Sakurai confirms Smash trailer at E3 direct!

They could make a warning before the Smash Ball appears or something, but they shouldn't be removed. It isn't just a static item that can be quickly grabbed in a single hit (well, most of the time). The Smash Ball appearing changes the flow of the match into a chase for it, which can really change free for all matches. Same goes to the Dragoon.

They could add a separate bar based or percentage based supermove, but I don't think it should replace the Smash Balls, otherwise you'll be just an removing an option from the game without adding anything to compensate.

I'm looking at this from a competitive standpoint. Anything random has to be eliminated or mitigated to the biggest extent possible. Everything about the Smash Ball is random, from when it appears, to its movement, and even the amount of damage it takes before breaking. It's 100% anti-competitive, and it's a shame because otherwise the concept behind it is great.

I don't see how having a meter-based Final Smash system would be removing anything. It's simply a large improvement over what's in Brawl, and also a lot fairer since there's no randomness involved. Why should only one character have access to their Final Smash at a time, anyways?
 
Jimmy T is my favorite WarioWare character and I definitely want him in, but..

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Why not both?

So I can have ashley and jimmy T in every thing. also 9 volt , young cricken and penny crygor.


I'm looking at this from a competitive standpoint. Anything random has to be eliminated or mitigated to the biggest extent possible. Everything about the Smash Ball is random, from when it appears, to its movement, and even the amount of damage it takes before breaking. It's 100% anti-competitive, and it's a shame because otherwise the concept behind it is great.

I don't see how having a meter-based Final Smash system would be removing anything. It's simply a large improvement over what's in Brawl, and also a lot fairer since there's no randomness involved. Why should only one character have access to their Final Smash at a time, anyways?


The competitive crowed does not have to use it, simple as that.
 
Catching up on thread:

- You people who want ZSS dropped are monsters. You people who want Marth changed to "Marth"? The Geneva Convention was created to try you for your sins.

- I'm down for some Dillon.

- Captain Syrup > Ashley > Waluigi. More WarioLand to balance out the WarioWare that was EVERYWHERE in Brawl with no Land whatsoever outside of Wario's bike and shoulder tackle side smash.

- Who wants to help me with a Twitter bomb campaign for Mike Jones for Smash 4? It won't get anywhere but it'd be fun at least. :P

I agree with everything you say here especially the bolded. I also for some strange never thought of Captain Syrup as a playable character but now she is one of my most wanted characters along with Lyndis.

My heart will break if these two aren't in it.
 
She shouldn't look "just fit", but outright muscular. Based on her story, she should look like a fighter and less like a model.

Anyways, I really want Fusion Samus as her main build in SSB4. Feel free to go crazy over that too.
Why? She's not a bodybuilder or wrestler. She mostly needs agility and endurance, not strength (which is provided by her armor), so she should look more like an athlete or dancer. And I guess she kinda does.
 
You are complaining about the same character twice, but they have different move sets.

Not really. I was responding to your comment that Zero Suit Samus represents an additional female character. She doesn't. She represents an additional female moveset. She's the same character as Samus, and her presence has no real effect on the gender ratio.

Then you complain about a character that shouldn't get in, because you want ridley who often portayed as a giant space dragon.

Often? He's big in the Prime games and Fusion, but then that's Meta Ridley, Omega Ridley and Ridley X. Your ordinary Ridley isn't really that much bigger than Samus. In the original Metroid he's only ever-so-slightly taller. In Super Metroid, the top of Samus' head reaches where Ridley's neck joins his body, so he only really has a head and a neck on her. In Zero Mission he's kinda large, I guess, but he's probably closer to Samus size in Zero Mission than Mario is to Bowser's size in SM64.

You have just been complaining about some good looking girl wanting to play in your sandbox.

I actually don't mind she's good-looking, that's more Ein Bear. I just think that in the original Metroid, the fact she's an attractive woman is was a piece of trope-subversion. Given there were essentially no female protagonists in the era and the manual is very careful to avoid specifying her gender, it would actually have been a big surprise to reach the end of the game and find out the whole "hey, a woman can do this too!" thing. The subversion is the important part, and just straight up playing the "hey, sexy laaaady" angle seems wrong when that's not actually straight-up sexualization but instead a subtle mocking of the player's inbuilt expectations for what a video game protagonist is. So that's one reason.

The second reason is that it isn't a particularly faithful representation of the series. When the Power Suit runs out of energy, Samus dies because she and the suit are fundamentally integrated while it is active. She doesn't take it off in combat, ever, because her capabilities outside it are extremely limited (she can't even kill a Space Pirate, for example). The one time she does end up without it in a combat situation (in Zero Mission) is a terrifying experience where you have to sneak everywhere and can never confront enemies directly. To have Zero Suit Samus in Brawl not only be an extremely capable fighter but actually better than suited Samus is just totally against what Zero Suit Samus is in the games.

If they wanted to do Zero Suit Samus right, she would simply be a victory pose for Samus at the end of a match. It would be a nice homage to the fact Zero Suit Samus is revealed as the endscreen of the original Metroid, and it doesn't misrepresent the character. The attractiveness isn't an issue (provided there are no lingering ass-shots).
 
Confirmed trailer has my hype reaching a boil, I feel almost as if my entire E3 experience hinges on this trailer, insane expectations!

I'd like to see a DK stage from RETURNS

Lots to choose from

Yep, lots to choose from and we'll get the jungle because it's always the jungle
then Nocturnowl went into his usual rant about Smash Bros and DK Island Swing...

But hey at least the DKCR style Jungle looks pretty sweet, I know what could work, Handy Hazards, that giant eyeball thing placing his boxes all over the place could make for an interesting stage and there's even a jungle visible through the factory windows to fit the obligatory jungle criteria.
 
don't get me wrong, moon physics and tripping are the first things that I'd like to see go. Or at least leave in a switch this time, smash has always been about having tons of options, I still wonder what the heck were they thinking.

Agreed.

But in any case, I do agree with the overall sentiment that one of the best things about Smash is that, thus far, every game in the series has been decidedly different from one another. I can certainly appreciate that much.

That said, that's all the more reason I'm hoping that Namco's involvement will be for the better. With the production staff being made up of the likes of people who worked on Soulcalibur, Tekken and Gundam Vs., I'd like to think that they'd be able to make a game that can hopefully arrive at a nice compromise of Sakurai's vision and solid gameplay mechanics...and hopefully without the need of utterly stupid things like tripping.
 
I don't see how having a meter-based Final Smash system would be removing anything. It's simply a large improvement over what's in Brawl, and also a lot fairer since there's no randomness involved. Why should only one character have access to their Final Smash at a time, anyways?

The point of the Smash Ball is that it changes the dynamics of the battle, with everyone moving after a fast flying ball, or attacking other characters attempting to do that. The random energy (and its decrease with time) is there to avoid letting people get free hits in order to take the Ball afterwards, which would hurt that dynamic. The uncertainty makes everyone go after it if they want the Final Smash, or at least want to avoid letting other players get it. A meter based Final Smash just wouldn't replace that whole aspect at all.

And, yes, I guess that due to those same characteristics, it isn't really useful for competitive Smash, but competitive Smash also has little use for most items and even 4 player free for all, so Smash has never been entirely designed around the competitive aspect, even the games favored by the scene. The Smash Ball can be turned off anyway, so it doesn't get in the way of a competitive ruleset, unlike tripping or lack of balance in other areas.

If you want a super move, they could still add something separate from the Final Smashes. I just don't think the Final Smashes should be converted into that.
 
I actually don't mind she's good-looking, that's more Ein Bear. I just think that in the original Metroid, the fact she's an attractive woman is was a piece of trope-subversion. Given there were essentially no female protagonists in the era and the manual is very careful to avoid specifying her gender, it would actually have been a big surprise to reach the end of the game and find out the whole "hey, a woman can do this too!" thing. The subversion is the important part, and just straight up playing the "hey, sexy laaaady" angle seems wrong when that's not actually straight-up sexualization but instead a subtle mocking of the player's inbuilt expectations for what a video game protagonist is. So that's one reason.
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I can only add the following to this thread:

I hope there is a Xenoblade stage where you are fighting on the two swords that those two giants are fighting with, and you land on either god as they trade blows.

There seems to be a lot of paternalistic protection of Samus, as if she is someone's daughter or prom date. This is creepily weird, and to speak of her being "exploitative" undermines the enterprise of the sexism in games debate. Her "costume" is essentially her body, sans the bumps and ridges that go with skin. If simply depicting a female form without any detail is sexist or exploitative, then I'm curious as to what is so offensive.
 
Not really. I was responding to your comment that Zero Suit Samus represents an additional female character. She doesn't. She represents an additional female moveset. She's the same character as Samus, and her presence has no real effect on the gender ratio.



Often? He's big in the Prime games and Fusion, but then that's Meta Ridley, Omega Ridley and Ridley X. Your ordinary Ridley isn't really that much bigger than Samus. In the original Metroid he's only ever-so-slightly taller. In Super Metroid, the top of Samus' head reaches where Ridley's neck joins his body, so he only really has a head and a neck on her. In Zero Mission he's kinda large, I guess, but he's probably closer to Samus size in Zero Mission than Mario is to Bowser's size in SM64.



I actually don't mind she's good-looking, that's more Ein Bear. I just think that in the original Metroid, the fact she's an attractive woman is was a piece of trope-subversion. Given there were essentially no female protagonists in the era and the manual is very careful to avoid specifying her gender, it would actually have been a big surprise to reach the end of the game and find out the whole "hey, a woman can do this too!" thing. The subversion is the important part, and just straight up playing the "hey, sexy laaaady" angle seems wrong when that's not actually straight-up sexualization but instead a subtle mocking of the player's inbuilt expectations for what a video game protagonist is. So that's one reason.

The second reason is that it isn't a particularly faithful representation of the series. When the Power Suit runs out of energy, Samus dies because she and the suit are fundamentally integrated while it is active. She doesn't take it off in combat, ever, because her capabilities outside it are extremely limited (she can't even kill a Space Pirate, for example). The one time she does end up without it in a combat situation (in Zero Mission) is a terrifying experience where you have to sneak everywhere and can never confront enemies directly. To have Zero Suit Samus in Brawl not only be an extremely capable fighter but actually better than suited Samus is just totally against what Zero Suit Samus is in the games.

If they wanted to do Zero Suit Samus right, she would simply be a victory pose for Samus at the end of a match. It would be a nice homage to the fact Zero Suit Samus is revealed as the endscreen of the original Metroid, and it doesn't misrepresent the character. The attractiveness isn't an issue (provided there are no lingering ass-shots).

You want cut out a character, to be faithful to whats going on in the series.( even though she been shown with out the suit)

You must HAAAATEEE capcom fighters.

Fighters based of comic books, or anything of that nature.


I do not see the logic, of leaving her out because of that.
 
Um, people are confusing me and Ein Bear. I don't mind attractive portrayals of Samus, and I'd love (as an example) for Bayonetta to be a playable character. My issue is simply that it isn't faithful to the home series at all.
 
Um, people are confusing me and Ein Bear. I don't mind attractive portrayals of Samus, and I'd love (as an example) for Bayonetta to be a playable character. My issue is simply that it isn't faithful to the home series at all.

Sorry about that part then
 
Um, people are confusing me and Ein Bear. I don't mind attractive portrayals of Samus, and I'd love (as an example) for Bayonetta to be a playable character. My issue is simply that it isn't faithful to the home series at all.

I don't really have a problem with her being 'attractive' either, I just think that the catsuit and lingering ass shots are a bit much.
 
Why? She's not a bodybuilder or wrestler. She mostly needs agility and endurance, not strength (which is provided by her armor), so she should look more like an athlete or dancer. And I guess she kinda does.
exactly, by taking a look at female artistic gymnasts/acrobats' physiques and attire one could easily understand what concept artists strived for within her design.
 
Samus is an interesting character to have without her suit because she has a very different move set. She also is faster, lighter and more agile in Zero suit. That's the Chozo training for you.

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Samus has always been a very attractive woman. Never understood the so called Metroid fan complaining about Samus being over sexualised. She has always been. Plus you have to get her out of her suit if you want to work on her personality. That's why she's much more in Zero suit (or with without her helmet) in the last few games.

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Leave Zero Samus alone.

A real Metroid fan.
 
Hmm, for some reason I thought Brawl had more development time by its reveal than Smash 4 has at this point...glad to know we have a possibility of seeing a more detailed and possibly closer-to-release trailer.

Would love if they do what they did with Melee's reveal and air the Opening Movie. But then again they probably don't wanna spoil all the non-secret newcomers at once.

To be honest, I would rather that they would go with most of Brawl characters as starter and add few newcomer starter characters so we will be surprised by a lot of newcomer secret characters. That's why people were not happy with Brawl because they were expected to have a lot of surprise newcomer as secret characters but it ended up that most of secret characters were returning.

That's really reassuring... but then again, you also have to factor in that it's Sakurai's first attempt at HD development :/
... but not Namco-Bandai's! :D

That's true, and I just recalled that they are working on 3DS and Wii U at same time so here is the hope for us.
 
You want cut out a character, to be faithful to whats going on in the series.( even though she been shown with out the suit)

You must HAAAATEEE capcom fighters.

Fighters based of comic books, or anything of that nature.

I can appreciate their gameplay and quite enjoy some of the vs. Capcom series, but the portrayals do sometimes annoy me, yes. At least some part of my enjoyment comes from being able to play a character from a series I enjoy. When that series is not represented accurately, it diminishes my enjoyment.

I do not see the logic, of leaving her out because of that.

See above. The SSB series is just a giant homage to Nintendo, venerating the all the great IPs Nintendo has created over the years. It's not really a very good veneration if it fundamentally misunderstands one of those series.
 
Guys, guys. I think we are ignoring the obvious next choice for Smash Bros 4.



Vince, the kind, elderly art teacher from Art Academy! Think of all the art related puns and attacks he can have! His final smash can be him painting Happy Trees all over the screen and turning it into a landscape, then throwing paint thinner at all the "paintified" characters. Or something. Get hype!
 
It would be epic if you can just fight and move from place to another side of whole skyloft.

Skyward Sword Spoiler below
It would be cool if our skyloft temple start to crumble and fall down to the earth as we continue to fight.
 
I can appreciate their gameplay and quite enjoy some of the vs. Capcom series, but the portrayals do sometimes annoy me, yes. At least some part of my enjoyment comes from being able to play a character from a series I enjoy. When that series is not represented accurately, it diminishes my enjoyment.



See above. The SSB series is just a giant homage to Nintendo, venerating the all the great IPs Nintendo has created over the years. It's not really a very good veneration if it fundamentally misunderstands one of those series.

to the top, to each his own I guess.


To the bottom.

Marth's super, the trophy can clarify what actually goes on in the games.

Let the games be fun. as long as they do not go overboard.
 
Came home, about to tick off another day in the E3 countdown calendar but whats the point.. Nintendo won.

I wouldn't jump into conclusion that Nintendo won. Many people were so sure that Nintendo would win after Sony/Microsoft's bad showcase last year.
 
I hope they completely re-do Gannondorf this time round. He deserves better than just being a Captain Falcon clone, I want to see him finally use that sword.
 
Poke Floats has to be a retro stage, that stage was amazing, you can add more of the lol new gen pokemon as floats.


i would pick it every time online
 
That's why people were not happy with Brawl because they were expected to have a lot of surprise newcomer as secret characters but it ended up that most of secret characters were returning.

That and, like Melee, bar the Pokemon (Mewtwo and Lucario) and Surprise Retro-Retro Character (GW and ROB), the secret characters were all clones.
 
Fantastic news. Even if it's just a 1-2 minute long trailer, just seeing the game in action is enough for me.

SSBU would make me get a Wii U ASAP.
 
I hope they completely re-do Gannondorf this time round. He deserves better than just being a Captain Falcon clone, I want to see him finally use that sword.

This so much. In fact, I'd love for them to play it Wind Waker style and straight up give him two swords to differentiate from all the other Brawl swordies.
 
See above. The SSB series is just a giant homage to Nintendo, venerating the all the great IPs Nintendo has created over the years. It's not really a very good veneration if it fundamentally misunderstands one of those series.

Are you his protectionist over Pit, who was essentially recreated in Sakurai's image, totally trampling whatever the hell was going on in the Gameboy game the last time anybody saw him?
 
Actually I don't care that much. I just don't want ZSamus to look like such a stereotypical fanservice character.

The ending depictions were alright for what they were. They could use the same opportunities to make her look tougher though.

Just ditch the Zero Suit and use her military outfit or civilian clothes (aka the only cool things in Other M).
 
I really hope they stop making stages where shit moves around you and attacks you for no reason. Some of those stages in Brawl were just awful.

The best stages are the ones where the landscape makes the fight more interesting, not more difficult.
 
Guys, guys. I think we are ignoring the obvious next choice for Smash Bros 4.



Vince, the kind, elderly art teacher from Art Academy! Think of all the art related puns and attacks he can have! His final smash can be him painting Happy Trees all over the screen and turning it into a landscape, then throwing paint thinner at all the "paintified" characters. Or something. Get hype!

Just ditch the Zero Suit and use her military outfit or civilian clothes (aka the only cool things in Other M).
I liked her design in Other M, I'd be OK if they used it in this smash
 
This so much. In fact, I'd love for them to play it Wind Waker style and straight up give him two swords to differentiate from all the other Brawl swordies.

This would be perfect. I always thought the way that WW Ganondorf kept his twin swords up his sleeves and popped them, Wolverine style, was badass. You could still have some of his classic punch moves, then have him pop the swords mid-combo or something.
 
The second reason is that it isn't a particularly faithful representation of the series. When the Power Suit runs out of energy, Samus dies because she and the suit are fundamentally integrated while it is active.

Samus dies because the power suit "runs out of energy" by being damaged and that damage gets through it and hits her body when it's damage enough. There's no evidence that, before the Fusion suit, Samus' suit is a life support system that's necessary to keep her alive.

She doesn't take it off in combat, ever, because her capabilities outside it are extremely limited (she can't even kill a Space Pirate, for example). The one time she does end up without it in a combat situation (in Zero Mission) is a terrifying experience where you have to sneak everywhere and can never confront enemies directly.

Well, in Brawl, the standard way to get to ZSS is by using the final Smash, where the suit is damaged and removed. Yes, obviously there's also the shortcut to start the battle as ZSS, but even there you've got the suit breaking apart and falling on the ground, rather than just being teleported out.

Also, her standard gun attack is still a teaser which won't knock out anyone, just like in Zero Mission. She did end up stronger than suited Samus, but that's just a balance issue, not a problem with her basic concept. In the story mode, getting suit Samus is even treated like an upgrade.
 
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