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[Rhapsody]

I feel like I really missed something in Mario 64 since so many people seem to love it. I think it was good too, but Galaxy tops it easily.

Why do people hate Sunshine again? Because it was off the heels of 64?

Personally, my issue was that fludd made things too easy. Also the last stage and boss fight was underwhelming.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I feel like I really missed something in Mario 64 since so many people seem to love it. I think it was good too, but Galaxy tops it easily.


Personally, my issue was that fludd made things too easy. Also the last stage and boss fight was underwhelming.

I love 64 for what it was, but I'm with you on Galaxy being better.

My list looks like this.

Galaxy 2
3D Land
Galaxy 1
64
Sunshine - Not that it's bad, but I just didn't find the Fludd to be enjoyable to use and the bulk of the game is built around it.

 

[CassSept]

Sunshine is the only 3D Mario (well besides 3D Land, but I'm getting there eventually) that I hadn't 100%'d and it's because of blue coins

Galaxy 2
SM64
Galaxy
3DLand = Sunshine

My rough ranking, but it's incredible hard to rank them. I know Galaxy 2 is the best, then followed by SM64 and Galaxy (at this point I'd say 64>Galaxy, though I'm not so entirely sure), finally 3DL and SMS.

 

[bomma_man]

Why do people hate Sunshine again? Because it was off the heels of 64?

-Awful camera
-Blue coins
-Yoshi sucks
-Difficulty spikes/lack of polish
-Glitches
-FLUDD is way less elegant way of mitigating the problems of 3D platforming than the spin from Galaxy
-Terrible last boss
-The story and voice acting

 

[civilstrife]

3D land exists in an alternate universe where 2D Mario was successfully brought over to 3D without creating an entirely new genre.

I fully expect Nintendo to never make a Mario 64 style game again.

These ones are probably much quicker and easier to make and much better for casual/young gamers.

You'll never be able to control the camera in a Mario game again I suspect.

 

[leroidys]

3D land exists in an alternate universe where 2D Mario was successfully brought over to 3D without creating an entirely new genre.

I fully expect Nintendo to never make a Mario 64 style game again.

These ones are probably much quicker and easier to make and much better for casual/young gamers.

You'll never be able to control the camera in a Mario game again I suspect.

Wut? You can control the camera in SM3DW.

 

[El Odio]

3D land exists in an alternate universe where 2D Mario was successfully brought over to 3D without creating an entirely new genre.

I fully expect Nintendo to never make a Mario 64 style game again.

These ones are probably much quicker and easier to make and much better for casual/young gamers.

You'll never be able to control the camera in a Mario game again I suspect.

But you can control the camera in this game, they even released a video talking about this feature.

 

[Gleethor]

3D land exists in an alternate universe where 2D Mario was successfully brought over to 3D without creating an entirely new genre.

I fully expect Nintendo to never make a Mario 64 style game again.

These ones are probably much quicker and easier to make and much better for casual/young gamers.

You'll never be able to control the camera in a Mario game again I suspect.

Except, you know, in this game.

 

[leroidys]

Wut? You can control the camera in SM3DW.

But you can control the camera in this game, they even released a video talking about this feature.

Except, you know, in this game.

You can control iT!!!!!!!

 

[Volotaire]

3D land exists in an alternate universe where 2D Mario was successfully brought over to 3D without creating an entirely new genre.

I fully expect Nintendo to never make a Mario 64 style game again.

These ones are probably much quicker and easier to make and much better for casual/young gamers.

You'll never be able to control the camera in a Mario game again I suspect.

You can control iT!!!!!!!

 

[Chrisness]

I'm really sad with how this game is turning out to be. I know it will be tons of fun, but having 3D Mario be in a connected world DOES help the game in an unexplainable way... It's hard to explain, but I just know if Super Mario Sunshine had no story and no world, it would have been less of a game.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I'm really sad with how this game is turning out to be. I know it will be tons of fun, but having 3D Mario be in a connected world DOES help the game in an unexplainable way... It's hard to explain, but I just know if Super Mario Sunshine had no story and no world, it would have been less of a game.

People usually dislike the story part of Sunshine.

They also really like the FLUDDless levels which are about as unconnected as you can get.

 

[leroidys]

I'm really sad with how this game is turning out to be. I know it will be tons of fun, but having 3D Mario be in a connected world DOES help the game in an unexplainable way... It's hard to explain, but I just know if Super Mario Sunshine had no story and no world, it would have been less of a game.

Now THIS is a complaint I can definitely get behind. They're calling this SM3D world, but as far as I can tell, there is no traversable overworld, right? smh

 

[marc^o^]

Galaxy hubs were the worst elements in a Mario ever. Story cut scenes were a close second.

 

[dickgumshoe]

For me it's:

Top Tier
- Galaxy 2
- SM64
- Galaxy
- 3D Land

Upper Mid Tier
- Sunshine

Same. High five!

 

[Great Puma]

Just a few things that get under my skin:

1. Within the entire Super Mario series, Mario 64 and Sunshine are the outliers when it comes to that free-roaming exploration feel. Every other game, be it 2D or 3D, is more of a straightforward action title with minimal exploration sprinkled in along the way. (Even the Galaxy games, which despite the free, open illusion of space, were very linear.) Both styles are great and obviously no one's wrong for preferring either, but nobody should be surprised or upset, really, that Mario's latest games share the same play style as 90% of his other ones.

2. If the games media wants to call Nintendo out as playing it safe and not innovating, then they have to do the same for everyone else. In the grand scheme of things, none of the bazillion FPS or third-person action/adventure titles on the other systems are innovating any more than Nintendo's games are. New catsuit, stages, and tweaked physics/controls = new space gun, stages, and tweaked physics/controls in countless other titles. Nintendo, of all companies, does not deserve to be thought of as the industry's poster company for lack of innovation.

3. How would a third Galaxy game not have been less fresh and innovative than 3D World?

4. Why is there so much complaining about a Nintendo E3 showing that included a new 3D Super Mario Bros., a 2D Super Luigi, a new Donkey Kong Country, new Mario Kart, new Pikmin, new Mario & Luigi, a sequel to Link to the Past, an HD Wind Waker remake, two new Yoshi platformers, two exclusive Platinum games, a cool exclusive Sonic game, and fucking Mega Man in Smash Bros.? If all of that gets a "meh," then what the hell did we sign up for?

 

[Ulukai]

Wow. I should really play Galaxy 2. I hated that purple coin bs in Galaxy 1, is this still in Gal 2?

 

[KenOD]

Personally, my issue was that fludd made things too easy. Also the last stage and boss fight was underwhelming.

Every time these threads pop up, I realise more and more the reason I seem to have enjoyed Sunshine while so many others didn't, was because I tried to use every skill and ability Mario had to get around and finish a level with the least amount of FLUDD use possible. Doing that made me appreciate the levels a lot more, considering just how much you could get to without hovering.

I wonder how many people would still love Galaxy if the Cloud Suit or World if the Cape were permanent?

 

[Farmboy]

Just a few things that get under my skin:

1. Within the entire Super Mario series, Mario 64 and Sunshine are the outliers when it comes to that free-roaming exploration feel. Every other game, be it 2D or 3D, is more of a straightforward action title with minimal exploration sprinkled in along the way. (Even the Galaxy games, which despite the free, open illusion of space, were very linear.) Both styles are great and obviously no one's wrong for preferring either, but nobody should be surprised or upset, really, that Mario's latest games share the same play style as 90% of his other ones.

2. If the games media wants to call Nintendo out as playing it safe and not innovating, then they have to do the same for everyone else. In the grand scheme of things, none of the bazillion FPS or third-person action/adventure titles on the other systems are innovating any more than Nintendo's games are. New catsuit, stages, and tweaked physics/controls = new space gun, stages, and tweaked physics/controls in countless other titles. Nintendo, of all companies, does not deserve to be thought of as the industry's poster company for lack of innovation.

3. How would a third Galaxy game not have been less fresh and innovative than 3D World?

4. Why is there so much complaining about a Nintendo E3 showing that included a new 3D Super Mario Bros., a 2D Super Luigi, a new Donkey Kong Country, new Mario Kart, new Pikmin, new Mario & Luigi, a sequel to Link to the Past, an HD Wind Waker remake, two new Yoshi platformers, two exclusive Platinum games, a cool exclusive Sonic game, and fucking Mega Man in Smash Bros.? If all of that gets a "meh," then what the hell did we sign up for?

I agree with all of this, esp. the first point. Regarding point #4, that's just a direct (ha) result of Nintendo spreading out its announcements over the course of a year now. Over half of what you mention was already known. Of course, it makes very little sense for Nintendo to 'save' all of its surprises for E3 in this day and age, but longtime fans are having a hard time adjusting. Imagine an E3 press conference featuring all those titles with none of them known beforehand and it would probably have gone over better.

 

[Freezie KO]

I wonder how many people would still love Galaxy if the Cloud Suit or World if the Cape were permanent?

Part of the genius of Galaxy 2 is that they get to decide when to give you the Cloud Suit. And the cape is definitely broken in SMW. SMW is way too easy.

2. If the games media wants to call Nintendo out as playing it safe and not innovating, then they have to do the same for everyone else. In the grand scheme of things, none of the bazillion FPS or third-person action/adventure titles on the other systems are innovating any more than Nintendo's games are. New catsuit, stages, and tweaked physics/controls = new space gun, stages, and tweaked physics/controls in countless other titles. Nintendo, of all companies, does not deserve to be thought of as the industry's poster company for lack of innovation.

3. How would a third Galaxy game not have been less fresh and innovative than 3D World?

4. Why is there so much complaining about a Nintendo E3 showing that included a new 3D Super Mario Bros., a 2D Super Luigi, a new Donkey Kong Country, new Mario Kart, new Pikmin, new Mario & Luigi, a sequel to Link to the Past, an HD Wind Waker remake, two new Yoshi platformers, two exclusive Platinum games, a cool exclusive Sonic game, and fucking Mega Man in Smash Bros.? If all of that gets a "meh," then what the hell did we sign up for?

2. I'm not the games media, but when it comes to games like 3D Mario, I hold Nintendo to a higher standard. The 3D platformers have a legacy of completely switching up the formula each time they've debuted on new hardware. That legacy has been broken with 3D World.

I'm probably not going to buy a PS4 or X180. So if Bungie's game looks just like CoD with jetpacks, it doesn't bother me. It bothers me when the game I was looking forward to most (besides Pikmin 3) disappoints me.

3. Personally, while I would've preferred Galaxy 3 over 3D World because I liked Galaxy much better than 3D Land, I didn't really want Galaxy 3. I wanted something new.

4. Nintendo's line-up is strong, but there's little denying that games are safe. I would argue that on every single one of their prior consoles, Nintendo has mixed up their formulas or invented all new games more in the first two years than on the Wii U. And I'm not just talking about the IPs. I'm talking gameplay.

 

[DrWong]

Just a few things that get under my skin:

1. Within the entire Super Mario series, Mario 64 and Sunshine are the outliers when it comes to that free-roaming exploration feel. Every other game, be it 2D or 3D, is more of a straightforward action title with minimal exploration sprinkled in along the way. (Even the Galaxy games, which despite the free, open illusion of space, were very linear.) Both styles are great and obviously no one's wrong for preferring either, but nobody should be surprised or upset, really, that Mario's latest games share the same play style as 90% of his other ones.

2. If the games media wants to call Nintendo out as playing it safe and not innovating, then they have to do the same for everyone else. In the grand scheme of things, none of the bazillion FPS or third-person action/adventure titles on the other systems are innovating any more than Nintendo's games are. New catsuit, stages, and tweaked physics/controls = new space gun, stages, and tweaked physics/controls in countless other titles. Nintendo, of all companies, does not deserve to be thought of as the industry's poster company for lack of innovation.

3. How would a third Galaxy game not have been less fresh and innovative than 3D World?

4. Why is there so much complaining about a Nintendo E3 showing that included a new 3D Super Mario Bros., a 2D Super Luigi, a new Donkey Kong Country, new Mario Kart, new Pikmin, new Mario & Luigi, a sequel to Link to the Past, an HD Wind Waker remake, two new Yoshi platformers, two exclusive Platinum games, a cool exclusive Sonic game, and fucking Mega Man in Smash Bros.? If all of that gets a "meh," then what the hell did we sign up for?

Well said.

Oh and: YOU CAN CONTROL THE CAMERA!

 

[JoeM86]

Just a few things that get under my skin:

1. Within the entire Super Mario series, Mario 64 and Sunshine are the outliers when it comes to that free-roaming exploration feel. Every other game, be it 2D or 3D, is more of a straightforward action title with minimal exploration sprinkled in along the way. (Even the Galaxy games, which despite the free, open illusion of space, were very linear.) Both styles are great and obviously no one's wrong for preferring either, but nobody should be surprised or upset, really, that Mario's latest games share the same play style as 90% of his other ones.

2. If the games media wants to call Nintendo out as playing it safe and not innovating, then they have to do the same for everyone else. In the grand scheme of things, none of the bazillion FPS or third-person action/adventure titles on the other systems are innovating any more than Nintendo's games are. New catsuit, stages, and tweaked physics/controls = new space gun, stages, and tweaked physics/controls in countless other titles. Nintendo, of all companies, does not deserve to be thought of as the industry's poster company for lack of innovation.

3. How would a third Galaxy game not have been less fresh and innovative than 3D World?

4. Why is there so much complaining about a Nintendo E3 showing that included a new 3D Super Mario Bros., a 2D Super Luigi, a new Donkey Kong Country, new Mario Kart, new Pikmin, new Mario & Luigi, a sequel to Link to the Past, an HD Wind Waker remake, two new Yoshi platformers, two exclusive Platinum games, a cool exclusive Sonic game, and fucking Mega Man in Smash Bros.? If all of that gets a "meh," then what the hell did we sign up for?

Your points echo how I feel, especially the last one. This was one of Nintendo's strongest ever E3 showings, and people are just so disillusioned by it.

I too fail to see why linear Mario is suddenly bad. There's still bits to explore in these levels, and they aren't small either. People are acting like this game will just be bite-sized chunks.

 

[squid]

My list:

Galaxy 1
Super Mario 64
Galaxy 2
Sunshine
3D Land

Note: I love 3D Land. Seriously, that's like a 9/10 game for me, but the series is just that good. So even if I am quite disappointed they're doing a 3D Land sequel (as opposed to what they COULD be doing), I'm sure I'll really enjoy 3D World.

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

2. If the games media wants to call Nintendo out as playing it safe and not innovating, then they have to do the same for everyone else. In the grand scheme of things, none of the bazillion FPS or third-person action/adventure titles on the other systems are innovating any more than Nintendo's games are. New catsuit, stages, and tweaked physics/controls = new space gun, stages, and tweaked physics/controls in countless other titles. Nintendo, of all companies, does not deserve to be thought of as the industry's poster company for lack of innovation.

Nintendo has raised the bar so high that it's harder for people to get drunk. Overall, I agree with you, but there are people that hold them to a higher standard. It takes those people a lot of shots to get Nintendrunk while at the same time getting tipsy very easily on cheap beer with new labels.

 

[Taker666]

Your points echo how I feel, especially the last one. This was one of Nintendo's strongest ever E3 showings, and people are just so disillusioned by it.

It's because people were counting on the new Mario and Retro games to be big AAA reveals/visual showcases for the hardware. In the case of Retro they expected a system pushing game that was aimed at a slightly older core demographic... be it Metroid or a new IP. People were expecting to be blown away by a an epic new Mario game from the makers of Super Mario Galaxy that had a similar impact/change in direction to that game.

Instead we got an HD follow up to Mario 3D Land and an HD sequel to DKCR. People were expecting Retro's new game and the new Mario to be the BIG tentpole games... instead we got what looks like (at first glance at least) a couple of cookie cutter follow-ups.

Many are now likely looking past those two games and wondering how long it will now be before they get the games they were hoping for.

 

[Darryl]

4. Why is there so much complaining about a Nintendo E3 showing that included a new 3D Super Mario Bros., a 2D Super Luigi, a new Donkey Kong Country, new Mario Kart, new Pikmin, new Mario & Luigi, a sequel to Link to the Past, an HD Wind Waker remake, two new Yoshi platformers, two exclusive Platinum games, a cool exclusive Sonic game, and fucking Mega Man in Smash Bros.? If all of that gets a "meh," then what the hell did we sign up for?

also a big budget open-world sequel to a game that is now commonly called one of the best RPGs of all time. can't forget that 1

I'm sure it's been discussed already but does anyone else find the name "3D World" a little odd for this game? Clearly it's based on/a sequel to/an evolution of 3D Land, but 3D Land was called that because it was on the 3ds and had level designs and camera angles that emphasized the stereoscopic 3d effect. The Wii U has no such effect so what exactly does "3D World" refer to here? This game is no more or less 3d than Mario 64 or Sunshine or the Galaxy games.

yea it was the first funky thing i noticed about the game. my guess was that they still plan on making more 3D Mario games for the Wii U and wanted this one to differentiate itself.

 

[Aostia]

My list:

Galaxy 2
Mario 3D Land
Galaxy 1
Mario64
Sunshine

hopefully this one, looking at the pace, the level structure, the multiplayer, the colorful graphics and so on, could surpass the two "open world" mario in my chart. I prefer the more "streamlined" platforms

 

[squid]

Just a few things that get under my skin:

1. Within the entire Super Mario series, Mario 64 and Sunshine are the outliers when it comes to that free-roaming exploration feel. Every other game, be it 2D or 3D, is more of a straightforward action title with minimal exploration sprinkled in along the way. (Even the Galaxy games, which despite the free, open illusion of space, were very linear.) Both styles are great and obviously no one's wrong for preferring either, but nobody should be surprised or upset, really, that Mario's latest games share the same play style as 90% of his other ones.

2. If the games media wants to call Nintendo out as playing it safe and not innovating, then they have to do the same for everyone else. In the grand scheme of things, none of the bazillion FPS or third-person action/adventure titles on the other systems are innovating any more than Nintendo's games are. New catsuit, stages, and tweaked physics/controls = new space gun, stages, and tweaked physics/controls in countless other titles. Nintendo, of all companies, does not deserve to be thought of as the industry's poster company for lack of innovation.

3. How would a third Galaxy game not have been less fresh and innovative than 3D World?

4. Why is there so much complaining about a Nintendo E3 showing that included a new 3D Super Mario Bros., a 2D Super Luigi, a new Donkey Kong Country, new Mario Kart, new Pikmin, new Mario & Luigi, a sequel to Link to the Past, an HD Wind Waker remake, two new Yoshi platformers, two exclusive Platinum games, a cool exclusive Sonic game, and fucking Mega Man in Smash Bros.? If all of that gets a "meh," then what the hell did we sign up for?

1. I'm not sure comparing the 3D Super Mario games to the 2D Sidescrollers is very fair. They're pretty much a different franchise, since the NSMB series is continuing the 2D games. So if you take into consideration only the 3D games, 2/5 of them (40%) have that more free-roaming exploration feel. So I think it's perfectly normal to be disappointed that they're not going back to that style, if you prefer it.

2. Very much agree. I think it might be because Nintendo is very much gameplay first, story second (or third, or fourth, or eighteenth). Whereas the mainstream industry has really moved to more story-based, interactive movie-like, blockbuster AAA games. People look at Nintendo and think "You're still in that old-fashioned 'Gameplay First' philosophy of making games. Get with the times!" They miss (or don't care about) the innovation and ideas that Nintendo put into the actual gameplay (and the way you control it), instead of the presentation of it.

3. I don't know if others are the same, but for me personally, I would've preferred a Galaxy 3. Not because it would be more fresh and innovative, but just because I liked that game better than 3D Land. Still, my top preference would have been something completely new.

4. I agree that Nintendo's lineup is actually really good. But the way Nintendo presented it was pretty poor IMO (especially with the frustrating problems with the stream). I was very unimpressed immediately after the conference was over, but in the days following E3 I watched the trailers, the developer interviews and the release schedule and realised that I was actually pretty happy with their showing of games. The 3DS' great year is continuing and the Wii U has a great run from Pikmin 3 through to December and beyond (hopefully MarioKart isn't too far into 2014).

 

[JoeM86]

It's because people were counting on the new Mario and Retro games to be big AAA reveals/visual showcases for the hardware. In the case of Retro they expected a system pushing game that was aimed at a slightly older core demographic... be it Metroid or a new IP. People were expecting to be blown away by a an epic new Mario game from the makers of Super Mario Galaxy that had a similar impact/change in direction to that game.

Instead we got an HD follow up to Mario 3D Land and an HD sequel to DKCR. People were expecting Retro's new game and the new Mario to be the BIG tentpole games... instead we got what looks like (at first glance at least) a couple of cookie cutter follow-ups.

Many are now likely looking past those two games and wondering how long it will now be before they get the games they were hoping for.

I do agree that I was surprised that they were doing a follow up as the Mario game, but that doesn't mean it'll be bad, lazy or not epic...I'm excited for it.

As for DKC, people were expecting a Metroid game and for it to save the Wii U. Metroid games do not sell well, as much as people would like them to, and this year is all about pushing the Wii U's sales. So, instead, Retro did a sequel to a game which sold more than the entire Metroid trilogy. It makes good business sense, and it's a sequel to a fantastically well received game

 

[Dion Blaster]

Its funny that the title looks like it says Super Mario 3D Worlds and it is actually a mix of all the 3D Mario game ideas.

Hmm that's a really good observation. It's stuck out to me as kind of annoying because I do keep reading it as "Worlds" but it may make sense next to the developer's quote about this being the culmination of the best elements of many different Marios. Or maybe it's just PR speak. Can't wait to find out.

Edit: Also glad to see some people agree with my list. I would have Galaxy above 3D Land, but 3D Land is much more fun to replay to me, Galaxy 2 fixed this though. To me nothing beats the replay value of 64, the game just feels like the developers laid out the whole castle to you, and you can go anywhere you want as long as you have enough stars. I've still never experienced that type of feeling in any other game.

 

[spliced]

I'd rank them:

1. Mario 64
2. Galaxy 2
3. 3D Land
4. Galaxy

The only one I can't figure out is Sunshine. It had some parts I really liked a lot but it also had some bad level design and the blue coins were a mess.

 

[AniHawk]

galaxy 2
galaxy
sunshine
sm64
the other one

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

It's because people were counting on the new Mario and Retro games to be big AAA reveals/visual showcases for the hardware. In the case of Retro they expected a system pushing game that was aimed at a slightly older core demographic... be it Metroid or a new IP. People were expecting to be blown away by a an epic new Mario game from the makers of Super Mario Galaxy that had a similar impact/change in direction to that game.

Instead we got an HD follow up to Mario 3D Land and an HD sequel to DKCR. People were expecting Retro's new game and the new Mario to be the BIG tentpole games... instead we got what looks like (at first glance at least) a couple of cookie cutter follow-ups.

Many are now likely looking past those two games and wondering how long it will now be before they get the games they were hoping for.

You're exactly right.

 

[D.Lo]

It's because people were counting on the new Mario and Retro games to be big AAA reveals/visual showcases for the hardware. In the case of Retro they expected a system pushing game that was aimed at a slightly older core demographic... be it Metroid or a new IP. People were expecting to be blown away by a an epic new Mario game from the makers of Super Mario Galaxy that had a similar impact/change in direction to that game.

Instead we got an HD follow up to Mario 3D Land and an HD sequel to DKCR. People were expecting Retro's new game and the new Mario to be the BIG tentpole games... instead we got what looks like (at first glance at least) a couple of cookie cutter follow-ups.

Many are now likely looking past those two games and wondering how long it will now be before they get the games they were hoping for.

Exactly right. The Metroid Primes were graphical showcases for Gamecube and Wii, especially early on. And Galaxy was one of the best looking games ever at the time of release.

They also used the hardware well in others ways - Prime 3 and Galaxy were poster children for Wii Remote usage in 'core' games.

Both these games look 100% doable on the Wii. Or even the 3DS, considering DKCR is on 3DS with minimal compromise.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

For the heck of it, my unofficial 3D Mario rankings:

1. Mario 64
2. Galaxy 2
3. 3D Land
4. Galaxy
5. Sunshine

1. Galaxy 2
2. 3D land
3. 64
4. Galaxy
5. Sunshine

If Sunshine had just had more development it couldve taken out most of those blue coins and thrown in a few more levels it wouldve been great. It still would get slightly panned for the FLUDD and deservingly the cutscenes but at least it'd be an amazing game. Sunshine was a ton of fun and I loved Noki Bay, Bianco Hills, Pinna Park, Ricco Harbor and Gelato Beach. If Nintendo had been able to include a few more levels which offered some variety I think the fane wouldve been a lot more fondly remembered.

 

[jts]

Exactly right. The Metroid Primes were graphical showcases for Gamecube and Wii, especially early on. And Galaxy was one of the best looking games ever at the time of release.

They also used the hardware well in others ways - Prime 3 and Galaxy were poster children for Wii Remote usage in 'core' games.

Both these games look 100% doable on the Wii. Or even the 3DS, considering DKCR is on 3DS with minimal compromise.

Lets be clear, this is the crispest, cleanest looking Mario game, ever.

Yes, we are at a point of diminishing returns. This game, like most games (either from the Wii U or from the X360, PS3 or newer), could be downported to lesser hardware and still exist as more or less the same game.

Doesn't mean that we can't enjoy dat HD goodness.

 

[Raitaro]

It's because people were counting on the new Mario and Retro games to be big AAA reveals/visual showcases for the hardware. In the case of Retro they expected a system pushing game that was aimed at a slightly older core demographic... be it Metroid or a new IP. People were expecting to be blown away by a an epic new Mario game from the makers of Super Mario Galaxy that had a similar impact/change in direction to that game.

Instead we got an HD follow up to Mario 3D Land and an HD sequel to DKCR. People were expecting Retro's new game and the new Mario to be the BIG tentpole games... instead we got what looks like (at first glance at least) a couple of cookie cutter follow-ups.

Many are now likely looking past those two games and wondering how long it will now be before they get the games they were hoping for.

I see two possibilities that not necessarily exclude each other. The first one is as is stated above (or to paraphrase it in my own words: that tentpole releases, i.e. games with sufficient wow factor to turn heads, should equal either innovative new games and/or more mature games and/or games that at the very least don't feel like a complete throwback or retread).

The second one comes down to the fact that somehow it always seems to be specifically Nintendo's yearly E3 presentation that reminds people of the fact that they have gotten another year further away from their happier childhoods in which every game could surprise them, turning whatever Nintendo is presenting into an automatic disappointment.

As for myself: by now I almost don't know anymore if I should feel positive or negative about any of the new games that Nintendo showed. Most of them looked polished and like a ton of fun, but I also can't shake the feeling that they are holding back when it comes to creating games that are innovative and impressive on a level that many of their older games were. Is it nostalgia, bitterness over losing my Nintendo infused youth, both or neither: I just don't know...but at the same time I do know that a part of me keeps wanting to monitor Nintendo closely regardless of possible future disappointments.

Or to quote Jeff Gerstmann (from I believe the Sealed Envelope pre-E3 Bombcast): "I miss Nintendo."

 

[Polari]

Sunshine is still the best 3D Mario, camera issues aside.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I too fail to see why linear Mario is suddenly bad. There's still bits to explore in these levels, and they aren't small either. People are acting like this game will just be bite-sized chunks.

I don't think most people are saying that 3D World looks bad. I think most people are disappointed because when they hear that the next 3D Mario is coming they expect something more then a sequel to a 3DS game, as enjoyable as that game may be.

It doesn't look bad by any stretch of the imagination, but it isn't what I wanted as a follow up to Galaxy/Galaxy 2 in any way.

 

[olimpia84]

For me:

SM64
3D Land
Galaxy 2
Galaxy
Sunshine

 

[Spieler Eins]

2. If the games media wants to call Nintendo out as playing it safe and not innovating, then they have to do the same for everyone else. In the grand scheme of things, none of the bazillion FPS or third-person action/adventure titles on the other systems are innovating any more than Nintendo's games are. New catsuit, stages, and tweaked physics/controls = new space gun, stages, and tweaked physics/controls in countless other titles. Nintendo, of all companies, does not deserve to be thought of as the industry's poster company for lack of innovation.

Yes, they should. And teams like EAD Tokyo are usually better than the rest, so it's a disgrace that they turn 3D Mario into fucking New Mario Bros-esque milking. Especially after the whole WiiU library and outlook looks equally uninspired and lazy. Which ultimately isn't just a matter of horsepower - the first reveal of the Wii and it's lineup were stunning.

3. How would a third Galaxy game not have been less fresh and innovative than 3D World?

It wouldn't have. It would have been equally frustrating, but at least Galaxy has the proper priorities a home console game should have, compared to a map pack for a handheld game. When a Mario Kart looks more ambitious than your mainline game, which is the case here, you've got a fucking problem.

4. Why is there so much complaining about a Nintendo E3 showing that included a new 3D Super Mario Bros., a 2D Super Luigi, a new Donkey Kong Country, new Mario Kart, new Pikmin, new Mario & Luigi, a sequel to Link to the Past, an HD Wind Waker remake, two new Yoshi platformers, two exclusive Platinum games, a cool exclusive Sonic game, and fucking Mega Man in Smash Bros.? If all of that gets a "meh," then what the hell did we sign up for?

Because the WiiU is their first HD console, but also their first time in which every single game of theirs feels like a rehash when it comes to gameplay, looks and... why did we need that 100$ controller again? Well, at least Mario Kart shows ambition and that's it outside of the PG deal and X, which will ultimately only appeal to a niche anyway.
3DS is a beast though. But they also did a piss poor job of promoting their only good stuff.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

2. I'm not the games media, but when it comes to games like 3D Mario, I hold Nintendo to a higher standard. The 3D platformers have a legacy of completely switching up the formula each time they've debuted on new hardware. That legacy has been broken with 3D World.

Dat Rose Tinted glasses. Don't know how World and Sunshine completely switched up the formula. Both were pretty much interesting new takes on the games that came before them (SMB3 and Mario64).

It wouldn't have. It would have been equally frustrating, but at least Galaxy has the proper priorities a home console game should have, compared to a map pack for a handheld game. When a Mario Kart looks more ambitious than your mainline game, which is the case here, you've got a fucking problem.

More ambitious how? Its the next step up from Mario Kart 7 (a 3ds game). All the advances and features from MK7 now with anti-gravity. M3dW is the next step up from 3d Land (a 3ds game). All the advances and features from 3dL now with multiplayer and new suits. But you know what? Screw all that gameplay stuff, ambition is all about them graphix right?

 

[Raitaro]

Lets be clear, this is the crispest, cleanest looking Mario game, ever.

Yes, we are at a point of diminishing returns. This game, like most games (either from the Wii U or from the X360, PS3 or newer), could be downported to lesser hardware and still exist as more or less the same game.

Doesn't mean that we can't enjoy dat HD goodness.

I agree, but are these games in fact not "diminishing returns" only because increased graphical fidelity nowadays doesn't come paired with increased gameplay, world design and control innovation (not fully counting motion controls as for me they never were universally better)? Maybe people expect more from Nintendo because they were the pioneers of this three-tiered innovation. Super Mario 64 for instance looked quite stunning when it was released, but what impressed us back then even more was the increased scope of the game world and the unprecedented controls made available to explore this new expansive and varied playground.

Part of me feels like it should not be too much to ask for Nintendo to at least occasionally try to expand their flagship franchises into new territories similar to how they did with Sumari 64. Maybe this is what so many people (in this thread) are feeling as well (?).

 

[jett]

Why do people hate Sunshine again? Because it was off the heels of 64?

Because it had a minimal amount of levels and half of them are terrible. At least, that's how I felt about it. It's unfortunate because the controls were spot on and I dug the Fludd mechanics.

 

[schuelma]

It wouldn't have. It would have been equally frustrating, but at least Galaxy has the proper priorities a home console game should have, compared to a map pack for a handheld game.

Deep down I think you probably have a point here, but then you go out and say crap like this. I mean, you can reasonably criticize Nintendo's decision here without resorting to ridiculous exaggeration.

 

[daakusedo]

I remember seeing that screen, but not like that, those trees, they're even more detailled
than I thought. Taking into account the grass is moving too, I have some good scenery pictured.

 

[RobFox64tm]

I check this thread everyday hoping to find that people have moved on from the "this isn't Galaxy 3" bullshit and have begun just talking about the game for what it is. Seriously, can't we just let it go now? You all bitch and moan, but the simple truth of the matter is that most of you will still buy this game because you know you'll have fun playing it. That should be all that matters for any Mario game.

 

[D.Lo]

I see two possibilities that not necessarily exclude each other. The first one is as is stated above (or to paraphrase it in my own words: that tentpole releases, i.e. games with sufficient wow factor to turn heads, should equal either innovative new games and/or more mature games and/or games that at the very least don't feel like a complete throwback or retread).

The second one comes down to the fact that somehow it always seems to be specifically Nintendo's yearly E3 presentation that reminds people of the fact that they have gotten another year further away from their happier childhoods in which every game could surprise them, turning whatever Nintendo is presenting into an automatic disappointment.

As for myself: by now I almost don't know anymore if I should feel positive or negative about any of the new games that Nintendo showed. Most of them looked polished and like a ton of fun, but I also can't shake the feeling that they are holding back when it comes to creating games that are innovative and impressive on a level that many of their older games were. Is it nostalgia, bitterness over losing my Nintendo infused youth, both or neither: I just don't know...but at the same time I do know that a part of me keeps wanting to monitor Nintendo closely regardless of possible future disappointments.

Or to quote Jeff Gerstmann (from I believe the Sealed Envelope pre-E3 Bombcast): "I miss Nintendo."

Nonsense, Nintendo still have ability to create awesome games. Galaxy 2 was only 3 years ago. And in upcoming games, we're finally getting Pikmin 3, and Mario Kart 8 looks amaaaazing - It's what I wanted from the next 3D Mario - knockout graphics and new ideas.

To me, Mario 3D World is very clearly the result of a 'get something out this year' directive. Given that, I'm sure they're doing as well as they can, but it certainly doesn't look like one of the most talented development teams on the planet trying to outdo everyone.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It is kind of hard to be against this game when its critics engage in such cartoonish ridiculousness.

 

[Easy_D]

Because it had a minimal amount of levels and half of them are terrible. At least, that's how I felt about it. It's unfortunate because the controls were spot on and I dug the Fludd mechanics.

If all the levels had the same quality as Noki Bay it'd be amazing.