I haven't read the books, so after last season, a friend who is a book-reader told me "I'm so looking forward to next season", I told him to shut up and not say anything, but he had to add "Of course, but you know the wedding between Robb and Talisa? Not good". I knew Robb had broken an oath, I knew it would have bad consequences in some form or another, but once he points out that specific event out off all other events that could have bad consequences, I knew right away death would be involved (that's how GoT rolls). It was more brutal than I thought though, didn't think both Robb AND Cat would die. Book readers don't really have bad intentions, they are excited, but just pointing one thing out gives it importance and spoils some of the impact.
Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
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Because a bastard has more claim to a house seat than some distant cousin from a distant house. So, for example, if Bran and Rickon and Robb (lol) and Sansa and Arya were all to bite the dust, then Jon would have the most legitimate claim to the throne. Of course, it would be contested, but his would be technically legitimate.
There are more than a few times in English history in which wars were started because an entire generation was wiped out and some bastard came out of the woodworks with an army.
Bastards in Westeros have no claim unless they are legitimised by a king.
Joffrey had Robert's bastards killed due to the incest rumours and the hair colour being a sign of a true Baratheon as far as I recall.
I think it's important to note that when we're talking about succession, especially in the sort of setting the show is in, it's ultimately about how many people agree with your claim, and how many of those people are willing to potentially die to protect that claim. In the case of Jon, he's so far away from all the political action, and he already has an oath to the Night's Watch. His claim to Winterfell is a stretch. In the case of Robert's bastards, Robert was the king of the Seven Kingdoms, and he has no real legitimate heir. If the truth was exposed that his "children" are all born of Lannister incest, and that he had fathered bastards throughout King's Landing, then there would be many people interested in picking any one of those and using them as a figurehead for a claim in the rebellion.
It's all political in the end. Whether people follow what you say determines whether your claim stands. Law or otherwise. If it were entirely up to the law though, I don't think bastards actually have any legal claim. Could be wrong though, I'm not a Westeros family lawyer!
It's all political in the end. Whether people follow what you say determines whether your claim stands. Law or otherwise. If it were entirely up to the law though, I don't think bastards actually have any legal claim. Could be wrong though, I'm not a Westeros family lawyer!
Winter is coming?
POWERSPHERE
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Just watched this now, and fucking jesus christ hell spawn... Big moves.
Louis Cypher
Banned
Yeah I mean everybody basically backed Robert in the end when he was an usurper himself
All laws can be broken through politics
POWERSPHERE
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When this guys on screen, all I can think of is him in an LA acting class not getting roles for years and doing shitty small theatre shakespeare. He's so cheesy.
Right. The important part would be how many swords you could raise and a bastard of the old king (or in Jon's case the house lord) would likely be able to raise more swords to the cause than elsewise.
In the base of Robert's bastards, the Baratheons had a lot of love (and were probably owed a lot of favors). Renly was able to raise and army of 100k and Stannis an additional 40k (I think those numbers are right) based on rumors of Joffery's insestuous origin. I believe in the world of Westeros that Stannis still has more legitimacy than Gendry at this point, but if Stannis were to kick the bucket than the next best thing for the Baratheon bannermen might well have to be Gendry.
In ye olden times, you could legitimize a bastard to make him a possible heir. I don't think we've seen that in GoT yet, but since it borrows many customs and rules from medieval times, it is possible. William the Conqueror was a bastard and was King of England. I think the only person who could legitimize them would be maybe the king. Bran is technically the heir to Winterfell, but I supposed he has the authority to legitimize Jon, which would technically make him the heir I guess.
Legally, Stannis should be the rightful king since Robert has no trueborn legitimate sons, so it passes to the next oldest brother.
In memory of reading the book - lest we forget (episode nine made sure we didn't) I made this bad gif:
I want a SunhiLegend style gif of that entire scene with the book throwing and his talking to his parents in bed.
soundscream
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I hope we find out that Benjen Stark isnt dead.
Was that the guy who went beyond the wall?
soundscream
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Arjen
Member
Right. i was just wondering if Sansa, Bran, Arya an Rickon all died, would John be able to claim the thrown. But i agree, that would probably only work if he had people backing him upand helping him.
Still, i think it's going to be interesting what will happen to Winterfell now, Tyrion will probably be king of the north now? And with John fleeing from the wildlings and the Nightwatch might leave some room open for him to persue it?
I don't know. I just get the impression that some people think this story is about "the Starks versus the world" or something. Maybe because the show started out with heavy focus on them? I haven't read the books but I don't think that is what this story is. And if people are watching the show for that, I don't know... I guess everyone has their reasons for watching.
Ah him, thanks!
Napoleonthechimp
Member
He rebelled against a mad king that was hated by the majority.
Well look at it this way, if you were a northern bannerman and had the choice between Lord Tyrion Lannister and Lord Jon (son of Eddard) Snow, who would you rally behind?
Which is why Renly was able to raise such a large army compared to him. Well that and being married into the Tyrells.
Arjen
Member
Well, Tyrion oviously.
I'm just thinking outlod though, because i'm wondering were they'll be going with John.
I mean he doens't really have a goal anymore now.
soundscream
Member
I dont know Tyrion might step up the Norths brothel game.
If I were Jon my goal would be to get back in good graces with Ygritte and fuck all that Night's Watch shit. I have more in common with Walder Frey than I thought.
Oh I see, short jokes now that he's settled down and married?
Jon has too much Stark in him to be able to do that.
Victory Red
Member
I think we might need to start a support group.
It wasn't that crazy, you arent missing much. All this hyperbole is ridiculous. It was interesting twist, nothing more.
Treefingers
Member
as a non-book reader I respectfully disagree. This was the most shocking (and horrifying) episode of TV I've seen.
This is funny because when my wife came home I told her there was a huge thread on the main page about reactions, so something must have gone down. We had a few errands to run before we could watch it yesterday, and so we were joking around that everyone dies. All of them. I also joked that it was just like a Shakespeare play.
Phonomezer
Banned
My Facebook is still blowing up over this.
Unarguably a bad thing, but yes it does shake things up.
Phonomezer
Banned
Sorry if this has already been posted, but lol
It's a great thing from the production budget standpoint.
"What are we going to do with all this extra cash?"
BertramCooper
Banned
This is probably the best one I've come across.
There hasn't been an official full world map as far as I know.
EDIT: There are a few vague book spoilers in the map notes. Probably best to avoid reading them.
10 Things I Hate About You was pretty okay.
Hot Coldman
Banned
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