George Zimmerman (killer of unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin) found not guilty
- Thread starter Dude Abides
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faceless007
Member
Zimmerman had pain in the buttocks, lol.
His head was repeatedly smashed into concrete and he just got 2 minor cuts?
His head was repeatedly smashed into concrete and he just got 2 minor cuts?
The wording of the statute just makes it a bit easier for prosecution to prove that there isn't reasonable doubt of self defense being applicable. They still need evidence that contradicts the defense's claims, which is what they are trying to do by establishing that the wounds were minor. Unfortunately none of the witnesses appear to have witnessed the whole thing and the ones that saw something appear to favor the defense.
BloodMoney
Banned
Reasonable doubt that he didn't murder him in cold blood? That just makes no sense to me. He's guilty of killing Martin, he clams it wasn't murder and that he defended himself. We need proof that he did just that, IMO.
I'm watching you wazowski...
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
This image makes me feel angry.
No, the legal system is set up to give the defendant the benefit of the doubt. They don't have to 'prove' anything to the same standard the prosecution does.
Along with proof that Zimmerman did get fucked up to the degree that the gunshot was neccesary.
No, self defense is an affirmative defense so the burden is on the defendant to prove it. It's based on evidence beyond the prosecution's case, which the defendant has conceded (that you killed someone)
edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_defense
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
How does it look now? When I was younger I accidentally broke a friends nose. It never looked the same since
Dude Abides
Banned
We've been over this a million times in this thread and this is not the law in Florida.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=efqfqrBMFEJH36P0OpVuyQ&bvm=bv.48572450,d.dmg
methane47
Member
This picture is rage enducing...
that said.. does that first comment say "Your dad old as hell ho"
lol
True, guess that's where "innocent until proven guilty" comes from. It's just weird to me because we know he killed Trayvon, I can't wrap my head around that...
empty vessel
Member
In most places, but not in Florida. States are free to assign burdens of proof on affirmative defenses however they like. Most put it on the defense (which makes sense). Florida doesn't.
Edit: Late. (I was going to make the same correction as you did, sangreal, but also note that Florida is anomalous.)
Dude Abides
Banned
I apologize for assuming you knew where this trial is occurring.
Except that's not how the justice system works in this country.
He killed Trayvon Martin. Whether or not he is guilty of a crime is another thing, and the state has the burden of proving their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
I apologize for assuming you understand how to follow a conversation. The quote feature exists for a reason
Dude Abides
Banned
Yes, and if we quote your post, which I did, we see a blanket, unqualified, and incorrect statement that the defendant has to prove self defense.
Xenon
Member
I KNOW! They could have got those for forty-nine cent eachs at McDonalds.
Seriously though, it's his job. It may seems callous but he probably deals with stuff like murder all the time. You shouldn't project the events on the people who have to deal it.
From that wiki:
The defense does not have to meet the same standard of proof as the prosecution does, even in affirmative defense cases. And in Florida's case it's even a lower bar to claim self defense, as people have stated.
My logistics is telling me that Zimmerman could have possibly been aware of this law, and used it for his benefit and his defense for a senseless act...
There is no evidence, I cannot make that claim with assurance.
But my gut is giving me an inclination...
The police have ruined this trial. The prosecution has ruined this trial. The witness' have ruined this trial... and the only ones who truly suffer if Trayvon's family. Their son slain just for walking home...
What kind of sense does this all make? It utterly confuses me to no end.
"We beat stupidity" Fuck that, we have a dead child and mourning parents. That's your tone regarding something tragic as this?
Yeah its his job alright, get those fat stacks to protect the innocent from a just act of self defense from an unarmed kid.
mercenar1e
Member
and the defense already had her say that its a possibility that when zimmerman was on the ground blood could have gone to his throat.. they are pouncing on the prosecution lol damn
You repeated to someone else what I was trying to get at:
My point is, there are two avenues they could try to get the tapes in: for impeachment, or to assert the defendant-incriminating truth of the matter. If they tried to get the tapes in for impeachment, that's irrelevant. If they tried to get the tapes in to assert the truth of the matter, not only would they not want to do that, but I don't think they could get them in because his account is not self-incriminating if true.
polyh3dron
Banned
Objection: Speculation
Sustained.
Come the fuck on, prosecution.
edit: fucking finally, thank you. Now spam that shit.
faceless007
Member
Geez, defense did their homework on the medical aspect. He knows exactly what he needs to get the witness to say. Shameful for the prosecution.
Edit: Oh, you object now, five minutes after she opened the door to speculating like that. Good going.
Edit: Oh, you object now, five minutes after she opened the door to speculating like that. Good going.
polyh3dron
Banned
This whole line of questioning is speculation. Holy fuck.
Xenon
Member
Well it was his dumb ass daughter who said it. I was talking about celebrating a good day. Not the stupid twitter bullshit.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
I was going to say. I am not watching but reading your guys responses, it sounds like major leading and speculation is going on. :/
polyh3dron
Banned
NOTHING says "concrete" god dammit.
Yeah...this is hard to watch.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Leading is okay during cross examination.
PotatoeMasher
Member
This is a cross-examination though, right?
edit: beaten by vas, of course
They are mopping this trial up simply in cross-examining prosecution witnesses.
edit: beaten by vas, of course
They are mopping this trial up simply in cross-examining prosecution witnesses.
polyh3dron
Banned
He's asking if these cuts are consistent with someone having their head smashed on concrete and she just keeps saying "it COULD be"
What's wrong with that?
faceless007
Member
Not specifically for determining the cause of injuries, no. They established she's a licensed physician's assistant.
They're getting around it by having her say it would be consistent with concrete. She's mostly saying "It could be, among other things." Still, you'd think she would been coached not to volunteer so much.
polyh3dron
Banned
Speculation. It also could be from something else. There are so many other possibilities. He could've hit his own head after falling.
They aren't establishing what the cause is, just introducing reasonable doubt.
They asked and she answered the injuries could be from concrete. I don't understand what the problem is.
I'd hope they're smarter than that. Seems like such a weak argument, at least to someone who is educated on the subject. "Training MMA" 3 times a week isn't going to replace a gun for self defense, or even designed for self defense.
It isn't necessarily going to stop you from getting bested in a street fight either, even if you do outweigh someone by 40 lbs.
PotatoeMasher
Member
Talking about his BMI being obese when he was 120 pounds lighter. That couldn't have been fun.
yeah almost leading there, shouldn't he be asking what could cause this injury and let her formulate the response as to what.
Then it's the prosecutions job to bring up evidence of that "something else." If it was self inflicted, or occured after the incident, or before the incident, or if it occured from TM, but not in the way the defense is pleading (say, scratching at GZ as GZ was on top, which could be proven if there is skin found underneath TM's fingernails).
Got to do something, with facts, to say "it could be/was this other thing caused the swelling/cuts, not getting your head beaten into concrete."
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