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[Raist]

"Please note that you must connect to the Steam Network and test each of the games you would like to use in Offline Mode at least once to set up your account and configure Offline Mode on your machine."

I had a good laugh. Very consumer friendly indeed. Especially when you lose your connection unplanned and totally unexpected.

You buy these games online. Activate them when you do that.
People accept that they are rather restricted with DD. It's part of how it works. There is however a problem when DD rules start to apply to discs. It's not that hard to understand.

 

[BruiserBear]

I thought this was a thread about Xbox One production issues.

 

[mrklaw]

You buy these games online. Activate them when you do that.
People accept that they are rather restricted with DD. It's part of how it works. There is however a problem when DD rules start to apply to discs. It's not that hard to understand.

Have people forgotten that you can buy steam games on disc too? They're often a little cheaper than DD too.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Given the hoops you have to jump through with most consoles I can't see software piracy being such a huge issue for consoles. Which means these initiatives are focusing on a really small subset of the market. I mean software sales between Wii, 360, and PS3 are on par if not exceeding software sales for the prior generation of PS2, Xbox, and GCN.

You're looking at no lost software sales from the prior generation and a substantive uptick in hardware sales. Impressive, given no console had the lock on the market and overwhelming software support of the PS2.

Less impressive when you consider that this generation lasted a lot longer than the previous one. Even in this exceedingly long generation, Sony only managed to generate losses, Microsoft made some money, and Nintendo was the only true winner when it comes to profitability (sure, they messed up in other ways). One other thing that's worth noting is that Nintendo achieved their success precisely because they decided to step away from the established market paradigms.

I don't know, these new measures might not be the answer at all, they might prove the wrong way of solving the industry's problems. It's hard to tell at this point, only time will tell. However, they sure beat not attempting to change anything.

 

[Durante]

I know. But it still redeems through steam. You are still bound by steam's terms and conditions. Every time someone mentions a comparison with steam, someone else says 'oh but you can buy games from other stores'. Yes but they all end up in the same place at the end.

Well, except if you get them for Origin. Or Uplay. Or independent games from GOG. Having your hardware, OS and distribution platforms from different vendors each inherently increases the possibilities for competition, and decreases the power any single company has over consumers. I think that's essential. That's also why I have always been against some PC gamers' desire to have every single game on Steam (only). In the end, it weakens the power of choice you enjoy as a gamer.

Another very important point in this discussion is that developers, as far as I know, can generate an unlimited amount of free Steam keys for their software. This is what allows alternative digital stores for Steam titles to flourish, and what allows developers to sell their own games or easily fulfill kickstarter pledges. I don't think this will be the case on any console.

I thought this was a thread about Xbox One production issues.

Every thread must now be about how XB1 is purportedly just like Steam. At least I can engage mrklaw in discussion, since I know he is not a shill.

 

[pieatorium]

You really don't like Nintendo fans do you?

Anyway for me personally it was looking at the fairly drastic downturn in both hardware and software sales that's had me taking a step back and watching the market. I mean... it's one thing to expect contraction during generations of this length. It's another to see consoles falling behind faster than the PS2, getting close to the GCN final year levels, and watching the software market crater.

Used to get along just fine, the wust threads with the echo chamber lead by ace bandage sniping... shit... at... everything... really gave me the shits. The fact alot of the nintendo faithful still consider that guy some kind of hero is something else. You can go back to those console crash threads and check some post histories, it's quite one sided

Also as for the last part i believe that hardware hasn't fallen behind faster than the PS2? maybe this years cratering has finally pushed it over the edge but there were a few articles by jvm over last year showing a fairly similar position to the end of last gen.

 

[Whiteshirt]

Less impressive when you consider that this generation lasted a lot longer than the previous one. Even in this exceedingly long generation, Sony only managed to generate losses, Microsoft made some money, and Nintendo was the only true winner when it comes to profitability (sure, they messed up in other ways). One other thing that's worth noting is that Nintendo achieved their success precisely because they decided to step away from the established market paradigms.

I don't know, these new measures might not be the answer at all, they might prove the wrong way of solving the industry's problems. It's hard to tell at this point, only time will tell. However, they sure beat not attempting to change anything.

Sony lost money because they chose to manufacturer the Cell with Blu-Ray, which meant they were selling the PS4 at a loss of something like $400 per console. Microsoft had the RROD fiasco. Nintendo didn't have loss-leading hardware, made money by servicing a sector of consumers that Microsoft or Sony weren't targeting, and they didn't have obscenely high hardware failures. All of this is very easy to explain.

None of this has to do with used games or piracy as you might have noticed. If you want to tackle used games and piracy, then do so by offering a positive service that encourages the purchase of new retail games. Microsoft's policies don't even actually kill off used games, only games that are sold through informal means like between multiple friends or at a gaming swapmeet. This is exactly why Steam succeeded in Russia, because the price you pay gives you a crapload of benefits on a platform that still turns people off because of its perceived complexity. Its not entirely consumer friendly, as its DRM still, but it offers very good benefits that most people are willing to trade.

 

[mrklaw]

Well, except if you get them for Origin. Or Uplay. Or independent games from GOG. Having your hardware, OS and distribution platforms from different vendors each inherently increases the possibilities for competition, and decreases the power any single company has over consumers. I think that's essential. That's also why I have always been against some PC gamers' desire to have every single game on Steam (only). In the end, it weakens the power of choice you enjoy as a gamer.

Another very important point in this discussion is that developers, as far as I know, can generate an unlimited amount of free Steam keys for their software. This is what allows alternative digital stores for Steam titles to flourish, and what allows developers to sell their own games or easily fulfill kickstarter pledges. I don't think this will be the case on any console.

Every thread must now be about how XB1 is purportedly just like Steam. At least I can engage mrklaw in discussion, since I know he is not a shill.

But aren't origin/Uplay simply Ea/Ubisoft equivalents, both similarly restricted? And GOG is for older games.

I agree there are different options, but they don't really compete or overlap - they more deal in separate niches.

For consoles, the big sticking point is the platform fee. That is never going away and creates an inevitable price rise compare to the likes of steam - you can never get a game for $10 if the platform fee alone is $10. Maybe MS or Sony might allow more flexibility on digital - go for a rev share model which, on average across the lifecycle of a game, provides the same level of platform fee as the current absolute amount. So eg taking 30% of $60 at launch, and then 30% of $20 later on would net an average $10 per title.



I think the thread will drift over the weekend until we hear back from crazy buttocks on Monday. I'm pretty guilty of trying to defend steam comparisons because I think it is valid - doesn't make it consumer friendly, its just an argument point really. I'll try and resist though.

 

[Manmademan]

Every thread must now be about how XB1 is purportedly just like Steam. At least I can engage mrklaw in discussion, since I know he is not a shill.

I'm not even sure how this particular line of discussion even got started. The XB1 is hardware, locked down by a particularly noxious software distribution platform due to little more than greed. If I want to play any software at all on the XB1, no matter the age or developer I need to play by microsoft's rules or my console is worthless in 24 hours.

Steam is a software distribution platform. It's not hardware. The PC is hardware, and the PC is an open platform. If I decide Steam is a piece of shit and valve can go fuck themselves, I'm free to play retro games to my heart's content, play new games by indie developers, or purchase new games through another client (origin, GOG, whatever.) I can even make my own damn games or emulate console titles if I feel like it. My PC doesn't magically brick itself because Steam says so.

If the developers of Metro or whatever also decide steam's practices are anticompetitive, they can release it on their own or through another channel, and PC gamers can still access it. If Capcom decides 24 hour check ins, constant kinect monitoring, and a game sharing limit are BS, their only choice is to not release their games on the XB1 hardware at all and XB1 gamers are screwed. There's a big difference here.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Less impressive when you consider that this generation lasted a lot longer than the previous one. Even in this exceedingly long generation, Sony only managed to generate losses, Microsoft made some money, and Nintendo was the only true winner when it comes to profitability (sure, they messed up in other ways). One other thing that's worth noting is that Nintendo achieved their success precisely because they decided to step away from the established market paradigms.

I don't know, these new measures might not be the answer at all, they might prove the wrong way of solving the industry's problems. It's hard to tell at this point, only time will tell. However, they sure beat not attempting to change anything.

All completely valid points.

I just find myself at odds with some of the attempts at changing this market paradigm (I both love and hate this word) we've been under for a while now. I literally do think the issue of lost sales via piracy is well overstated. But that the used game market is a legitimate source of lost revenue for a lot of publishing giants.

I just don't think that matters and love Rockstars approach "Make a game people will play for months and the used game market becomes a small almost nonexistent threat to your profitability."

Used to get along just fine, the wust threads with the echo chamber lead by ace bandage sniping... shit... at... everything... really gave me the shits. The fact alot of the nintendo faithful still consider that guy some kind of hero is something else. You can go back to those console crash threads and check some post histories, it's quite one sided

Also as for the last part i believe that hardware hasn't fallen behind faster than the PS2? maybe this years cratering has finally pushed it over the edge but there were a few articles by jvm over last year showing a fairly similar position to the end of last gen.

I actually had a lot of fun with AceBandage, but it's no question that he hoisted his fanboy flag high for all to see. I tried to be one of the more calming influences in those threads. Always saying "At the absolute best WiiU would be a half step console."

And as for the second part I could have sworn it took almost two years into the PS3/360 generation before PS2 hit the current lows of the PS3/360. But again that's probably just because the PS2 had only been on shelves for six years when that happened. 360 is on year seven.

edit: Sorry... added a year to both.

 

[Officerrob]

I can understand why people want to call hypocrisy with Live and Steam.

I just have two issues with those arguments.

1. Console gaming and PC gaming are different. Just because steps have been taken over the years to make them more similar doesn't mean that there still isn't a divide. PC gaming needed to switch to a CD-key setup over a decade ago because it would have died out otherwise.

2. There's a slope. It may be slippery. But there's a tipping point, and Microsoft is driving headlong over the ledge.

Isn't that slope leading toward 100% digital download consoles? Does anyone think that's not where we are going regardless?

 

[pieatorium]

And as for the second part I could have sworn it took almost two years into the PS3/360 generation before PS2 hit the current lows of the PS3/360. But again that's probably just because the PS2 had only been on shelves for six years when that happened. 360 is on year seven.

edit: Sorry... added a year to both.

Yeah ps2 took quite a while to get down to these levels but there was basically no other console from that gen selling at all. Individually the ps3 and 360 might be lower but combined they're still around the same as all 3 from back then

Isn't that slope leading toward 100% digital download consoles? Does anyone think that's not where we are going regardless?

It obviously is but online infrastructure worldwide, especially data restrictions is still a ways of fully supporting regular 25+ gb downloads in addition to the regular internet usage with streaming and such.

 

[Manmademan]

All completely valid points.

I just find myself at odds with some of the attempts at changing this market paradigm (I both love and hate this word) we've been under for a while now. I literally do think the issue of lost sales via piracy is well overstated. But that the used game market is a legitimate source of lost revenue for a lot of publishing giants.

I just don't think that matters and love Rockstars approach "Make a game people will play for months and the used game market becomes a small almost nonexistent threat to your profitability."

I actually had a lot of fun with AceBandage, but it's no question that he hoisted his fanboy flag high for all to see. I tried to be one of the more calming influences in those threads. Always saying "At the absolute best WiiU would be a half step console."

And as for the second part I could have sworn it took almost two years into the PS3/360 generation before PS2 hit the current lows of the PS3/360. But again that's probably just because the PS2 had only been on shelves for six years when that happened. 360 is on year seven.

edit: Sorry... added a year to both.

It may be important to note that pricing for the PS3 and 360 is MUCH higher than it was for the PS2 at this point as well. By this time the PS2, GC, and Xbox had been selling to budget gamers for years.

At current price points those gamers are still priced out of the market and have not jumped in. Console sales for the PS3 and 360 would be significantly higher if they were selling for $129-149 instead of $200-279

 

[Iacobellis]

It may be important to note that pricing for the PS3 and 360 is MUCH higher than it was for the PS2 at this point as well. By this time the PS2, GC, and Xbox had been selling to budget gamers for years.

At current price points those gamers are still priced out of the market and have not jumped in. Console sales for the PS3 and 360 would be significantly higher if they were selling for $129-149 instead of $200-279

Yeah, I remember the Xbox being $150, PS2 around $120, and GameCube was $100 at the time of the 360 launch.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

It may be important to note that pricing for the PS3 and 360 is MUCH higher than it was for the PS2 at this point as well. By this time the PS2, GC, and Xbox had been selling to budget gamers for years.

At current price points those gamers are still priced out of the market and have not jumped in. Console sales for the PS3 and 360 would be significantly higher if they were selling for $129-149 instead of $200-279

I actually don't think so to your second point.

I'd wager that those people already bit the bullet and bought in. Just between 360 and PS3 alone you're looking at a higher market total than the PS2. Toss in the Wii and the entire American videogame market is significantly larger than it was in the generation prior. Part of the reason I don't expect much from price drops for any of them. Over 100 million units this generation versus 80 million last.

 

[benny_a]

I bought Bioshock Infinite on green man gaming before release for €34. I got Bishock 1, Bioshock 2 and XCOM: Enemy Unknown for free in addition to Infinite. On consoles, I would have paid €60 just for an inferior version of Infinite. I think this is relevant to the discussion.

Stop repeating the tired falsehood that only PC games are available for cheaper at launch and consoles games are always MSRP.

Just stick with on average the PC prices are lower than console games, but that you can only get console games at launch for MSRP is a demonstrable falsehood which can be remedied by reading the Cheap Arse Gaffer |Europe| thread.

 

[fredrancour]

Isn't that slope leading toward 100% digital download consoles? Does anyone think that's not where we are going regardless?

I'm starting to get the feeling that publishers/microsoft don't think it's inevitable, if they feel the need to try so hard to force it.

 

[Big_Al]

Stop repeating the tired falsehood that only PC games are available for cheaper at launch and consoles games are always MSRP.

Just stick with on average the PC prices are lower than console games, but that you can only get console games at launch for MSRP is a demonstrable falsehood which can be remedied by reading the Cheap Arse Gaffer |Europe| thread.

It's hardly a falsehood though. I buy both console and PC games and most of the time PC games are at least £10 cheaper. Generally for example a console game will be cheapest at £30 - £35 for a new release (usually closer to £35). Sure it can drop a few weeks later and there may be the odd deal before release but it's pretty consistent pricewise. Of course there are exceptions in both camps.

 

[Proven]

And you think the current console business model is sustainable and able to fight off the competition from newly emerging platforms, including the rejuvenated PC? I don't, and I also thought many people here were predicting a crash just months ago.

Well if there wasn't going to be a crash there will be now.

What kitch said. I see Microsoft speeding up a market crash in the console space.

Less impressive when you consider that this generation lasted a lot longer than the previous one. Even in this exceedingly long generation, Sony only managed to generate losses, Microsoft made some money, and Nintendo was the only true winner when it comes to profitability (sure, they messed up in other ways). One other thing that's worth noting is that Nintendo achieved their success precisely because they decided to step away from the established market paradigms.

I don't know, these new measures might not be the answer at all, they might prove the wrong way of solving the industry's problems. It's hard to tell at this point, only time will tell. However, they sure beat not attempting to change anything.

True, they need to do something. But I can't see how Microsoft's direction is the right way.

 

[Alebrije]

MS damage management :

-spread the word, Xbone will be as A
great as Steam.

 

[benny_a]

It's hardly a falsehood though. I buy both console and PC games and most of the time PC games are at least £10 cheaper. Generally for example a console game will be cheapest at £30 - £35 for a new release (usually closer to £35). Sure it can drop a few weeks later and there may be the odd deal before release but it's pretty consistent pricewise. Of course there are exceptions in both camps.

As I said, they are cheaper on average.

What I have issue with is that he continues to say in his posts (this isn't the first time Durante has argued this point on GAF and I have 8 GB of memory so I remember) that all console games are always 60 EUR on launch while everything is always amazing on the PC market place.
Especially the BioShock Infinite example (which I bought as well) was unprecedented and could be perceived as being cherry picked. ;-)

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Are people ok with Live offers? They're a joke 80% of the time. If that's what we can expect for trading our consumer rights I'd say is bullshit.

 

[werks]

Guys, Xbone is having yield issues just like steam!

 

[Mandoric]

Less impressive when you consider that this generation lasted a lot longer than the previous one. Even in this exceedingly long generation, Sony only managed to generate losses, Microsoft made some money, and Nintendo was the only true winner when it comes to profitability (sure, they messed up in other ways). One other thing that's worth noting is that Nintendo achieved their success precisely because they decided to step away from the established market paradigms.

I don't know, these new measures might not be the answer at all, they might prove the wrong way of solving the industry's problems. It's hard to tell at this point, only time will tell. However, they sure beat not attempting to change anything.

Last gen was also full of the HD twins fighting multibillion dollar campaigns to be the best HD twin. If money isn't being poured down that hole, balance sheets start to look a lot better all around.

 

[Htown]

Isn't that slope leading toward 100% digital download consoles? Does anyone think that's not where we are going regardless?

Is there any reason to think that we are going in that direction other than "because reasons?"

Game retail is still alive and well. The best-selling console and handheld of the last generation were the least download-friendly ones.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Is there any reason to think that we are going in that direction other than "because reasons?"

Game retail is still alive and well. The best-selling console and handheld of the last generation were the least download-friendly ones.

Wish ppl could offer real data when they says that console gaming is almost there in being 100% digital.

 

[Myshkin]

No, that is not true. What you are saying is false. There is no overheating. The chips simply are not fast enough, but heat is not the issue. Hell, SRAM usually runs pretty cool since such a small part of it is active at any one time.

WTF, totally backwards.

The SRAM is always active. It will be the hottest section. What discourages huge SRAM is precisely the heat dissipation problem. With a huge eSRAM, when you hear of yield problems, it's totally reasonable to be suspicious of the SRAM heat.

 

[Drek]

Last gen was also full of the HD twins fighting multibillion dollar campaigns to be the best HD twin. If money isn't being poured down that hole, balance sheets start to look a lot better all around.

Lets not undersell the significant impact this had on third parties either. Supporting the three pronged HD market (PS3, Xbox 360, and PC) all with massively different architectures had a significant hand in the ballooning of staff sizes and game budgets.

There is a reason why Uncharted 1 and 2 both cost ~$20M USD with top tier HD art assets while the AAA multi-plats cost 2 or even 3 times that. Squeezing the same game and assets onto the Cell with a custom Nvidia chip, a PowerPC with custom ATi chip and EDRAM, and making a Windows version isn't exactly "free".

The now universal x86 base and unified memory architecture is going to save the development side of the industry millions of dollars per title.

Wish ppl could offer real data when they says that console gaming is almost there in being 100% digital.

Yep. When will my 1 GB/s broadband be arriving to make this all possible?

I think we'll see digital distro as an optional format alongside retail up until streaming services take over the market and user side storage will be at a minimum.

 

[watership]

This is what Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb had to say about a majority of GAF after this topic came up.

"GAF has such a hard-on to see the Xbox One fail, I'd reserve judgement. Place is full of frothing Sony fans."

-------------

Yes Brad this MUST be it.

Where did Brad make this comment? Podcast? Twitter?

 

[Mandoric]

Lets not undersell the significant impact this had on third parties either. Supporting the three pronged HD market (PS3, Xbox 360, and PC) all with massively different architectures had a significant hand in the ballooning of staff sizes and game budgets.

There is a reason why Uncharted 1 and 2 both cost ~$20M USD with top tier HD art assets while the AAA multi-plats cost 2 or even 3 times that. Squeezing the same game and assets onto the Cell with a custom Nvidia chip, a PowerPC with custom ATi chip and EDRAM, and making a Windows version isn't exactly "free".

The now universal x86 base and unified memory architecture is going to save the development side of the industry millions of dollars per title.

On the other hand, decent portions of those platform losses were made underwriting third-party marketing campaigns. It's a double-edged sword.

 

[3rdamention]

Well, I guess it is time to post this here. I posted it in another thread, and does a pretty good job of explaining why the Xbox One is not like Steam. Some of you are still trying to make that argument.



First of all, its completely off topic to this thread. Second, it is like Steam is becoming a way for people to except the policies of Xbox One, "but, but, but, its just like Steam!" Uhmm, no its not!



No, the Xbox One is not just like Steam!





They are not the same!

 

[kitch9]

Less impressive when you consider that this generation lasted a lot longer than the previous one. Even in this exceedingly long generation, Sony only managed to generate losses, Microsoft made some money, and Nintendo was the only true winner when it comes to profitability (sure, they messed up in other ways). One other thing that's worth noting is that Nintendo achieved their success precisely because they decided to step away from the established market paradigms.

I don't know, these new measures might not be the answer at all, they might prove the wrong way of solving the industry's problems. It's hard to tell at this point, only time will tell. However, they sure beat not attempting to change anything.

This has to be the stupidest post I've read all day, jesus.

Lol, it's our fault the manufacturers didn't make money in an industry that saw record growth in revenue.

Nothing to do with Sony trying to ram blu ray drives they couldn't make in large numbers cheap down our throats or MS making machines that literally fried themselves to death in their millions.

It's all our fault.

Don't be an apologist dude, the multi billion dollar corporations are old enough to make their own decisions and don't need you sticking up for them.

 

[mbmonk]

This is what Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb had to say about a majority of GAF after this topic came up.

"GAF has such a hard-on to see the Xbox One fail, I'd reserve judgement. Place is full of frothing Sony fans."

-------------

Yes Brad this MUST be it.

exactly. this is a stealthy ad hominem attack by Brad. its a pretty scummy one at that.

it paints all critics of ms policy as Sony fanboys, despite there being plenty of 360 owners who have spoke out against the same policies.



stuff like above makes me want to vomit.

 

[QaaQer]

exactly. this is a stealthy ad hominem attack by Brad. its a pretty scummy one at that.

it paints all critics of ms policy as Sony fanboys, despite there being plenty of 360 owners who have spoke out against the same policies.



stuff like above makes me want to vomit.

It's miles better than the Kuchera shit eating human centipede comment though.

 

[Proven]

Can we please, please, please stop talking about that line from Brad? We already had two or three straight pages of quoting that one comment.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

LOL at the GiantBomb guy saying it's purely Sony fanboys. I owned a 360 and nearly 100 games for it.

Sorry, Brad. This isn't a fanboy issue. This is a consumer rights issue. Pull back from Microsoft's teat and open your eyes and you might be able to see that.

I agree. I have 77 xbox 360 games and 17 ps3 games (18 with the last of us next week). Wow, what a sony fanboy i am.

I just think you can see that most of the press isn`t spending their money to play games and just get them gifted. No wonder they have a relaxed attitude toward MS anti consumer attempt.

 

[FuturusX]

Apart from never having to change a disc. X1's new fangled media licensing has zero advantage over traditional physical media.

That's the truth of it. We are being asked to Incur the same cost for an inferior product.

We have a better product now in just about every way.

 

[obonicus]

"GAF has such a hard-on to see the Xbox One fail, I'd reserve judgement. Place is full of frothing Sony fans."

It's not like these topics are filled top to bottom in composed, measured discourse. There's plenty, sure, but there also is tons (I'd say way more, but that may be an issue of perception) of 'saveussonykaz.gif', a lot of it from the usual culprits who in the past have defended Sony's own shittiness.

You can't even have a conversation about any of this; it's all black and white nonsense. Especially since an admin went ahead and mentioned that the place is full of shills, and it's clear the forum doesn't have the maturity to handle that sort of information; now you're seriously getting 'your opinion diverges from the majority, that's very suspicious, comrade' in posts.

Which is a pity, since this used games issue is a lot more nuanced (like most things) than we want it to be, but we'll never air it out here. All we'll get it 'ANTI-CONSUMER' barked out louder and louder. Which, sure, this XBOne thing is, but it's also a shitty, half-baked implementation.

Before it was confirmed that Gamestop was in on it the discourse had shifted to something akin to 'save our Gamestop', that's how frothing this whole thing has gotten.

Hell, I've never ever liked MS as a platform holder and I think this thing has gone completely out of hand. There's an insane feedback loop going on -- the forum's been angry for a while, and it's finally found something actually worth getting angry about, so it's losing its mind.

 

[Neuromancer]

Crazy buttocks on a train where are you

 

[AzaK]

Isn't that slope leading toward 100% digital download consoles? Does anyone think that's not where we are going regardless?

I was about to post this. This move by MS is just to prepare people for a totally digital console future with no ownership. It's a future that I see coming but will resist as much as I can and I hope that laws come into affect around the world to ensure we "own" the software we purchase and can onsell and loan it if we wish.

Oops, I just realised what thread I'm in. I think we've gone way off topic of the eSRAM.

 

[Foxix Von]

I still find it really interesting that Crazy Butt hasn't commented on the downclock rumor.

It seems a little unlike him to only comment on half a rumor. This leads me to think that maybe that info would make him a little easier to single out, but I'm not sure. Honestly I'd rather think that he hasn't commented on it because he can't corroborate enough info on the downclock rumor to actually make a truthfact statement. This could either be because it's difficult to get info on, or because MS hasn't made up it's collectively freakish Ballmer hivemind. It's possible they are just planning on pumping out enough chips to see if yields can either improve or they can get enough working to launch, and if they can't then they initiate the downclock.

If they have a plan going forward then Nelson's comment makes sense. They're not having problems with production because everything is going according to plan. A very sloppy, fucked up, disorganized plan.

I wonder if Crazy Butt's next comment before Microsoft's Monday morning conference will concern Xbone demo's using non final yet to be downclocked hardware...

 

[Durante]

As I said, they are cheaper on average.

What I have issue with is that he continues to say in his posts (this isn't the first time Durante has argued this point on GAF and I have 8 GB of memory so I remember) that all console games are always 60 EUR on launch while everything is always amazing on the PC market place.

Please find the exact post (using your 8GB memory) where I claim that "all console games are always 60 EUR on launch". I don't think I'm wont to make such sweeping generalizations, but maybe I had a lapse in judgement. It would be laughable not just because of deals, but also because some console games actually launch at a retail price of €70 here!
I do know that I have made a number of posts on how to get console games cheaper as a European -- I personally wouldn't pay €60 for the vast majority of games, but I still buy plenty of console titles.

In any case, the exact price is hardly relevant. What is relevant is the significant difference in the value proposition.

Oh, and I also don't recall me ever saying that "everything is always amazing on the PC market place." In fact, I have often argued with Steam hard-liners that it's hardly the best place for deals these days, and that its dominance should not be further encouraged. However, I won't apologize for saying that an open marketplace is always better in the long run for everyone involved than a closed one controlled by a single corporation. Well, for everyone except that one corporation.

 

[benny_a]

Please find the exact post (using your 8GB memory) where I claim that "all console games are always 60 EUR on launch".

I didn't use quotation marks. I wasn't quoting you. I was representing what you said. I could find several posts by you where you automatically jump to 60EUR for console titles while using the best deal you've found or used yourself for PC titles though. (Just as you did with BioShock Infinite that prompted my reply.)

In any case, the exact price is hardly relevant. What is relevant is the significant difference in the value proposition.

And all I'm saying is that point is valid and a strong argument in favor of the PC platform without insinuating that console titles only sell at MSRP at launch.

I won't apologize for saying that an open marketplace is always better in the long run for everyone involved than a closed one controlled by a single corporation. Well, for everyone except that one corporation.

We have no disagreement here at all. I completely concur. The reason why I pre-ordered The Last of Us for 42 EUR today is because of competition.

 

[Pennywise]

Crazy buttocks on a train where are you

Welp.
Isn't he gonna drop another bomb on monday ?

 

[Durante]

I didn't use quotation marks. I wasn't quoting you. I was representing what you said. I could find several posts by you where you automatically jump to 60EUR for console titles while using the best deal you've found or used yourself for PC titles though. (Just as you did with BioShock Infinite that prompted my reply.)


And all I'm saying is that point is valid and a strong argument in favor of the PC platform without insinuating that console titles only sell at MSRP at launch.

From my point of view, going from me picking a single price point for a quick comparison to "he continues to say in his posts that all console games are always 60 EUR on launch" is not really an accurate representation.

Still, I agree that it wasn't a fair comparison, and I'll make sure to be more exact in the future. Maybe something like "always searching for the best deal for both PC and console games on day one I pay around 15-20€ more for the latter on average".

 

[DBT85]

Welp.
Isn't he gonna drop another bomb on monday ?

If he can confirm it, yes.

Help us CBoat, you're our only hope.

 

[WrenchNinja]

You can't even have a conversation about any of this; it's all black and white nonsense. Especially since an admin went ahead and mentioned that the place is full of shills, and it's clear the forum doesn't have the maturity to handle that sort of information; now you're seriously getting 'your opinion diverges from the majority, that's very suspicious, comrade' in posts.

Which is a pity, since this used games issue is a lot more nuanced (like most things) than we want it to be, but we'll never air it out here. All we'll get it 'ANTI-CONSUMER' barked out louder and louder. Which, sure, this XBOne thing is, but it's also a shitty, half-baked implementation.
ing its mind.

That's because it is black and white. Used games are not the real issue and just another scapegoat.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Welp.
Isn't he gonna drop another bomb on monday ?

Only if another source comes through. It's alright, the Buttocks has done so much lately.

 

[Ironchef3500]

Given the hoops you have to jump through with most consoles I can't see software piracy being such a huge issue for consoles. Which means these initiatives are focusing on a really small subset of the market. I mean software sales between Wii, 360, and PS3 are on par if not exceeding software sales for the prior generation of PS2, Xbox, and GCN.

You're looking at no lost software sales from the prior generation and a substantive uptick in hardware sales. Impressive, given no console had the lock on the market and overwhelming software support of the PS2.

On the PC it is literally as easy as finding a place to DL the title. Which is why there was such a change in that market.

On consoles these newly minted DRM practices are fighting an almost nonexistent enemy.

edit: At the potential expense of legit buyers like me.

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Pyramid head]

It's miles better than the Kuchera shit eating human centipede comment though.

That was entirely stupid and ironic. The Human Centipede is all about swallowing shit, not refusing to. How does Microsoft's taste I wonder?

The Sony fanboy accusation is the laziest accusation you could lay at anyone's feet over this too. The only current gen console I own is a 360, yet I still find myself disgusted by the the things Microsoft are doing with the Xbone. If I was a Sony fanboy, I wouldn't care so much.