QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Look at the skills that chain on dragoon
They directly tie into giving them damage boost and reduce the peircing resistance of their targets all built into their main dps skills
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Beta Phase 3 Impression: Phase 4 August
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Look at the skills that chain on dragoon
They directly tie into giving them damage boost and reduce the peircing resistance of their targets all built into their main dps skills
Riposte
Member
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As2LEIW2Tu89dEFsSzJFT29EV1JJaVdqZkhGRlVESlE#gid=0
Hmm, that's two less stats to worry about...
Hmm, that's two less stats to worry about...
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's some really shitting haste scaling :lol
We were doing so well, if we just had more time I bet we could've done it.
Ah... NMs. Yeah, special drops were nice because they added very unique armors/items (that this game really needs, but so far it's kinda early to judge) and in-game objectives.
But on other hand, no, fuck them. Spending hours sitting in a place only see it get claimed by a bot or to claim it only for it to drop nothing (Over and over and over... I've been there. Many times. With many NMs.) is just... ugh, I have no words for it. Not to mention NMs that required multiple people and you had to forced half linkshell to come with you.
Something akin to Sky/Sea Gods now, it would definitely be more cool.
Xux
Member
I'd say Leaping Lizzy was probably one of the lowest points in my life. Two weeks of "I'm gonna be self sufficient and well geared!" watching out for that thing.
It took like two or three years after I quit that game before my heart wouldn't drop at seeing the text anywhere. People always ask me "Why are you so calm and patient all the time? Are you on Ritalin or something?" And I'm, like, "No, I played and sucked at FFXI."
Definitely a fan of ARR's elements of "doing stuff" and "good design" and "fun" over FFXI's.
It took like two or three years after I quit that game before my heart wouldn't drop at seeing the text anywhere. People always ask me "Why are you so calm and patient all the time? Are you on Ritalin or something?" And I'm, like, "No, I played and sucked at FFXI."
Definitely a fan of ARR's elements of "doing stuff" and "good design" and "fun" over FFXI's.
Thanks for this research. It's really a shame how horrible this scales and I really hope it is something they change in the future. I tend to get frustrated with the 2.5 sec GCD.
aliencowz7
Member
I camped Hoo Mjuu for that staff at a pretty early level and got 13 straight claims without sleeping or logging off before it dropped. It was pretty much the most miserable I have ever been and I can't believe I was dumb enough to do it :l
Didn't even make THAT much money off of it in the long run so it was in no way worth it.
theSlacker
Member
You do something like that and it becomes mandatory enough for most people. For example when all the rarespawns were part of achievements in outlands and northrend in WoW you became much less likely to randomly come across them like you would the old world ones because there would be people camping them now.
Talking about a different theoretical situation here where if they added just non fate NMs that just didn't drop anything amazing so there would be no intensive to camp them. Something to give flavor to the world while not promoting dickass behavior.
Lancer currently seems to lack the extra bits of utility/burst survivability that pure dps is giving in most mmorpgs to make up for the lack of full survivability, but it will defiantly do more dps then MRD. Will seem a little unbalanced in the beta phases because at the current cap a MRD will be able to solo more while living though stuff and a LNC will just get the shit beat out of them while not yet doing too much more damage. Or that is my experience with the two classes. Also will not help that a LNC's one spamable aoe only does 100 potency unless you use a side attack move before it.
Warrior skills will alter the players playstyle while the Dragoon skills are just more damage on cooldowns that are far too long, or a pair of utility skills that are also on too long of cooldowns. Take for example the 3 damaging jumps. The biggest is an aoe with 250 potency on a 5 god damn minute cooldown. The advancing jump does 170 potency on a 3 minute cooldown(retreating jump that does no damage is also on a 3 minute cooldown). And lastly the normal Jump with 180 potency is every minute. So basically the two really fun moves that change the way you play and "feel" cool are on 3 minute cooldowns. The two single target do as much or less then "Impulse Drive". While warrior basically gets an entire new combo point system with a rolling buff and finishers. So yeah, Dragoon will defiantly do more damage, but I'm sure Warrior will be more fun. Unless there is a whole bunch of aoe shit going on then Warrior will probably still do more damage.
Now to continue going completely off on a tangent, here are some things that I think would improve Dragoon. Remove the damage from spineshatter and lower the cooldown to 45-60 seconds. Make power surge into some sort of toggable stance that does something for damage at a cost instead of the current task of just another single skill buff. And then make elusive jump remove you completely from the hate list. That's really all. Well and remove the side attack requirement from heavy thrust. Haven't seen enough of the new Chaos Thrust and Doomspike to really make a comment on them even though they do look weaker then 2 end game skills should be. So yeah. Not that I expect any of this to be what happens, just some ideas that came to my head after looking at all the Job's skills.
Well, I'd say "most people" is a pretty huge exaggeration; these type of things don't draw anywhere near the types of crowds you get going for rares that drop items that can be sold. Pandaria has 56 of them and I run across them all the time.
So no, it doesn't become mandatory. Instead, it becomes a fun side activity for people interested in hunting these types of things. I'd say that's a good thing; the more people have to do out in the game world the better.
theSlacker
Member
Got to remember that a 300 potency attack by, say, a Lancer will do more damage then a 300 potency attack from a Gladiator since a Lancer is likely to have a higher normal attack value. A danger with comparing skills across classes just based on potency. The final attack of a Lancer's primary chain also does 300 btw.
Sorry I don't have any experience with Pandaria. Just know that for the Northrend and Outlands ones the best time to hunt for them was after the expansions since most people were done with them. Through leveling normally I only saw about 3 in outlands and 2 in northrend, and I'm the kind of guy that loves going everywhere and doing every quest.
Really my ideal vision for none fate nms are as something that gives flavor to the world, like the old world rarespawns in WoW, not something that is ever really sought after or hunted. Just a happy surprise to see a unique mob.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Let's not forget the 10% damage boost they will have going at all times, and the 10% piercing armor reduction on monsters from lancers as well.
Xux
Member
I meant relative to auto-attack damage. Spirits Within and Full Thrust will be like doing three auto-attacks inbetween two normal ones. It just seemed like a small spike compared to 1.0.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Ignore leves when you level your main class as much as possible, they are not finite you just get so many a day and they stack up.
Oh, ok. So I would use leves for side classes and jobs. Would that apply to the other class I'd have to level up for my main job too?
theSlacker
Member
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
You don't level up jobs, jobs are just something you activate from your class. Your job level is directly tied to your class level.
So for example leveling Arcanist will actually give you two level 50 jobs
Wait...what? How is that possible?
Mr. Bubble
Member
Not to mention that there are Bounty monsters that randomly appear only when doing a levequest in certain areas.
Killing Bounty monsters is required for completing Hunting Logs (particularly the GC Hunting Logs). Completing the GC Hunting Log is required for promoting into a higher tier of ranks. If you're unlucky and you do not find the bounty monster you need, you're screwed (for promotion) until you get more leve allowances.
theSlacker
Member
It has 2 "Jobs" attacked to it. What he said simplified it since you will still have to do the job quests for each along the way to get the skills, and will only be able to equip one job at a time though.
Honestly this is another problem with multiple "jobs" per base class. Will only get to have the fun of leveling for one of them.
I found the easiest way to look for the rare ones was in groups. Even when you have exhausted your leves you can still participate in someone else's and still get credit for the rare mob when it appears.
Alexanderon
Neo Member
And I imagine this is exactly what we'll get. Many FATEs come in the form where you fight a large monster. Even in the starter areas they have multiple phases, so I can imagine in the higher zones they get quite ridiculous. There will be Notorious Monsters in the game; they just won't have the spawn mechanics they had in FFXI.
And I cannot imagine that all FATEs give nothing but gil, exp, and seals. For completion, sure, but I imagine that the Notorious Monsters will drop items as well. The question is, if 100 people attack one monster, how is the loot table distributed?
You can't just give everybody the item, and you can't just give it to the guy that attacked it first. I know you said you were averse to making it a part of the Hunting Log, but that may be the proper solution.
Alexanderon
Neo Member
If I level my CNJ to 30 and unlock WHM, equipping the WHM "stone" will level my CNJ at the same time. But if I am just playing my CNJ, and reach him to 50, I'm not leveling my WHM too, right? I have to have the stone, equipped, yes?
I would think that's how they will handle future jobs. Even if I have CNJ to 50, I still would have to unlock the new job and play it from level 30, or whatever arbitrary number they choose. May not be as immersive as starting from level 1, but it's not like jobs really add all that many new abilities either.
CNJ and WHM share the same levels. If you're leveling one, you're leveling the other.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I'm really dissapointed at how DRG plays. I need to try it out on higher level content but right now is the most boring class/job I played. Most classes saw totally new mechanics and lnc is basically the same as 1.0 but more boring. Do we really need 3 jumps and several skills with DOT, why Chaos Trust was one of the most powerful multi-attack skills and now is a stupid DOT?
Class lvl is tied to job lvl, think as job as some kind of spec, is entirely dependant of your class. Jobs don't really has lvls.
Is not that hard. Jobs dosn't -really- have levels, they're just specs of classes. When you become a WHM you keep leveling the class is atached to it, that is CNJ and the level of the job is the same as the class it belongs.
Class lvl is tied to job lvl, think as job as some kind of spec, is entirely dependant of your class. Jobs don't really has lvls.
Is not that hard. Jobs dosn't -really- have levels, they're just specs of classes. When you become a WHM you keep leveling the class is atached to it, that is CNJ and the level of the job is the same as the class it belongs.
Someone needs to link me to this shit. This is proper confusing.
SoraanTribal
Member
As someone else said, think of jobs as a kind of talent spec (if you know what that means in terms of WoW knowledge). Like in WoW, you don't have to level Feral, Balance, or Restro Druid specs separately. In FFXIV, Conjurer is the base class (in the previous example, Druid was the base class), and White Mage (the job) is the specialized spec.
So if you level Conjurer up to level 50 and complete the White Mage job quest, you'll have a level 50 White Mage, too (since it's just a specialized version of Conjurer basically).
Ah I see - is there any benefit of NOT going WHM then? Like is there any reason to stay on as Conjurer once you've unlocked that class?
Alexanderon
Neo Member
Ugh. That's a shame. Though I guess it's probably better that for every new job they add a new class. Adding a job that only creates 5 new abilities would probably not be very fun.
WHM cannot borrow abilities from other classes. CNJ can.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Basically, no.
WHM has more defined (and better) stats and abilities to perform it's role on a party. Classes can be better for solo since you can equip skills from any other class (while in WHM you can equipo only from 2 other classes)
I would say there's no benefit at all to play Conjurer instead of WHM.
However for what I got to see on my legacy character, the only class still worth playing at lv50 (just as in v1) is Thaumaturge, since being a Black Mage doesn't allow you to have Conjurer skills, but as THM you can equip Cure, Protect, Stoneskin and Raise.
Also, the only real reason to be a class at level 50 instead of the job, is if the job cannot equip Conjurer spells and you might be doing something solo or duo and having Cure/Stoneskin/Raise would be something useful.
You mean the additional abilities you can use like a "sub job" from XI? So you can be a CNJ/THM but just a WHM?
SoraanTribal
Member
I think "classes" are better suited to soloing as they can equip abilities from other classes, and "jobs" are better for parties/dungeons/etc. At least, that was their intention.
A class is the base foundational thing you can be. It primarily excels at its main role, but can use abilities from any other classes to compliment its primary abilities. When you level a class, you level the class itself. Simple.
A job is a specialized version of the base class that restricts what you can equip from other classes depending on the job itself. You gain unique abilities that are granted through completing job quests that start at level 30. The level 30 job quest is where you quest to gain a soul crystal, which when equipped changes your base class to a job depending on the crystal equipped.
When you level a job, you are leveling the base class. The job does not have ANY levels associated with it other than the level of the base class. Example: A level 30 conjurer can become a level 30 white mage by equipping the soul crystal. If you level up to level 31 as a white mage, and unequip the soul crystal, you will become a level 31 conjurer. If you THEN level up as a conjurer to level 32, and then equip a soul crystal, you will become a level 32 white mage.
TLDR: Your job level is based upon the level of the base class. You only really level up your class, but you technically "level up" your job through quests which grant you new abilities.
A job is a specialized version of the base class that restricts what you can equip from other classes depending on the job itself. You gain unique abilities that are granted through completing job quests that start at level 30. The level 30 job quest is where you quest to gain a soul crystal, which when equipped changes your base class to a job depending on the crystal equipped.
When you level a job, you are leveling the base class. The job does not have ANY levels associated with it other than the level of the base class. Example: A level 30 conjurer can become a level 30 white mage by equipping the soul crystal. If you level up to level 31 as a white mage, and unequip the soul crystal, you will become a level 31 conjurer. If you THEN level up as a conjurer to level 32, and then equip a soul crystal, you will become a level 32 white mage.
TLDR: Your job level is based upon the level of the base class. You only really level up your class, but you technically "level up" your job through quests which grant you new abilities.
Alexanderon
Neo Member
Precisely. WHM is basically a specialized Conjurer. You roll with that, and you're pretty much the best healer in the game. With CNJ, you still have access to other class abilities, but that comes at a cost.
Every job has access to 2 other classes skills besides their base class.
1. That would mean DRG can use 4 stuns within a 1 minute period.
2. Stances are uninteresting. Knowing when is the right time to use cooldowns is what seperates good and bad players ultimately.
3. Removing hate completely would be somewhat strong. It's up to DPS to manage their hate and not take aggro from tanks. If they could freely drop aggro every 3 minutes at the cost of almost no DPS loss there wouldn't be a need to worry about threat.
Chaos Thrust does seem like it needs something more. It's just a stronger version of Phlebotomize that requires setup. Just seems like an overall boring skill.
Alexanderon
Neo Member
Np, WHM gets access to those just to increase their survivability, also some people liked to ghetto tank as WHM, using those extra skills, I wonder how viable will it be to tank as WHM compared to 1.19+
SoraanTribal
Member
I know this should be an obvious "yes, of course!" question, but you never really know with SE:
Regarding the Duty Finder, will we be able to invite a friend into a party, and then both queue up for a dungeon together? Or is the Duty Finder only something you can do when solo? (Like does being in a party lock out use of the Duty Finder?)
You would think the answer would be "yes, you can use the duty finder with other people in your party", but SE makes some questionable decisions in regards to game design sometimes (especially in their MMOs).
Regarding the Duty Finder, will we be able to invite a friend into a party, and then both queue up for a dungeon together? Or is the Duty Finder only something you can do when solo? (Like does being in a party lock out use of the Duty Finder?)
You would think the answer would be "yes, you can use the duty finder with other people in your party", but SE makes some questionable decisions in regards to game design sometimes (especially in their MMOs).
SoraanTribal
Member
Ah true. Is it for sure coming next week? I really hope we'll be able to use it to "fill up a party gap" as you said.
Devs have already answered this at least once on beta forums already and the answer is yes.
SoraanTribal
Member
Oh, that's fantastic. Thanks!
Relaxed Muscle
Member
1. Kinda useless since most bosses enemies becomes inmune to stun after a couple of uses (and lot's of jobs already has a stun skill).
2. Stances allow for more varied gameplay inside the same job. It may not work on all the cases but DRG needs something more, the job right now is too straighforward even for a DD job.
3. I agree, that jump is mainly to avoid attacks and lower your hate in the process. Having access to Quelling Strikes and DRG should have enough to manage hate.
And yeah, Chaos Trust is a laughable skill right now.
Was delayed from this past weekend to the coming one, so hopefully it will available on this friday.
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