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[nib95]

Does "the reverse" mean Sony? Yes, that has happened, without going in to specifics.

If people are wondering if we catch all the marketers, the answer is unfortunately no, and probably not by a longshot. I'm confident there are at least some amongst us right now. The biggest problem is that it is often difficult to tell who is literally a paid, viral marketer and who is simply profoundly captured by a particular company's branding/marketing, or who may have always owned Nintendo products and now feels heavily invested in seeing them continue to succeed.

There are, as a non-MS example, definitely people who refer to Sony as SONY and speak almost reverently of their products and games, but who aren't actually paid to operate like that. Apple fans are the most notorious for this -- they become so enraptured with the brand, so fully captured by the marketing, that they operate as viral marketers without actually being paid like one.

This makes our job of rooting at the legitimately paid viral marketers much harder.

This post was pretty fascinating to read.

 

[Rolf NB]

300000 email servers.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Apple fans are the most notorious for this -- they become so enraptured with the brand, so fully captured by the marketing, that they operate as viral marketers without actually being paid like one.

This makes our job of rooting at the legitimately paid viral marketers much harder.

I'm just trying to keep your mind sharp.

 

[Majanew]

Everyone's suspect now lol

Was Reiko a MS shill?

 

[Kayhan]

We've had people aggressively arguing for the superiority of (For example) Forza over GT who have signed up for the site with email accounts like spy@microsoft.net.

:lol they must think very little of the moderation here.

 

[watership]

Does "the reverse" mean Sony? Yes, that has happened, without going in to specifics.

If people are wondering if we catch all the marketers, the answer is unfortunately no, and probably not by a longshot. I'm confident there are at least some amongst us right now. The biggest problem is that it is often difficult to tell who is literally a paid, viral marketer and who is simply profoundly captured by a particular company's branding/marketing, or who may have always owned Nintendo products and now feels heavily invested in seeing them continue to succeed.

There are, as a non-MS example, definitely people who refer to Sony as SONY and speak almost reverently of their products and games, but who aren't actually paid to operate like that. Apple fans are the most notorious for this -- they become so enraptured with the brand, so fully captured by the marketing, that they operate as viral marketers without actually being paid like one.

This makes our job of rooting at the legitimately paid viral marketers much harder.

Oh god. Imagine if Apple entered into the console space? I don't think Gaf could take the influx of users with worship-level brand loyalty. They'd probably demand that they be allowed to post in Helvetica too.

 

[Risette]

Oh god. Imagine if Apple entered into the console space? I don't think Gaf could take the influx of users with worship-level brand loyalty. They'd probably demand that they be allowed to post in Helvetica too.

Helvetica Neue, breh.

 

[todahawk]

Does "the reverse" mean Sony? Yes, that has happened, without going in to specifics.

If people are wondering if we catch all the marketers, the answer is unfortunately no, and probably not by a longshot. I'm confident there are at least some amongst us right now. The biggest problem is that it is often difficult to tell who is literally a paid, viral marketer and who is simply profoundly captured by a particular company's branding/marketing, or who may have always owned Nintendo products and now feels heavily invested in seeing them continue to succeed.

There are, as a non-MS example, definitely people who refer to Sony as SONY and speak almost reverently of their products and games, but who aren't actually paid to operate like that. Apple fans are the most notorious for this -- they become so enraptured with the brand, so fully captured by the marketing, that they operate as viral marketers without actually being paid like one.

This makes our job of rooting at the legitimately paid viral marketers much harder.

Can mods easily see the ip address of accounts?
I know there's ways to check ip ranges and see if they're coming from a certain company's campus or location.

Obviously there's work involved and i know mods are busy but if they smarten up and stop using obvious emails hopefully the mods will have other options.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Helvetica Neue, breh.

that guy is so behind the curve bro

 

[Polk]

I think it's silly to believe that a company as successful as Microsoft would stoop to posting random, positive comments on popular internet message boards. Besides, the XBox One© and the new Kinect 2 are such a great pieces of hardware that they don't need help from viral marketers to sell. And with games like Halo 5, Call of Duty: Ghosts and Forza 5 already on the way, I'm sure gamers are as excited as I am to see the future of the Xbox One©.

I don't know console you speak of. Do you mean Xbox One all-in-one gaming and entertainment system from Microsoft?

 

[watership]

Helvetica Neue, breh.

I thought that's the Telus brand font.

 

[May16]

You stole my joke. I'm telling our supervisor.

Haha I swear I did not even see your post beforehand!

 

[qirex]

Can mods easily see the ip address of accounts?
I know there's ways to check ip ranges and see if they're coming from a certain company's campus or location.

Obviously there's work involved and i know mods are busy but if they smarten up and stop using obvious emails hopefully the mods will have other options.

Most reputation management is done by outside firms who employ remote freelancers or use other tactics to make it non-obvious that it's coming from a single source. In fact that the original story said that MS was wasting office space on their main campus for this sort of thing is highly dubious.

 

[DevilDawg]

I am not surprised. I think most companies do stuff like this though.

 

[watership]

Most reputation management is done by outside firms who employ remote freelancers or use other tactics to make it non-obvious that it's coming from a single source. In fact that the original story said that MS was wasting office space on their main campus for this sort of thing is highly dubious.

Most marketing like this ends up being a contractor of a contractor, etc. Wasn't that the case with the "All I want for christmas is a PSP" failed viral campaign?

 

[Rolf NB]

There are, as a non-MS example, definitely people who refer to Sony as SONY and speak almost reverently of their products and games, but who aren't actually paid to operate like that. Apple fans are the most notorious for this -- they become so enraptured with the brand, so fully captured by the marketing, that they operate as viral marketers without actually being paid like one.

The common reinterpretation of "viral" on GAF has irked me for a while. Etymologically, "viral marketing" is always unpaid. You "infect" people with a message or a meme and they spread it, like a virus would spread. Those who replicate it are seldom even aware of the original source and intent, and would not necessarily agree with the proceedings if they were.

"Plant" is the correct term for a paid undercover marketer acting as a consumer.

 

[uncledonnie]

They claimed the same thing during the runup to the Windows 8 launch. It was later proven they were in fact doing what they denied doing.

Link?

 

[Opiate]

Can mods easily see the ip address of accounts?
I know there's ways to check ip ranges and see if they're coming from a certain company's campus or location.

Yes, we sometimes do this. Part of the problem is that many of these marketers aren't literally inside Microsoft's (or Sony or EA or whomever's) HQ. They're just random people who live in Albuquerque or Little Rock or Jacksonville or wherever and are paid to go to lots of internet forums and say nice things about the company that pays them. This is much more challenging.

Obviously there's work involved and i know mods are busy but if they smarten up and stop using obvious emails hopefully the mods will have other options.

My guess is that most do not use obvious emails or IPs. Just like we always notice the bad plastic surgery and think all plastic surgery is bad -- the good ones are almost by definition unnoticeable, so of course it seems like all the plastic surgery (and viral marketers) are bad when the good ones are good because they're never seen.

 

[commedieu]

A Darling of mine, and probably many more, Mr.Jim Sterling has had a guy "battling" him every time, the past days, he has said something negative about Microsoft.
Well a CEX employee found out that he is actually working for Microsoft.

https://twitter.com/Zabant/status/342990976203251712

And if you read more of the guys tweet it's all in the same tone, Microsoft is good, it's like steam, it's awesome etc. etc. well for me It's things like this that makes me pissed, Microsoft already lost my respect back in 2001 and gained my hate with Secure boot and now my anger.

I'm really wishing for a larger Linux selection on Steam and that GoG picks up because you know, vine doesn't always work.

the steam talking point is the most annoying one.

every single thread.

 

[jtb]

Oh god. Imagine if Apple entered into the console space? I don't think Gaf could take the influx of users with worship-level brand loyalty. They'd probably demand that they be allowed to post in Helvetica too.

there is nothing wrong with demanding the superior font

 

[ffdgh]

We've had people aggressively arguing for the superiority of (For example) Forza over GT who have signed up for the site with email accounts like spy@microsoft.net.

This is almost as funny as it is creepy. I mean come on.

 

[Fistwell]

there is nothing wrong with demanding the superior font

What's helvetica? Is it like comic sans?

 

[PedroLumpy]

Personally, if a poster is such a fanboy that they're indistinguishable from a viral marketer, I'd want them banned anyway. But that's probably one of many reasons I'm not a mod on a forum somewhere.

 

[The_Lump]

This happens all the time, and even in reverse with employees sabotaging rival products' hype. WiiU is in fact the most popular console in history - it's just MS employees cheating at internetz and making it look bad. Same with Vita.


True Story.

 

[Fistwell]

This happens all the time, and even in reverse with employees sabotaging rival products' hype.

I see. Like if Sweet Billy had actually been hired by Phil Harrison. Brilliant.

 

[shpankey]

I cannot believe how truly gullible people in general are. You all believe this?

It may or may not be true, but the sheer leap of faith by the masses is disconcerting.

 

[gkryhewy]

the steam talking point is the most annoying one.

every single thread.

In some respects, it is like steam. I don't need to be a paid plant or brand partisan to acknowledge this. Sorry if it annoys you.

 

[Hypereides]

From SunhiLegend:

Sunhi you bastard. You did it again.

 

[Septimius]

I cannot believe how truly gullible people in general are. You all believe this?

It may or may not be true, but the sheer leap of faith by the masses is disconcerting.

Seems like you've been tagged wrong.

 

[F0rneus]

In some respects, it is like steam. I don't need to be a paid plant or brand partisan to acknowledge this. Sorry if it annoys you.

My Steam games don't stop working when I don't have an internet connection. Nor will I lose them in the future. It is nothing alike.

 

[BigDug13]

In some respects, it is like steam. I don't need to be a paid plant or brand partisan to acknowledge this. Sorry if it annoys you.

"In some respects, it's like steam" does not mean the same thing as, "but Steam is the same system and people don't Complain about that!"

It's not "the same system".

Firing a gun at a target and firing a gun at a person. They're the same in some respects. I'm still holding a gun and I'm still shooting it. But it's not "the same thing".

 

[Rebel Leader]

I cannot believe how truly gullible people in general are. You all believe this?

It may or may not be true, but the sheer leap of faith by the masses is disconcerting.

You're on GAf, and Bish on the loose.... How can you not believe?

 

[NoirVisage]

My Steam games don't stop working when I don't have an internet connection. Nor will I lose them in the future. It is nothing alike.

give up, common sense is wasted on some.

 

[Septimius]

"In some respects, it's like steam" does not mean the same thing as, "but Steam is the same system and people don't Complain about that!"

It's not "the same system".

Firing a gun at a target and firing a gun at a person. They're the same in some respects. I'm still holding a gun and I'm still shooting it. But it's not "the same thing".

Yes, and 98-99% of a chimpanzee's DNA is the same as a human's.

"In many respects, your DNA is the same as a tree's" is a valid statement by this regard.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

Yes, we sometimes do this. Part of the problem is that many of this marketers aren't literally inside Microsoft (or Sony or EA or whomever's) HQ. They're just random people who live in Albuquerque or Little Rock or Jacksonville and are paid to go to lots of internet forums and say nice things about them.

I wonder how many users would be willing to submit to an extra level of authentication regarding who they are (or what they do) so that the moderation team had an additional piece of information to consider when making ban decisions?

Anyone who is verified to NOT be paid and is instead just very strong with their preference(s) could potentially be given slightly more benefit of the doubt (though there shouldn't be suspicion cast just because you want to maintain your privacy).

I'd be willing to trade a little bit of my privacy to give the moderation staff more information with the ultimate goal of further maintaining and improving the quality of the forum.

 

[harSon]

I do believe astroturfing is occurring, you'd be an idiot not to, but I think it's more employees defending something that they've invested significant portions of their daily lives too, than a top down corporate sanctioned effort. If I'm working 8-12+ hours a day on something for years, and then see it getting completely trashed from all angles, I'd probably be somewhat defensive/protective too.

 

[Sblargh]

I wonder how many users would be willing to submit to an extra level of authentication regarding who they are (or what they do) so that the moderation team had an additional piece of information to consider when making ban decisions?

Anyone who is verified to NOT be paid and is instead just very strong with their preference(s) could potentially be given slightly more benefit of the doubt (though there shouldn't be suspicion cast just because you want to maintain your privacy).

I'd be willing to trade a little bit of my privacy to give the moderation staff more information with the ultimate goal of further maintaining and improving the quality of the forum.

I wonder if that's how totalitarist states begin.

 

[gkryhewy]

My Steam games don't stop working when I don't have an internet connection. Nor will I lose them in the future. It is nothing alike.

Those aren't really issues for me personally, since all of my stuff is online all the time. They aren't great, but they aren't dealbreakers. What is an issue for me is the loss of resale ability and resale value, which is lost in the case of any DD model. For me, personally, Xbox can still be redeemed if they commit to price flexibility and aggressiveness in the online store. Not holding my breath, but the chance is there.

 

[Septimius]

I do believe astroturfing is occurring, you'd be an idiot not to, but I think it's more employees defending something that they've invested significant portions of their daily lives too, than a top down corporate sanctioned effort. If I'm working 8-12+ hours a day on something for years, and then see it getting completely trashed from all angles, I'd probably be somewhat defensive/protective too.

But you can't be covert about it. That's not right. Also, those people are probably still working incredibly hard on this product and won't be spending their time online.

In the weekends, maybe, but still, you can't do it covertly, pretending to be a happy consumer, when you're part of the team.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

I do believe astroturfing is occurring, you'd be an idiot not to, but I think it's more employees defending something that they've invested significant portions of their daily lives too, than a top down corporate sanctioned effort. If I'm working 8-12+ hours a day on something for years, and then see it getting completely trashed from all angles, I'd probably be somewhat defensive.

I absolutely agree with you there. 100%.

And since the vast majority of the Xbox team is American (or speaks English) AND since the US culture is so different than Japan, you're just more likely to see those employees on places like NeoGAF than you would Sony or Nintendo employees.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I cannot believe how truly gullible people in general are. You all believe this?

It may or may not be true, but the sheer leap of faith by the masses is disconcerting.

Its kind of hard not to believe when the mods of the site are telling us there are people making these types of posts under the registry of company emails.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

I wonder if that's how totalitarist states begin.

Your government knows MUCH more about you than just where you work or what you do.

 

[Sblargh]

I do believe astroturfing is occurring, you'd be an idiot not to, but I think it's more employees defending something that they've invested significant portions of their daily lives too, than a top down corporate sanctioned effort. If I'm working 8-12+ hours a day on something for years, and then see it getting completely trashed from all angles, I'd probably be somewhat defensive/protective too.

If that's the case, they should let a mod knows that they work for microsoft, will remain anonymous, but are not in the PR department. Which I believe already happens.

Your government knows MUCH more about you than just where you work or what you do.

NeoGAF is not my government, c'mon. If my job has nothing to do with gaming, what's next? Checking my sexuality on feminism threads?

 

[Risette]

I do believe astroturfing is occurring, you'd be an idiot not to, but I think it's more employees defending something that they've invested significant portions of their daily lives too, than a top down corporate sanctioned effort. If I'm working 8-12+ hours a day on something for years, and then see it getting completely trashed from all angles, I'd probably be somewhat defensive/protective too.

That doesn't get people banned. Somebody like dlmn8r is a Microsoft employee who has defended Windows 8, which he worked on. It's a matter of honesty and disclosure.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

But you can't be covert about it. That's not right. Also, those people are probably still working incredibly hard on this product and won't be spending their time online.

In the weekends, maybe, but still, you can't do it covertly, pretending to be a happy consumer, when you're part of the team.

Absolutely agree, too. Transparency is key. And then not openly shilling. You can be proud of your work without shilling.

 

[Terra]

I think this is true, and of course, these people are among us thousands of gaffers. Good to hear that the mods are aware of it. I use common sense when surfing the net. Especially if someone seems OVERLY obsessed with defending/hating something, or making claims that seems untrue.

Especially in these times of The Bone and PS4 being buzzed to the maximum, in both negative and positive ways.

 

[harSon]

That doesn't get people banned. Somebody like dlmn8r is a Microsoft employee who has defended Windows 8, which he worked on. It's a matter of honesty and disclosure.

I never said the practice was ethical, simply logical given human nature.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

NeoGAF is not my government, c'mon. If my job has nothing to do with gaming, what's next? Checking my sexuality on feminism threads?

That's why it would be purely optional.

 

[Des0lar]

I cannot believe how truly gullible people in general are. You all believe this?

It may or may not be true, but the sheer leap of faith by the masses is disconcerting.

Tell me one reason why this wouldn't happen on a daily basis?

 

[MikeXXIeaf]

This may seem snide but this is exactly what you get when you go over the top with complaints based on information that MS didn't even give.

Would it be fair if we started making snap judgements on what Sony failed to mention about the PS4? No. We hardly know a damn thing about that console and we gladly give them the benefit of the doubt.

When it comes to MS however, everyone went above and beyond to assume the worst. Should they have clarified the details earlier? Sure, but the amount of bullshit the gaming community was perpetuating based on a few unconfirmed facts was appalling.

If you go about something with one extreme then expect to be responded to with another extreme.