George Zimmerman (killer of unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin) found not guilty

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Good witness. Don't think he "helped" anyone though.

- Tm was on top of GZ face to face, like a struggle.
- At first john saw them on the grass then they moved to the concrete. Once they were on the concrete john heard some "helps" (not 100% sure who it was) and told them he was going to call 911. This connects with what GZ said.
- John didn't hear anything coming from TM. ("shut up" "you're going to die tonight mother fucker" etc)
- John did NOT see any type of hitting. Just a "arms moving down" type of motion. I wish they asked him to explain a little more. But he didn't see TM punching him or smashing his head.
- John did NOT see GZ trying to get up from underneath TM. Just assumed he was trying.
- When John looked out the window after the shot, he saw TM's body face down.

So part of his testimony connects with what GZ said and some doesn't. All this proves is that at some point TM got the upper hand in the struggle. The "help" is still giving me a hard time. At first i believe it was TM. But then sometimes i believe it's GZ pretending to be the victim. It just wouldn't make sense to me why GZ would scream help but TM wouldn't say anything at all. Usually in a fight when you have the upper hand you're not screaming for help, so that make sense. But i would at at least think he would try.

Since I honestly believe Rachael. My belief is GZ followed TM very closely (which means GZ lied). GZ started the confrontation (which is HUGE and completely contradicts what GZ said). Now who threw the first punch or grab no one really knows except for GZ. He said TM sucker punched him which wouldn't connect with what Rachael said. So I believe he lied about that as well. Since Rachael did say TM yelled "get off".Let's just assume GZ went to grab him (which would make sense) and started the struggle to the floor. TM fights back, gets the upper hand. Mostly likely lands a few hits. GZ yells for help and shoots him. Then i assume pushes him off or TM on his own falls face down on his face.

So imo this whole trial is on Rachael's testimony. Either they believe her or they don't This is if GZ doesn't testify at least. But i highly doubt he will since most of his original statements doesn't connect with a few witnesses. Trials not over but i personally believe he's guilty with the facts so far.
 
anarckitty said:
I plan on this being my last post in this thread. With that being said, my opinion on this tragedy is that it all boils down to something as simple as miscommunication.

Zimmerman was following Martin. Martin got sick of being followed. Martin confronted Zimmerman about what the phuck was up with him following him. Zimmerman probably didn't understand what Martin said and proceeded to get closer to Martin. Martin took this as a sign of aggression. Martin thinking a fight is about to ensue decides to act first and ask questions later. Zimmerman fights back. Martin is beating Zimmerman's ass. Fearing for his life, Zimmerman shoots Martin.

The witness said something along the lines of after the gunshot it looked like Zimmerman was trying to give Martin CPR. I'm sorry, but if your goal is to just kill someone because you have an attitude problem you're not going to immediately turn around and try to perform CPR.

I would be really surprised if Zimmerman is found guilty of 2nd degree murder. If anything he'll probably be found guilty of manslaughter.

It is a terrible tragedy. A 17 year old young man is dead, and a 29 year old has to live with the fact that he killed another person for the rest of his life.
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Sorry, but this is dumb. Why the hell are people still saying that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman? He had already run away from the guy. It's almost pitch black outside, it's rainy, he's being followed, and he's about 70 yards away from his father's girlfriends house. Why would anyone in that scenario stop, turn around, walk back, and confront a stranger following them under those conditions? The most likely scenario is that Z tried to grab and subdue him and TM struggled (after all, Z did tell the police to call him once they got there probably thinking that he would've already had the suspect "in custody" by then). They rolled around a bit while Z still trying to subdue him and TM was fighting/struggling to break free while calling for help. Z likely panicked (probably realizing that he was already in too deep at that point) and shot him after all of the cries for help and the attention it brought. Him getting up and walking around afterwards (as witnesses describe) with one hand on his head and the other hand on his hip was mostly likely when he came up with that bull shit story. He didn't attempt to give TM CPR or he would've said so just to make himself look better.
 
Measley said:
I'm merely pointing out the double standard here. Zimmerman's actual violent past is almost never heard about, yet Martin's "gangsta" lifestyle is brought up constantly. Almost as if being an urban youth is a capitol crime, punishable by death.
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According to Fox News...

What bothers me is people are buying into this shit because if stuff like "they found marijuana in his bag!" And it creates this confirmation bias that peoe have about urban youth. They go "oh! He smoked weed! He must be like those guys from NWA!"

I also feel like this has garnered a massive amount of attention because it happened to be death by a fire arm. It's no secret that some people in America are almost fetishistic about their fire arms. A lot of people are completely willing to buy this idea that Zimmerman drew his weapon because there was no alternative. He was "taking out a bad guy" so-to-speak. This same logic is used when school shootings happen and people are like "If only someone else was there with a gun!" If Zimmerman stabbed him I think this trial would be very different.
 
DragonSworne said:
I don't understand this part.

What evidence is there to say TM came back? I don't understand the timeline.
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There's not really—but logic dictates he either lingered near the T intersection (most likely) or came back a few minutes later (as that's where he was shot). At 7:12 GZ leaves his car and seems to run to the shortcut/T pathway (not a long distance at all) and says he lost him. This is the point where the dispatcher said he shouldn't follow him. At this point GZ is within a few steps of where all of the tragedy eventually went down, but TM is nowhere to be seen.

Two minutes passed with GZ still on the phone. Around 7:14 his call ended and we don't know what happened after that. At least two minutes passed while GZ made no further progress in the direction that TM was going.

So GZ was convinced TM had gotten away at this point and had TM continued running away it appears he would have. For whatever reason (whether he felt trapped or simply decided to stick around) he doesn't seem to have continued on.

Again, this doesn't mean TM did anything wrong, but I was responding to someone who implied they were in a heated foot chase and TM was desperately running away.
 
RoninChaos said:
What bothers me is people are buying into this shit because if stuff like "they found marijuana in his bag!" And it creates this confirmation bias that peoe have about urban youth. They go "oh! He smoked weed! He must be like those guys from NWA!".
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I agree but you have to admit that the pic of him holding a gun with a finger on the trigger isn't exactly the best look for a 17 year old kid...

130523170713-02-trayvon-0523-horizontal-gallery.jpg
 
Cerrius said:
I agree but you have to admit that the pic of him holding a gun with a finger on the trigger isn't exactly the best look for a 17 year old kid...

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130523170713-02-trayvon-0523-horizontal-gallery.jpg[/I.MG][/QUOTE]

Irrelevant.

We can post pics of him eating and riding a horse or walking through a country area too. Those were released at the same time.

But instead we focus on things completely irrelevant in this case that we can't identify with.
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The TM was running away stance doesn't make sense.

I know what GZ said, but again saying someone is running away doesn't necessarily mean they are running full blast.

When you look at a timeline and to where it all took place, if TM ran away the scene wouldn't have been where it was.. he would have been home.
 
Prosecutions case continues to be very weak. I don't personally know what happened but I don't understand how these witness accounts (which vary and contradict) create a situation of "beyond a reasonable doubt".
 
Measley said:
The very small minority. I've seen plenty of pictures with white kids holding guns and rifles.

They're "hunting" though, so its all good.
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Handguns look bad on anybody. Those are meant for only one reason.

Assault weapons also are scary. I have some friends who own crazy guns after they caught the Ron Paul virus. It bugs me the fuck out.
 
NervousXtian said:
The TM was running away stance doesn't make sense.

I know what GZ said, but again saying someone is running away doesn't necessarily mean they are running full blast.

When you look at a timeline and to where it all took place, if TM ran away the scene wouldn't have been where it was.. he would have been home.
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That's Zimmerman's version of events. Martin could very well have been walking home, since he was talking to Jentel on the phone.

Doesn't change things. You could be walking, yet still be afraid or on edge.
 
NervousXtian said:
The TM was running away stance doesn't make sense.

I know what GZ said, but again saying someone is running away doesn't necessarily mean they are running full blast.

When you look at a timeline and to where it all took place, if TM ran away the scene wouldn't have been where it was.. he would have been home.
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That's sort of what I'm realizing today after reviewing everything. My assumption a year ago from the 911 call reaction was that GZ continued chasing him long after the 911 call ended, but looking at the actual crime scene, he never really ventured far away from where he parked his truck.

We still don't know what happened there behind those houses, but there doesn't seem to have been much of a foot chase.
 
GrandHarrier said:
Prosecutions case continues to be very weak. I don't personally know what happened but I don't understand how these witness accounts (which vary and contradict) create a situation of "beyond a reasonable doubt".
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Pfft...One person is dead with skittles in his pocket and the other guy had a gun. The defense (as is his job) is trying to muddy the waters because he has no choice but this is a pretty open and shut case....the prosecution needs to keep that simple fact forefront in the minds of the jury.
 
PotatoeMasher said:
These look to have been taken in the police cruiser:
vsix+


I think I remember people thinking his injuries were fake or something though. That's where this case started getting a little 9/11 truth to me and I had to bow out of following it however many months ago.
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I know this is late, and again, I am not an expert, but these were taken on scene right?

If he was under Travon, fighting for his life, having his head bashed into the ground wouldn't the blood be more smeary and less 'obeying the laws of gravity if one were leaning over someone else'?
 
NervousXtian said:
The TM was running away stance doesn't make sense.

I know what GZ said, but again saying someone is running away doesn't necessarily mean they are running full blast.

When you look at a timeline and to where it all took place, if TM ran away the scene wouldn't have been where it was.. he would have been home.
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I explained earlier that when i was younger (16) and was chased for no reason by a car. My instinct was to run and HIDE. not to run and hope i reach home in time before something happens.

This could explain the lingering. He could have been hiding after his short 10-20 second run based on the Timeline of the 911 phone call. which would explain the "lingering"

PotatoeMasher said:
That's sort of what I'm realizing today after reviewing everything. My assumption a year ago from the 911 call reaction was that GZ continued chasing him long after the 911 call ended, but looking at the actual crime scene, he never really ventured far away from where he parked his truck.

We still don't know what happened there behind those houses, but there doesn't seem to have been much of a foot chase.
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Again, Running away doesn't need to mean running for 1 minute or 2 minutes or 4 minutes. He could have run from 5 seconds. The fact remains he ran, the reason that there is was an altercation is because Zim got out of his car and chased after Trayvon on foot.
 
Fiction said:
I know this is late, and again, I am not an expert, but these were taken on scene right?

If he was under Travon, fighting for his life, having his head bashed into the ground wouldn't the blood be more smeary and less 'obeying the laws of gravity if one were leaning over someone else'?
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He had been upright for minutes by then, I believe.
 
Fiction said:
I know this is late, and again, I am not an expert, but these were taken on scene right?

If he was under Travon, fighting for his life, having his head bashed into the ground wouldn't the blood be more smeary and less 'obeying the laws of gravity if one were leaning over someone else'?
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If he's gotten up and walked off (like the current witness is saying), and the wounds are still open and flowing, then yes, "gravity" would take effect.
 
3rdman said:
Pfft...One person is dead with skittles in his pocket and the other guy had a gun. The defense (as is his job) is trying to muddy the waters because he has no choice but this is a pretty open and shut case....the prosecution needs to keep that simple fact forefront in the minds of the jury.
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That simple fact isn't enough to prove it was murder.
 
vas_a_morir said:
He had been upright for minutes by then, I believe.
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But my point being that he wouldn't have had time to wash his head before then, correct? If the injury occurred while he was laying on his back and struggling, I would assume there would be a different blood pattern. There would be blood all over the back of his head, not just a few perfect little rivulets ya know?
 
If Zimmerman was the one screaming, he was awfully calm 20 seconds later when the officers showed up and he had the presence of mind to put the gun back in his holster and speak so calmly.
 
Fiction said:
But my point being that he wouldn't have had time to wash his head before then, correct? If the injury occurred while he was laying on his back and struggling, I would assume there would be a different blood pattern. There would be blood all over the back of his head, not just a few perfect little rivulets ya know?
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I dunno. Unless this means he did it himself, I don't think it matters.

Here's my question: After this trial, where does George go if Acquitted? I'd bail the country day one.
 
vas_a_morir said:
I dunno. Unless this means he did it himself, I don't think it matters.

Here's my question: After this trial, where does George go if Acquitted? I'd bail the country day one.
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I just find it a bit odd, seeing those pictures and hearing about a vicious struggle. Again, not an expert, but to me it looks like either A) Those wounds occurred while he was on top of Martin (maybe Martin used his fingernails) or B) They were self inflicted after the fact.

Or they started bleeding after the fight was over and he was already standing? Which would be weird.
 
BloodMoney said:
wut?
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This is purely anecdotal so take it for what it's worth but when the gun control controversy was at its peak a month or two ago Facebook seemed to be awash with mostly white men and women proudly brandishing handguns, shotguns, semi-automatic rifles, etc. Posing, aiming at the camera and/or generally trying to look hardcore.

Now, imagine the responses something like that might elicit if instead of well-to-do looking white people brandishing weapons it were black men and women. Hell, look at what a single picture of Martin's hand wrapped around a handgun is causing some people to conclude about him. I haven't heard a single person suggest that maybe he was just a patriotic gun enthusiast.
 
He was calm when the first neighbor arrived and told the him to call his wife. He was trying to explain to her what happened and George says just tell her "I just shot someone". Very matter of fact. This witness should be giving good testimony.
 
Fiction said:
I just find it a bit odd, seeing those pictures and hearing about a vicious struggle. Again, not an expert, but to me it looks like either A) Those wounds occurred while he was on top of Martin (maybe Martin used his fingernails) or B) They were self inflicted after the fact.

Or they started bleeding after the fight was over and he was already standing? Which would be weird.
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Should be easy to tell, if there was any blood collected/marked on the ground where he theoretically is having his head impact the ground.
 
Zoe said:
That simple fact isn't enough to prove it was murder.
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How about manslaughter? Again, the defense is just muddying the waters...GZ ran him down. GZ instigated the whole damn thing. GZ was told NOT to pursue him. GZ was not a member of the community watch. He is in fact nothing more than a moron with a hero complex.
 
It's like looking at a mirror of myself 20 years from now (the current witness)

lol collect himself, really railing on that isn't he
 
I really don't like listening to West doing any questioning. He repeats the same damn questions like 10 times this dude isn't changing his story.
 
A brief good moment for the prosecution, West trying to establish that a sign saying Neighborhood Watch tells visitors they are being watched, witness says that he understands it to mean people should call 911.
 
Dude Abides said:
A brief good moment for the prosecution, West trying to establish that a sign saying Neighborhood Watch tells visitors they are being watched, witness says that he understands it to mean people should call 911.
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The sign is, though, totally up there as a deterrent for would-be criminals. That's why they put them up.
 
vas_a_morir said:
The sign is, though, totally up there as a deterrent for would-be criminals. That's why they put them up.
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So what? West was trying to suggest that the sign somehow justifies Zimmerman playing cop and Martin was on notice that weirdos might follow him, and the witness shot that down.
 
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