Wishmaster92
Member
Good on you Eurogamer.
Eurogamer Opinion - Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile
- Thread starter 8bit
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thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Right on Eurogamer, it's really refreshing to see major sites taking a stand.
qa_engineer
Member
Good job, Eurogamer. Well said.
Nocturno999
Member
I was thinking the same...
Because if you had done your research you'd know that Steam is fucking awesome, fair and doesn't deserve to be bashed.
I have no problem with buying new. Just make sure that companies continue to manufacture the same games for the next several decades.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Steam by the way, doesn't have a limit on how many machines it can be installed on. As long as you have steam_setup.exe your user name and password. Your games can be downloaded on to as many machines or are at your disposal however you wish them to be.
Unless the publisher has some stupid thing like a 5 install limit, but steam does not.
Unless the publisher has some stupid thing like a 5 install limit, but steam does not.
BradleyLove
Member
This is now the third most read article from BBC News.
Xbox One: Microsoft defends pre-owned games rules
Xbox One: Microsoft defends pre-owned games rules
Another one:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22812743
Really popping up everywhere now. Another thing that occurs to me is never mind leaving a game with a friend what if at a later date MS decide to switch of the servers supporting XBone verification when there is a new console? Are you left with a dead console? I mean basically this capability allows MS to switch your console off.
EDIT : Beaten
I think I heard something about a court case being prepared, but don't quote me on that.
"Last updated at 13:37"
Sometimes you have to appreciate moments of serendipity.
To be fair to them, the VM system they're using *should* imply that a future console would be fully capable of running the Xbox One VM to make the games fully backwards-compatible. Of course, it's quite some time until we get confirmation that that's genuinely the case.
That said, I'd like a definitive statement on what they'll guarantee will be available in ten years' time, twenty, thirty.
Its been heard and ruled that licenses or digital goods hold the same consumer rights as physical.
Edit I've been peppering threads with this since people are either oblivious to this ruling or don't care. I've been tempted to make a thread.
Dictator93
Member
Woke up this morning and smiled when I saw this article.
I hope microsoft chokes over this... either that or there is huge backlash.
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
Always been a fan of Tom's work.
This hardware is clearly designer primarily around corporate interests in a luxury market. Shit won't stick. They will need to back peddle as its simply too aggressively negative toward the player experience.
This hardware is clearly designer primarily around corporate interests in a luxury market. Shit won't stick. They will need to back peddle as its simply too aggressively negative toward the player experience.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Nope there is no way to share digital content with someone. However, there are good reasons why that is not allowed. Not 100% airtight reasons but it is pretty easy to argue a few points why you want to avoid that.
However, Steam is very lenient with account sharing on the DRM side(altho I'm pretty sure most people break the TOS with how they use it) as you can easily login to your account on a friend's PC and play some games with him/her.
In the X1's case it seems like you are going to be made to jump through hoops to do the same thing even with a physical disc. That just doesn't make sense. In any way.
As the Time article pointed out, sharing movies and media at a friend's house is a time honored tradition. And I fail to see how any single benefit from the X1 online service(which I believe will exist) could make up for this loss.
Yeah well the live tv at least is thanks to another piece of plastic that is just running through the X1 I believe ;p
You know, that brings up an interesting question for me. With cable services in the US, if you own a DVR device like most households are your recorded shows locked away from you if for some reason your cable goes out? I haven't lived in the States for so long and never really had a DVR anyway...
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
They don't care, because its a load of bollocks.
What a court decides vs when people feel they are being screwed are completely unrelated.
A court also ruled that "corporations are people". Do you believe that now because a court said it?
Uhhh, it matters because of the application of existing consumer laws to licenses and digital goods.
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
It won't matter because dont give a flying fuck about what the law says is acceptable vs their own sense of what is.
Keep up the good work, soldier.
So laws don't matter now? Cool, just gonna murder the old lady across the road. She doesn't have any family and noone gives a fuck about her so its perfectly acceptable.
kerotan_eater
Banned
Wow ... perhaps this is showing how even the average joe gives a fuck?
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
That's an incredible jump to make.
This is A LUXURY GAMES MACHINE.
Perspective: this is not an office software ill use to make money. This is an expensive device I use for leisure. In my underpants.
Slapping license laws and aggressive execution on top of it, is terribly misguided and simply won't be seen as acceptable by those aware of it. Which they will be.
semiconscious
Member
Tom Bramwell said:
classic. perfect...
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Unfortunately, the states have Vernor v Autodesk.
I'm gonna be real interested to see how MS and Sony fare in EU with these publisher controls in place.
The price being the only difference is such a weak defense, though.
I mean, Nintendo had Super Metroid for 30 cents at one point. Clearly one of the best games ever at the best price ever, so it follows that the Wii U has the superior digital distribution solution?
Drive by posting is the most annoying shit. It does nothing but ruin threads.
Wickerbasket
Member
Plus you didn't have to pay for online, and you weren't forced to buy from Steam as PC is an open platform with many digital competitors.
Steam earned my trust slowly over many years as PC retail was dying, MS is trying to force this bullshit down my throat while pretending it's for my own good.
They aren't slapping any laws on it, they ruled that current laws still apply. Its an extreme example of your logic that laws are essentially meaningless if noone cares.
Edit And what the hell does it matter if its a luxury item? A Mobile Phone contract is a luxury item, that doesn't mean its exempt from consumer protection legislation.
Wickerbasket
Member
It's not the only difference though, but I think you knew that.
Going from owning something to simply borrowing it is unacceptable. Does not matter which company is doing it, what they are actually selling or what their "intentions" are. You are getting scammed
Imagine going from selling something to people who can enjoy it pretty much forever or until the day they day, to selling something that this company now can shut off when they please. From a business perspective that is every CEOs wet dream regardless what business they are in.
Lets see just how long the servers are up for 360 games, they took the entirety of OG Xbox Live down, the whole thing, no remorse, no nothing, just pressed a big red button and that was that, poof disappeared into thin air. All those memories of you playing OG Xbox on Live are just that, memories. None of that exist nor has existed for years.
This time with the Xbox One, the entire game is taken down, not even single player is available, chances are you wont even be able to see the game menu.
Do what you want with your money, people are getting scammed all the time, its not like this is the first day light robbery in the world, ill opt out.
Imagine going from selling something to people who can enjoy it pretty much forever or until the day they day, to selling something that this company now can shut off when they please. From a business perspective that is every CEOs wet dream regardless what business they are in.
Lets see just how long the servers are up for 360 games, they took the entirety of OG Xbox Live down, the whole thing, no remorse, no nothing, just pressed a big red button and that was that, poof disappeared into thin air. All those memories of you playing OG Xbox on Live are just that, memories. None of that exist nor has existed for years.
This time with the Xbox One, the entire game is taken down, not even single player is available, chances are you wont even be able to see the game menu.
Do what you want with your money, people are getting scammed all the time, its not like this is the first day light robbery in the world, ill opt out.
The important part is that both tie a game forever to your account (with some exceptions in the xbox case).
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
A phone is a utility device that happens to play games worth $1. $60 is absurd for a game on a purely luxury item.
They are slapping an application of a law that is anti-consumer and aggressive in a market where it solves zero problems for the user that can't be solved in other ways that aren't blatantly about corporate interests.
Laws are meaningless in terms of public perception ties with the marketing of a product. In larger terms, laws (some at least) are supposed to be protective. When laws come up as part of a consumer ethics issue related to your product, the consumer will not give a shit about your legal knowledge, only that you are clearly fucking them over your corporate interests.
Wickerbasket
Member
Right, but why would I trust Microsoft with my digital content when they offer none of the advantages that Steam offer and have proven not to give a shit about digital content working on new devices?
They're trying to turn console gaming into something it's not. You can't just suddenly take a whole load of features away from consumers and expect them not to care.
They're also semi applying digital restrictions on physical mediums, sort of defeating the purpose of buying physical at retail altogether.
Shake Appeal
Member
Except that Kotaku did:
http://kotaku.com/video-game-companies-arent-letting-us-do-anything-511789152
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
You know, it's really becoming simpler and simpler in my mind. A physical game already isn't worth $60 to me. I buy them under $30, if ever. Most games nowadays are one-and-done experiences anyways. This is why I usually rent and buy used if it's something I enjoy enough to play multiple times.
If a physical game isn't worth $60 to me, a digital license to essentially lease a game indefinitely surely isn't going to be worth $60 to me either.
I'll never buy a MS, Sony, Nintendo, whoever console that will never offer me games at the price I consider them worth to me. Only when the required licenses for enough interesting sounding games are in the $30 range might I reconsider.
If a physical game isn't worth $60 to me, a digital license to essentially lease a game indefinitely surely isn't going to be worth $60 to me either.
I'll never buy a MS, Sony, Nintendo, whoever console that will never offer me games at the price I consider them worth to me. Only when the required licenses for enough interesting sounding games are in the $30 range might I reconsider.
I wasn't referring to a phone in terms of games purely as a luxury item which it is.
First sale doctrine is anti consumer now? Are you serious?
I don't need to. All my friends bought Borderlands 2 the other day for $13 each. Who needs to trade games around when they're that cheap? My biggest problem with XBO is the online requirement and is the main sticking point of why STEAM is not the same as XBO in policy and practice.
Wickerbasket
Member
I mean, there's the fact that it's a closed platform too. There's no digital competition, so the prices will stay high forever.
FalsettoVibe
Member
MS has been getting so much bad press here lately. Can't say they didn't bring it on themselves though. Question: If Sony says no DRM, is nextgen and insta-win for them?
Shake Appeal
Member
Oh for the love of...
I know. I don't really see them suddenly turning the tap off, I fully expect they'll make sure the console remains viable even when replaced by newer consoles - but I don't like the fact that the killswitch is nonetheless in place.
I know I can power up my PS2 (or 360 or PS3) anytime I want and use them within reasonable limits (i.e. some specific game servers, etc. might be gone) but I don't like the fact that with the XBone MS really could effectively prevent me doing so at some future point.
On a similar note after the PSN hacking I really don't like the implications for disruption opportunities such a killswitch also represents.
Wow, you have now completely lost touch with reality.
Have you ever used Steam?
Logically it should be. Realistically? I don't think it will be that easy.
Because PC gamers accepted this long before Steam. I am not alone when I say I don't PC game because of this very concept. I stayed with consoles because of cost and the ability to trade or sell or buy used games. I only buy digital when there is no disc-based alternative.