Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

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D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
abuC said:
Damn man, we have to wait almost a year for new episodes after Sunday.
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Perfect opportunity to catch up and read the books (or listen to the amazing audiobooks). And this isn't meant to be "Oh the books are so much better" argument. Just that because they're splitting events from a book across multiple seasons, this season is ending with a narrative stop that was never meant to be. Martin never intended people to be kept on the edge of their seat at this point in the narrative.
 
A

abuC

Member
DrForester said:
Perfect opportunity to catch up and read the books (or listen to the amazing audiobooks). And this isn't meant to be "Oh the books are so much better" argument. Just that because they're splitting events from a book across multiple seasons, this season is ending with a narrative stop that was never meant to be. Martin never intended people to be kept on the edge of their seat at this point in the narrative.
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Sajjaja said:
Enough time to read the books! Isn't season 4 the second half of book 3 or something? That's what my book reader friends have told me. I can't wait.
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I'm not going to read the books, I enjoy shows/movies less when I already know what's going to happen. I can barely get into The Walking Dead for that reason.
 
J

jaxword

Member
Speevy said:
I think what most people miss is that even the "baddest" characters want peace for Westeros.

None of these kings ever wanted people to suffer, just kneel.
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That's because, like the real world, there's far less "evil" people out there and the majority are just greedy and selfish.
 
R

ReturnOfTheRAT

Member
Credit to A Cast of Kings bringing it to my attention.

After doing a search, apparently the other thread has discussed it. I think there has been a discussion along these lines, but before episode 9 it would be a spoiler video, now that it has past, it's the Roose Change: The Lannister Honeypot. It's a fan created video, intended to prove that Talisa was a spy, the person sending Tywin letters inform him of Rob's moves.
 
M

morikaze

Banned
HyruleGuardian said:
I've noticed that I've reacted differently to the events of the Red Wedding than the vast majority of people.

It seems that most people now view George RR Martin to be a sadist who simply wants the bad guys to win and bad things to happen and we're heading for a story where the Lannisters continue to torture the Starks forever and the bad guys always win.

I really think GRRM is just setting everyone up... brilliantly.

In Martin's world, Robb Stark was simply too obvious of a hero. As shocking as Ned's death was, if the show had simply followed the formula of "father dies, son takes up mantle and avenges him and delivers justice" - well, that's a story that's been done before too.

But now what remains are the scattered Stark children, all who find themselves in challenging circumstances.

Try to find the odd duck here...

Robb - was made King of the North after the death of his father

Sansa - has been victimized and imprisoned by the Lannisters since Season 1, has had her world view shattered. She has learned life is not a song.

Arya - was there for the scene during the murder of her father, mother and brother. has been on the run with no where to go for 2 years.

Bran - was crippled by Jaime Lannister.

Jon - he's the same age as Robb, grew up in the same home, yet instead of being given Winterfell, he was given the Wall for life.

...

Robb stands out. He was the only overdog in the group.

It seems that most people simply can't envision how the Starks are going to make a difference now that Eddard, Robb and Cat are gone.

But their deaths only intensify our rooting interest in the remaining Starks. How badly do you want the Stark children to find their way in this brutal world? I've never been rooting for a group of fictional characters so hard.

I think what George RR Martin is really doing is setting up a revenge arc that will ultimately be more satisfying than anything we've experienced in fiction before. That of course doesn't mean all of the Starks will have a happy ending (a true happy ending is already impossible).

...

I've gone on a bit - but all I'm really saying is that while most people seem to think Martin is sadistic / the story is going to simply shift to Daenerys now, I think that is the further thing from the case. I think this is still a Stark revenge story, but in a completely unexpected way - and the stakes are higher than ever.
Click to expand...

THIS
 
R

ramyeon

Member
ReturnOfTheRAT said:
Credit to A Cast of Kings bringing it to my attention.

After doing a search, apparently the other thread has discussed it. I think there has been a discussion along these lines, but before episode 9 it would be a spoiler video, now that it has past, it's the Roose Change: The Lannister Honeypot. It's a fan created video, intended to prove that Talisa was a spy, the person sending Tywin letters inform him of Rob's moves.
Click to expand...
The evidence for this theory was always pretty loose. And imo it's pretty much debunked now that she was killed in the RW.
 
F

Fisico

Member
HyruleGuardian said:
Try to find the odd duck here...

Robb - was made King of the North after the death of his father

Sansa - has been victimized and imprisoned by the Lannisters since Season 1, has had her world view shattered. She has learned life is not a song.

Arya - was there for the scene during the murder of her father, mother and brother. has been on the run with no where to go for 2 years.

Bran - was crippled by Jaime Lannister.

Jon - he's the same age as Robb, grew up in the same home, yet instead of being given Winterfell, he was given the Wall for life.
Click to expand...

Rickkon - He's perfectly fine, on the run with Osha to reach one of the House which remains loyal to the Stark
 
B

BananaBomb

Member
HyruleGuardian said:
I've noticed that I've reacted differently to the events of the Red Wedding than the vast majority of people.

It seems that most people now view George RR Martin to be a sadist who simply wants the bad guys to win and bad things to happen and we're heading for a story where the Lannisters continue to torture the Starks forever and the bad guys always win.

I really think GRRM is just setting everyone up... brilliantly.

In Martin's world, Robb Stark was simply too obvious of a hero. As shocking as Ned's death was, if the show had simply followed the formula of "father dies, son takes up mantle and avenges him and delivers justice" - well, that's a story that's been done before too.

But now what remains are the scattered Stark children, all who find themselves in challenging circumstances.

Try to find the odd duck here...

Robb - was made King of the North after the death of his father

Sansa - has been victimized and imprisoned by the Lannisters since Season 1, has had her world view shattered. She has learned life is not a song.

Arya - was there for the scene during the murder of her father, mother and brother. has been on the run with no where to go for 2 years.

Bran - was crippled by Jaime Lannister.

Jon - he's the same age as Robb, grew up in the same home, yet instead of being given Winterfell, he was given the Wall for life.

...

Robb stands out. He was the only overdog in the group.

It seems that most people simply can't envision how the Starks are going to make a difference now that Eddard, Robb and Cat are gone.

But their deaths only intensify our rooting interest in the remaining Starks. How badly do you want the Stark children to find their way in this brutal world? I've never been rooting for a group of fictional characters so hard.

I think what George RR Martin is really doing is setting up a revenge arc that will ultimately be more satisfying than anything we've experienced in fiction before. That of course doesn't mean all of the Starks will have a happy ending (a true happy ending is already impossible).

...

I've gone on a bit - but all I'm really saying is that while most people seem to think Martin is sadistic / the story is going to simply shift to Daenerys now, I think that is the further thing from the case. I think this is still a Stark revenge story, but in a completely unexpected way - and the stakes are higher than ever.
Click to expand...

let's cool down a bit out here
 
O

overcast

Member
My God man. I just watched the 9th episode with my GF. She hasn't watched any episode and she was in shock. I knew Rob was fucking up for a while here, but I didn't see that coming. Jesus. That hit hard. Cat yelling; poor Arya...

Don't even know where the Starks go from here. 2 questions.

Is Jon Snow considered a "Stark" by the world?

Was Tyrion accepting (hesitantly) his dads command to marry Sansa a parallel to Rob refusing to marry that guys daughter? Rob paid for his refusal, Tyrion is fine.
 
T

televator

Member
HyruleGuardian said:
I've noticed that I've reacted differently to the events of the Red Wedding than the vast majority of people.

It seems that most people now view George RR Martin to be a sadist who simply wants the bad guys to win and bad things to happen and we're heading for a story where the Lannisters continue to torture the Starks forever and the bad guys always win.

I really think GRRM is just setting everyone up... brilliantly.

In Martin's world, Robb Stark was simply too obvious of a hero. As shocking as Ned's death was, if the show had simply followed the formula of "father dies, son takes up mantle and avenges him and delivers justice" - well, that's a story that's been done before too.

But now what remains are the scattered Stark children, all who find themselves in challenging circumstances.

Try to find the odd duck here...

Robb - was made King of the North after the death of his father

Sansa - has been victimized and imprisoned by the Lannisters since Season 1, has had her world view shattered. She has learned life is not a song.

Arya - was there for the scene during the murder of her father, mother and brother. has been on the run with no where to go for 2 years.

Bran - was crippled by Jaime Lannister.

Jon - he's the same age as Robb, grew up in the same home, yet instead of being given Winterfell, he was given the Wall for life.

...

Robb stands out. He was the only overdog in the group.

It seems that most people simply can't envision how the Starks are going to make a difference now that Eddard, Robb and Cat are gone.

But their deaths only intensify our rooting interest in the remaining Starks. How badly do you want the Stark children to find their way in this brutal world? I've never been rooting for a group of fictional characters so hard.

I think what George RR Martin is really doing is setting up a revenge arc that will ultimately be more satisfying than anything we've experienced in fiction before. That of course doesn't mean all of the Starks will have a happy ending (a true happy ending is already impossible).

...

I've gone on a bit - but all I'm really saying is that while most people seem to think Martin is sadistic / the story is going to simply shift to Daenerys now, I think that is the further thing from the case. I think this is still a Stark revenge story, but in a completely unexpected way - and the stakes are higher than ever.
Click to expand...

Or GRRM, knowing that people are now rooting for them that much harder knows that killing them off will make them that much more upset...

Honestly though, I'm ridding it out to see where things go. I mean I knew there was a lot more story to go and I wasn't expecting Rob to be the one guy to slay the Lanister scum, take the throne, survive the dragons, deal with the wildlings, and repel the white walkers. Yet I feel a bit cheated. Sure, OK, kill him off, but he didn't even manage to be more than a thorn on the Lanister's side. All he did was win a bunch of battles that didn't really seem to get him any closer to the Lanisters. Sure he had Jaime, but he lost him. Overall, he seemed more like nuisance to the Lanisters and when he finally had a chance to escalate things just a tad more ... he and close family get fucking trashed in a manner like I've never seen - let alone expected. It would have been nice to see that perhaps the Starks were capable of making the Lanisters squirm a little ya' know? Play up this clash of two sides. But no. All Tywin had to do was write some letters and bribe a few people and the Starks as a establish household are wiped from existence.

That's all I have to say about that.
 
D

Darryl

Banned
ramyeon said:
The evidence for this theory was always pretty loose. And imo it's pretty much debunked now that she was killed in the RW.
Click to expand...

wouldn't her child become king of the north if she were to stay alive? that would go against their plans for Sansa and could be another bother. killing her seems like the obvious route out.

i had never seen this video before and i kinda just dismissed my theory on her being a spy after she was killed as a way of tricking the audience and making the red wedding scene even more dramatic. after watching the video, a lot of that evidence is very subtle and pretty damning, stuff the general audience wouldn't notice.
 
T

THRILLH0

Banned
I'm pretty certain now that this series ends with all the Starks having been fucked up and Gladiator-style meeting in the afterlife.

I need that emotional catharsis man!
 
L

lastplayed

Member
HyruleGuardian said:
I've noticed that I've reacted differently to the events of the Red Wedding than the vast majority of people.
Click to expand...

I thought you were going to say you didn't care or anything. It was a surprise to me, but I'm not angry or sad... they were my least favourite storyline. Stannis is the only one I'm really rooting for. The rest is just entertainment.
 
P

Phonomezer

Banned
HyruleGuardian said:
I've noticed that I've reacted differently to the events of the Red Wedding than the vast majority of people.

It seems that most people now view George RR Martin to be a sadist who simply wants the bad guys to win and bad things to happen and we're heading for a story where the Lannisters continue to torture the Starks forever and the bad guys always win.

I really think GRRM is just setting everyone up... brilliantly.

In Martin's world, Robb Stark was simply too obvious of a hero. As shocking as Ned's death was, if the show had simply followed the formula of "father dies, son takes up mantle and avenges him and delivers justice" - well, that's a story that's been done before too.

But now what remains are the scattered Stark children, all who find themselves in challenging circumstances.

Try to find the odd duck here...

Robb - was made King of the North after the death of his father

Sansa - has been victimized and imprisoned by the Lannisters since Season 1, has had her world view shattered. She has learned life is not a song.

Arya - was there for the scene during the murder of her father, mother and brother. has been on the run with no where to go for 2 years.

Bran - was crippled by Jaime Lannister.

Jon - he's the same age as Robb, grew up in the same home, yet instead of being given Winterfell, he was given the Wall for life.

...

Robb stands out. He was the only overdog in the group.

It seems that most people simply can't envision how the Starks are going to make a difference now that Eddard, Robb and Cat are gone.

But their deaths only intensify our rooting interest in the remaining Starks. How badly do you want the Stark children to find their way in this brutal world? I've never been rooting for a group of fictional characters so hard.

I think what George RR Martin is really doing is setting up a revenge arc that will ultimately be more satisfying than anything we've experienced in fiction before. That of course doesn't mean all of the Starks will have a happy ending (a true happy ending is already impossible).

...

I've gone on a bit - but all I'm really saying is that while most people seem to think Martin is sadistic / the story is going to simply shift to Daenerys now, I think that is the further thing from the case. I think this is still a Stark revenge story, but in a completely unexpected way - and the stakes are higher than ever.
Click to expand...

mmhmm
 
G

gotoadgo

Member
lastplayed said:
I thought you were going to say you didn't care or anything. It was a surprise to me, but I'm not angry or sad... they were my least favourite storyline. Stannis is the only one I'm really rooting for. The rest is just entertainment.
Click to expand...
Where does all this Stannis love come from? He's one of the more annoying for me because he's always relying on the priestess. I'm #teamdany for sure.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
gotoadgo said:
Where does all this Stannis love come from? He's one of the more annoying for me because he's always relying on the priestess. I'm #teamdany for sure.
Click to expand...

Stannis doesn't want the throne. He's only after it because it's his duty, his obligation.

He believes he must step up (as he was Robert's heir) and maintain the realm.

His methods are questionable but his intent is moral.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I'm sure Dany will spend another five season wandering around a desert shithole rescuing slaves.
 
S

soundscream

Member
Vashetti said:
Stannis doesn't want the throne. He's only after it because it's his duty, his obligation.

He believes he must step up (as he was Robert's heir) and maintain the realm.

His methods are questionable but his intent is moral.
Click to expand...

Well if he didnt want it he would have joined his brother. He wants the throne.

demolitio said:
With the occasional bath break in between of course!
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That climate does horrors to the skin, she may need to increase her bathing to maintain optimal moisture.
 
E

ElectricBlue187

Member
Vashetti said:
Stannis doesn't want the throne. He's only after it because it's his duty, his obligation.

He believes he must step up (as he was Robert's heir) and maintain the realm.

His methods are questionable but his intent is moral.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that. He's in it for personal glory and ambition or else the red witch would have zero sway over him.
 
R

ramyeon

Member
Gunloc said:
We don't know yet, but probably not.

Walder wants his only hot offspring on the throne, and Edmure is how she gets there.
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I don't get the feeling that Frey is making a play for the Iron Throne and even if he was how is Edmure going to help him do that?
 
M

Massa

Member
gotoadgo said:
Where does all this Stannis love come from? He's one of the more annoying for me because he's always relying on the priestess. I'm #teamdany for sure.
Click to expand...

Stannis is a bad-ass and funny (maybe not intentionally so, but I love it). He's just but he's not a "hero", he's a flawed man. Melisandre and Davos being the polar opposite of each other kind of represent those sides of him.
 
R

RedShift

Member
I'd say he's making a play for the Riverlands, and having his grandson be heir to Riverrun is probably his aim.

I would have thought the plan was Bolton gets the North, Frey gets the Riverlands
 
L

lastplayed

Member
Massa said:
Stannis is a bad-ass and funny (maybe not intentionally so, but I love it). He's just but he's not a "hero", he's a flawed man. Melisandre and Davos being the polar opposite of each other kind of represent those sides of him.
Click to expand...

This. Plus so far he's the only one we've seen personally leading the charge against King's Landing. What's not to love about that?
 
Maddocks

Maddocks

Member
the stannis love comes because their first round pick is dead.

Us Stannis fans from the beginning will have you pretenders heads on spikes(hipster mode off)

I kid of course, stannis is just an awesome character, while flawed said the brilliant line of,"thousands" when told hundreds would die.
and his house words are just awesome.
 
M

Massa

Member
tumblr_mki9kqP1YW1rnop42o1_500.gif
 
R

RDreamer

Member
I quite liked Stannis last season. His abrasive personality worked so well with the character and goals. This season, though, he hasn't really done much at all, so I'm not sure I can really call myself a fan. I'm hoping he does some cool stuff next year. Since Mel's black magic always seems to be right, we should be in for him leading another battle at some point (did he say it was in the North? I'm pretty sure that's where he said the vision of the battle was), so that'll be cool.
 
X

xenist

Member
Maddocks said:
the stannis love comes because their first round pick is dead.

Us Stannis fans from the beginning will have you pretenders heads on spikes(hipster mode off)

I kid of course, stannis is just an awesome character, while flawed said the brilliant line of,"thousands" when told hundreds would die.
and his house words are just awesome.
Click to expand...

Stannis is the type of person that would correct your capitalization and then put you on his ignore list.

Dany is the type of person that would post pictures of her (with lots of sideboob) from a party you weren't even invited at oblivious to your jealousy.

You lose in both cases but in the latter you get sideboob. Choose your allegiance wisely.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
EDIT: Wrong fucking thread.

I think a lot of the Stannis love comes from his argument for the throne as his being fairly believable, and him being someone who actually fucking tried. He's the one character in season two who basically goes "Hey everyone, the Lannisters are inbred shitheads who conspire to murder everyone. Joffrey's head should be on a pike. My brother was killed, so the throne is by all accounts mine. So I'm going to take my gigantic fucking army and hot fire witch and sail directly to King's Landing and fuck all their shit. Come with me, or get fucked."

And those are a lot of points the audience can resonate with.
 
G

gregor7777

Banned
xenist said:
Stannis is the type of person that would correct your capitalization and then put you on his ignore list.

Dany is the type of person that would post pictures of her (with lots of sideboob) from a party you weren't even invited at oblivious to your jealousy.

You lose in both cases but in the latter you get sideboob. Choose your allegiance wisely.
Click to expand...

Fantastic.
 
K

Kozak

Banned
My love for Stannis comes from the story about how he held Storms End.

Also hes a bit like Tyrion and Jon in that he was an outcast in his family. His good deeds just got shafted.

Storms End was given to Renly for gods sake! Not only did Stannis have the rights to Storms End before Renley, he almost died to save it!
 
L

lastplayed

Member
EatChildren said:
EDIT: Wrong fucking thread.

I think a lot of the Stannis love comes from his argument for the throne as his being fairly believable, and him being someone who actually fucking tried. He's the one character in season two who basically goes "Hey everyone, the Lannisters are inbred shitheads who conspire to murder everyone. Joffrey's head should be on a pike. My brother was killed, so the throne is by all accounts mine. So I'm going to take my gigantic fucking army and hot fire witch and sail directly to King's Landing and fuck all their shit. Come with me, or get fucked."

And those are a lot of points the audience can resonate with.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. His fleet sailing up the river to the beat of drums is one of my favourite moments. Damn that wildfire.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I didn't understand Stannis' beef with Robb though. "Robb the usurper". Or was he just bitter Robb didn't answer the call for Stannis' war? Robb didn't seem to give a shit about being king of Westeros. He just wanted to strip Lannisters from the throne, get his sisters back, and secure the North.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
EatChildren said:
I didn't understand Stannis' beef with Robb though. "Robb the usurper". Or was he just bitter Robb didn't answer the call for Stannis' war? Robb didn't seem to give a shit about being king of Westeros. He just wanted to strip Lannisters from the throne, get his sisters back, and secure the North.
Click to expand...

He was attempting to liberate the North and crown himself King. Even though he wasn't gunning for the Iron Throne, he was still attempting to take Stannis's rightful lands. If Robb had bent the knee and given up all pretensions of being King in the North, they could have formed an alliance, but as it was, he was trying to take away territory that was Stannis's by right.

Same scenario for Balon Greyjoy, really. He isn't in a position to conquer all of Westeros, but he's trying to take some of it, and that's enough for Stannis to consider him a usurper king.
 
F

Forkball

Member
I think Stannis is very relateable actually. He does his job even though he laments it, gets no real reward for it, and everyone else kind of blows him off. I'm sure we've all had to sacrifice something in order to do something for "the greater good" or because someone asked you to, even if you would much rather do something else. He's very interesting as he is serious and according to Davos, just and righteous, but is still very flawed and does seem like he partly wants to be king because he wants to prove people wrong.

Plus, he is a badass. Held Storm's End for a year and nearly starved. In the Greyjoy Rebellion, he beat the Ironborn fleet (check out the S2 history extras). That's right, you know that thing the Iron Islanders are supposedly the best at? HE'S BETTER. Nearly won the throne if it wasn't for magic nukes and pissing off his brother's boyfriend. He lives on an exotic and haunting castle on an island with a sorceress and a cool bearded guy. I want to be Stannis when I grow up.
 
J

Jonm1010

Banned
I loved season 2 Stannis but I feel he's about one step from going full fanatic.

Last time we saw him he was arguing about slaughtering an innocent boy in Gendry in order to seize some magical power. I know the conversation was about him secretly wanting Davos to stop him but I feel like its been a continual path so far of him going deeper and deeper with the red woman. If he goes full fanatic I think I'm gonna have to get off his bandwagon.
 
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