Critical Analysis - MGS2

Revan

Member
I saw this on reddit, searched for it here and found nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T-2YuPGYabw#!

It's about 40 mins long and has some really interesting insight into why MGS2 could/would/is considered to be post modern. It pointed out a bunch of things that I wasn't aware of in the game and I'd thought I'd seen it all in MGS2.

I searched to see if these guys were banned or not (my first thread) so my apologies in advance if they are.
 
MGS2 is a very divisive game. But there is one thing people can't deny, and that is that there is a lot to dig into, discover or discuss and analyze.
 
Awesome. I wanted to create a LTTP thread for this game a couple of weeks ago, but never got to doing so. I'll watch this video when I have time one of these days, thanks for sharing it.
 
Awesome. I wanted to create a LTTP thread for this game a couple of weeks ago, but never got to doing so. I'll watch this video when I have time one of these days, thanks for sharing it.

Makes sure to play and beat the game before watching it - there are MASSIVE spoilers all through the video.
 
This guy is better, he's done 40 minute in-depth reviews of the 3D Zeldas and Metal Gears...
Someone posted a link to his Majora's Mask video here on GAF and I ended up watching all of them, and he is spot on with his observations.
 
MGS2 is probably my least favorite in the main-line MGS games, but holy lord. I respect Kojima a lot for MGS2 because I think what he did took balls.
 
Great video. Love the comparison with Spec Ops.

The postmodern themes are just one reason why MGS2 is one of the best games ever made. The gameplay design, sheer attention to detail, layered story, and unorthodox plot (you must fight the former president of the United States while under the control of what is essentially the Illuminati all while being in a recreation of the first MGS as a means to test and demonstrate societal control) all contribute as well.

- Hundreds of VR and Alternative missions

- Dog tag collecting

- The most easter eggs of any iteration in the series. And this is a series KNOWN for easter eggs

- Smooth, super responsive controls. Utilized pressure sensitive buttons.

- Most challenging game in the series on the highest difficulties.

- Graphics still hold up thanks to smooth textures and 60FPS. This applies to MGS3's HD iteration as well.

- No useless mechanics like CAMO, HEAL, or FOOD. Streamlined but not shallow. (note: I am not hating on MGS3, that's a darn fine game as well)

- People who hate on Raiden are hilarious since Raiden is an avatar of the player in every sense of the word. People who hate Raiden subconsciously hate themselves and need Snake/Big Boss to fulfill their macho fantasies.

- Speaking of Solid Snake, he is at his best here. Perhaps past his physical prime from Shadow Moses, but in terms of experience and wisdom at the top of his game before he becomes a mute in MGS4.

- Snake Tales

- You fight a bald, fat wino on rollerskates while he plants bombs around the heliport you're fighting on. Nothing in videogames has been more creative than this while still managing to be strangely cohesive and sensible.

- Presentation is perfect. The story doesn't solely take place in the exposition-heavy cutscenes. The gameplay itself is also the story.

Best game evar!

Unfortunately, I think the video will do little to dissuade critics who have denominated MGS2 as a tryhard "2deep4u" disappointment that only hipsters and pseudo-intellectuals enjoy. And those criticisms are from the few who gave the controls and game mechanics an actual fair chance to finish the game on a decent difficulty.
 
Great Link. The sad part about the MGS2 backlash, is that a lot of people skipped MGS3, which to me is the best in the series.
 
MGS2 is fucking amazing. Just like the others. this post brought to you by bud light platinum, shitty but gets the job done like hideo.
 
The fact and realisation that Raiden was being set up in SSS and playing out like a rerun of Shadow Moses, then learning SSS was Solid Snake Simulation before the crazy last act involving a gibberish speaking virtual Colonel, vengeful vampires and a treaty on digital leadership before fighting an octopus like man on a building in downtown Wall street after crashing a big submersible into it?

Kojima you so cray but it was amazing
 
MGS2 had some of the best cinematic moments in gaming like the helicopter cutscene DAMN and the ending, it was just insanity.
 
I think i have been praising this game in about every thread about it but i feel like i need to do it again, i played this game for the first time 3 years ago and it was mind blowing, it's themes are maybe even more relevant today than back when it was released. I can't even imagine playing this game when it came out.

Never knew about the dialogue changes depending on whether you completed the tanker mission. MY mind is blown.

WHAT.. You just keep discovering new things about this game :D
 
I can't even imagine playing this game when it came out.

I was in 5th grade. Rented it back in 2001.

Then rented it three more times until my dad got fed up and bought it for me.

I still remember how my brother and I got stuck in Arsenal and actually tried turning the PS2 off to see if it would advance the game. My brother would replay the Vamp sniper battle to see if he could kill him fast so the events that followed would be different. We saw Arsenal as an elaborate game over lol
 
MGS2 shall forever be one of my top games of all time. Such a complete package, so unique and creative, and something that took absolute complete advantage of everything the PS2 had to offer. The use of pressure sensitive controls blew me away.
 
I've got a lot to say about MGS2 that I know many here will disagree with, but hear me out.

As far as being a game is concerned, I did not like the inclusion of tranquilizer weapons. It feels like a cheap way out of making it possible for there to be a no kill run, and it effectively makes stealth braindead to accomplish (unless you're playing on the highest difficulties, something most people did NOT give the game enough of a chance to get up to trying). The second act of the game is pretty much one of the least fun things in MGS that isn't playing through Act 3 of MGS4.

The Big Shell is more complex than the tanker and is a larger area to explore, but in terms of design it was not as interesting to me visually, or even from a gameplay standpoint. I'd have preferred that more time was spent on the tanker, and while it was important that the Marines get removed and replaced with Russians immediately, I'd have liked your time on the tanker to involve stealthing around the Marines BEFORE the Russians came onto the scene.

The boss battles I felt were mostly uninteresting to me. As characters, Dead Cell did not have quite the same appeal to me as the bosses from MGS1 and later in MGS3. The RAY battle at the end was tedious and felt like it dragged on for too long even on the Normal difficulty. Limiting the actual final boss to the use of the sword (that I did not care much for the controls of) did not make me enjoy the fight despite the actual idea (sword duel, but the other guy is more or less cheating) sounding badass by itself.

The Harrier, however, was the best Boss fight of the game (and among the best of the whole franchise IMO). After more or less getting cockblocked out of a proper fight with Fortune, and the disappointment of Fluffy Rollerblade Guy, the Harrier is an intense battle on a bridge RIGGED TO EXPLODE (and it DOES during the course of the battle). Compared to what it was supposed to be an analog for, the Harrier is way more exciting to fight. It can do comparatively more and its capabilities were used in interesting ways.

As far as the writing is concerned, I would have been happier by omitting Rose in her entirety. Whatever message she was a part of to the player, I did not give a flying shit about what day it was, nor did I care for any of the conversations she held with Raiden. It was an extremely ham-handed way of trying to inject drama into an already pretty dramatic situation. I'd say this is a problem with most of the Big Shell chapter (and MGS 2 as a whole): all of the writing and the drama just happens to conveniently have gathered all of the players together. Even before the final scenes played out, I was just not able to care for Otacon's drama. Emma's tragedy was preceded by an ESCORT MISSION (and I profess to hating these in almost every game I've ever played so it really colored my judgement of her character arc), and I never felt compelled to care about her, or care about protecting her.

Raiden himself I actually don't have an issue with as an idea, and I appreciated the idea that he was to allow us to see Snake from the "outside" as it were. It was the execution that bothered me. I've read multiple analysis that read him as a character that represents the player, and while I respect that, I don't find that aspect alone making him praiseworthy. It's not that he's whiny, it's that he's whiny in a way that doesn't garner any sympathy whatsoever. I can't believe his whininess. Rather than making his whining feel like the result of actual stress from the mission, it felt written as though "Okay, right now he needs to whine about something because its going to be a change in the gameplay." Ironically, I think Metal Gear Revengeance of all things does a better job at illustrating the character's inner turmoil regarding what he does and why he does it.

I disliked how in MGS1 some of the most important plot reveals happened on the Codec, and MGS2 takes that even further, with that final lengthy conversation near the end of the game. MGS is known for massive exposition dumps, I accept these as part of the series, but heads talking at eachother and pantomiming surprise or anger is the least interesting way of delivering plot I can think of. We may as well have stripped away the in game visuals and replaced them with an FMV of the actors in a booth reading the lines at eachother. MGS3 I think does a better job at juggling the Codec and regular cutscenes of any game in the main series.

However, despite all my own personal criticisms, I'm very happy that we got MGS2 as is. Even before Spec Ops tried desperately to railroad players into doing terrible things and then make them feel bad for it, MGS2 was getting people to actually think about the stories of the games they played. It made them consider alternatives to just blowing everyone away. It got people talking. While it did not necessarily have its intended effect on its entire audience, the game deserves no small amount of praise for having the balls to be what it was, when it was. The only other Metal Gears I've spent more time playing and thinking about are MGS3 and Peace Walker. As far as the "classic" gameplay of the series, it's the best send off it could have recieved before evolving to something greater.
 
One of the greatest games on PS2. I still have my original clear PAL DVD case around here somewhere, complete with the silver lettering and that infamous typo on the back.

The end battle with all of its absurdity had me literally gasping for air. Impressive, if genuinely nonsensical.

With all that, I am thrilled to see what MGSV will bring in terms of set pieces.
 
what typo?
mgs2palback.png
 
You have very valid, understandable criticisms for the most part skull leader.

The RAY battle at the end was tedious and felt like it dragged on for too long even on the Normal difficulty.

Not even, if you shoot the legs first and then the heads you can complete that fight in under 120 seconds. Probably even under 60.

Ironically, I think Metal Gear Revengeance of all things does a better job at illustrating the character's inner turmoil regarding what he does and why he does it.

Maybe, but Revengeance was an extension of MGS4 Raiden which may as well be a different character entirely than MGS2 Raiden.

MGS3 I think does a better job at juggling the Codec and regular cutscenes of any game in the main series.

I agree but MGS3 is guilty too, and where it's guilty I think it's worse. The Boss's long winded introduction. EVA telling you why she defected. Silly and needless.

As far as the "classic" gameplay of the series, it's the best send off it could have recieved before evolving to something greater.

Eh, I'd recommend playing the Substance missions. MGS2 still has the most engaging and intuitive gameplay imo.
 
You have very valid, understandable criticisms for the most part skull leader.

Not even, if you shoot the legs first and then the heads you can complete that fight in under 120 seconds. Probably even under 60.

No way. I cannot believe this is true at all. It's been a while since I've played the game, but I watch the DrK/uKnighted/Threedogg streams all the time and that last RAY level when you fight the sets goes for way longer than that.
 
Thank you for the video. While I loathe the game, it gives me a new found appreciation for what Kojima created.
 
Will watch. There is a lot to talk about, when it comes to this masterpiece. People often laugh at me, when I say that that this is the best MGS, but whatever.
 
Thanks for sharing the link. I really enjoyed my time with MGS2 and this video was a walk down memory lane. I loved MGS3 but think that as an experience MGS2 had much more of a lasting imapct on me. Never played MGS4 (never got a PS3) but this has reignited my curiousity towards it.
 
Amazing. Everytime I read one of these it makes me sad I don't have a Ps2 anymore. Such an incredible game, defined what next generation games should be.
 
I just completed it again last week after many years.

If I wouldn't know how Kojima derailed the series by now, MGS2 would have brought back the love I once had for the series. I'll never understand why Kojima needed to add so much stupid shit to the series over the past years and damn, seeing again how fucking cool Snake wasi n MGS2, it really hurts knowing what joke he has become in MGS4. Damn you Kojima....

I still think he lost his mind sometime shortly after finishing MGS2.
 
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