AFollowerNotALeader
Member
If you have evidence of that rather than a strongly held belief then perhaps you should be appearing before the jury, because if that is the case he should go to jail.
George Zimmerman (killer of unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin) found not guilty
- Thread starter Dude Abides
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If you have evidence of that rather than a strongly held belief then perhaps you should be appearing before the jury, because if that is the case he should go to jail.
Here's what I think:
If one person is killed by another, the killed individual better have been doing something pretty damn wrong, and the person doing the killing better have been pretty damn innocent (I don't mean in the legal sense, but in the general sense of "not really doing anything wrong" or minding their own business), if the killer is to be found to have no criminal liability.
When you follow someone around and end up killing them in a fight, that also means that someone was followed and killed. And that can't be ignored.
What the hell did trayvon do to deserve death at George's hands? A kid was walking home and minding his own business and some wannabe cop ends up stalking him and killing him for no good reason. Everything trayvon did that night was a reaction to George. WTF right does george have to impose himself on Trayvon like that?
Yep I think if you start actively stalking someone in a predatory manner or in way that can be conceived as predatory then you give up certain rights. I think that's the type of behaviour that triggers a survival instinct to kick in and any danger you find yourself in after that is your own fault and you should be considered the aggressor or attacker.
If I saw someone who I thought was shady and followed them to see what is going on and the guy turns around and attacks me,how is that my fault?
If you know that they know you're following them, and that they're trying to get away from you, and you think they're shady, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? AND WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU LOOK LIKE TO THEM? OR A BYSTANDER?
You're the shady one! You're the one acting suspicious! You're the one making others feel threatened! They're the ones who feel threatened! You're just trying to play cop!
Damn straight they'll punch you! You're still following them after they tried running away!
It's one thing if you're not deliberately following them, but if their perception matches reality? Well that's a different story.
If Zimmerman was just a bystander who was heading in the same direction as Trayvon, and trayvon acted exactly the same, I might accept the defense argument. But he wasn't a bystander. He was doing exactly what trayvon thought he was doing.
gutter_trash
Banned
Are you for real?
You are not a cop.
You are stalking someone.
You are intimidating the person that you are following that may result in a defensive response
Cops were already on the way,I would be making sure I knew where the suspect was so was easy for them to find.
I wouldn't give a damn what they thought because I live there.
Dude Abides
Banned
Is it your position that you have the right to punch anyone who is following you?
He knew cops were on the way, he knew he had a gun, that's why he felt like he could confront Trayvon. That doesn't give him the right to start a fight and then finish it with his gun. Zimmerman is a cowardly piece of shit.
Following? Or stalking? Damn right I have the right to punch someone stalking me and chasing after me when I'm trying to get away from them. That is threatening behavior!
Edit: Zimmerman says Trayvon punched him to start the fight, I don't believe that. I think Zimmerman tried to tackle Martin and was unable to do so with out eating a few punches.
No, but if they're following me in their car, and I move away from the road to get away from them, and then they park their car and continue following me on foot, THEN I'm pretty fucking terrified (and justifiably so).
We're not talking about someone who was simply followed. We're talking about someone who was first followed and then pursued. I'm going to react completely differently in the latter scenario than the former.
Well then you have to look at intent and that should be considered in court but in this case he was clearly stalking the kid. Maybe it's not your job to follow people on the street becauseyou think they look shady?
No but it becomes far more likely someone will react irrationally when they feel their life may be under threat.
That is just the one side of the story.If he started the fight which I highly doubt since he called the cops,sure it's on him.
Dude Abides
Banned
What's the difference between following and stalking? Was Zimmerman ducking behind bushes and skulking around?
Zimmerman very well could have tried to tackle Martin first. Certainly, despite what folks like speedline are saying, much of the evidence differs from Zimmerman's previous account of the events.
So it is your position that physical violence became justified as soon as Zimmerman left his car?
But the law only gives you the right to use force when you reasonably anticipate imminent bodily harm, not when you irrationally do so.
You don't think he was emboldened by the fact he knew cops were on the way? Or that he knew he had a gun if things got out of hand?
He's a coward. That's the only reason he chased Trayvon. He wanted to be a hero, I can totally see him attempting to apprehend Trayvon.
Edit: Trayvon had no idea cops were on the way either. To him, this was life or death. If he knew cops were only seconds away, I'm sure things would be different.
While I'm hoping GZ serves time for this, you're statement is such a generalizing cop out. It's just like racial profiling. It basically pushes people into a corner, stigmatizing those who don't agree you. Calling them something they are not because you have no idea who they are. It's these kinds of statements that make it hard for people to come together on common ground.
CornBurrito
Member
What about those Nazi officers who got away with their crime their entire life. Or is being put in jail at age 94 for the last year or two of your life a significant enough punishment in your mind?
It's possible,but I'm not going to say that is indeed what happened and call him a coward.
lol I couldn't believe she said that, now they have to read it to her! hahaha classic
uh oh caught in another lie.... uhhh yes on the same day I gave two different statements
haha wow
My position is that once Trayvon attempted to disengage from Zimmerman (Zimmerman himself says Trayvon fled from him), and Zimmerman ignored that action, Zimmerman consciously became an aggressor, and Trayvon had the right to defend himself.
Unless Zimmerman made it clear to Trayvon that he was not a threat AND made every attempt to leave but was prevented from doing so, Zimmerman was the aggressor, and had no right to use lethal force against trayvon.
anarckitty
Member
Sweet jesus. This witness is painful.
CornBurrito
Member
So basically karma fucked up for 70+ years and that was the best it could do.
I think the law should take into account having someone actively following you, can possibly be grounds for reasonably anticipating imminent bodily harm, if it doesn't already.
My argument is actively being stalked can provoke primal survival instincts to kick in and thus should come under self-defense laws unless under scrutiny in court it fails to hold up.
BronsonLee
Member
This whole trial/thread, like it was before, is just a freaking minefield for bans and such. Between devil's advocates getting popped (goodnight sweet prince) to calling people racist for having a dissenting opinion, this is a mess.
Also, cursive is retarded as hell, and some people's version of it is basically unreadable. Sometimes when people give me notes at work, it legit looks like a seizure.
Also, cursive is retarded as hell, and some people's version of it is basically unreadable. Sometimes when people give me notes at work, it legit looks like a seizure.
Racism should really stay out of this. So far the only racist thing said during the trial is from the witness saying that Trayvon said during their call. It remains to be seen the outcome,but comments like this do nothing for the discussion. Beside the fact that nobody knows all the facts yet.
I could watch it all day though.
Or, karma eventually caught up to him?
BronsonLee
Member
I'd agree. Once Zimmerman got charged, his part was done.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Considering Trayvon is dead, I'd say he didn't use enough force to defend himself.
anarckitty
Member
"You don't think, creepy ass cracker is racist?"
"No."
Golden
Judge, "Can we please move on from talking about creepy ass crackers?"
"No."
Golden
Judge, "Can we please move on from talking about creepy ass crackers?"
That's twice you've tried to boil someone's reasons for being threatened to one simple act when in both cases a list of circumstances was given. Also your idea of irrational is subjective. Obviously travon's fear wasn't completely unfounded as he's the dead one.
I'm not so sure that poster was simply playing devil's advocate, but I guess it doesn't matter anyhow
polyh3dron
Banned
So basically, this girl lied about her age and lied to avoid attending a wake, and Trayvon called a guy following him a cracker and nigger, and therefore we must conclude that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon in self defense.
This shit is fucking ridiculous. How can you pursue an unarmed person with a gun and kill them, and then claim self defense? I don't care if Trayvon got some shots in on Zim before the murder, hell I'd do everything I could to defend myself too if some random dude was fucking with me and he had a gun.
This shit is fucking ridiculous. How can you pursue an unarmed person with a gun and kill them, and then claim self defense? I don't care if Trayvon got some shots in on Zim before the murder, hell I'd do everything I could to defend myself too if some random dude was fucking with me and he had a gun.
That's basically the argument, yes.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
He didn't call him a Nigger, but the gist of what I see people posting in here is: since Trayvon is black and used slang, it means he is a thug. :/
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