Tony Redgrave
Member
Well I mean more normal as in he had *some* kind of childhood, Liquid was already under fire at 12 outside the U.S.
Liquid's upbringing always seemed more hardcore to me, he knowing about Big Boss and all as well.
Metal Gear Solid V (PS3/360/PS4/XBO/Maybe PC) - Extended 9 minute E3 trailer
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Well I mean more normal as in he had *some* kind of childhood, Liquid was already under fire at 12 outside the U.S.
Liquid's upbringing always seemed more hardcore to me, he knowing about Big Boss and all as well.
Graphics Horse
Member
Well it seems like they'll be building a new sea base in this game if that's going to be something they're going to retcon.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
How About No
Member
Or they start up their new base in Africa, which becomes the very same base Solid Snake inflitrates in MG1...
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I remember when the guy on the motorcycle in the MGS3 trailer(who made the GTA joke)
was rumored to be Gray Fox.
LOL, it's so funny now that you mention that because that guy was never in the game. Oh Kojima you master of tricks and trolls.
Callo Merlose
Banned
It depends. Some people argue that Portable Ops wasn't canon (and gray fox was in that), but it was canon to/for MGS4 because it shows what Ocelot did with the Microfilm and explains what happens with eva, sokolov, and ocelot.
I'd so love a Metal Gear "Legendary Soldier" edition or something that bundles all the canon titles together with an expanded data base.
It's nice to want things though.
Callo Merlose
Banned
I don't know if that's sarcasm, but next month, Konami's releasing the MGS Legacy Collection. It's all the games that Kojima worked on... minus Portable OPs (which he also worked on!). No updated database, though.
Yeah I know about the Legacy Collection which I'm going to pick up. The reason I said Legendary Soldier was hoping it would be in a super bundle with MGSV. But I have all this generations consoles so I'm not too upset.
Why the omission of Portable OPs? I havent paid attention to the Metal Gear series since IV came out.
Callo Merlose
Banned
Ha. Some part of me hopes Eli/Liquid is as despicable as Joffrey Lannister is. This little shit:
Acting aside, even his face screams, "loath me."
Even thought Kojima was involved, he was mainly focusing on MGS4 at the time, so it's less of a bastard and more of a step-child.
Acting aside, even his face screams, "loath me."
TUSR said:
Even thought Kojima was involved, he was mainly focusing on MGS4 at the time, so it's less of a bastard and more of a step-child.
Why would you want Eli to be despicable? MGS has never truly had "Evil" villains, rather they've always been individuals who thought they were doing what was best. A true villain always sees them self as the hero. Liquid was only seeking to prevent the dying of the Genome Soldiers and fight back against The Patriots, his methods for doing so may have been wrong but his intentions were in the right place. Solidus too sought freedom from the Patriots and in MGS2 I never saw him as the bad guy at the end, in fact I really wished I didn't have to kill him as I agreed with everything he did, for the most part.
Eli/Liquid should explore how he came to be the way he is, how his experiences as a child and Big Boss shaped him into the person he would become.
Liquid: Can't you understand what its like to know that you are garbage from the day you were born. But, I'm the one father chose.
Solid: So that's why you are so obsessed with Big Boss, some warped kind of love?
Liquid: Love?!? It's hate! He always told me I was inferior and now I'll have my revenge. *laughter* You should understand me brother, you killed our father with your own hands. You stole my chance for revenge! Now I will finish the work further began. I will surpass him! I will destroy him!
Eli/Liquid should explore how he came to be the way he is, how his experiences as a child and Big Boss shaped him into the person he would become.
Liquid: Can't you understand what its like to know that you are garbage from the day you were born. But, I'm the one father chose.
Solid: So that's why you are so obsessed with Big Boss, some warped kind of love?
Liquid: Love?!? It's hate! He always told me I was inferior and now I'll have my revenge. *laughter* You should understand me brother, you killed our father with your own hands. You stole my chance for revenge! Now I will finish the work further began. I will surpass him! I will destroy him!
Callo Merlose
Banned
Excellent post. I know Liquid threw in some noble intentions in his speech with Snake, but if you boiled it all down, you just have Liquid despising Snake for killing Big Boss before he did. Being told he was inferior in every way sure twisted his mind and yeah, I can't really fault him for that. I just loved how much hate he had in him, it was comical. That quote you posted is one of my favorite lines he's ever said. I do think Solidus was nobler, but even he was kind of fucked up in the way he raised Jack. Of all the main villains that Kojima put a concentrated effort for the player to sympathise with their cause, Liquid got the least of it.
And very perverted. Which, to me, was his saving grace.
Was anyone reminded of Eva's torn/burnt stockings when they saw Quiet's legs?Razgriz-Specter
Member
You know something this game needs to show
evil Paramedic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb1WhDdto08&feature=player_embedded
hhhhmmm the part on binoculars it's funny
BB put his hand on wall to stop himself, not to use binoculars.
well the BB's hairs seems me a fox's tail. ^^
hhhhmmm the part on binoculars it's funny
BB put his hand on wall to stop himself, not to use binoculars.
well the BB's hairs seems me a fox's tail. ^^
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Big Boss taunts Liquid to shape him, much like The Boss acted as if she was a patriot to the point where Big Boss would have to kill her, when in reality her country had taken everything from her, doing this so that Big Boss would not live on as just "another soldier with a gun" but one who would fight for himself.
That's how it played out with The Boss, and with all the "I'm already a demon" stuff, I think Big Boss will do the same. He's going to go all the way, and hopes Liquid will grow to hate him and not become like him. That or he taunts him to make him hate The Patriots, basically making Liquid his own child soldier who will resent his fate so much he would one day try to take The Patriots down.
I wonder where Solidus fits in all this, he was the most Big Boss-like of all of them:/
On another topic: It's Ocelot at the end who seems to say that Huey gave up info under torture, about Cypher working on a weapon to surpass Metal Gear. So it goes: GZ, PP hospital, Afghanistan, Diamond Dogs formed, Huey captured, interrogated, goes to Africa? Wonder why Diamond Dogs would exist before going to Africa though.
And I repeat, no one has mentioned this: wth will Big Boss do that allows him to lead Fox Hound again? It said FOX VS XOF. So won't Big Boss have to get back on good terms with The Patriots to be allowed to lead FOX, or at least attempt to pretend that he is turning his back on his private army to do so? Kind of complicated.
That's how it played out with The Boss, and with all the "I'm already a demon" stuff, I think Big Boss will do the same. He's going to go all the way, and hopes Liquid will grow to hate him and not become like him. That or he taunts him to make him hate The Patriots, basically making Liquid his own child soldier who will resent his fate so much he would one day try to take The Patriots down.
I wonder where Solidus fits in all this, he was the most Big Boss-like of all of them:/
On another topic: It's Ocelot at the end who seems to say that Huey gave up info under torture, about Cypher working on a weapon to surpass Metal Gear. So it goes: GZ, PP hospital, Afghanistan, Diamond Dogs formed, Huey captured, interrogated, goes to Africa? Wonder why Diamond Dogs would exist before going to Africa though.
And I repeat, no one has mentioned this: wth will Big Boss do that allows him to lead Fox Hound again? It said FOX VS XOF. So won't Big Boss have to get back on good terms with The Patriots to be allowed to lead FOX, or at least attempt to pretend that he is turning his back on his private army to do so? Kind of complicated.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I thought he was the least.
Big Boss staged a revolution and began a war with Zero. Liquid staged a revolution and tried to create a new Outer Heaven. Solidus staged a revolution and tried to hunt down the Patriots. Liquid's doppelganger staged a revolution and tried to destroy the Patriot AIs in an Outer Haven.
Solid followed orders (unknowingly in MGS2) and tried to live a normal life.
Just saw the trailer. Game looks absolutely stunning - Can't wait to get my hands on it.
PC version will be amazing, current-gen? Not so much. I'll double dip on both gens though.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
This part reminded me how amazing a new Hind/Harrier fight could be.
Rogue Agent
Banned
I would love this. I really want to see Cipher main guys to show that crazy side. We've heard about it, but it'd be nice to see. I would really love this.
Just saw the trailer. Game looks absolutely stunning - Can't wait to get my hands on it.
and it's not even the games final form.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Solidus raised child soldiers, had an eye-patch, and actually knew about The Patriots and wanted to take them down. Liquid was just angry and wanted to surpass BB. Solidus wanted to carry on Big Boss' legacy. He was definitely the only one we could consider the true heir to Big Boss. The thing is, it's unclear what Big Boss' intentions were, or at least less clear with every new game.
edit: And yeah I agree at this point it's time to see Zero again.
It's weird how in the new trailer, it looks like it's Miller who becomes the bad guy. Yet he later on joins Foxhound too, and even past the events of MG1 helps Snake defeat Big Boss. What could make Miller consider BB a monster? Outer Heaven sounds no different than what Miller is proposing to BB in this one.
Maybe MG1 and MG2 will be thrown away completely.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
really needs to be, for a character supposedly that bad and part of something that big to be killed off screen.
we at least need to see why.
We saw the deaths of all the other Patriots
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Is Cipher an organization, or is it... just Zero?
don't recall it being mentioned specifically,
I think all we know is that it means Zero.
I need to replay Peace Walker soon.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Exactly. It'd be really nice. It'd be cool to see Para-Medic become like a mad doctor, like Zero becoming like a Bond villain, and Ocelot acting being a super multiple -agent badass ultra cowboy lol.
It is an organization, for sure. Based on what Zero said in MGS4(I KNOW) he had an established world-wide thing at this point. He could be calling himself Cipher and be in the center of the Patriots.Is Cipher an organization, or is it... just Zero?
Maybe they had a meeting to find a more catchy name.
matrix-cat
Member
If you look carefully in the new trailer, Big Boss already has the Diamond Dogs logo on his left shoulder during the mission to rescue Kaz.
Is Cipher an organization, or is it... just Zero?
I think it's an organization run by Zero. Para Medic and Sigint are on his side at this point, and I believe he has at least half the Philosopher's Legacy, if not all of it (my Portable Ops memories are fuzzy
). It's basically the early form of The Patriots.blindrocket
Member
Wasn't Zero simply talking about the Patriots in MGS4? I don't even think Cipher as a concept existed when that was written. It's clearly being made up as it goes along.
I think it's an organization run by Zero. Para Medic and Sigint are on his side at this point, and I believe he has at least half the Philosopher's Legacy, if not all of it (my Portable Ops memories are fuzzy
The Patriots already exist. Big Boss was a part of them. He left. Cipher is something slightly different. Otherwise they would just say... Patriots.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Oh I'm sure, it is made up - the name. But Paz at the end pretty much confirms that Cipher is Zero. They're still green, in the sense that their new system isn't in place yet, so they need someone to be their deterrent - someone like MSF.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
Is Cipher an organization, or is it... just Zero?
Well, at the point of Les Enfants Terribles project it's an established trifecta with Zero/Paramedic/Sigint, each one pulling the strings on their respective fields of interest.
But yeah, Cipher are the Patriots on Peace Walker
Rogue Agent
Banned
That's a much better way to explain it - pretty cool.
matrix-cat
Member
That's Eva's speech in MGS4, right? Obviously Kojima hadn't had the idea for Cipher yet, but I think the intent of that speech was that the earliest form of The Patriots was basically just the events of MGS3 (and immediately following them), when BB, Ocelot, Eva, Sigint, Para Medic and Cipher were all buddies getting into crazy adventures. It seems as though the ideological split between Big Boss and Zero has already happened by Peace Walker.
PW is probably the most disappointing game in the series for me because it just skips over such an interesting point in the series' timeline. Almost no mention of the Les Enfants Terribles project, nothing between Big Boss and Zero, no appearance from Ocelot or Eva or any recurring characters, except the awful Huey who I really wanted to forget. Big Boss being best buds with Otacon's Dad, who looks and sounds and acts exactly like Otacon in every way is Metal Gear's Darth-Vader-made-C-3PO point.
I'm really hoping Zero will actually make an appearance in MGSV.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's really kinda stupid that Kojima is running out of actual antagonist organizations, but he doesn't want to use the same names over and over, so he just makes up new names to refer to the same organization/persons. A huuuuuge sign of overwriting.
We also now have Diamond Dogs instead of Outer Heaven but still kinda Outer Heaven.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
It's really kinda stupid that Kojima is running out of actual antagonist organizations, but he doesn't want to use the same names over and over, so he just makes up new names to refer to the same organization/persons. A huuuuuge sign of overwriting.
Eh... is not exactly uncommon in a cold war setting.
B-b-but he keeps thinking of new puns!It's really kinda stupid that Kojima is running out of actual antagonist organizations, but he doesn't want to use the same names over and over, so he just makes up new names to refer to the same organization/persons. A huuuuuge sign of overwriting.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I just took it to mean Diamond Dogs as the squad/personnel and Outer Heaven as the place and organization.
The actual Outer Heaven is still 11 years away from the events of Phantom Pain so the Diamond Dogs thing might also be isolated to this one game in specific reference to the diamond miners Big Boss gets to in Africa. He probably uses the diamonds to fund Outer Heaven.
I would be fine with them being altered to be one full story. Like Outer Heaven would be IN Zanzibar and all the characters from MG and MG2 would be in that one incident. Do we REALLY want two Metal Gear games after Phantom Pain? Or some type of weird thing where the game is split into two? This is of course assuming they'll be remade.
autobzooty
Member
not sure if this has been discussed yet but i figured i'd weigh in.
i'm in the camp of people who believe that the guy who "wakes up" from a coma is not big boss. when big boss went into a coma, he didn't have the shrapnel in his skull, but you can clearly see a bump underneath the bandages of the guy running around in the hospital demo right where the shrapnel should be (right side of his forehead). i don't know about all the other crazy conspiracies, but this was enough to make me a believer.
^Big Boss going into a coma w/ no horn.
^some other dude with a horn.
As for David Hayter, all I'll say is that the Big Boss (sans horn) has never spoken in english in any trailer, and when he spoke in japanese, he had the same voice he always had. i know kojima gave his reasons why the japanese voice was kept the same, but i'm gonna go ahead and call chemtrails on that shit.
i'm in the camp of people who believe that the guy who "wakes up" from a coma is not big boss. when big boss went into a coma, he didn't have the shrapnel in his skull, but you can clearly see a bump underneath the bandages of the guy running around in the hospital demo right where the shrapnel should be (right side of his forehead). i don't know about all the other crazy conspiracies, but this was enough to make me a believer.
^Big Boss going into a coma w/ no horn.
^some other dude with a horn.
As for David Hayter, all I'll say is that the Big Boss (sans horn) has never spoken in english in any trailer, and when he spoke in japanese, he had the same voice he always had. i know kojima gave his reasons why the japanese voice was kept the same, but i'm gonna go ahead and call chemtrails on that shit.