Or you're dead inside.
Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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The poster already said
Which is as much as a "my bad" as anything. Furthermore, you initiated the spat with this comment:
Which is the first comment to make a point of questioning why someone would enjoy something in a specific way.
Why are continuing with this antagonism?
Nameless
Member
What I found so disquieting was the suddenness of it all. Imagine watching a version of Rocky II where he's mugged and murdered while jogging 45 mins in...that's it story over. The knowledge that our lives could come to a screeching halt at any moment is perhaps the most unsettling part of being alive. GRRM managed to take those feelings, all of the underlying tension & paranoia that follows, and insert them into his story. So yeah, totally agreed. Can't think of another show where the stakes were this high for, well, everyone. No one is safe. Survival is the exception.
I take issue with this.
I don't think the bolded was Robb being noble at all. He was being incredibly selfish.
Sure, in our world, marrying for "Twu Wuv" and all that Jazz is noble and admirable and bla bla bla.
But this is Westeros. And Robb is a king. And Marriages are contracts. And they are at war.
He was sworn to marry the daughter of an important ally, and then he turned around and broke that oath without a second thought. Probably the greatest show of disrespect Robb could have committed short of an outright act of violence. And then, as the icing on top of this foul cake, he STILL expects the support of the Freys.
And then as the cherry on top of that cake, HE SHOWS UP WITH HIS WIFE AND PROCEEDS TO FLAUNT HER AROUND COURT. Seems to me the Stark men are "noble" until their dicks are concerned.
Maybe Robb couldn't have expected to be slaughtered, but he was a complete dumbass for thinking that his act of blatant disregard towards another prideful family would be without consequence.
If you ask me, the Stark family is being decimated not because they're noble, but because they're fucking stupid.
Certainty is relative since none of us are really certain about what happens. What I meant was the Robb was the biggest and likeliest character to avenge Ned's death, being the eldest son, the new king of the north, leading his own army, and all the other reasons GRRM killed him. :lol
Robb was the best chance of avenging Ned. His death shifts that responsibility to characters less likely to get it done (Arya, for all her posturing, is still just a little girl; Jon and Bran are busy with their own things; Sansa is forever useless), but also calls into question the idea that there will be any revenge at all. I think Joffrey being killed horribly at some point is a safe bet, but if it's done by Stannis or the Tyrells or Daenerys, then it's not nearly as satisfying as having one of the Starks pull the trigger. It'd be like Robert's Rebellion all over again: Robert and Ned are the ones leading the charge against the Mad King to avenge the dead Starks, but it's Jamie who gets the kill.
Steelyuhas
Member
New episode tonight (season finale): Mhysa
Programming note: Tonight's episode will run longer than 60 minutes, so plan accordingly.
Synopsis said:
Programming note: Tonight's episode will run longer than 60 minutes, so plan accordingly.
Above 60 minutes? Has any other episode in the series gone that high yet?
Steelyuhas
Member
Yes, the first episode of the series ("Winter is Coming") and the final episode of last season ("Valar Morghulis") both ran longer than 60 minutes.
I've been watching the show exclusively on HBO Go this season, and they don't show it after the episode there.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
Hm yeah I was thinking of it in the long term. So in the sense that it's always going to be a will they/won't they situation. Either they get revenge or they don't. Since that question can go one of two ways, the way I see it, it will always be a 50/50 chance, regardless of the chances on a microscopic scale. Since there are so many threads in the story, I think it's easier to think of their chances on a large scale because there are just way too many constantly changing variables on the small scale. Unless every single northerner is dead and buried, Bran and Rickon are captured, tortured, and killed by psychoboy, Arya tries to duel the Mountain and loses, Sansa commits suicide (sadly, I'd be surprised if that doesn't happen next episode. What does she have to live for now? Littlefinger's gone and she's stuck with the family that did THIS to her own. Her home is burned and her brothers are dead.), and Jon falls off the top of the wall while on patrol duty, the chances of Stark revenge will be the same. Even though on the sublevels of the plot, the chances may be in flux. Will they, won't they, will they, won't they.
A lot of people don't like to see it. The people I work with who watch the show absolutely never watch the previews. They're stronger willed than I.
Steelyuhas
Member
You can discuss the preview and/or the synopsis under spoiler tags.
Silent_Bomber
Banned
Robb had a responsibility to his people, and when he chose to do what he wanted, and marry whoever he wanted, he put the lives of all his people at risk.
The guy was irresponsible, not honourable (though Ned probably would've married the Frey girl if roles were reversed IMO)
The guy was irresponsible, not honourable (though Ned probably would've married the Frey girl if roles were reversed IMO)
Some countries don't show it. Also, some people prefer not to watch previews or read anything about the next episode which is why Steelyuhas spoiler tags what's in the next episode. It's just out of respect for those people. You can discuss that stuff under spoiler tags according to the rules in the OP.
Interesting, thanks for the replies.
I understand, I was just curious about it since I thought most people watched the preview. Me and my friends always do! I don't mind the spoiler tags really.
Cheers
Nameless
Member
Robb could have taken a page out of Varys's book of patient methodical vengeance. The war was lost when the Karstarks road home. Even if he had secured Frey's support and taken Casterly Rock their long term situation would have remained the same assuming Tywin didn't do something stupid like meet Robb in open battle to reclaim it. The smart thing to do would have been to ride back North and send assassins to kill the Lannisters covertly.
I wouldn't underestimate Arya. She was already driven to avenge Ned, this will take her to another tier. Melisandre spoke of seeing darkness within her, and eyes staring back that she would shut forever. What's left for her than to track down Jaqen H'Ghar and learn to kill professionally?
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Eh... at least with Ned, he certainly lost the "game" because of his honor and ideals but Ned dying was an impulsive act by Joffrey that NO ONE else wanted. Just watch that scene in "Baelor" again with how everyone is flipping their shit once Joff orders Ned's execution. Tywin, Cersei, Varys and company didn't want Ned dead- the plan was for Ned to bend the knee and get shipped off to the Wall. So he lost the game, but in his case, losing the game shouldn't have meant his death, just his exile. Joffrey screwed everything up.
If he played it right, he would have never ended up in that position. He relied on people playing fairly, but there is no fairness in the game of thrones...because you win, or you die. And Ned died.
Robb should have teamed up the Stannis in the first place, but his mother sided with the Renly instead.
Didn't Stannis have no interest in teaming up with anyone?
kellycandthedragons
Banned
Arya has the possibility to become super interesting, in kind of a reverse Jaime way. I think her biggest problem has been seeing the world in terms of black and white. She's at an age where she hasn't yet developed a good sense of the grey areas. Part of that is being Ned Stark's daughter, but it's also her being immature. She carries a lot of hate and instead of being healed of it, I think she will be driven to commit acts that force her to develop this sense of grey morality that she has been missing. I think she will still have that strong sense of right and wrong, but will have to learn that it's not always so simple.
She gets angry at Sansa for lying. Yes, Sansa was stupid for that, but she was also put in a delicate position. She was brought before the king and asked to call his son a liar, something Ned tried to teach Arya, but she just couldn't understand. She hates the Hound for killing the butcher's boy, but refuses to see that there is potentially some good in there. She gets upset with the Brotherhood for selling Gendry because she can't comprehend that it's possible they sold him both for the gold and for their god. And now she's in a position where she will probably have to do some very questionable things if she hopes to survive. Then there's the issue of her saying she doesn't want to grow up to be a lady, but she sure slips into that role pretty easily when she needs to get back into the castle after she gets back from chasing cats. "I'm Arya Stark of Winterfell, let me in or my father, the hand of the king, will throw you in a dungeon!" or something like that. Arya's story moving forward can become soooo fascinating because we get to watch how she develops. PLUS there's this little nugget my friend gave me about season 1: Robert says to Ned "I have a son, you have a daughter, we'll join our houses." Well, it seems that Gendry didn't want to stay with Arya because she'd always be high born and he'd be a big nobody from the slums. Well he just found out he is Robert's son! And Arya is Ned's daughter! Future love connection?! Who knows. AGBDSKJGNGJDS I'm excited to see where Arya goes now.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
Everyone except Littlefinger, who has confessed to reveling in chaos. He's just kinda chillin there, in his element and loving it.
Littlefinger's trolling has been present even as early as Barristan's dismissal. If you watch that scene again, Littlefinger mocks Barristan, people laugh, and then Barristan pulls out his sword. It looks like a fight is about to break out and Littlefinger's biting his hand like he's eyeing a particularly attractive woman LOL
Ned's death- http://www.youtube.com/tv?v=map_Kj_b5-Y
everyone rushes over and is freaking out...but where is Littlefinger? Oh right, standing there with that shit-eating grin of his.
Barristan dismissed- http://www.youtube.com/tv?v=Z5QVK7FG6gI
Littlefinger is loving it. He is LOVING it.
sounds promising, looking forward to it
Sir Hamish
Member
Pretty much yeah.
He saw Robb as an usurper trying to steal half his kingdom away, which is why he got the leech treatment.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
HBO Wiki, or Tower of the Hand only (and make sure to set Tower of the Hand to either season 2 or book 2 so it doesn't go past that). This is where you go for info.
Yeah I had to stop reading wikis because they spoiled who was still alive in book 6.
Thank you. Will bookmark these.
tauroxd
Member
Exactly. They only had the Renly option.
If you want backstory, comicbookgirl19's videos on youtube are a good place to go. They're intended to be spoiler free, however they do talk about prior events that haven't been mentioned in the show. An answer to for example.. a question such as why Dany calls herself the blood of old Valyria in Season 2, I wouldn't consider a spoiler, but others might think differently.
I've shown them to all my friends and family members watching the show that haven't read the books and they've really enjoyed them and it made them understand the story better.
Edit: I should add if you're sensitive to hearing about foreshadowing and prophecies, don't watch them. On another forum's spoiler free thread, the links were posted and most loved them, but there were a handful that complained about that.
Edit 2: Her Targaryen video is 100% safe, even from this though.
I've shown them to all my friends and family members watching the show that haven't read the books and they've really enjoyed them and it made them understand the story better.
Edit: I should add if you're sensitive to hearing about foreshadowing and prophecies, don't watch them. On another forum's spoiler free thread, the links were posted and most loved them, but there were a handful that complained about that.
Edit 2: Her Targaryen video is 100% safe, even from this though.
I've rewatched Season 1 episodes 1 and 2 and it's lovely to pick on stuff. Like Daenerys talking to her servant about Qarth a lot in episode 2. And a scene where she goes into a bath in episode 1 and her servant is all 'don't go in yet it's much too hot!' and she doesn't seem to feel anything.
These blu-rays have a ridiculous amount of extra stuff. There's whole features on the history going back 1000s of years, narrated by the actors in character. Is discussing any of that out of bounds?
These blu-rays have a ridiculous amount of extra stuff. There's whole features on the history going back 1000s of years, narrated by the actors in character. Is discussing any of that out of bounds?
kellycandthedragons
Banned
My friend told me he posted a link to one of those in a television without pity board and got kicked out for "reading spoilers." He was like what in the hell? I don't think they even watched the video. He just said that there could be minor spoilers but he wasn't sure because he hadn't finished the video before posting it. They gave him a warning and said don't post anything outside what's been on the show, he thought it was cool to still post in that thread as long as he obeyed the rules, but they were all "I gave you one warning already, you're not allowed to post here at all if you read spoilers." Some forums just want to watch the world burn.
Plus the Tyrells were also behind Renly. It was 2 for 1 and the Tyrells are quite formidable in both wealth (even compared to the Lanisters) and arms. Stannis looked like a chump compared to that.
Another option is to PM the people listed in the OP if you want to know something. I'm not listed in this year's OP but I can also help without spoiling anything.
Ninja Scooter
Member
is it bad that I found that hilarious?
Chie Satonaka
Member
Well, it's a bit deeper than that. Renly is also reasonable. Stannis considers Robb to be an enemy and would accept nothing more than surrender. Renly and Robb via Catelyn were at least able to negotiate. Were it not for Shadow Queef baby, we'd be watching a MUCH different story right now had Renly advanced on King's Landing.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
Can I just say I love the soundtrack of this show. The composer deserves more props than they are given. I'm listening to this season's soundtrack and this Mhysa track is so good. It really has that fantasy feeling, imo
Problem is both Renly and Stannis wanted Robb to bend the knee while Robb's men wanted independence for the North. He didn't have much of a choice.
Chie Satonaka
Member
This is true. But in Robb and Renly's case, it was more of a partnership. Robb would have been bros with Renly much like Ned and Robert, and the North would have had it's independence in all but name only. Stannis wanted complete submission. I think that's why Catelyn agreed to the terms. Something was better than NOTHING at all.
Honestly I don't see much difference at all between Stannis and Renly in that regard. Renly wanted the North to submit the same way they did to Robert - Stannis wanted the exact same thing (as was his right, by law).
Amibguous Cad
Member
That's not particularly honorable by Westerosi standards, putting your own selfish interests over the sanctity of your word and the safety of your house. Ned would certainly have never made such a decision, and been ashamed of Robb.
I see it as the opposite: Ned died because he was too honorable, Robb because he was not honorable enough.
unsmashable
Neo Member
Some people are just more inclined to react emotionally to these sort of things. Can't say that my reaction was any more graceful than that displayed in that video. To be honest, I even teared up rewatching it just now. I wouldn't say that I am necessarily that much more invested than the rest of the people here, but crying is just sort of a natural reaction when sad things happen.
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