Support NeoGAF

[IceDoesntHelp]

i'm gonna tell ec and he's gonna make you sit in the corner if you're lying

:lol

 

[Übermatik]

I found a lot of info in those bins outside RETRO's building.

 

[D_prOdigy]

Über's just been on the sherry, guys.

 

[javac]

Yeah the chances of MARIO KART appearing at E3 is not looking so hot since Nintendo still haven't rendered any of the wheels and Miyamoto is still finishing adding in Mario's mustache to the final cinematic. We'll see.

 

[schuelma]

What the hell I'll give it a shot (I'm going to assume this is for the most part Wii U only)

-Opens with Zelda: Wind Waker. Looks rad. Sept/Oct 2013
-Very brief montage of the summer Wii U lineup. Pikmin, Splinter Cell, Luigi U, W101
-Short trailer for Wii U Party. Fall 2013
-Trailer for Wii Fit U. Now moved to "holiday 2013"
-3rd party sizzle reel. Rayman/AC4/Watch Dogs/Arkham/Scribblenauts, maybe CoD. A few random Japanese announcements (maybe something like Samurai Warriors 4 or something). Nothing too mindblowing.
-Sonic Lost World full trailer. Fall 2013.
-Mario Kart fully unveiled. Looks surprisingly decent with a robust online mode. "Holiday 2013".
- Mario Universe Game of Forever fully unveiled. Melts faces. October 2013.
-Transition into 2014 titles. First up is Bayonetta 2. Looks awesome. Coming early 2014.
-Yarn Yoshi
-Fire Emblem x SMT. Announced to be coming to the West, part of Nintendo's commitment to localizing Japanese titles.
-DQX coming to the West. Early 2014
-X coming worldwide 2014. Looks amazing. Xenoblade HD announced for this year as an appetizer.
- Random insane Japanese collaboration. Like Kirby Musou or something nuts. 2014.
-Smash Bros. detailed in full. 2014.
-One more thing- Retro. New IP, looks incredible. Coming next summer.


I want to predict there will be one genuine Japanese 3rd party surprise, but that isn't based on any real evidence so I didn't put it in. Wouldn't shock me though.

All in all I think that would be a great show and is frankly pretty realistic.

 

[Persona86]

Not good enough for me to be honest....and I wouldn’t even be surprised if they didn't have anything new.

Not good enough on paper, but I'm sure it will be good enough when we see it.

 

[Nibel]

Well seeing as RETRO haven't finished rendering the cinematics/cutting the final clips for the end of show teaser trailer yet, that has to be fake anyway.

 

[Aquamarine]

Well seeing as RETRO haven't finished rendering the cinematics/cutting the final clips for the end of show teaser trailer yet, that has to be fake anyway.

So, Mr. GAF Prophet...

I swear this Star Tropics 'rumour' just came straight from Acebandage's dreams...

It's either a new IP or Metroid 4. Perhaps not Prime, but Metroid none the less.

Which is it? New IP or Metroid 4?

 

[IntelliHeath]

I found a lot of info in those bins outside RETRO's building.

Oh Uber. If you are telling us the truth then I wonder why the hell Retro didn't shedder the papers.

Retro Ninjas are lazy.

 

[Smellycat]

lol you guys will never learn

 

[Hermii]

I hope there will be one totally surprising franchise x franchise.

 

[skull kid]

Yeah that's the closet thing we will get to Zelda Wii U this year, I don't expect anything for Zelda Wii U at E3 2013 but artwork would make me happy.
Also speaking about Super Smash Bros.4 I hope the online is actually good and stable...Not like Brawl's.

I'm confident he'll fix it, he talked about it on famitsu a few months back:

A reader of Japan’s Famitsu magazine contacted Sakurai to find out how online play in Super Smash Bros 4 would differ from the online fights in Super Smash Bros Brawl on Wii. The reader’s complaint was that when encountering random players online, they would typically engage in a standoff to see who would make the first move. “Nobody ever went on the attack; it was like everyone was taking the approach of waiting for the other guy to take the offensive.”
Sakurai responded in his column that he recognizes the problem. “I’d like people to take some freer approaches with their gameplay, but the sort of battle style you describe in your letter is not interesting or fun,” said Sakurai, “That’s why I’ll probably be thinking of a way to deal with that in the next game. We’ve learned a lot about net play since Brawl was released, after all, so a lot more is possible.”
The designer even said that he would have liked to patch Brawl, but fixing online multiplayer on Nintendo’s technologically archaic Wii platform wasn’t possible. “I suppose the face that we’ve still got no-fee online battles available in a game that was released five years ago is another cause of the problem. It would have been nice if we could have revised the game rules as appropriate, but with the system we had, that wasn’t possible.”

not too sure what he means with "no-fee" online battles, could be a bad translation..

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Eh, not really. It'll take a game like Smash or Mario Kart to get people to realize the Wii U exist, and that they need to buy a console to play the latest one. Nintendo hasn't really started on the marketing until just recently, and they still haven't put up any TV ads yet for it. Once the games start coming starting in August, I expect a really strong advertising push from Nintendo.

To start off with, we'll start seeing Wii U's on TV shows and the like as product placement in the fall. And more late night TV stuff, I know there was Jimmy Fallon's appearance last year, but you can do simple stuff like an 'update' one year later on Fallon and other late night shows. Getting it on Conan, Colbert's, etc would help a lot in terms of marketing.

Even if Nintendo actually started advertising, they would probably be drowned out by Microsoft and Sony. Mario Kart isn't even guaranteed to propel Nintendo ahead of the other two this holiday. Mario might me recognizable to kids, but they have no trouble playing Call of Duty or the newest Kinect game now.

I still think Nintendo will have a rough time. It's feasible that they will succeed, but you can't deny that this was the most abysmal console launch in recent memory (if not history).

 

[Übermatik]

Über's just been on the sherry, guys.

God I would love some sherry right now.

Has anyone got any sherry?

 

[jmizzal]

Well seeing as RETRO haven't finished rendering the cinematics/cutting the final clips for the end of show teaser trailer yet, that has to be fake anyway.

Joking?

 

[IntelliHeath]

Joking?

More likely or he's drunk.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

That game does not and will not ever exist. I explained in a previous post (my long one) why (in short, it doesn't make any sense).

Please link me to this post, because I would love to see this "explanation" you have for Wii Sports U not existing.

Because:

- At E3 2011, Nintendo showed footage of a Wii Sports U-like game. We now know that many of what was shown at E3 2011 actually turned into games (NSMBU, Wii FiT U, NintendoLand, Game & Wario)

- Shikamura Ninja says it is in development.

- Nintendo isn't going to abandon a franchise that put the Wii on the map and had a sequel that sold over 30 million copies.

 

[Tenki]

So when will REmake 2 be unveiled? At the start or at the end of the Direct?

Spoiler

 

[RyuKanSan]

What the hell I'll give it a shot (I'm going to assume this is for the most part Wii U only)

-Opens with Zelda: Wind Waker. Looks rad. Sept/Oct 2013
-Very brief montage of the summer Wii U lineup. Pikmin, Splinter Cell, Luigi U, W101
-Short trailer for Wii U Party. Fall 2013
-Trailer for Wii Fit U. Now moved to "holiday 2013"
-3rd party sizzle reel. Rayman/AC4/Watch Dogs/Arkham/Scribblenauts, maybe CoD. A few random Japanese announcements (maybe something like Samurai Warriors 4 or something). Nothing too mindblowing.
-Sonic Lost World full trailer. Fall 2013.
-Mario Kart fully unveiled. Looks surprisingly decent with a robust online mode. "Holiday 2013".
- Mario Universe Game of Forever fully unveiled. Melts faces. October 2013.
-Transition into 2014 titles. First up is Bayonetta 2. Looks awesome. Coming early 2014.
-Yarn Yoshi
-Fire Emblem x SMT. Announced to be coming to the West, part of Nintendo's commitment to localizing Japanese titles.
-DQX coming to the West. Early 2014
-X coming worldwide 2014. Looks amazing. Xenoblade HD announced for this year as an appetizer.
- Random insane Japanese collaboration. Like Kirby Musou or something nuts. 2014.
-Smash Bros. detailed in full. 2014.
-One more thing- Retro. New IP, looks incredible. Coming next summer.


I want to predict there will be one genuine Japanese 3rd party surprise, but that isn't based on any real evidence so I didn't put it in. Wouldn't shock me though.

All in all I think that would be a great show and is frankly pretty realistic.

i would shit my pants if this were true...*chants* please be true

 

[serplux]

So when will REmake 2 be unveiled? At the start or at the end of the Direct?

Before the StarTropics III reveal and after Uniracers remake is shown.

 

[Persona86]

Joking?

He's been in the bins outside Retro, supposedly retro throws away game secrets without shredding them, so that any crazy bin diver can steal them.

 

[schuelma]

i would shit my pants if this were true...*chants* please be true

The funny thing is there is exactly 1 game on that list that would be a complete surprise- the Japanese collaboration (and even that was kind of confirmed by Iwata who said more were in the works).

It would be really difficult for Nintendo to mess this up.

 

[Brainiac 8]

With a New Mario, new Mario Kart, new Smash Bros, and stuff we don't know about? Give me a break.

With people who already write off Nintendo, it won't be good enough no matter what they show.

 

[Scum]

What the hell I'll give it a shot (I'm going to assume this is for the most part Wii U only)

-Opens with Zelda: Wind Waker. Looks rad. Sept/Oct 2013
-Very brief montage of the summer Wii U lineup. Pikmin, Splinter Cell, Luigi U, W101
-Short trailer for Wii U Party. Fall 2013
-Trailer for Wii Fit U. Now moved to "holiday 2013"
-3rd party sizzle reel. Rayman/AC4/Watch Dogs/Arkham/Scribblenauts, maybe CoD. A few random Japanese announcements (maybe something like Samurai Warriors 4 or something). Nothing too mindblowing.
-Sonic Lost World full trailer. Fall 2013.
-Mario Kart fully unveiled. Looks surprisingly decent with a robust online mode. "Holiday 2013".
- Mario Universe Game of Forever fully unveiled. Melts faces. October 2013.
-Transition into 2014 titles. First up is Bayonetta 2. Looks awesome. Coming early 2014.
-Yarn Yoshi
-Fire Emblem x SMT. Announced to be coming to the West, part of Nintendo's commitment to localizing Japanese titles.
-DQX coming to the West. Early 2014
-X coming worldwide 2014. Looks amazing. Xenoblade HD announced for this year as an appetizer.
- Random insane Japanese collaboration. Like Kirby Musou or something nuts. 2014.
-Smash Bros. detailed in full. 2014.
-One more thing- Retro. New IP, looks incredible. Coming next summer.


I want to predict there will be one genuine Japanese 3rd party surprise, but that isn't based on any real evidence so I didn't put it in. Wouldn't shock me though.

All in all I think that would be a great show and is frankly pretty realistic.

This is perfectly reasonable. I'll take it.

 

[Nibel]

Aw man. New 3D Mario. How long has it been man.. so many people forget how incredible you are

I'm excited to see Smash, TW101, X, Retro's game, Bayonetta 2 etc., but a 3D Mario always will be something else; think this is my most anticipated title so far

 

[Hermii]

Wii U fit would be so much better as a summer title. Because the only thing Im exited for about it, is jogging with the fit meter.

 

[Hattori]

98 for GTA IV, that's crazy overrated

lol user reviews reflecting the real score

 

[Mpl90]

Aw man. New 3D Mario. How long has it been man.. so many people forget how incredible you are

I'm excited to see Smash, TW101, X, Retro's game, Bayonetta 2 etc., but a 3D Mario always will be something else; think this is my most anticipated title so far

How long has it been? Since November 2011

 

[ajjow]

What the hell I'll give it a shot (I'm going to assume this is for the most part Wii U only)

-Opens with Zelda: Wind Waker. Looks rad. Sept/Oct 2013
-Very brief montage of the summer Wii U lineup. Pikmin, Splinter Cell, Luigi U, W101
-Short trailer for Wii U Party. Fall 2013
-Trailer for Wii Fit U. Now moved to "holiday 2013"
-3rd party sizzle reel. Rayman/AC4/Watch Dogs/Arkham/Scribblenauts, maybe CoD. A few random Japanese announcements (maybe something like Samurai Warriors 4 or something). Nothing too mindblowing.
-Sonic Lost World full trailer. Fall 2013.
-Mario Kart fully unveiled. Looks surprisingly decent with a robust online mode. "Holiday 2013".
- Mario Universe Game of Forever fully unveiled. Melts faces. October 2013.
-Transition into 2014 titles. First up is Bayonetta 2. Looks awesome. Coming early 2014.
-Yarn Yoshi
-Fire Emblem x SMT. Announced to be coming to the West, part of Nintendo's commitment to localizing Japanese titles.
-DQX coming to the West. Early 2014
-X coming worldwide 2014. Looks amazing. Xenoblade HD announced for this year as an appetizer.
- Random insane Japanese collaboration. Like Kirby Musou or something nuts. 2014.
-Smash Bros. detailed in full. 2014.
-One more thing- Retro. New IP, looks incredible. Coming next summer.


I want to predict there will be one genuine Japanese 3rd party surprise, but that isn't based on any real evidence so I didn't put it in. Wouldn't shock me though.

All in all I think that would be a great show and is frankly pretty realistic.

Im OK with this, but I still have the impression of FZERO UX with sega...

 

[schuelma]

Im OK with this, but I still have the impression of FZERO UX with sega...

Thinking more about it, I do think we will probably see a teaser for a 2014 well known Nintendo IP- possibly StarFox.

 

[D-e-f-]

Please link me to this post, because I would love to see this "explanation" you have for Wii Sports U not existing.

Because:

- At E3 2011, Nintendo showed footage of a Wii Sports U-like game. We now know that many of what was shown at E3 2011 actually turned into games (NSMBU, Wii FiT U, NintendoLand, Game & Wario)

- Shikamura Ninja says it is in development.

- Nintendo isn't going to abandon a franchise that put the Wii on the map and had a sequel that sold over 30 million copies.

The relevant excerpt:

I know you're joking but I wanna address this in general:

Why do a lot of you even think something like Wii Sports U has to eventually exist? Because it has Wii in the title and was the reason the Wii blew up like it did? The actual game makes absolutely no sense on Wii U. There will be no Wii Sports U. The concept of sports was based on the idea of the Wii Remote, the interactivity it provided and the new possibilities of control. The Wii U cannot do that, since the Wii Remote is merely an additional controller. That golf thing they showed in 2011? That was a neat little concept demo to show "what you can do" with two screens. That has zero use in an actual game since it adds nothing to the experience. You already played Wii Remote Golf twice now. Reggie said it himself last year "Nintendo Land is the Wii Sports for the Wii U" (I believe it was during the "Not the same game, not the same content!" incident). The Wii U's strengths get shown off with Nintendo Land, there simply is no logical application for a sports game. What sport can you make as fun, simple and engaging as would be necessary for a Wii Sports-type experience with the GamePad? Barely any. And for those that do work, there's Mario & Sonic @ the Olympics.

Im OK with this, but I still have the impression of FZERO UX with sega...

"with SEGA"

You know, the guys at SEGA who made F-Zero GX are now the Yakuza studio, right? They have Yakuza games to make.

 

[Tripon]

My prediction: We're going to see a lot more HD classics from 3rd party developers, things that will get people really excited and buy consoles for it.

Starting off with F Zero GX, Capcom with HD remasters of RE Zero, and RE 1, and wait for it....

Square with a 3D Final Fantasy VI remake, with the GBA port as a VC title for the 3DS.


Hey, a person can dream right? But seriously, I except at least a couple of HD remakes/remasters to be announced at E3 for the Wii U.

 

[WordAssassin]

I feel like Wii U Fit is one of the very first games that should have been released for the system, not a year later. I don't want to have to go into Wii Mode each time I use it, dammit, and I want that pedometer for all the hikes I go on!

 

[Thrillhouse]

In all seriousness, how come no one has figured out what Retro is working on? Or why don't we at least have some substantial rumours? Seeing as a great number of people care a great deal about it, somone should have stalked their offices by now. I mean there has to be some GAFers living in Austin, how hard can it be to swing by during work overs and peak through a window? If it's above ground level, climb some nearby hill and use binoculars. Eavesdrop in the parking lot, follow some employees when they go out for lunch etc. I know that I would at least try if they were based in my town.

Sure they have NDAs and all that but it's not like they work for the CIA, they are producing a video game. I find it hard to belive that they should have big security measures. Surely they will talk about it during lunch-breaks, work close to a window without blinds and so on. Beyond that we have all the relatives, friends and so on that should know something and could least put out a rumour, it's not like it can be traced back to the source if they are discrete.

 

[serplux]

So, apparently all three Sonic games are coming this year. From a Nintendo of Germany PR:

"Today, they (Sega) revealed further details of the second of three titles, which the two companies will release exclusively on Wii U and 3DS. All three games will be released this year."

Untranslated (does someone have a better translation lol?):

Heute enthüllten sie weitere Details zum zweiten von insgesamt drei Titeln, die die beiden Videospielunternehmen exklusiv für Wii U und Nintendo 3DS herausbringen werden. Alle drei Spiele erscheinen noch in diesem Jahr.

 

[JoeM86]

So, apparently all three Sonic games are coming this year. From a Nintendo of Germany PR:



Untranslated:

That's one more game to add to the likely to be included list

 

[Exterminieren]

In all seriousness, how come no one has figured out what Retro is working on? Or why don't we at least have some substantial rumours? Seeing as a great number of people care a great deal about it, somone should have stalked their offices by now. I mean there has to be some GAFers living in Austin, how hard can it be to swing by during work overs and peak through a window? If it's above ground level, climb some nearby hill and use binoculars. Eavesdrop in the parking lot, follow some employees when they go out for lunch etc. I know that I would at least try if they were based in my town.

Sure they have NDAs and all that but it's not like they work for the CIA, they are producing a video game. I find it hard to belive that they should have big security measures. Surely they will talk about it during lunch-breaks, work close to a window without blinds and so on. Beyond that we have all the relatives, friends and so on that should know something and could least put out a rumour, it's not like it can be traced back to the source if they are discrete.

You're legitimately wondering why people don't stalk Retro and invade the privacy of their workers?

they are producing a video game.

 

[Mpl90]

In all seriousness, how come no one has figured out what Retro is working on? Or why don't we at least have some substantial rumours? Seeing as a great number of people care a great deal about it, somone should have stalked their offices by now. I mean there has to be some GAFers living in Austin, how hard can it be to swing by during work overs and peak through a window? If it's above ground level, climb some nearby hill and use binoculars. Eavesdrop in the parking lot, follow some employees when they go out for lunch etc. I know that I would at least try if they were based in my town.

Sure they have NDAs and all that but it's not like they work for the CIA, they are producing a video game. I find it hard to belive that they should have big security measures. Surely they will talk about it during lunch-breaks, work close to a window without blinds and so on. Beyond that we have all the relatives, friends and so on that should know something and could least put out a rumour, it's not like it can be traced back to the source if they are discrete.

I know why: ninjas.

With MIB like flashes.
And lasers and bullets coming from their bodies.
And drills. Especially GIGA drills.

 

[DaBoss]

In all seriousness, how come no one has figured out what Retro is working on? Or why don't we at least have some substantial rumours? Seeing as a great number of people care a great deal about it, somone should have stalked their offices by now. I mean there has to be some GAFers living in Austin, how hard can it be to swing by during work overs and peak through a window? If it's above ground level, climb some nearby hill and use binoculars. Eavesdrop in the parking lot, follow some employees when they go out for lunch etc. I know that I would at least try if they were based in my town.

Sure they have NDAs and all that but it's not like they work for the CIA, they are producing a video game. I find it hard to belive that they should have big security measures. Surely they will talk about it during lunch-breaks, work close to a window without blinds and so on. Beyond that we have all the relatives, friends and so on that should know something and could least put out a rumour, it's not like it can be traced back to the source if they are discrete.

EDIT: Wait wtf, what kind of shit are you saying?

 

[Blood Diamonds]

In all seriousness, how come no one has figured out what Retro is working on? Or why don't we at least have some substantial rumours? Seeing as a great number of people care a great deal about it, somone should have stalked their offices by now. I mean there has to be some GAFers living in Austin, how hard can it be to swing by during work overs and peak through a window? If it's above ground level, climb some nearby hill and use binoculars. Eavesdrop in the parking lot, follow some employees when they go out for lunch etc. I know that I would at least try if they were based in my town.

Sure they have NDAs and all that but it's not like they work for the CIA, they are producing a video game. I find it hard to belive that they should have big security measures. Surely they will talk about it during lunch-breaks, work close to a window without blinds and so on. Beyond that we have all the relatives, friends and so on that should know something and could least put out a rumour, it's not like it can be traced back to the source if they are discrete.

Dude what
who would do that?

 

[Anth0ny]

This seems realistic to me. Wouldn't be surprised at all if we didn't get any X, SMTxFE or Yoshi. Wouldn't be disappointed if it turns out to be real.

Smash Bros gets 4 minutes ^_^

 

[Volotaire]

In all seriousness, how come no one has figured out what Retro is working on? Or why don't we at least have some substantial rumours? Seeing as a great number of people care a great deal about it, somone should have stalked their offices by now. I mean there has to be some GAFers living in Austin, how hard can it be to swing by during work overs and peak through a window? If it's above ground level, climb some nearby hill and use binoculars. Eavesdrop in the parking lot, follow some employees when they go out for lunch etc. I know that I would at least try if they were based in my town.

Sure they have NDAs and all that but it's not like they work for the CIA, they are producing a video game. I find it hard to belive that they should have big security measures. Surely they will talk about it during lunch-breaks, work close to a window without blinds and so on. Beyond that we have all the relatives, friends and so on that should know something and could least put out a rumour, it's not like it can be traced back to the source if they are discrete.

Lol, this sounds very weird to do.

 

[LtOrange]

What the hell I'll give it a shot (I'm going to assume this is for the most part Wii U only)

-Opens with Zelda: Wind Waker. Looks rad. Sept/Oct 2013
-Very brief montage of the summer Wii U lineup. Pikmin, Splinter Cell, Luigi U, W101
-Short trailer for Wii U Party. Fall 2013
-Trailer for Wii Fit U. Now moved to "holiday 2013"
-3rd party sizzle reel. Rayman/AC4/Watch Dogs/Arkham/Scribblenauts, maybe CoD. A few random Japanese announcements (maybe something like Samurai Warriors 4 or something). Nothing too mindblowing.
-Sonic Lost World full trailer. Fall 2013.
-Mario Kart fully unveiled. Looks surprisingly decent with a robust online mode. "Holiday 2013".
- Mario Universe Game of Forever fully unveiled. Melts faces. October 2013.
-Transition into 2014 titles. First up is Bayonetta 2. Looks awesome. Coming early 2014.
-Yarn Yoshi
-Fire Emblem x SMT. Announced to be coming to the West, part of Nintendo's commitment to localizing Japanese titles.
-DQX coming to the West. Early 2014
-X coming worldwide 2014. Looks amazing. Xenoblade HD announced for this year as an appetizer.
- Random insane Japanese collaboration. Like Kirby Musou or something nuts. 2014.
-Smash Bros. detailed in full. 2014.
-One more thing- Retro. New IP, looks incredible. Coming next summer.


I want to predict there will be one genuine Japanese 3rd party surprise, but that isn't based on any real evidence so I didn't put it in. Wouldn't shock me though.

All in all I think that would be a great show and is frankly pretty realistic.

Microsoft/Sony would not stand a chance in my book if this happened. I hope their commitment to localization actually shows.

 

[JoeM86]

Sure they have NDAs and all that but it's not like they work for the CIA, they are producing a video game. I find it hard to belive that they should have big security measures. Surely they will talk about it during lunch-breaks, work close to a window without blinds and so on. Beyond that we have all the relatives, friends and so on that should know something and could least put out a rumour, it's not like it can be traced back to the source if they are discrete.

I have posted internal leaks before and I got burned for it. It is actually really serious business. Leaking can cost people their jobs, it can damage potential financial bottomlines and potentially damage the business.

All staff sign a non disclosure agreement, and if they violate it and are caught, which is very likely in this day and age, they're screwed.

They think of their families first, before pleasing the internet crowd

 

[BGBW]

http://i.imgur.com/U6q3FHs.png

EDIT: Wait wtf, what kind of shit are you saying?

One has to wonder why they chose to edit the o into an a when they could have just lopped off the top of the d.

 

[Tunavi]

galaxy 3?

 

[SteeloDMZ]

 

[DaBoss]

One has to wonder why they chose to edit the o into an a when they could have just lopped off the top of the d.

lol yea, I've always been weirded out by the "a" in that pic.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Directs never have non-Nintendo employees speaking in them, correct?

 

[Exterminieren]

Directs never have non-Nintendo employees speaking in them, correct?

No. They've had people from Capcom, Sega and Level-5, and that's just off the top of my head.