faceless007
Member
...Again with who would foot the medical bills if he sought further medical attention. Defense asked that of the cop too. What are they getting at with that?
George Zimmerman (killer of unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin) found not guilty
- Thread starter Dude Abides
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Dude Abides
Banned
Christ, stop letting him ask her questions about Zimmerman's intent or state of mind.
Reasoning for why there is no full medical documentation regarding the true extent of GZ's injuries...
If I was arrested and prosecuted by the state of Florida I don't think I would be too worried. Are they just going through the motions?
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Dude, I haven't been watching the trial in any capacity, but is it that the prosecution is just not capable from what you've seen so far?
empty vessel
Member
I read lots of criminal trial transcripts from, let's just say, less robust jurisdictions. It's basically just a stream of objectionable testimony that is never objected to (although usually it is the prosecution getting it all in). I'm convinced most verdicts are based more on unreliable, inadmissible evidence than on reliable, admissible evidence.
Dude Abides
Banned
Doing it again right now with no objection. "Did you get a feel he just wanted to get back to work?" Fucking Christ.
They have a tough case but the defense is running rings around them.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Crazy. Guess I shouldn't get my law info from tv huh? lol
So far it seems they were given a good case and have fumbled their way through it. It could still go either way though.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Didn't he get tons of money in donations? What was the timeline for that? I assume that is how he has been able to pay for such good lawyers.
Dude Abides
Banned
Now the lead prosecutor appears to have woken up slightly.
JCreasy
Member
Seriously. Very disappointing.
Dude Abides
Banned
Well, now the prosecution is leading all over the place with no objection, so incompetence abounds everywhere.
He wants to say that certain bumps are pre-existant? Could be proven true or false depending on giving him a on the spot buzz cut. Or if they have evidence of a previous altercation or that he had cosmetic surgery (removal of calcium deposits?)
faceless007
Member
Well, that was after the case became national news, months after the shooting.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What did he do right?
The benefit of the doubt on whether or not they did something. Not the benefit of the doubt on whether their actions were criminal in nature.
If I coordinate a stock purchase to occur within 30 seconds following a press release that causes my company's shares to skyrocket, that is insider trading, even though at the time of my purchase, the info was publically available.
In this case, there is no doubt that I used insider information for financial gain, even if the transaction occurred after the info was public.
On the other hand, If my purchase was simply the automated execution of a stock option at a strike price I had put in place months earlier, independent of the information just released, I'd be able to cast doubt on the accusation.
In this case, the doubt comes from the context of the killing and encounter, not the existence of injuries on George.
otherwise any inside trader could simply deny accusations and be acquitted, since we can't read minds and know for sure why they made a transaction.
George needs to justify his actions in the face of the consequences trayvon suffered because of them.
PotatoeMasher
Member
It feels like the defense is aiming to prove beyond reasonable doubt and the prosecution is settling for trying to poke holes. If the burden of proof were on the defense this might be an effective approach.
polyh3dron
Banned
I am seriously in disbelief that it's a foregone conclusion that Zim shot an unarmed kid and now the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't self defense. Imagine every murder case had to be prosecuted this way. I mean Trayvon could've been trying to defend himself from some crazy dude who was following him.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Damn, gotta head out for the night. I appreciate this thread immensely though. It's saved me from investing too much in what could ultimately be very disappointing.
mercenar1e
Member
are we all in agreement that the prosecution is terrible?
Portugeezer
Member
When the prosecutor got up he seemed a bit too cocky but he didn't accomplish much.
I'm watching here: http://www.wesh.com/news/central-fl...ed-coverage/watch-george-zimmerman-trial-live
-Pyromaniac-
Member
CNN is showing it, there's probably a link too, don't have it though.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
check OP, last link
I'm reading so many twitter comments about how this case, if Zimmerman walks, will cause them to lose faith in the justice system. As if the thousands of cases where the people who can afford the best defense attorneys or other cases didn't already do that.
Do you guys have a link to where you're watching it live?
Edit: Nvm, found it.
Do you guys have a link to where you're watching it live?
Edit: Nvm, found it.
faceless007
Member
WTF? Was the prosecution really trying to ask her about Martin's gunshot wound? Are they really that dumb?
PotatoeMasher
Member
These two people didn't know each other beforehand, so it's way more up in the air. That's not the case when a family member of friend is accused of murdering someone in a fit of rage or after years of abuse.
mercenar1e
Member
Has the prosecution even put forward an alternate explanation for Zimmerman's injuries?
It seems they are focusing 100% on minimizing them and trying to say they weren't that bad, which seems completely irrelevant if they aren't challenging Zimmerman on the details of how the injuries were sustained, which is the important part IMO.
Also that last question by the DA about a gunshot wound to the heart was bush league.
Xenon
Member
That's where other factors usually come into play. Lack of motive, the fact that Zimmerman called the police before the incident happened, and since George Zimmerman was injured all come into play.
Lets flip this around lets say Treyvon got George's gun and killed Zimmerman in the scuffle. Would Trevon be presumed guilty and have to prove his innocence?
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
It's in the OP.
It's the result of civil religion+ literalism, which removes common sense from the situation. Unfortunately, it rears its head in any modern populist movement or politicized thing in America :/
They would have threw that fucking book at him. Maybe even Murder 1.
Yeah, I went there. There is no justice in this country. Just the rich and the richer.
Dog Eat Dog. Don't get your food taken.
Portugeezer
Member
I don't get it?
Xenon
Member
Wow, you went there. Yeah he would have most likely have been held, I agree with that. But you didn't answer my question.
BTW: When the defense was questioning the ninja turtle I think they were trying to set up the fact the George was walking into a possible hostile situation and that Treyvon's cel could have been perceived as a gun.
To answer your question, I fully believe he'd be tried with the notion of being guilty and having to prove his innocence.
The defense asked the medical witness if [Zimmerman] "Stopping the attack allowed him to survive it"
Essentially claiming that if GZ didnt kill Trayvon, It would have been GZ who would have died. Alluding to the whole getting his head slammed on concrete thing.
It betrays my intellegence.
Dude Abides
Banned
Objected to a question to the medical examiner about what she thought Zimmerman was trying to do.
User 100115
Banned
I agree. It likely would have already gone to trial, he'd be convicted and serving the max sentence.
The legal theory behind it is that a justified action is not an illegal action, and the State must prove beyond a reasonable doubt each element of an illegal action. So any context that makes your action legal must be disproven beyond a reasonable doubt, as an unwritten element of every crime is "unjustified."
Not every state has written their laws according to this theory, but that's the idea behind it. In Florida, for defenses like this, the defendant must provide some amount of evidence to corroborate the context he's claiming, but once he's met that small burden, the state must prove that his legal action was actually illegal, beyond a reasonable doubt.
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