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[Clydefrog]

My roommate is a CA teacher and she has been drowning in free tablets for at least a year now. No ipads though!

 

[Tuck]

What an unnecessary expense. I remain unconvinced that tablets are in any way necessary for schools. They won't magically fix/improve your education system.

 

[Ferrio]

What an unnecessary expense. I remain unconvinced that tablets are in any way necessary for schools. They won't magically fix/improve your education system.

They might improve the experience in the classroom though.

Fixing the education system is a lot more complex than throwing anything at it, be it money, technology or just more teachers.

 

[FutureZombie]

I see an iPad as a passive device that is intended to largely replace what the teacher should be doing. I'd rather improve the teacher, as that is a proven method that actually works. That is what they do in the Nordic countries and study after study shows this.

Comparing Nordic countries to the US is comparing apples and oranges. Too many variables.

Besides there are many uses for iPads in the special ed realm. But even in the general ed setting they are great during group rotations. They can even be used as a reward for good behavior. The possibilities are endless.


But if we're talking about "fixing" the education system. The system isn't the issue. The real issue lies with the family and the number of kids being raised by one parent. No amount of teachers or money is going to fix that. So let's just make the best of what we are able to control.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Take the iPad money and use it for performance based bonuses, just like every other industry.

So the problem isn't better teachers, it's that the ones that are out there now don't work hard enough?

yes. if it were my choice, that is what I would do. Teachers need to be more qualified and in more abundance in classrooms. I have no idea where these Ipads are going, but they will probably not be ending up in low income districts. So, this Apple deal is likely benefiting those who are already receiving good education anyway. Of course they will still find some poor kids to highlight this project.

More qualified how? And how is having more of them going to keep kids engaged and get the right tools in their hand to learn? I'm just not following.

They might improve the experience in the classroom though.

Fixing the education system is a lot more complex than throwing anything at it, be it money, technology or just more teachers.

This. I'm not following the logic that just because things are bad, we have to either revamp the system or do nothing at all. Trying something that might improve things a little seems to be completely off the table.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Comparing Nordic countries to the US is comparing apples and oranges. Too many variables.

Besides there are many uses for iPads in the special ed realm. But even in the general ed setting they are great during group rotations. They can even be used as a reward for good behavior. The possibilities are endless.

I could see adding tablets only after there is a strong programming curriculum starting at the elementary school level. Technology money should be spent on that first and foremost. I would have to see a lot of studies and scientific evidence before I would stop getting pissed at the unnecessary expense of tablets.

 

[Rokam]

A school around here got iPads for their students... didn't buy them for the teachers. Told the teachers if they want to know how the applications and such work they can buy their own iPad. So basically they forced them into buying one since the majority of the students' work has to be done through it.

 

[Hari Seldon]

So the problem isn't better teachers, it's that the ones that are out there now don't work hard enough?

Probably a strong mix of both. Higher pay would lead to teaching being a desirable career, and not just an option for the STEM dropouts. (This is the case in Nordic countries) Also the truly dedicated teachers would have an incentive to stay dedicated, and not get jaded over the years.

 

[FutureZombie]

Probably a strong mix of both. Higher pay would lead to teaching being a desirable career, and not just an option for the STEM dropouts. (This is the case in Nordic countries) Also the truly dedicated teachers would have an incentive to stay dedicated, and not get jaded over the years.

People talk about the "decline" of the education system. Well why would teachers be getting worse or lazier? That is simply not what has happened. Families have been shattered and too many kids are growing up without a dad. That is the reason for the decline in education, if there even is one at all.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Probably a strong mix of both. Higher pay would lead to teaching being a desirable career, and not just an option for the STEM dropouts. (This is the case in Nordic countries) Also the truly dedicated teachers would have an incentive to stay dedicated, and not get jaded over the years.

LOL!

You really need to talk to a teacher sometime if you actually think that the pay is what makes them jaded.

I'm not arguing that paying teachers more isn't better, but you really show that you don't have any grasp of what the root problem is considering that you want to pay teachers more and then say "hey, teach these kids with indifferent parents using tools that are way more outdated than what they use at home unless you're also teaching them Python" and expect results.

 

[bangai-o]

More qualified how? And how is having more of them going to keep kids engaged and get the right tools in their hand to learn? I'm just not following.

fully certified and in-field experience with content knowledge and deeper understanding of how multiculturalism effects the classroom. Having more teachers available means a chance to be able to focus on children at an individual level and give proper assessments.

edit

looks like xbox killed gaf. sorry if this ends up being a repost.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

fully certified and in-field experience with content knowledge and deeper understanding of how multiculturalism effects the classroom. Having more teachers available means a chance to be able to focus on children at an individual level and give proper assessments.

edit

looks like xbox killed gaf. sorry if this ends up being a repost.

All teachers have degrees and student teach in the field before they get those degrees. It just sounds like you're reading out of a brochure.

But if I give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you meant that there should be stricter guidelines to getting a teaching degree and to get certified, in the meantime, while we're retooling our higher education systems as it pertains to certifying teachers, we shouldn't drop some money on things like iPads to keep the kids who are there in school right now a little more engaged?

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

This is from a bond measure that was passed a few years ago to update school technology.

The bigger concern is that the board administrators, back before the bond even passes, was working with Apple trying to get them the contract.

 

[maliedoo]

Do you really think these iPads will not be built with educational apps and catered to the school needs

Do you really think kids can DL Fruit Ninja and Angry Birds just to fuck around

It will be used as a tool, maybe help kids who get bored reading textbooks verbatim, I sure as hell did, Please "GRX" read the 4th paragraph aloud for the class... "FUCK THAT NOISE"

Interactivity can play a fundamental role and help educate the child better

Maybe before you go RAWR $600 iPads being bought just because their iPads, look deeper

Hell you can see on many news stories how iPads have helped kids with Autism and their social anxiety and the iPad be their helpful guide
Just transfer that to regular kids, it should pay off

It's not like the iPads are being given away free to students to take home and when the graduate they get to keep them
They will be a classroom tool, I rather have videos/interact with the subject, rather than the teacher yap away at the same ol' bullshit written in the book but make it sound like they know what they are talking about

Completely true, but this could have been done with $200-$300 Tablets, not $500 iPads.

 

[bangai-o]

All teachers have degrees and student teach in the field before they get those degrees. It just sounds like you're reading out of a brochure.

But if I give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you meant that there should be stricter guidelines to getting a teaching degree and to get certified, in the meantime, while we're retooling our higher education systems as it pertains to certifying teachers, we shouldn't drop some money on things like iPads to keep the kids who are there in school right now a little more engaged?

they have degrees. but that that does not mean they are fully certified. We often hear of teachers being racist, hooking up with students, being put on probation for some reason, we have students in low income areas who are not being assessed properly based on many reasons that the teachers do not know how to identify because they are not properly trained to recognize it. There are not enough black teachers in teaching, not enough Spanish speaking teachers etc. Opportunity is disproportionate, and it links back to not enough qualified teachers creating higher success rates. There is also the fact that while they have degrees, they received their licensures (to teach) by alternative certification.

...while we're retooling our higher education systems as it pertains to certifying teachers, we shouldn't drop some money on things like iPads to keep the kids who are there in school right now a little more engaged?

technology is very important. But the arguments of budget is also important. I just feel that there are cheaper operating systems and devices.

 

[OldAsUrSock]

Completely true, but this could have been done with $200-$300 Tablets, not $500 iPads.

Not to mention there are better $300 tablets than iPads.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Completely true, but this could have been done with $200-$300 Tablets, not $500 iPads.

Ok, please show me the non-iPad tablet with Apple's suite of educational software.

they have degrees. but that that does not mean they are fully certified. We often hear of teachers being racist, hooking up with students, being put on probation for some reason, we have students in low income areas who are not being assessed properly based on many reasons that the teachers do not know how to identify because they are not properly trained to recognize it. There are not enough black teachers in teaching, not enough Spanish speaking teachers etc. Opportunity is disproportionate, and it links back to not enough qualified teachers creating higher success rates. There is also the fact that while they have degrees, they received their licensures (to teach) by alternative certification.

Ok, so basically "things are bad sometimes."

There are shitty people in every profession and you're never going to stop that and "things are bad sometimes" is not a reason to to try and make them slightly better right now.

 

[numble]

What? This is not true at all. Income taxes are used for education in California. In fact Proposition 30 passed just last year that increased income taxes for education. Education accounts for almost half of the general fund.

Are you in Texas?

As long as you're trying to be unusually specific about how this is funded, you are completely wrong.

This program is being paid for by local measures, Measure R and Measure Y, both measures were neighborhood bond measures that are paid for by increases in local property taxes.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Where do you guys come up with this crap about usability and intuitiveness. These tablets are meant to use a single education app, it's like arguing that Math Blaster on Windows was worse than Mac.

Fuck fanboy angle, I'm talking about teaching angle.

What the hell are you gonna teach them on iPads? How to use the apps that spoon feeds you some pre-dumped information? They can already do that shit without a teacher.

How about teaching them things like how to take proper notes, how to apply critical thing to a subject matter that are fed to you etc.?

For basic things like puzzles and spelling they can be useful, but in that case it's more for letting the kid teach themselves and doesn't really add anything above second grade level. A 10" inch tablet is more for reading textbooks and I think generally that's a bad way to learn anything in the K-12 level of schooling. For the same price, they could have had 2-3 7" inch tablets which would be easier for little kids to handle.

 

[Lasthope106]

An overpriced tablet does not a better student make.

There isn't a single thing that I can see requiring a tablet, let alone an iPad, for education. Corporate America is still a desktop dominated land. It would be a hell of a lot more beneficial to teach a kid how to use a spreadsheet program than letting them install and play angry birds on iPads.

 

[smr00]

Out of all the bullshit our tax dollars go towards this is the tipping point? This is the thing that makes you mad? Helping kids? ipads are easy to use, easier then most shitty droid tablets.

 

[bangai-o]

For basic things like puzzles and spelling they can be useful, but in that case it's more for letting the kid teach themselves and doesn't really add anything above second grade level. A 10" inch tablet is more for reading textbooks and I think generally that's a bad way to learn anything in the K-12 level of schooling. For the same price, they could have had 2-3 7" inch tablets which would be easier for little kids to handle.

also regular books. Learning to read with physical books is important for children in motor function (going to the bookshelf and picking a book, turning pages). Same goes for physical puzzles and various toys.

This whole Apple deal and any Microsoft deal at other schools just seems to me like corporate financial gain through the classrooms just like how Sodexo and other food corporations gain from school contracts.

 

[mcfrank]

I could see adding tablets only after there is a strong programming curriculum starting at the elementary school level. Technology money should be spent on that first and foremost. I would have to see a lot of studies and scientific evidence before I would stop getting pissed at the unnecessary expense of tablets.

I don't know how many times this has to be said, they are not teaching them how to use the iPad, they are using to help with teaching math, science, history, reading, geography, etc etc.

 

[Speevy]

I suggest you read about one of my friends from Columbus, GA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzSNdxsfk0Q

 

[numble]

Where do you guys come up with this crap about usability and intuitiveness. These tablets are meant to use a single education app, it's like arguing that Math Blaster on Windows was worse than Mac.

For basic things like puzzles and spelling they can be useful, but in that case it's more for letting the kid teach themselves and doesn't really add anything above second grade level. A 10" inch tablet is more for reading textbooks and I think generally that's a bad way to learn anything in the K-12 level of schooling. For the same price, they could have had 2-3 7" inch tablets which would be easier for little kids to handle.

I don't think they're meant for a single app. Look at the school administrators here that deploy iPads in their schools, they talk about the third party apps.

 

[Necromanti]

Sometimes, I'm amazed at the resources that some (of the better) American public schools offer their students. The international private school I went to didn't offer shit in comparison.

 

[Lasthope106]

I don't know how many times this has to be said, they are not teaching them how to use the iPad, they are using to help with teaching match, science, history, reading, geography, etc etc.

What's wrong with the way that it has been done for thousands of years?

Did Galileo have an iPad? What about Einstein and Feynman? Those guys had to number crunch and do science the old fashion way. Call me old fashion, but I still value the feeling of holding a book in my hands and flipping to the pages to learn about things. Kids nowadays take for granted how much search engines have made it easier for society. Everyone should IMO experience what it was like to go to the library and search through cards to find the books you wanted to research. Only then would you truly appreciate the wealth of information that is at your fingertips every time you open wikipedia.

By the same token, programming is not taught to newcomers by having them use the most complicated IDEs first. You first show them how to code in a simple text editor and compile and run from the command line. This is analogue to teaching kids with fancy iPads (don't care whether Android or Mac). Teach solid fundamentals first, and then build on top of those. Fundamentals concepts on every field of human knowledge don't require computers or tablets - pen and paper is all you need. Gahhhh!

And I'm out!

 

[bangai-o]

I suggest you read about one of my friends from Columbus, GA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzSNdxsfk0Q

the argument isnt that technology isnt important. The argument is that Ipads are expensive and that other hardware and sometimes free software can accomplish the same goals.

 

[freenudemacusers]

I'm pretty sure galileo and einstein would have loved using a modern computer.

 

[mcfrank]

What's wrong with the way that it has been done for thousands of years?

Did Galileo have an iPad? What about Einstein and Feynman? Those guys had to number crunch and do science the old fashion way. Call me old fashion, but I still value the feeling of holding a book in my hands and flipping to the pages to learn about things. Kids nowadays take for granted how much search engines have made it easier for society. Everyone should IMO experience what it was like to go to the library and search through cards to find the books you wanted to research. Only then would you truly appreciate the wealth of information that is at your fingertips every time you open wikipedia.

By the same token, programming is not taught to newcomers by having them use the most complicated IDEs first. You first show them how to code in a simple text editor and compile and run from the command line. This is analogue to teaching kids with fancy iPads (don't care whether Android or Mac). Teach solid fundamentals first, and then build on top of those. Fundamentals concepts on every field of human knowledge don't require computers or tablets - pen and paper is all you need. Gahhhh!

And I'm out!

 

[Prez]

What a damn waste. Interactive whiteboards would be a much better and more efficient investment.

 

[The Technomancer]

What's wrong with the way that it has been done for thousands of years?

Did Galileo have an iPad? What about Einstein and Feynman? Those guys had to number crunch and do science the old fashion way. Call me old fashion, but I still value the feeling of holding a book in my hands and flipping to the pages to learn about things. Kids nowadays take for granted how much search engines have made it easier for society. Everyone should IMO experience what it was like to go to the library and search through cards to find the books you wanted to research. Only then would you truly appreciate the wealth of information that is at your fingertips every time you open wikipedia.

Yeah, and what's with these mass printed textbooks, huh!? Back in the days of the Greeks you had to track down the original scroll or one of its few transcriptions if you wanted to read the text. How do you think Plato found the works he based his off of? It was more visceral, you had to take months or years to find what you wanted and it let you reflect on the material. We don't need any goddamn printing presses in our education system.

Everyone, IMO, should experience what its like to hear about a famous text through hearsay for years before finally finding one of the few intact copies.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

I'm pretty sure galileo and einstein would have loved using a modern computer.

They would have loved a ball point pen. Arguments from antiquity are the worst.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

What's wrong with the way that it has been done for thousands of years?

Did Galileo have an iPad? What about Einstein and Feynman? Those guys had to number crunch and do science the old fashion way. Call me old fashion, but I still value the feeling of holding a book in my hands and flipping to the pages to learn about things. Kids nowadays take for granted how much search engines have made it easier for society. Everyone should IMO experience what it was like to go to the library and search through cards to find the books you wanted to research. Only then would you truly appreciate the wealth of information that is at your fingertips every time you open wikipedia.

By the same token, programming is not taught to newcomers by having them use the most complicated IDEs first. You first show them how to code in a simple text editor and compile and run from the command line. This is analogue to teaching kids with fancy iPads (don't care whether Android or Mac). Teach solid fundamentals first, and then build on top of those. Fundamentals concepts on every field of human knowledge don't require computers or tablets - pen and paper is all you need. Gahhhh!

And I'm out!

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. There's a good reason why we use computers and the Internet, grandpa. There's no reason to make learning harder because that's how you did it in the old days.

 

[Maximus.]

Yea how dare an education system try to implement new technology into the classroom for new learning opportunities! Keep it the same so more can be spent on war and shit!

 

[KevinRo]

Makes me sick.

Don't mind the fact that it could get dropped.

What could a damn small screen with touch interaction have over learning from a PC???

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Makes me sick.

Don't mind the fact that it could get dropped.

"Shit! Gary, did you know iPads can get dropped?" "Fuck, we'd better return all of them."

What could a damn small screen with touch interaction have over learning from a PC???

 

[numble]

Makes me sick.

Don't mind the fact that it could get dropped.

What could a damn small screen with touch interaction have over learning from a PC???

According to this, Apple has agreed to replace iPads that are stolen or broken.

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_23489311/lausd-spending-30-million-buy-30-000-ipads

...

District officials said they've resolved questions about whether students can take the iPads home -- they can -- and that Apple will have to provide replacements for iPads that are lost, stolen or broken. The devices will also have a three-year warranty.

Affiliated charter schools and charters that are co-located on LAUSD campuses will also be part of the iPad purchase.

LAUSD received more than a dozen proposals for the lucrative contract, and narrowed the field to three finalists -- Apple and Arey Jones, which submitted separate plans using Dell and HP tablets. A team of 30 students, teachers and technical experts tested the devices, and Hovatter said Apple scored better than the computers that ran on a Microsoft operating system.

...

 

[jon bones]

What's wrong with the way that it has been done for thousands of years?

Did Galileo have an iPad? What about Einstein and Feynman? Those guys had to number crunch and do science the old fashion way. Call me old fashion, but I still value the feeling of holding a book in my hands and flipping to the pages to learn about things. Kids nowadays take for granted how much search engines have made it easier for society. Everyone should IMO experience what it was like to go to the library and search through cards to find the books you wanted to research. Only then would you truly appreciate the wealth of information that is at your fingertips every time you open wikipedia.

By the same token, programming is not taught to newcomers by having them use the most complicated IDEs first. You first show them how to code in a simple text editor and compile and run from the command line. This is analogue to teaching kids with fancy iPads (don't care whether Android or Mac). Teach solid fundamentals first, and then build on top of those. Fundamentals concepts on every field of human knowledge don't require computers or tablets - pen and paper is all you need. Gahhhh!

And I'm out!

I'm against using tax payer money for this, but this is really bad logic at work here.

You should think about how people leverage technology to improve processes (including education) and circle back to the thread.

 

[Polari]

It's daft, really, but lack of centralisation in the US education system contributes to these kind of things. Imagine what could be achieved if this was implemented at a national level. Volume discounts would mean tablets could be around ~$100 each, and the government could contract the development of learning software for the tablets and make it freely available for every student.

Edit: Chromebooks and a national online learning platform accessible through any web browser would be better though.

 

[KevinRo]

"Shit! Gary, did you know iPads can get dropped?" "Fuck, we'd better return all of them."

Forgetting that it will be replaced, the fact that it has no advantages over a PC has not been explained.

 

[jon bones]

It's daft, really, but lack of centralisation in the US education system contributes to these kind of things. Imagine what could be achieved if this was implemented at a national level. Volume discounts would mean tablets could be around ~$100 each, and the government could contract the development of learning software for the tablets and make it freely available for every student.

You're right but good luck getting the right's base to go along with this.

"The UN is trying to invade you child's school! More at 11" - Fox News

 

[freenudemacusers]

Forgetting that it will be replaced, the fact that it has no advantages over a PC has not been explained.

it's pretty hard to put a desktop PC on table with one hand.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Forgetting that it will be replaced, the fact that it has no advantages over a PC has not been explained.

Did you just join us from 2010?

 

[Prez]

Yea how dare an education system try to implement new technology into the classroom for new learning opportunities! Keep it the same so more can be spent on war and shit!

I don't believe giving every student a $600 iPad is the best way to implement new technology. Interactive whiteboards seem like a better technology to invest in and it's much more cost effective because each one is bound to a classroom instead of a single student and it can be used for 10-20 years.

 

[Rentahamster]

They only got 31,000 iPads? Is this for computer class only or something? I wonder how they'll utilize them....

Going with more, cheaper, tablets might have been better so that they don't have a shortage.

Going by their track record, it's probably a waste of money. Someone, somewhere, knows how to effectively and efficiently use tablets for educational purposes with a good cost/benefit. I doubt that person works for the LA district, though

 

[jon bones]

I don't believe giving every student a $600 iPad is the best way to implement new technology. Interactive whiteboards seems like a better technology to invest in and it's much more cost effective because each one is bound to a classroom instead of a single student and it can be used for 10-20 years.

Finally, someone who gets it.

Interactive "smart" boards and reducing classroom sizes are far more effective than throwing iPads at kids.

Use that money to teach teachers how to effectively use smartboards and you will help far, far more kids.

 

[mcfrank]

Finally, someone who gets it.

Interactive "smart" boards and reducing classroom sizes are far more effective than throwing iPads at kids.

Use that money to teach teachers how to effectively use smartboards and you will help far, far more kids.

I work in Academic Technology at a University. We have a bunch of smart boards and a bunch of iPads. Trust me when I tell you, the iPads are used 100x (not exaggerating) more frequently and effectively than the smartboards.

 

[Lasthope106]

I'm against using tax payer money for this, but this is really bad logic at work here.

You should think about how people leverage technology to improve processes (including education) and circle back to the thread.

I don't see it that way. The newer generations know less about technology than previous generations. Sure, children nowadays grow using cellphones and tablets, but they have no knowledge of how things work. Maybe it was because when I was growing up shit didn't work all the time that you were forced to figure things out. In today's world technology is so accessible that people take it for granted.

I'm not against incorporating technology into the classroom, and maybe my previous post didn't get the point I was trying to make across. All I'm saying is that I think this is a bad way to go about fixing education problems. The small percentage of schools that use technology effectively like that guy in New York who used Portal and Minecraft to aid his teaching are "great" schools with outstanding records of academic achievement.

I don't really know what GAF members picture when they think about schools in America, probably something closer to the schools they attended. When I think of schools in LA I think of "dropout" factories who have troubles getting kids to grade level proficiency in math, science and english. To me, buying a luxury item like an iPad and trying to use it as a cool way to tell the kids "come to school because you get to play with iPads" is the wrong approach. But what the hell do I know? I have just taught and tutor math and science at the high school and college level. Surely GAF knows more than I do.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

The point is to create a legible, flowing fast handwriting style. It is demonstrably faster (when done right) than individual characters or print styles.

Of course, keyboards would make things even faster and more legible. But I think teaching basics like this still has value, even if it's just brain discipline - like folding sheets in the army.

I'd rather kids spend that time learning grammar or some shit. Handwriting is totally worthless.