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[Aghiliz]

I've never tried Project M, I should play it.

My neither all i played was brawl plus lol :<

 

[Troubled Bat]

What is Brawl Plus, and Brawl Minus like?

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Being serious for a second, Mewtwo is actually quite a popular character. They wouldn't introduce him to the anime again, star him in a new Movie as one of the main characters with a new form if he wasn't.

He also almost won the most popular Pokemon contest a few months (I think a year back).

Not only that, but he's been getting tons of tins along with Rayquaza in the TCG lately.

He won an IGN poll, which doesn't really have much credibility ;P

OG Mew won the official Pokémon Power Bracket last year though, with Rayquaza coming in a distant second. Newtwo's probably going to be a returning vet, but I doubt it'll be the sole representative of X&Y considering he's still a Gen I 'mon at his core.

I'm still rooting for Scrafty though, and made a moveset for it out of boredom:

B: Crunch (Scrafty bites forward similar to Wario's neutral B, except enemies struck fly back instead of getting munched. Also breaks shields to reflect its Defense-lowering properties.)

Forward B: Head Smash (Scrafty lunges forward head-first, delivering a devastating headbutt to any foes in its path. Does monstrous damage (Falcon Punch-proportionate) upon a hit, but also deals some damage to the player as well).

Down B: Focus Punch (Gets stronger the longer the buttons are held down and then unleashes a fast-moving rush punch when they are released. Very strong, but a single hit interrupts the charge.)

Up B: Hi-Jump Kick (Scrafty leaps into the air with a rising knee, and then dive-kicks back to earth on an angle. Juxtaposes Head Smash in that it does damage to the player upon miss rather than upon hit).

Final Smash: Scrafty Tactics (Opponents in Scrafty's line of sight are paralyzed by Glare before being pulverized by a combination of kicks and punches culminating in a superpowered Head Smash.)

Scrafty would be a high-risk, high-reward character requiring careful positioning and planning, with moves that actively punish spamming.

Spoiler

In other words, low-tier.

 

[Revven]

What is Brawl Plus, and Brawl Minus like?

B+ was originally an attempt to take a stab at implementing Melee-like mechanics to Brawl. But it generally failed because of the limitations of modding when it initially started so its goals shifted to just "an improved Brawl with slight inspiration from Melee". Taking cues for some of the characters from Melee like Falcon's Knee being strong and having less hitlag (the moment the character freezes while being hit) to something like increasing the hitstun (at the time it was thought hitstun was "low" in Brawl but it was in fact not that at all; it was the fact that Sakurai enabled players to cancel hitstun with the air dodge and attacks earlier than in the previous titles). It started with monthly releases and lots of the discussion took place on an IRC channel. It had a dedicated following for quite some time for a small portion of the community and most Brawl/Melee players were very skeptical of the mod.

Then it progressed from monthly releases to "nightly builds" which wound up having a thousand different versions being released... (because a new release was put out every day) all in the name of trying to "balance" the game and also add mechanics to it. It was really a mess and by the time all of that was reigned in, the original team involved broke off and disappeared for awhile; disagreeing with the direction the other half of the team wanted to take the mod in.

Finally, the "new" team set out to release something "final", which I think was... version 6.0 or something. In this version, stage boundaries across the board were dramatically decreased to try and offset this thought that "matches were taking too long" compared to Melee. Suffice to say, this "fix" hurt the mod more than it helped, eventually leading to its quiet death. No support after that was released and shortly after that time, much of the original team behind B+ were working behind closed doors to attempt to make a move set of Melee Falco... which born out of that was the start of Project M in January of 2010.

To sum up, I wouldn't bother trying Brawl+ unless you just want to see what it's like. It's a haphazard mess of attempts to balance characters around mechanics that are half finished or half baked due to the limitations of modding Brawl in 2008-2009.

Brawl Minus is an attempt to make everyone broken ala Marvel while retaining much of Brawl's physics with quirky/gimmicky character designs and super high hitstun. It's a fun diversion if you want something new for Brawl that's meant to be for pure fun but support from the team behind it has seemingly... died. Most would chalk it up to the fact that Project M has stolen its spotlight because of the accomplishments P:M alone has achieved. But I would chalk it up to the fact that the mod lost its appeal due to the fact that the team actually tried to "balance" their intentionally broken-made cast of characters. It's really quite amusing and awfully confusing, but there you go. Now it rests where B+ does, in obscurity or a very niche amount of people actually still play it. It's marginally better if only because it was made during the more up-to-date modding era of Brawl but... like I said, it lost its appeal because the team started to take it in a direction it shouldn't have gone in.

But feel free to try either one out. They're both novel and interesting regardless (especially Brawl Minus). Some of the things Minus does is really interesting, such as giving Fox a Hybrid Air Dodge, so he can actually waveshine but also take advantage of the Brawl air dodge's benefits (he's the ONLY character with this ability in the game, too, no other char has a hybrid air dodge).

Minus is sort of a mishmash of a bunch of ideas but it's really neat how some of it comes together; especially characters like Bowser, Wolf, Sheik, Mario, etc.

Though that could have changed, I stopped messing with it really early on. So they could have removed it but I doubt it since the idea was to port Melee Fox to Brawl Minus and make him even more broken or something... at least I think so? Eh, I don't know.

So, there's your history lesson, hope you enjoyed.

 

[IntelliHeath]

What is Brawl Plus, and Brawl Minus like?

I'm trying to remember which one was so broken. I love to spammed Ice Missile (Samus) and element arrows (Link)

Edited: It's definitely Brawl Minus. I love Brawl Minus (specific version) until thy changed to new version which I ditched. I'm going to keep old brawl minus version for fun time.

 

[Hieberrr]

I'm trying to remember which one was so broken. I love to spammed Ice Missile (Samus) and element arrows (Link)

Edited: IT's definitely Brawl Minus. I love Brawl Minus (specific version) until thy changed to new version which I ditched. I'm going to keep old brawl minus version for fun time.

According to their site, minus was the broken one.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

It has its own thread here buuuuut the OP doesn't have instructions on how to use it via Dolphin. Though I think there's some youtube tutorials on using P:M via Dolphin you can find very easily.

(I should really, really bug Anth0ny to update the OP of that thread it's so outdated in so many ways)

Thanks!

 

[Letterbomb]

Now that E3 has come and gone, here is my educated prediction for the roster. None of the new additions are necessarily hopefuls but characters I truly believe will be added--save for Hades, who I just really want in despite his chances. Toon Link, Ike, Snake, Falco, Lucas, and Lucario have been cut from my list. Zelda, Mewtwo, and Samus have alternate forms. I'm predicting Diddy Kong and Chrom may or may not be paired with Dixie and Lucina, respectively. As for Tingle: I really just didn't know who else to put in for the new Zelda representative. I hate the idea of toon clones, and the franchise really has been appropriately represented with just the iconic three. I guess he's in just for kicks and giggles.

EDIT: People are calling me out on Flint, and I agree with them. Not sure who else to have replaced with Lucas, if she should be replaced at all.

Also, the way I ordered them in the selection screen seems about right. Have you guys noticed that Sakurai puts Kirby as close to the dead center as possible in each game? See for yourselves:

http://hyrulecentral.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/SSBN64-Character.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...M6kR-7SQ7W6LnjGwnHE60mjSv4N6NJloRF85rZBVRXYw4
http://86bb71d19d3bcb79effc-d9e6924...per-smash-bros-brawl-character-roster-big.jpg

 

[Ryce]

Cutting Lucas for Flint is what you "truly believe" will happen?

 

[IntelliHeath]

Now that E3 has come and gone, here is my educated prediction for the roster. None of the new additions are necessarily hopefuls but characters I truly believe will be added--save for Hades, who I just really want in despite his chances. Toon Link, Ike, Snake, Falco, Lucas, and Lucario have been cut from my list. Zelda, Mewtwo, and Samus have alternate forms. I'm predicting Diddy Kong and Chrom may or may not be paired with Dixie and Lucina, respectively. As for Tingle: I really just didn't know who else to put in for the new Zelda representative. I hate the idea of toon clones, and the franchise really has been appropriately represented with just the iconic three. I guess he's in just for kicks and giggles.

Also, the way I ordered them in the selection screen seems about right. Have you guys noticed that Sakurai puts Kirby as close to the dead center as possible in each game? See for yourselves:

http://hyrulecentral.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/SSBN64-Character.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...M6kR-7SQ7W6LnjGwnHE60mjSv4N6NJloRF85rZBVRXYw4
http://86bb71d19d3bcb79effc-d9e6924...per-smash-bros-brawl-character-roster-big.jpg

I see lack of retro characters since Little Mac isn't one now. I recalled that Sakurai mentioned that he's looking forward to revive the retro characters.

Edited: I'm aware that he could meant Mega Man.

 

[The Boat]

The only way K. Rool appears is if he's in the new DKC, which I kind of doubt.

 

[Letterbomb]

Cutting Lucas for Flint is what you "truly believe" will happen?

Yes. I've never played a single Earthbound game, so I hold no preference to the characters. From what I researched, though, Flint has been high in character polls regarding that franchise, and Lucas is widely deemed as a "flavor of the month" character. Considering Sakurai wants to keep the roster size relatively similar to Brawl's, a cut for a popular character choice seemed the way to go.

 

[PK Gaming]

B+ was originally an attempt to take a stab at implementing Melee-like mechanics to Brawl. But it generally failed because of the limitations of modding when it initially started so its goals shifted to just "an improved Brawl with slight inspiration from Melee". Taking cues for some of the characters from Melee like Falcon's Knee being strong and having less hitlag (the moment the character freezes while being hit) to something like increasing the hitstun (at the time it was thought hitstun was "low" in Brawl but it was in fact not that at all; it was the fact that Sakurai enabled players to cancel hitstun with the air dodge and attacks earlier than in the previous titles). It started with monthly releases and lots of the discussion took place on an IRC channel. It had a dedicated following for quite some time for a small portion of the community and most Brawl/Melee players were very skeptical of the mod.

Then it progressed from monthly releases to "nightly builds" which wound up having a thousand different versions being released... (because a new release was put out every day) all in the name of trying to "balance" the game and also add mechanics to it. It was really a mess and by the time all of that was reigned in, the original team involved broke off and disappeared for awhile; disagreeing with the direction the other half of the team wanted to take the mod in.

Finally, the "new" team set out to release something "final", which I think was... version 6.0 or something. In this version, stage boundaries across the board were dramatically decreased to try and offset this thought that "matches were taking too long" compared to Melee. Suffice to say, this "fix" hurt the mod more than it helped, eventually leading to its quiet death. No support after that was released and shortly after that time, much of the original team behind B+ were working behind closed doors to attempt to make a move set of Melee Falco... which born out of that was the start of Project M in January of 2010.

To sum up, I wouldn't bother trying Brawl+ unless you just want to see what it's like. It's a haphazard mess of attempts to balance characters around mechanics that are half finished or half baked due to the limitations of modding Brawl in 2008-2009.

Brawl Minus is an attempt to make everyone broken ala Marvel while retaining much of Brawl's physics with quirky/gimmicky character designs and super high hitstun. It's a fun diversion if you want something new for Brawl that's meant to be for pure fun but support from the team behind it has seemingly... died. Most would chalk it up to the fact that Project M has stolen its spotlight because of the accomplishments P:M alone has achieved. But I would chalk it up to the fact that the mod lost its appeal due to the fact that the team actually tried to "balance" their intentionally broken-made cast of characters. It's really quite amusing and awfully confusing, but there you go. Now it rests where B+ does, in obscurity or a very niche amount of people actually still play it. It's marginally better if only because it was made during the more up-to-date modding era of Brawl but... like I said, it lost its appeal because the team started to take it in a direction it shouldn't have gone in.

But feel free to try either one out. They're both novel and interesting regardless (especially Brawl Minus). Some of the things Minus does is really interesting, such as giving Fox a Hybrid Air Dodge, so he can actually waveshine but also take advantage of the Brawl air dodge's benefits (he's the ONLY character with this ability in the game, too, no other char has a hybrid air dodge).

Minus is sort of a mishmash of a bunch of ideas but it's really neat how some of it comes together; especially characters like Bowser, Wolf, Sheik, Mario, etc.

Though that could have changed, I stopped messing with it really early on. So they could have removed it but I doubt it since the idea was to port Melee Fox to Brawl Minus and make him even more broken or something... at least I think so? Eh, I don't know.

So, there's your history lesson, hope you enjoyed.

Hehe, I was there during the heyday of B+ and B-.

Good times &#9834;

 

[SuperAndroid17]

5:20 and onward in this video is fucking legendary.

This is a modified version of Brawl right?

edit : it is

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Yes. I've never played a single Earthbound game, so I hold no preference to the characters. From what I researched, though, Flint has been high in character polls regarding that franchise, and Lucas is widely deemed as a "flavor of the month" character. Considering Sakurai wants to keep the roster size relatively similar to Brawl's, a cut for a popular character choice seemed the way to go.

Flint is even more "flavor of the month" than Lucas since he's a secondary character to Lucas in his own game.

 

[Ryce]

From what I researched, though, Flint has been high in character polls regarding that franchise, and Lucas is widely deemed as a "flavor of the month" character. Considering Sakurai wants to keep the roster size relatively similar to Brawl's, a cut for a popular character choice seemed the way to go.

Er... both characters are from Mother 3, only Lucas is far more important than Flint. That swap doesn't make any sense.

 

[Letterbomb]

Lol, well you're both definitely right, then. Didn't know they were from the same game--I really don't care much for the series. I was just looking at polls and frequent requests. Who do you think will pop up from Earthbound? I honestly don't believe they deserve more than one representative, myself, although they're bound to retain their two slots.

 

[Berordn]

If we keep two reps from Mother, I'm fairly certain we'd keeping the two of them, maybe distinguishing them a bit more.

I don't think Lucas is really on the chopping block, at least no more than Toon Link or (current) Ganondorf.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

I'd honestly rather have Kumatora than Lucas. She has more interesting powers and would add a much-needed female rep.

Also Agent J needs to be in these games, but I think I've mentioned that already.

 

[J-Tier]

I'd honestly rather have Kumatora than Lucas. She has more interesting powers and would add a much-needed female rep.

Also Agent J needs to be in these games, but I think I've mentioned that already.

Despite my doubts, I would love for her to be in.

 

[C.Olimar788]

Kumatora would be so cool. But there's basically no chance whatsoever of either of the current Mother reps being cut, and a very low chance of a third rep being added. Not at this point, anyway.

I think our best hope is for Kumatora to be an alternate costume for Lucas.

 

[Berordn]

Despite my doubts, I would love for her to be in.

Admittedly it'd be nice to see someone who actually learns those moves, and then she could get PK Ground or something similar. We can dream, anyway.

 

[Solune]

5:20 and onward in this video is fucking legendary.

Looked like Wizzy was playing a single player game kappa.

 

[HyperCubed4]

Kumatora won't make it, but the SSB team should give Lucas some more of Kumatora's moves, at the very least. Differentiate him from Ness. One idea: his Final Smash should be PK Ground. Bam. Million dollar idea. My cheque should be in the mail as we speak.

 

[Tan]

5:20 and onward in this video is fucking legendary.

That Sonic moves like a king. That was awesome.

 

[FlyFaster]

Now that E3 has come and gone, here is my educated prediction for the roster. None of the new additions are necessarily hopefuls but characters I truly believe will be added--save for Hades, who I just really want in despite his chances. Toon Link, Ike, Snake, Falco, Lucas, and Lucario have been cut from my list. Zelda, Mewtwo, and Samus have alternate forms. I'm predicting Diddy Kong and Chrom may or may not be paired with Dixie and Lucina, respectively. As for Tingle: I really just didn't know who else to put in for the new Zelda representative. I hate the idea of toon clones, and the franchise really has been appropriately represented with just the iconic three. I guess he's in just for kicks and giggles.

Also, the way I ordered them in the selection screen seems about right. Have you guys noticed that Sakurai puts Kirby as close to the dead center as possible in each game? See for yourselves:

http://hyrulecentral.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/SSBN64-Character.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...M6kR-7SQ7W6LnjGwnHE60mjSv4N6NJloRF85rZBVRXYw4
http://86bb71d19d3bcb79effc-d9e6924...per-smash-bros-brawl-character-roster-big.jpg

this is one of the worst lists I've ever seen. You really think King and Krystal are getting in? This isn't an educated guess/list, it's your own personal wishlist.

 

[J-Tier]

this is one of the worst lists I've ever seen. You really think Cool and Krystal are getting in? This isn't an educated guess/list, it's your own personal wishlist.

Kinda harsh, lets not push people away from our community. I don't see Naruto or Goku on that list, so this is far from some of the worst I've ever seen.

 

[FlyFaster]

Kinda harsh, lets not push people away from our community. I don't see Naruto or Goku on that list, so this is far from some of the worst I've ever seen.

lol, ok I guess that's true.

edit:
just seen so many of these list at this point where people feel the need to explain how their list isn't a personal wishlist but a real unbiased scientific work of art that needs serious consideration by various forum communities.

 

[Xux]

That's honestly a pretty conservative list and one I don't have any real issues with.

 

[Letterbomb]

this is one of the worst lists I've ever seen. You really think King and Krystal are getting in? This isn't an educated guess/list, it's your own personal wishlist.

Lolno. If this was my wishlist, there'd be much more of Geno, Plusle and Minun, Funky Kong, Knuckles, Tails, King Hippo, and etcetera. Despite the hatred for Krystal--myself being a part of that camp--Krystal is one of the most requested characters for a Smash title. The same goes for King K. Rool who has also placed highly in polls. Those two characters also meet Sakurai's personal criteria as far as unique aspects and movesets go.

Try not to appear so much like a dick.

just seen so many of these list at this point where people feel the need to explain how their list isn't a personal wishlist but a real unbiased scientific work of art that needs serious consideration by various forum communities.

Dear God, buddy. This is a forum. I'm posting this here to spark conversation on wishlists and speculation. What's your deal?

 

[PokéKong]

Ever since playing the Mother games I've been pretty peeved how so many of Ness and Lucas' moves are taken from the girls, it just doesn't seem right. And Kumatora or Paula would just make a nice addition to the roster visually, after how samey Ness and Lucas look.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Kinda harsh, lets not push people away from our community. I don't see Naruto or Goku on that list, so this is far from some of the worst I've ever seen.

Yeah, that Miiverse roster comprised mostly of Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network characters that I'm too terrified/lazy to look up was far, far worse.

Heck, I'd say that any roster without Hades in it is worse by default ;P

 

[PK Gaming]

Now that E3 has come and gone, here is my educated prediction for the roster. None of the new additions are necessarily hopefuls but characters I truly believe will be added--save for Hades, who I just really want in despite his chances. Toon Link, Ike, Snake, Falco, Lucas, and Lucario have been cut from my list. Zelda, Mewtwo, and Samus have alternate forms. I'm predicting Diddy Kong and Chrom may or may not be paired with Dixie and Lucina, respectively. As for Tingle: I really just didn't know who else to put in for the new Zelda representative. I hate the idea of toon clones, and the franchise really has been appropriately represented with just the iconic three. I guess he's in just for kicks and giggles.

Also, the way I ordered them in the selection screen seems about right. Have you guys noticed that Sakurai puts Kirby as close to the dead center as possible in each game? See for yourselves:

http://hyrulecentral.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/SSBN64-Character.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...M6kR-7SQ7W6LnjGwnHE60mjSv4N6NJloRF85rZBVRXYw4
http://86bb71d19d3bcb79effc-d9e6924...per-smash-bros-brawl-character-roster-big.jpg

For what it's worth I like this list overall &#9829;

 

[SeroTyler]

I am expecting racks on racks on racks of alternate costumes(Dr Mario/Mr. L/Daisy/Shadow as alts), how unrealistic is this?

Spoiler

Does anyone REALLY want King K Rool in the game?

 

[Boken]

this is one of the worst lists I've ever seen. You really think King and Krystal are getting in? This isn't an educated guess/list, it's your own personal wishlist.

NO FUN ALLOWED

 

[Berordn]

I am expecting racks on racks on racks of alternate costumes(Dr Mario/Mr. L/Daisy/Shadow as alts), how unrealistic is this?

Fairly unreasonable. Only Wario is special enough.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Does anyone REALLY want King K Rool in the game?

Why would you find it necessary to spoiler a harmless question, and Yes, I do want him in the game for nostalgia factor. Also I'm curious what kind of moveset he would receive. That's it.

 

[J-Tier]

Spoiler

Does anyone REALLY want King K Rool in the game?

I do. I want another heavy big bad in the game.

 

[Clov]

Spoiler

Does anyone REALLY want King K Rool in the game?

I want him in more than Ridley.

Maybe it's just my nostalgia for the good old days of Nintendo and Rareware working together, but I think he'd be a great character to play as.

 

[Troubled Bat]

I'd honestly rather have Kumatora than Lucas. She has more interesting powers and would add a much-needed female rep.

Despite my doubts, I would love for her to be in.

Kumatora would be so cool.

This love for Kumatora makes me happy. C:

 

[ffdgh]

Kumatora must have a violet alt..and pk ground.

 

[Not]

I'd honestly rather have Kumatora than Lucas. She has more interesting powers and would add a much-needed female rep.

Also Agent J needs to be in these games, but I think I've mentioned that already.

Please based Sakurai.

She needs to start showin up on fanpolls that Sakurai reads. (So, Japanese fanpolls?)

 

[IntelliHeath]

This love for Kumatora makes me happy. C:

Looking through Prediction List. I really like this character selection and their poses being colorful and popping out.

Replace Professor Layton with Villager, Falco with Wit Fit Trainer, Mega Man X with Classic Mega Man, Toon Link with Mii, and Sukapon with Little Mac.

That would be perfect roster for me. (Yeah, I'm biased. >.>)

 

[Not]

this is one of the worst lists I've ever seen. You really think King and Krystal are getting in? This isn't an educated guess/list, it's your own personal wishlist.

King and Krystal are my big two, as well. Good list.

Spoiler

'cept for Tingle

Also

#teamblackshadow

EDIT: Also Ghirahim, and now Kumatora. That should be gooooood

 

[J-Tier]

Though I haven't said it yet, I'm confessing that Falco is my favorite Smash character =(

There just seems to be such a dislike for him since he's more of a "straight-up clone".

 

[L Thammy]

I say make Jeff or Poo a character. Jeff could be interesting and he's already an assist trophy in Brawl. On the other hand, I want to hear the Smash announcer say "Poo".

I'm not sure that I care for him in Smash, but Falco's one of my favourite Nintendo characters. Star Fox SNES was one of my favourite games as a kid.

 

[ffdgh]

I don't hate him, I hate his blaster.

 

[J-Tier]

I say make Jeff or Poo a character. Jeff could be interesting and he's already an assist trophy in Brawl. On the other hand, I want to hear the Smash announcer say "Poo".

And the cheering...

"Poo! Poo! Poo! Poo! Poo!"

 

[Crocodile]

Considering how much of a bomb Golden Sun 3 was, do people honestly expect a character from that series to be promoted to playable status? Why? (Aside from just liking the series so you want a representative - i.e. dreams & wishes)

 

[L Thammy]

And the cheering...

"Poo! Poo! Poo! Poo! Poo!"

Poo's not number two!