of the year. But it's not going to result in a MvC3 patch, unfortunately. (Hopefully it leads to MvC4, though.)
Correct, they had to use a date that didn't conflict with either SFxT or Marvel's other releases.
That is actually true. The SFxT's release date had a big part in UMVC3 releasing November. Capcom have said so themselves.
Like I said, that beginning of the year (last year, I don't think anything happened this year) meeting they had was most definitely the MSH/MVC1 ports they released later last year.
E3 is close by, EVO is not that far away. If there was anything Marvel related coming up we would've heard some one off rumors or vague tweets about it. You already know how the minions jump on everything. It has been completely silent on that front so nothing is brewing.
Makes sense, if they were 100% committed to the idea of Ultimate MVC3. Either November or wait for a long time after SFxT to release it while we're stuck with shitty Vanilla.
Ultimate's release was a good thing overall. We got all of it at once instead of waiting for all those characters to trickle out at $5 a piece or whatever.
Ultimate's release was a good thing overall. We got all of it at once instead of waiting for all those characters to trickle out at $5 a piece or whatever.
SolarPowered
Member
The part about Mahvel being screwed for SFxT is widely known. It's the part about the nine month update backfiring "a bit". It's like no one besides me was there to see the disaster that caused with people swearing off Capcom fighters. It's impact was huge and it bit SFxT right in the balls before the DLC characters even had a chance to piss off casuals.
Karsticles
Member
The MSH/MvC1 ports were part of the original licensing agreement. I don't see why Niitsuma would need to go to CA when it was all agreed upon already.
Oh, I remember that totally.
This is mostly correct but a few things:
1) Marvel got to choose the release date, not Capcom. Wherever they feel fits best in their schedule and game releases. This is probably the first thing we ever figured out about the contract.
2) They got what they wanted out of it and so did Marvel. This was planned well in advance and you can't say anything about them not thinking about future proofing when the current agreement covered 3 games and they met their 3 game quota. The earthquake changed plans and meant they had to push out UMvC3 early. This resulting made a 3rd game unfeasible, because the rate of return would be so low it isn't worth it. You can't keep using the contract as a scapegoat for what would obviously be an unprofitable venture should they update it in the future, whereas they serve more to gain from SFIV, also considering its larger international appeal. It wasn't a shitty contract in the first place if stuff beyond both of their control meant they had to change their strategy half way through to make some money off of it or force it to be released so far into the future when they wouldn't make much off of it either.
3) Patching/updating is different from a retail/big release update. They can't do the former because the team was dissolved, precisely because they couldn't do the latter. No point in keeping a team exclusively for Marvel, and fragments of a team aren't exactly as useful as they are for SF where those same guys have been overseeing SF for forever and could stay there to work on post-release SFIV and SFxTK the entire time.
Most of what Capcom did with Marvel with what they were given makes sense, especially considering Marvel are control freaks and always will be. Once you realize how much Marvel has contributed to the ills of Marvel, you will understand that from a business sense, Capcom was smart to leave Marvel in the state it is, especially considering its a game that warrants more of a hands-off approach in the metagame in the first place than patching at the nearest opportunity.
I don't even want a patch, because it won't change the biggest problem (TACs), and I'd rather the game left as is and just have more characters added to it.
but internet declarations of swearing off Capcom games forever accompany every single move the company makes and UMVC3 sold/is still selling well. I just don't see the evidence that people complaining online factored in on SFxT, aside from quantities of the complaints themselves.
SFxT was just a bad game at launch. Balance-wise, that sound desync glitch, the patch that introduced the Rolento game crash.
A good enough game will always bring people back, but SFxT was even more sorry than Vanilla MVC3 at launch.
How the hell would patch won't change TACs? That would be the FIRST thing to be changed if the game did get patched.
Again, Capcom has said themselves SFxT's date was a big issue for them. Now the rebuttal to that would be "well why not release after SFxT" and that's where the Marvel's game came in. So yeah I missed that part BUT they were both implicit in UMVC3's early release date.
And this is where we have to disagree considerably. Marvel is a game that warrants hands off to a certain extent but not completely. Let's get one thing straight.. if Vanilla Marvel had stayed the same no new meta game would've developed and people would've all used the same shit. A major patch change is sometimes necessary to shake up the meta game and that's what happened with Ultimate. I dare you to say that Ultimate was NOT a net improvement for the game, I mean if what you are arguing would hold true then Marvel 3 didn't NEED an update.
The extreme variables in the game is why this game requires MORE changes than even an NRS game (not frequent but bigger changes over a longer period of time). I don't like to bring DOTA in this but its the closest thing to it so I will use the example. That game is patched with a major balance patch almost 3-4 times a year and has been patched for nearly a decade. It's still not even CLOSE to being balanced and that's because of the insane amount of variables in the game. Every time a new patch comes it changes the meta way more than the game just sitting there developing on its own. You might say "well people have figured out the game by now so thats why it needs patches" and yet you have new glitches, new builds, new teams and new ways to play discovered in the game at a constant basis regardless of patches being put out.
Such is the case for Marvel. Meta game isn't going to develop on its own especially when players know what works in tournaments and what doesn't. The top players will still use the characters that they can win with.
New Ono pic
Blocking Alex, Rolento and Sodom obviously.
Karsticles
Member
Niitsuma has actually apologized for TAC infinites. I think it upsets him more than it does us.
SloaneRisette
Member
SolarPowered
Member
You give consumers way too much credit if you think they were able to tell anything significant about SFxT. The game had an opening month that was less than 1/3rd the size of MvC3 and SFIV's first months. It was just about 1/3rd of the opening month sales for Injustice. UMvC3 set the tone whether or not you want to believe it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=58190956&postcount=1163
toddhunter
Member
The rest makes sense, but I don't really agree with this bit. Terrible agreement for lovers of MVC3? Yeah I can see that. But I don't see how it is a bad agreement for Capcom given there really isn't anything in it for them to release another patch.
Sure it'll please a few fans, but they have already got thousands of hours of enjoyment out of the game, and still continue to do so. Not only that, but they'll be the first to line up for MVC4 to go through it all over again.
Nice points.
Who really knows, but I still think that any game with a title like sfxt or TTT2 or "ultimate" is going to struggle because they look like cheap spin offs. Obviously MVC is an exception but that is really its own thing and has the marvel license.
Yet remarkably better than the awful mess that is marvel.
Sorry, we were getting along too well earlier over the Nintendo discussion. ;(
Yeah from a business point of view they did alright with the contract.... but for people who were actually invested in the game like Nitsuma, people who made the game and people who play it... the contract held the game back. You know it's fucking bad when the director of the game has to publicly apologize for TAC infinites and then say his hands are tied. That is not a good look for your company to have a product on the market that is not working as advertised. And by that I mean the whole point of the numerous mechanics advertised and hyped up when the game first came out were to prevent such infinites.
Marvel 3 is one true guard break discovery away from being an identical game to MVC2. And that day people should just stop playing the game because Capcom with actual thought, resources and time put into the game couldn't come up with a game better than MVC2 which was essentially a glorified Mugen game. They should just go back to MVC2 instead because hey both games have infinites, guard breaks, TODs, hard to block mix ups but MVC2 at least doesn't have TACs and X Factor.
Karsticles
Member
SFxT was in a much worse place than Marvel has ever been, and then it got a patch. There's nothing I can do about the company supporting the inferior game. It probably still has a whole slew of broken things in it, but no one cares enough to look for them. Everyone is too busy having fun with Capcom's child it locks away in the attic.
I don't see any evidence of UMVC3 making consumers angry enough to boycott SFxT, aside from posts on more "in the know" places like neogaf, SRK, etc. And there was plenty that an average person could criticize about SFxT-- sound glitches in every online match and every match ending in a time over (if pros couldn't finish matches using the whole game engine, imagine casuals. I was casual. It was ass.)
not to mention Street Fighter mixed with Tekken is not exactly an idea that catches average consumer's eye. SF on its own = hell yeah. Marvel characters in a fighting game with Capcom characters = hell yeah. Street Fighter characters and Tekken in a 2D game that looks like exactly like SF4 but brighter? *crickets*
one of those things is not like the other.
Aside from the 25th anniversary thing and Cross Assault, Marvel has been supported more than SFxT. SFxT didn't get an expansion like Ultimate, it just got a major balance patch. I guess you could say that characters plus those changes equals an expansion but until SFxT gets another major patch you cannot say for sure that Capcom supported it more than Marvel.
toddhunter
Member
The first week and the events leading up to sfxt was very hype. Sure a lot of the comments might have been cross assault related money hats "BEST GAME EVER!" but everybody was pretty high about it.
I know, because my imported copy of the game didn't arrive
Something got screwed up and I had to wait an extra three weeks before it finally showed up (but on the plus side I did get it for free).Why was the wait so bad? Because by the end of those couple of weeks the DLC on disc thing happened and the hate train really picked up and kept on rolling. Basically I received a game that was already dead.
Pretty sure it only got that support because of the Vita version. They had to at least pretend they were not going to drop it like a stone until that was out.
That is fair, but the game is still going to be played at EVO and is still more or less the #1 fighting game in the US. If I made the game I'd still be pretty darn proud of it...even if I agree some harsh lessons were hopefully learned.
We don't know the exact number, but Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 probably didn't fare too much better than Street Fighter X Tekken.
We just know that the PS3 version sold less than 100k (360 version sold more, but we don't know by how much).
Depends on how strongstyle is scheduled, I might go there. We'll see how far I go mwahahaha
I would hope that a full retail game did better than an expansion of a retail game that released within the same year.
UMVC3 did 600K under 3 months:
http://thesilentchief.com/2012/02/02/capcom-shares-ultimate-marvel-vs-capcom-3-sales-numbers/
they are "satisfactory" and it continues to sell
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/...are-now-satisfactory-continues-sell-actively/
DryEyeRelief
Member
"Stick is always better!" seems to bet getting more and more blowback as people age.
.
Is Wolfkrone getting younger then?
Karsticles
Member
SFxT got a huge expansion. ;-)
And SFxT had a whole tournament held for it as well. Did you forget that?
Edit: I am tired, and you did not!
Some Georgia Injustice
http://www.twitch.tv/funkyp/old
http://www.twitch.tv/funkyp/old
toddhunter
Member
Karsticles
Member
Undeniable.
Wait did you say that TTT2 and SFxT did worse than UMVC3 (600K)? I need to see receipts on that, I have a hard time believing that.
I've been watching prices for UMvC3 compared to SFxT and there's no contest. Even used games sell around new prices on Amazon/Ebay while SFxT has constant sales all the time.
Also both vanilla and ultimate MvC3 trade in for more than SFxT at GameStop.
360 version values:
Marvel vs Capcom 3 - $4.50
Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 - $7.50
Street Fighter X Tekken - $4
EDIT: Errr this isn't irrefutable proof of anything, but I think it supports the claim that UMvC3 still sells actively (and probably more actively than SFxT).
Also both vanilla and ultimate MvC3 trade in for more than SFxT at GameStop.
360 version values:
Marvel vs Capcom 3 - $4.50
Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 - $7.50
Street Fighter X Tekken - $4
EDIT: Errr this isn't irrefutable proof of anything, but I think it supports the claim that UMvC3 still sells actively (and probably more actively than SFxT).
TAC infinites might get patched (likely not because Marvel is about creativity) but we would still have to deal with TACs because they are shitty as is and part of the vision for Marvel 3 as opposed to remaking Marvel 2. They won't remove those entirely as they are one of the biggest contributions/changes from Marvel 2 alongside X-Factor.
And yeah, obviously Capcom wouldn't release SFxTK at the same time as UMvC3, but remember if they did release UMvC3 later, it would be up to Marvel, and the date was too far into the future, so they said eff it. Capcom couldn't do March, so they decided they might as well get it out in the same fiscal year and call it a day.
Marvel 3 was heading into a dark derpy direction and probably needed that patch, but we aren't in the dire straits that was Vanilla at that time. At the same time, you can't even really predict where it would head considering all this tech that's come out now to control Phoenix that has been shown to work in Vanilla too. By the end of Vanilla we were seeing top players finding ways to deal with Phoenix, but Ultimate was just around the corner. The rest of the games problems, primarily balance, yeah they would require patching too.
I think once a year is decent, as long as they are not drastic patches or anything, but honestly, the game doesn't need a ton of fixes either. I don't think it prescribes a huge long-term strategy, especially one that doesn't make much business sense and obviously doesn't rake in even a fraction of the money that allows you to patch something 3-4 times a year and sustain it. There are like 4 publishers who can afford that shit on consoles and they all make games that embarrass the sales of any fighting game.
I really think sometimes we look at the ideal situation and divorce it from the framework that makes these games what they are and hold them and the genre back. Maybe I'm victimizing Capcom a bit, but I don't really see myself doing much different in their shoes from what we know went down, and it's probably not as simple as going out to dinner with Chris Baker a few extra times too. I've been pretty vocal about how platforms have held the genre back this gen.
TAC infinites, but TACs in general?
We don't know Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3's 1st month, just that the PS3 version sold less than 100k, and the 360 version sold more than less than 100k.
The 600k figure or whatever is a shipment number from Capcom, not sales to consumers.
If you check SolarPowered's link earlier you'll see Nirolak quoting the Street Fighter X Tekken figure, and my post on the top of that page has the Tekken Tag Tournament 2 numbers.
Again, these are all only 1st months, when creamsugar gave us some info, we don't know anything after that.
The 600k figure or whatever is a shipment number from Capcom, not sales to consumers.
If you check SolarPowered's link earlier you'll see Nirolak quoting the Street Fighter X Tekken figure, and my post on the top of that page has the Tekken Tag Tournament 2 numbers.
Again, these are all only 1st months, when creamsugar gave us some info, we don't know anything after that.