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Fighting Games Weekly | June 24-30 | Twitch, pay your paaAAAaartners for god's sake!

Prototype-03 said:
I don't understand. Are you saying that you don't react in fighting games? As in, you trust in yourself and your moves alone?
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For crying out loud.

If you are consistently putting yourself in a position where you have to react to your opponent's actions in order to win, i.e. consistently allowing your opponent to have the initiative, then you are conceding a lot of important ground in pretty much any fighting game and are, yes, a bad player.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
For crying out loud.

If you are consistently putting yourself in a position where you have to react to your opponent's actions in order to win, i.e. consistently allowing your opponent to have the initiative, then you are conceding a lot of important ground in pretty much any fighting game and are, yes, a bad player.
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I love you.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
For crying out loud.

If you are consistently putting yourself in a position where you have to react to your opponent's actions in order to win, i.e. consistently allowing your opponent to have the initiative, then you are conceding a lot of important ground in pretty much any fighting game and are, yes, a bad player.
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So anyone that get's knocked down by cammy or akuma, are bad players?

Kappa
 
Sixfortyfive said:
For crying out loud.

If you are consistently putting yourself in a position where you have to react to your opponent's actions in order to win, i.e. consistently allowing your opponent to have the initiative, then you are conceding a lot of important ground in pretty much any fighting game and are, yes, a bad player.
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I have to kind of agreed to this.

Most of the time in fighting games you want to put your opponent in a situation where THEY are reacting to you. You just initiate your gameplan and go from there.

Reactions (imo) comes more into play when you're either in the neutral state or defending.

if you're "Always" in a position where you have to react, then it says more about you. There are exceptions but those are exceptions.
 
Ragingnight said:
I have to kind of agreed to this.

Most of the time in fighting games you want to put your opponent in a situation where THEY are reacting to you. You just initiate your gameplan and go from there.

Reactions (imo) comes more into play when you're either in the neutral state or defending.

if you're "Always" in a position where you have to react, then it says more about you. There are exceptions but those are exceptions.
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Completely depends on characters you are fighting against and the character you are playing. :P Shit happens in fighting game matches, and some characters have tools that force players into a state where they have to depend on reacting no matter how good they are.

See every single Litchi match in BB
Sixfortyfive said:
Pick a top tier.
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:lol
 
QisTopTier said:
Completely depends on characters you are fighting against and the character you are playing. :P Shit happens in fighting game matches, and some characters have tools that force players into a state where they have to depend on reacting no matter how good they are.

See every single Litchi match in BB

:lol
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Yeah I agree. I consider those to be exceptions.

Fucking Chie? Yeah she is a big fucking meat-loving exception.
 
If you play slow characters like i tend to go, you're reacting to stuff plenty. Nothing annoys me more in a fighter than facing characters who get to do what they want. It's why I don't like games like Marvel or Skullgirls much.
 
Hey so I don't understand what

"Lex: You now need a bar of Meter to perform the MB version of the Gravity Mine (Down + Down + 3)"

means
 
Warpticon said:
If you can train them, then it's not all reaction...which is my point.
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We do not disagree. I think the extent to which pure reaction plays a part in blocking things is often highly exaggerated.

God's Beard!";66297941] It's probably the only reason I ranked as high as you at NCR. I hadn't played VF in years and I really had no idea what people's chains did so I'd get confused. Same when I had to play your boy Renzo with his Jean. No idea what was going on with those delayed attacks so it was hard enough getting a single round on the guy.[/QUOTE] Well said:
Animation absolutely plays a part in it. See moves like Miguel's db+1 in Tekken, that's a 23 frame low that hits everyone unless they are looking for it, mainly because of the way it's animated.
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Yeah, I sensed as much. I think when this is taken into account, the real number of frames you're required to react to in order to block certain moves becomes significantly smaller.
 
I usually see the reactions argument come up quite a bit on forums (and twitter). And it's mostly about people arguing about raw reaction and reactions mixed with anticipation. Something about not being able to react to quick overheads unless it's one of the things you're expecting to happen at that very moment.

What Warpticon is arguing is the latter (from what I'm reading), which quite a bit of top players feel.
 
Rhapsody said:
I usually see the reactions argument come up quite a bit on forums (and twitter). And it's mostly about people arguing about raw reaction and reactions mixed with anticipation. Something about not being able to react to quick overheads unless it's one of the things you're expecting to happen at that very moment.

What Warpticon is arguing is the latter (from what I'm reading), which quite a bit of top players feel.
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After you see a move once, it's no longer raw reaction at that point.

I was arguing that being able to react is the most important, because even if you know the options they can do, and you guess right, if you dont have the reaction speed down you are screwed vs the faster high low mix up in games.
 
Xevren said:
I didn't even know you could meter burn them? Clearly I suck.
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I've been messing with Lex since the game came out, I'm like 90% sure you haven't been able to meter burn them

I'd be pretty mad at myself for not having tried to MB them this whole time lol
 
QisTopTier said:
After you see a move once, it's no longer raw reaction at that point.

I was arguing that being able to react is the most important, because even if you know the options they can do, and you guess right, if you dont have the reaction speed down you are screwed
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Ah, I see. That's true.

On the topic about raw reactions though, I always feel mixed about it. I do have pretty good reactions but I know I'm only anticipating 2 or 3 things when they're up close. iirc, people like Dacid and SKD argue that raw reaction on BB throws and even P4A's AoAs are borderline to impossible which I don't agree with (especially with ! marks popping up). But I'm always wondering if I'm pairing in anticipation just because they're within distance on using that option.

There's also that adrenaline rush that factors in I guess.
 
It's not just a defensive thing either, reaction works on offense as well when you need to keep your pressure on and they have a way out of the situation. You need to be able to stop and alter what you are doing on the fly.

Knowing what to do in that situation is not reaction based at all, but the actions that take place are.

Unless you are just guessing they are going to do it and do the counter for that situation. Which is part of training a foe to react to things. Playing against people that fall into that trap of things don't require high level reaction.

It's really a mix of different characters, different situations, and different players in the end. I just personally think having really good reaction ability covers you for the long haul.

But maybe I'm just a bad player.
 
QisTopTier said:
It's not just a defensive thing either, reaction works on offense as well when you need to keep your pressure on and they have a way out of the situation. You need to be able to stop and alter what you are doing on the fly.

Knowing what to do in that situation is not reaction based at all, but the actions that take place are.

Unless you are just guessing they are going to do it and do the counter for that situation. Which is part of training a foe to react to things. Playing against people that fall into that trap of things don't require high level reaction.

It's really a mix of different characters, different situations, and different players in the end. I just personally think having really good reaction ability covers you for the long haul.
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Agreed. Most apparent one for me is offense in P4A. Bursts and GCs can be reacted to and punished (2 button dps lol).

All of this is reminding me how much I struggle with netplay. I don't know how people do SF4 online. Things like whiff punishing are just way too hard.
 
Rhapsody said:
I usually see the reactions argument come up quite a bit on forums (and twitter). And it's mostly about people arguing about raw reaction and reactions mixed with anticipation. Something about not being able to react to quick overheads unless it's one of the things you're expecting to happen at that very moment.

What Warpticon is arguing is the latter (from what I'm reading), which quite a bit of top players feel.
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To elucidate this point, do you think you could tech a 30 frame throw on reaction? Probably so, right? Not very threatening, is it?

Now, what if that character has a 30 frame throw that could hit from ANYWHERE ON THE SCREEN? It would be completely unfair and nobody would play the game. But why? I thought 30 frames was easy to react to?

Because it's not just

see thing > do thing

It's

observe situation > deduce options available in that situation > see thing > determine which option is most likely > do thing

Those extra steps take a lot longer than people like to think, and the more options there are to deduce, the harder it is to react. Most of the smartest/best players put the emphasis on the non-see thing/do thing parts because they're easier to control.
 
So I think I figured out the problem Jebailey had with OP. twitch.tv/ceogaming was missing a "g" at the end. I am proud to report it has been fixed.

EDIT: MarlinPie just bodied Insaynne with his B team and he hasn't played Marvel in forever. Gatekeeper status still in full effect.
 
I just got my first smartphone (Droid DNA) - are there any good FGC apps I should think about getting?
Now to figure out how to get apps...

Edit: Holy crap, I just figured out how to see who tweets me on Twitter. So many unread messages...

Shouta said:
Maybe but I think it really wouldn't fit. The pace of a VF exchange happens at break-neck speeds so over exaggerating that stuff would kind of ruin the flow and look of the game. So I don't know how they could do it while keeping that VF essence intact.

And yeah, Tekken looks complicated but it really isn't from a basic standpoint. You gotta break a few mindset things to get started but all the systems are easy to learn. The issue? Like other 3D games, it takes a bit longer to get good at it because there's so much you have to parallel process.
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The two biggest habits to break in Tekken are holding down-back to recovery into a crouching block (I died so many times figuring this out) and getting used to the weird movement. Then it's all about memorizing the frame data on a few thousand moves...

The aesthetics of VF can be changed without altering game flow. For example, a little flash of color or a spark can let people know something happened more easily. Maybe you're right, though, and the game is just better off as-is.

UltraDavid said:
Oh, you mean like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iTT2cAyJtUo#at=36
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Please stop researching the matchup. If you join others and get the character banned, none of this will matter.

enzo_gt said:
So I think I figured out the problem Jebailey had with OP. twitch.tv/ceogaming was missing a "g" at the end. I am proud to report it has been fixed.

EDIT: MarlinPie just bodied Insaynne with his B team and he hasn't played Marvel in forever. Gatekeeper status still in full effect.
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Good man!
 
Karsticles said:
I just got my first smartphone (Droid DNA) - are there any good FGC apps I should think about getting?
Now to figure out how to get apps...
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Do you have a preinstalled app on there called Google Play Store or something? That's your primary app portal.

As for FGC stuff, I think the Twitch app (which I hear isn't that great) is the only real big thing.

Karsticles said:
Edit: Holy crap, I just figured out how to see who tweets me on Twitter. So many unread messages...
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I figured out how to make Twitter lists recently and block retweets from specific people and it kinda changed my life.
 
Lazy vs Crazy said:
https://twitter.com/noobde/status/349656547732897792

They're patching the game on July 2.
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so many patches

MeritBadgesOnSash.jpg



hire your testers goddamnit
 
enzo_gt said:
Do you have a preinstalled app on there called Google Play Store or something? That's your primary app portal.

As for FGC stuff, I think the Twitch app (which I hear isn't that great) is the only real big thing.
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I do, and thank you.

I figured out how to make Twitter lists recently and block retweets from specific people and it kinda changed my life.
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What's a Twitter list?
 
Karsticles said:
The aesthetics of VF can be changed without altering game flow. For example, a little flash of color or a spark can let people know something happened more easily. Maybe you're right, though, and the game is just better off as-is.
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VF5 actually does have flashes of light for counter hits and such. They're much easier to see when actually playing though.
 
Karsticles said:
What's a Twitter list?
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You can make lists of people you follow which makes separate timelines of tweets.Serves as a sort of filter of all the people you follow.

So I can follow everyone I want to but say I only want to read stuff from people in the FGC or people I know IRL at a given time, I can make a list of just those people and switch between those lists for what I want to read ATM. Makes following a ton of people more manageable (not that I follow many in the first place)
 
I like VF because it's not flashy. The softness of everything can make it look closer to a kung fu movie than other games do.

If anything, stage obstacles and uneven ground like DOA4 would be about as crazy as I'd want VF to go. Maybe a greater variety of blocking animations for different attacks. It already has the best throw techs ever.
 
Just picked up p4a, injustice and battle fantasia, lets gooooooo! Battle fantasia kinda feels a bit like sf3 with all these parries and super cancels.
 
soakrates said:
VF5 actually does have flashes of light for counter hits and such. They're much easier to see when actually playing though.
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Good to know. I've actually never played VF. Well, maybe the original back in arcades once...

enzo_gt said:
You can make lists of people you follow which makes separate timelines of tweets.Serves as a sort of filter of all the people you follow.

So I can follow everyone I want to but say I only want to read stuff from people in the FGC or people I know IRL at a given time, I can make a list of just those people and switch between those lists for what I want to read ATM. Makes following a ton of people more manageable (not that I follow many in the first place)
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Cool, thank you.
 
UltraDavid said:
I've been messing with Lex since the game came out, I'm like 90% sure you haven't been able to meter burn them

I'd be pretty mad at myself for not having tried to MB them this whole time lol
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The meter burn is done on hit, after the trap is set. It creates a an explosion that launches.

And it does use meter currently. I don't get the patch.
 
Late on this, but having never played Tekken, I absolutely can not follow a match or understand/appreciate the game at all as a spectator. I played a bit of VF5, but even that at a high level is pretty incomprehensible to be. On the other hand, I think I've played KoF games for a grand total of a couple hours over the course of my life, but I was able to understand (to some extent) and enjoy KoF finals during evo last year. I also enjoy spectating mvc2 even though I've never attempted to play it seriously.

Once you're familiar with a 2D fighter, literacy in that game makes you able to pretty easily follow what is going on in most other 2D fighters (obviously there are limits though). 3D fighters seem more like they require knowledge of that specific game in order to enjoy watching it. They are also more difficult to spectate as a non-player because of the ways the camera can shift around compared to the relatively fixed cameras in 2D fighters. 2D is more comprehensible on a general level even- most people could play a 2D mario game and understand things pretty quickly but would have a more dfficult time if you tossed them into 3D mario- there's a reason the NSMB games outsold the Galaxy series by an enormous margin.

How many people with little to no fighting game knowledge watched and got hype during the famous Daigo parry video? I'm not aware of any 3D fighter having anything remotely equivalent.

The point if this post isn't to bag on 3D fighters or say they inherently worse or anything! I'm just saying for various reasons that 3D game (at least thus far) are less comprehensible than 2D for spectators.
 
Take that Chavelo

uhh I saw this in the stream chat and I'm gonna assume it's real cause why not. But if it's not someone tell me. Also vet your sources

edit- nvm!
 
Yeah on UltraChen it seems like they were looking at that. FunkyP is the 3rd stream it seems, not iPW, which is weird because the CEO Gaming website only lists CEO Gaming, iPW and Capcom Fighters. Will edit OP now.

EDIT: or not?
 
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