And they also are successful a lot of the time, too. That's because it's more about situational anticipation than raw reaction. At no time did I even remotely suggest that those things were not blockable, or that throws were not techable. You're just not doing it strictly off reaction. You're reading patterns or making a situational read, plus reacting.
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- Thread starter enzo_gt
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And they also are successful a lot of the time, too. That's because it's more about situational anticipation than raw reaction. At no time did I even remotely suggest that those things were not blockable, or that throws were not techable. You're just not doing it strictly off reaction. You're reading patterns or making a situational read, plus reacting.
UltraDavid
Member
They've done that before by ensuring they don't have the latest version of the game at Evo, but it's pretty tough when so many players will have gotten and practiced with the update and considering how many people want Scorpion nerfed. I'm not sure what they're gonna do.
awful
Animation absolutely plays a part in it. See moves like Miguel's db+1 in Tekken, that's a 23 frame low that hits everyone unless they are looking for it, mainly because of the way it's animated.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
isn't gg throw techs like 3 frames or something?
Also I fail to tech throws because when ever I get air grabbed my rachel I always think, "GOD DAMN HER AIR THROW RANGE IS SO FUCKING STUPID"
then I go oh I should tech
In the end though it still falls upon a players ability to react more than any other thing. Someone could know every move a player will do, but if their reaction speeds are crap it wont matter.
scorps teleport has no telegraphed startup that cant be faked by something else. and any of the screen effects happen when its too late. animation is more important than frames. he can also do it in virtually any situation and any position.
the animation is sometimes way more of a factor than the speed. hellsweeps are close to 20 frames and not a player on this planet can see them
the animation is sometimes way more of a factor than the speed. hellsweeps are close to 20 frames and not a player on this planet can see them
Evo banned Zod so that patch might not be used for evo
CEOJebailey
Neo Member
Hey Pretty Panda if you need any details don't be afraid to hit me up. Also how do I get a gold of Enzo-gt? Couple of those stream links are wrong on the OP.
Nabs
Member
Neilimen J Alicea ‏@GutterMagic1 2m
@CEOJebailey i remember that name talkin in twitch chats. all that person does is complain lol
so good
you can PM him on these boards or just post something negative about Kanye, followed by your fixed links
yep: blazblue's game engine disables throw breaks for a while after you attempt a throw break. in fact advanced players take advantage of this by pretending to go for a throw, trick the opponent into entering a throw break, then throw them for reals!
http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Defense_(BBCP)#Throw_Reject_Miss
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's a case of people trying to use prediction aka reads over reaction and failing for it
That's because it's not just twitch reaction to any stimulus; you are reacting to one option of at least two. The starting point is irrelevant for the purpose of determining which branch is being taken; the only thing that matters for reaction purposes is the point of differentiation.
If you're perpetually putting yourself in situations where reaction time is the most important thing, you're a bad player.
I was in surgery the whole day and we are still talking about Scorpion.
I agree with FChamp/PRRog that 20 frames are around what can be reasonably reacted to. 15 frame is probably the threshold and anything below is extremely difficult to react to.
That said the animation has to be very clear and you can only use overheads close up... not from anywhere on the screen. You cannot fucking tell me that a full screen overhead in SF4 won't be cheap as fuck that also teleports the character. If only the start up was the sole problem with Scorpion but its not.
I agree with FChamp/PRRog that 20 frames are around what can be reasonably reacted to. 15 frame is probably the threshold and anything below is extremely difficult to react to.
That said the animation has to be very clear and you can only use overheads close up... not from anywhere on the screen. You cannot fucking tell me that a full screen overhead in SF4 won't be cheap as fuck that also teleports the character. If only the start up was the sole problem with Scorpion but its not.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
This is pretty false as well. I thrived off of punishing with vapor thrust in GGXX#reload. I even had some dust loop post saying they felt like they couldnt ever attack me
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
http://www.injustice.com/en/news/injustice-patch-v105-release-notes
Oh fuck me
BOO BOON
BOO
oh and also
Oh fuck me
BOO BOON
BOO
oh and also
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
People remember why that ban was instantiated in the first place, right?
It's probably unreasonable to expect them to thoroughly check every controller. And a rule that can't be enforced properly is no better than having no rule at all, so a blanket ban makes more sense.
Phoenix didn't win a major for months, and though she was a somewhat popular character out of the gate, a lot of the early conventional wisdom was that she was too high risk to rely on for tournament wins.
Yup. I get hit by slow ass shit all the time simply because it tends to look like something else at first.
RockTurtle
Member
GAF members getting FGC famous?
Ragingnight
Member
nvm
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Even if those are old everything else is new.
EarlyEarly
Member
Jaxel coined When's Marvel?
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Harley buffs? Neat. Maybe she'll actually have more trait setups now.
Ragingnight
Member
Yeah I realized that. Thats why I edited.
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
marlinpie is going to play soon on 8wayrun.
Been a long time since we've seen him play.
Been a long time since we've seen him play.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Seriously?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Have they released patch notes ahead of the patch coming out like this before?
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
Well that makes sense.
that doesn't make my statement false at all...
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Sure it does
That part^ becomes false. There are some match ups and situations where it just happens and the other player can't do much about it once it starts. At that point they must rely on reaction to get out of the situation. This is true for almost every match in every fighting game. This does not make them bad players.
this conversation doesn't work because you don't understand words.
Prototype-03
Member
I don't understand. Are you saying that you don't react in fighting games? As in, you trust in yourself and your moves alone?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I understand words just fine. You seem to have some weird ass view of how fighting game matches get played out.
and he never asked for a penny for it, he did it for the community
Passive Assassin
Member
He did it for the free market.
Usually they do it the day before or of the patch, so this is new.
Also I fail to tech throws because when ever I get air grabbed my rachel I always think, "GOD DAMN HER AIR THROW RANGE IS SO FUCKING STUPID"
then I go oh I should tech
Thanks for making me realize I should abuse this more.
Prototype-03
Member
I always abuse it. To the point where I lose games 'cause I'm trying to grab.
It's so fun. Wind, grab.
FindMyFarms
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";66295621]I thought everybody just used hitboxes.
What's wrong, is someone thinks that Scorpion's teleport is a 50/50.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't going to chime in, but after seeing that vid it's definitely a guess, no one can react to that.
Side note on frame data, it can be misleading with regards to how hard it is to react to a move. You're reacting to the visual stimulus of anoverhead, so even if a move is say, 100 frames, if you dont actually see the move until the 95'th frame, then it's still impossible to block. So why scorpion's teleport is 23 frames total or whatever, half of that is scorpion leaving, and the remaining frames is when he's actually attacking, definitely less than 10.
Anyways watch the move, you can't block that on reaction. Not tooting my horn, but I have pretty crazy reactions, and there's no way I'd be able to do that.
What's wrong, is someone thinks that Scorpion's teleport is a 50/50.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't going to chime in, but after seeing that vid it's definitely a guess, no one can react to that.
Side note on frame data, it can be misleading with regards to how hard it is to react to a move. You're reacting to the visual stimulus of anoverhead, so even if a move is say, 100 frames, if you dont actually see the move until the 95'th frame, then it's still impossible to block. So why scorpion's teleport is 23 frames total or whatever, half of that is scorpion leaving, and the remaining frames is when he's actually attacking, definitely less than 10.
Anyways watch the move, you can't block that on reaction. Not tooting my horn, but I have pretty crazy reactions, and there's no way I'd be able to do that.
biosnake20
Member
.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yup it's not 23 frames, it's closer to about 10 or so. 23 frames is slow as fuck.
No, you just can't, or don't, read.
Do you understand what these words mean? Obviously people get in situations where reactions matter. No shit. But if being in those situations is all you ever do, you suck. Smart players play to minimize those situations as much as possible and to leverage those situations for themselves. Players with inferior reactions beat players with faster reactions all the time. Nobody said reactions don't matter; clearly they do, because it's not a turn-based game (Hell, even in turn-based games, the most important thing is to have your opponent react to you instead of the other way around). But if you depend on raw reaction time more than anything else, you're a bad player.
See above.