Yeah, it got bad with the RW then the mods cleaned it up. There's no point in bringing up that now...
If you don't want spoilers though, GRRM has something he wants to tell you.
Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Yeah, it got bad with the RW then the mods cleaned it up. There's no point in bringing up that now...
If you don't want spoilers though, GRRM has something he wants to tell you.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
I ALSO realized that the reason Jon didn't stay to investigate the two direwolves nearby him could be because he was demonstrating where his true loyalties lie. And the place where those loyalties lie actually dictates that you have no family besides the night's watch. I wish we could see in his head. I wonder if he was thinking something along the lines of "maybe my brothers are somewhere nearby...should I look for them? no, my brothers are on the wall and I have to get back"
Just throwing it out there because I've seen people wonder why he didn't stop to think about the two direwolves. Maybe he did and he just chose not to investigate.
Just throwing it out there because I've seen people wonder why he didn't stop to think about the two direwolves. Maybe he did and he just chose not to investigate.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
"Being apart of a wedding"
NO! It's "part of" or "a part of". "apart of" means you are not part of it. WHAT ARE SCHOOLS TEACHING KIDS THESES DAYS?
And why is it so faaaaat???
NO! It's "part of" or "a part of". "apart of" means you are not part of it. WHAT ARE SCHOOLS TEACHING KIDS THESES DAYS?
And why is it so faaaaat???
Last Hearth
Member
http://www.avclub.com/articles/why-game-of-thrones-red-wedding-packs-such-an-emot,98566/
I have a long-brewing theory that Martin is the worlds most cynical romantic. Ive never yet read a Martin novel or story that ended in utter despair for any character who hadnt thoroughly earned itand Ive read him extensively, from his 1977 debut novel, Dying Of The Light, to his many short-story collections and the entire Song Of Ice And Fire series. His work has always embraced bleakness, loneliness, and hardship, with tough-minded people muddling through traumas that perpetually threaten to break them. His protagonists rarely get exactly what they want; often, they can consider themselves lucky if they become wise enough to realize they wanted the wrong thing. His characters often make hard, ugly choices to survive, but those choices make them stronger and fiercer, and more capable of protecting themselves from the hatefulness of the predatory worlds they live in.
Martins cynical side can be overpowering: Characters who start his stories with naïve faith in honor, loyalty, or loveespecially their own one-sided, demanding love, as opposed to a mutual bondare commonly punished for their beliefs. But his romantic side holds just as steady, with the most steadfast and worthy characters prevailing. As I put it in that Gateways, For a man whose writing is so often ruthless and uncompromising, he has a hell of a sentimental streak when it comes to questions of injustice, honor, nobility, personal dignity against long odds, and wrongs that need to be righted at any cost.
Ive said this over and over when writing about Martins work. What he does better than any author Ive ever encounteredwhat defines his writing for meis his masterful skill at exploiting the tension between the desire for justice and the availability of that justice. But that doesnt mean there is no justice, just that its always hard-won and thoroughly earned. Robb and Catelyns grotesque ends complicate the search for justice considerably, and move it far into the future. But it doesnt make the quest impossible. It just means itll be that much sweeter and that much more satisfying when it finally arrives.
Cause....reasons...
(I didn't feel like spending more than four minutes on either of them.)
You're assuming I know how to read.
...My being able to use this message board proves nothing.
(I'll probably borrow them from the library)
So we can wait another 5 years for book 6 like the rest of those book reading suckers? I see their game!
They're just trying to suck us in to their pit of despair!
Aight so season finale tomorrow, gotcha.
People that want to give up on this show need to think that the payout in the end is going to be that much greater. No matter what, there will be SOME level of satisfaction and watching Joffrey die by WHOEVER does it will be quite splendid and I never thought I'd say that about a character on TV. There's plenty of sides to still root for and the greater mysteries are there to keep you intrigued even if you do lose faith so stick around and know that it might not happen next season or even the season after that, but there WILL be justice on some level.
This show might be extremely different, but no matter what, there's going to be some sort of payoff to the people down in the dumps right now or else they would have chosen a different family to attach people to considering how well we know the Stark kids compared to the other familes. Will it ease the pain of the Starks dying so frequently? Probably not. But will it be worth it to see at least one of them triumph in the end? I think so. The majority of the characters will be around for a long time
In Bran and Rickon we trust. Bran is going to lead the white walker army to King's Landing and kill Tywin with Joffrey's crossbow and Rickon is going to successfully secede the North from the Seven Kingdoms while creating a throne chair made out of the bones of dead Boltons. Ok, I might be getting a little too crazy, but I do think Bran is going to do something for the greater good of all of Westeros and Rickon will be a leader someday that's just and honorable like his family, but will do what's necessary and play the game of politics to make sure his family survives thanks to the lessons he's had to learn throughout his whole life. In this world, honor only gets you so far and now most of the recent events have taught him that survival trumps all...
I might be an optimist, but there's always good characters and events to get sucked into even if the Starks completely disappeared. I like some of the characters that aren't as noble and kind as that Starks, but that doesn't mean I have to hate them. I just like their characters and the moves they make.
This show might be extremely different, but no matter what, there's going to be some sort of payoff to the people down in the dumps right now or else they would have chosen a different family to attach people to considering how well we know the Stark kids compared to the other familes. Will it ease the pain of the Starks dying so frequently? Probably not. But will it be worth it to see at least one of them triumph in the end? I think so. The majority of the characters will be around for a long time
In Bran and Rickon we trust. Bran is going to lead the white walker army to King's Landing and kill Tywin with Joffrey's crossbow and Rickon is going to successfully secede the North from the Seven Kingdoms while creating a throne chair made out of the bones of dead Boltons. Ok, I might be getting a little too crazy, but I do think Bran is going to do something for the greater good of all of Westeros and Rickon will be a leader someday that's just and honorable like his family, but will do what's necessary and play the game of politics to make sure his family survives thanks to the lessons he's had to learn throughout his whole life. In this world, honor only gets you so far and now most of the recent events have taught him that survival trumps all...
I might be an optimist, but there's always good characters and events to get sucked into even if the Starks completely disappeared. I like some of the characters that aren't as noble and kind as that Starks, but that doesn't mean I have to hate them. I just like their characters and the moves they make.
Steelyuhas
Member
She would still use his blood to prove "the power of Kings blood" to Davos being something along the lines of only Kings blood can make Kings fall.
You really think that a curse from Melisandre caused Robb's death?
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Note: I'll post this with the episode preview tomorrow, but tomorrow's episode will run longer than 60 minutes, so plan accordingly with DVRs and such.
I think it's hilarious how so many viewers trust Mellisandre so much.
Everything about her screams fraud to me. She does have some kind of power, and obviously she was able to pull off an assassination with the shadow creature but it was something that drained so much out of her that she's obviously unable to do that again at this point in time. If it were as simple as burning leeches with king's blood to kill people why didn't she do that the first time? It sure seems a hell of a lot easier than going through labor of a shadow assassin.
No, this is obviously a farce. She's using her visions in the flames to trick Stannis and Davos into believing her more since faith was wavering. I've said it time and time again, every other time she's shown magic it's been obvious that she was the cause and you could clearly see the effect.
Robb's death was something a long time coming, there was nothing supernatural about his death at all.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
No I DON'T think that. I'm saying she meant it as a curse. I don't know why you got the impression I think she caused Robb's death. The very fact that I mentioned a valid counterargument Davos could put out shows that I'm not that foolish. It's not a prophecy. The whole ceremony was meant as a curse, and I doubt it's something she saw in the flames for the reasons I listed.
Why would a curse made a few days before Robb's death that had been planned out by his enemies for so long have any effect at all on how the RW played out?
Edit: Okay, I've read over your last post a few times. And you're saying she intended it as a curse but that doesn't necessarily mean it worked? Am I right?
I can't say I agree, since I think Mellisandre comes off as very manipulative and disingenuous it seems far more likely that she's simply unable to pull off any assassinations at this point and is resorting to parlour tricks to try and keep her position.
I find it odd that so many viewers trust her power as much as they do.
This season seems much faster than season 2. I can't speak for season 1 though because I didn't watch season 1 until a few months after it was over.
Doctor West
Member
Stop killing all the dire wolves. Jesus.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
I will spell it out as clearly as I can, in case we are all saying the same thing but something is getting lost in the wording.
I think she didn't see anything in the flames. It's not a prophecy, as the original post I replied to worded it. It's her taking his blood to show power, getting lucky, and taking it as proof that a king's blood has power.
It was said "I'd like to see the rest of the Red Witch's prophecy fulfilled in the finale" and I was saying that what she was doing for the benefit of Davos wasn't her delivering some sort of prophecy. If that's not what the OP of this discussion meant and I just misunderstood, then this is a pretty unnecessary conversation.
She was delivering what she believed to be a curse intended to prove that Gendry's blood is powerful. This curse has no bearing on what just happened, Davos will be the one to think logically about the situation. Melisandre, having seen various wonders done by her god, will have no reason to think logically about it and will take it as proof the curse worked.
StunandStab
Member
This. I've lost track of which ones died and are still alive.
How many are left?
The dire wolves are awesome, they need to stop dying in totally unfair ways.
If they have to die, have them go out while tearing up some bad dude's throat or something.
blainethemono
Member
2 have been killed so far. Sansa's wolf was executed in the second episode of the series, Robb's wolf died last episode
Jon's wolf is somewhere north of the wall, Arya's hasn't been seen since she ran off, and Rickon and Bran have been with their wolves the entire time
That's much better worded and I understand where you're coming from. A tad bit patronising at first but thank you for explaining your view. Let's see what happens, regardless there's some kind of power at work behind the scenes and it'll be interesting to see just how much of that Mellisandre actually has control over.
Huh... totally thought it was more then that.
Well Arya's wolf Nymeria hasn't been seen since the first season I think so it feels like they might as well have killed her off lol.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
If they're smart, they'll play it cool and lie dormant. Lull the Boltons into a false sense of security and then strike. I don't think the retaliation or response will be swift at all. They just got out of fighting a war and the Boltons will be backed by the Freys and all the alliances the Lannisters have. No, the smart thing to do is pull a Stannis and kind of wait to regain strength. Down, but not out. Of course, that's assuming they will take any revenge in the first place. They could just say fuck it, I didn't lose any family at that wedding. Why should I do anything to avenge the Starks?
kellycandthedragons
Banned
Didn't mean to be patronizing, I acknowledged that I could just be misunderstanding what is being said. Apologies, kind ser. I just think that it makes for a much more interesting commentary on faith and paranormal activities if it wasn't something she saw beforehand. A battle of the religious extremes. You would have Davos on one side looking at things very rationally and somewhat jaded by his experiences with the gods or lack thereof, and on the other side you have the arrogant, self-righteous zealous believer who believes they have seen things that make the correctness of their view undeniable. I mean look at how she talked to Beric about seeing the other side. I got the feeling she wanted to talk to him for hours about what it was like. It would make her much less interesting if this is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors put up to mask her mad grab for power on the coattails of Stannis.
Steelyuhas
Member
Aye, makes sense.
Personally, I still think she saw deaths in the flames and took advantage of that, so she knew she'd be "correct", but what you're saying could definitely be the case as well.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
I think Walder Frey watched a bit too much breaking bad and decided no more half measures.
Yup. That's why it's going to be quite some time for justice but I meant to see how the North even reacts to the new people and if there are any political strategies talked about in secret next season. I don't think they'll strike for some time either, but I hope to see some "fight" left in them and give us hope that it WILL be remembered and it's just a matter of when. They'll wait until everyone else has forgotten and think the Starks are long gone and aren't even missed while most of the troops are facing a different threat elsewhere, and then they'll get their vengeance. I'm just curious to see the families that still feel loyal to the Starks and betrayed by the Boltons and I hope some of that is evident in the next season but maybe the showrunners will want to make it seem like it came out of nowhere so we get an uplifting surprise for a change.
There's a lot of different places this show can go now and I don't expect true vengeance for quite a while but I do want to see the reactions from the North's major families if they do choose to make it obvious to the viewers.
In the end though, the show wouldn't even bring up common theme of "The North remembers", etc. Sometimes the most satisfying moments in life are the ones you wait years for and it's clear that they might lead us to believe that the North is done this season and next, but that doesn't mean it's not going to happen. Martin might like to break people's expectations, but in a way, justice for the Starks years from now might be breaking some people's expectations right now too considering how many people mentioned wanting to give up the show because the "good guys are dead".
Nothing is too predictable in this show but the signs are always there for people who notice them and it's more evident as you go back and watch older episodes again so I think the signs are there already and will be there in the future suggesting that it's not over yet.
If it is over, then the White Walkers need to kick some ass already. Justice through an unlikely protagonist!
After reading the douts that Jon Snow might not be Ned Stark's son in the last page i was wondering... is there any chance he's actually Lyanna Stark's son? For all we know the Targaryen prince might have raped her (or had consensual sex, who knows). Ned doesn't seem like a person that would father a bastard, maybe he promised not to tell because no one can know how Robert would have reacted.
Man this is heart breaking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9LeaJQQ5g (forward to 7:40)
Yes but most Targaryen kept the white hair also because they were always inbreeding, which obviously wouldn't be the case with Jon Snow. I mean it happens all the time that a son looks more like this mother than his father.
That's hard to watch :lol
You can tell she's a mum who can totally relate to Cat's feelings.
I almost teared up watching that! Best reaction video out there.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It was horrendous. I laughed a bit at his initial despair, but it was pretty awful stuff by the end.
Edit: The one with the longer face looks a bit like Lysa Arryn. Coincidence?
horrible....
hahaha that's great, you could see her getting closer and closer to despair.
That's more devastating to watch than the actual episode.
Am I the only one who feels weird seeing all these people have such strong reactions to a
Tywin might not let the north slide. Unless the Lannisters suffers an unexpected setback, maybe he'll raze the north and make it a vassal state. Northonly had like 20 000 men right, including Boltons and Karstarks? Tywin + Tyrells have 50k+ if I understand things correctly. Renly alone had 80k and most of them have now joined the Lannisters.
Well if we are going to list feats don't forget she also deliberately drank poison. She subtly casted a spell that made the jewel around her neck glow before she swallowed.
The ways she could be a fraud are going to be for less obvious reasons. It wouldn't surprise me if Melissendra gets her comeuppance for presuming too much about what she knows a divine being's ultimate goals are. That's a game of thrones mortals can't play.
i really wanted to get my mom to watch this show but stuff like this :< i know my mom would react twice as harshly when cat has to watch rob die
Nameless
Member
The thread Melisandre is weaving is a combination of truth, fiction, and knowledge of future events that that may or may not be set it stone. Ultimately she's playing the Game like everyone else. What she said about the long winter to come and the dead rising in the north is coming to pass, and surely there will be a 'Warrior of Light' who pulls Lightbringer out of the flames, but it's not Stannis. Somehow I don't think the actual wielder of Lightbringer will need a giant flame retardant glove--that part of the ceremony was so blatantly contrived to blow smoke up Stannis's ass he played right into it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YmVI84iYOQ
He proved himself more of a problem than a pawn when he sailed for Blackwater without Melisandre. In the unlikely event that he ever played into her/The Lord's plan long term, he doesn't anymore. His days are numbered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tYp0eMAzrFM#t=80s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YmVI84iYOQ
He proved himself more of a problem than a pawn when he sailed for Blackwater without Melisandre. In the unlikely event that he ever played into her/The Lord's plan long term, he doesn't anymore. His days are numbered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tYp0eMAzrFM#t=80s
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's not exactly uncommon for people to emotionally invest in fictional stories they love. We've being doing it for, well, ever.
I usually watch the show with a befriended couple once I get the blurays. But I don't know if she will be able to handle that episode. I'm not afraid she might be too invested but she usually only watches "feel good" movies and I cannot imagine how she could stomach the red wedding...
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