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[GoofsterStud]

I guess he means this one on the 27th?

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/350112593056251908

I was a Microsoft rep once for the University.

You have to have so many facebook and twitter fans. You have to say how great Microsoft is. Your basically a glorified sales person. You get to show there products. You can't say anything negative. They judge your impact by your amount of tweets and how many people have activity in your profile. You hold events and give away fee Microsoft products.

What a nightmare that was. At least dumb companies ate it up...not my fault if they think that makes you more technically savvy than other CIS majors.

 

[Suikoguy]

I was a Microsoft rep once for the University.

You have to have so many facebook and twitter fans. You have to say how great Microsoft is. Your basically a glorified sales person. You get to show there products. You can't say anything negative. They judge your impact by your amount of tweets and how many people have activity in your profile. You hold events and give away fee Microsoft products.

What a nightmare that was. At least dumb companies ate it up...not my fault if they think that makes you more technically savvy then other CIS majors.

So in other words the questions in those events are like:

"How awesome is Xbox One?"

 

[Bornstellar]

Not to attack you personally but Halo avatar. Intern at Microsoft. Talking up the cloud. Defending random person that claims to be an insider that didn't end up pass verification but questions if CBoaT is legit.

You're not a reliable source in this instance.

Not that it matters, as MS very likely won't institute their DRM bullshit again. Would still be good to have a press release come out and lay all the cards on the table that for the Xbox One nothing will ever change again. Anything they plan on doing will only be for digital purchases and will never change anything retroactively.


You just said "Have you seen Titanfall" without using the exact words. I laughed.

1. I love Halo, however, I don't currently own an Xbox.
2. Yup, so I think I have a little more insight into what has happened than most people here since I am able to interact with and talk with some of the people who work on Xbox (I don't).
3. I'm saying that the "cloud" is a real thing with certain advantages, just not the ones that most people thought was being presented. A lot of people here like to think they are tech savy, but continue to spew ignorance.
4. I was just curious if CBoaT had been vetted the same way that so many demand that others be vetted.

And since it still doesn't seem clear to you all, it will be literally impossible for MS to revert their policies on physical media after the box ships due to the way that disk verification is handled.

So in other words the questions in those events are like:

"How awesome is Xbox One?"

Absolutely false. Almost every question that has been asked here was asked there. Phil was BRUTALLY honest in his evaluation of the fallout of E3, and more specifically, Sony's gotcha moment. They were good, hard questions with candid answers.

 

[BlastProcessing]

It's saying "wake the fuck up and smell the coffee...that company doesn't deserve your custom."

It's saying "Don't be a dumbass and get in that creepy guy's windowless van. There are other ways to get candy."

But that van has exclusive candy!

 

[Alej]

"How awesome is Xbox One?"

Amazing and awesome!

 

[Teletraan1]

All these replies, all these bans, over a sensationalist cover. A cover has just a glance to try and entice the potential reader to buy the publication. Putting bland statements on a cover does nothing for this. I am sure the content of the article will go into the what and why in a level headed way.

 

[GoofsterStud]

So in other words the questions in those events are like:

"How awesome is Xbox One?"

If it's anything like the Xbox 360 event...anything negative or pro PS3 was frowned upon and the subject quickly changed.

HD-DVD is the future after all. Giving it as an add-on was a benefit to the customer. Some who might not benefit from HD-DVD and lack HD-TV's and that's why we provide the option. HD-DVD will no doubt be the preferred method.

I seriously heard everything.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

But that van has exclusive candy!

Titanfall skittles or no deal

 

[Alej]

But that van has exclusive candy!

What is this bang van you want me in? Enough candy.

 

[benny_a]

And since it still doesn't seem clear to you all, it will be literally impossible for MS to revert their policies on physical media after the box ships due to the way that disk verification is handled.

You merely assert it. It needs to be demonstrated.

It's also such a tangent because they are not going to revert their stance. They aren't for business reasons, not because they lock themselves out of their own software or some fantasy.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I was a Microsoft rep once for the University.

You have to have so many facebook and twitter fans. You have to say how great Microsoft is. Your basically a glorified sales person. You get to show there products. You can't say anything negative. They judge your impact by your amount of tweets and how many people have activity in your profile. You hold events and give away fee Microsoft products.

What a nightmare that was. At least dumb companies ate it up...not my fault if they think that makes you more technically savvy then other CIS majors.

So basically a viral marketer?

 

[CouldBeWorse]

It specifically states that to enable indefinite offline mode the first batch of consoles will need to be connected to the internet at least once to receive a firmware update. Essentially MS are setting the 24h timer to infinite so it never reaches zero and forces a check in.

Source? I asked earlier and no one provided it. I couldn't find it via a quick Google search, either.

 

[Shrennin]

Yeesh. How low Microsoft has fallen. They had so much potential with the 360 (a great base with a solid audience) and they squandered pretty much all of that potential. Microsoft is still not out of the game yet, but they will be behind Sony for the next few years, at the very least. Nintendo will likely still be last for this generation but Nintendo is at least here to stay and I'm not so sure about Microsoft's commitment if things should turn south for one generation. They need to bring back J. Allard and get Peter Moore back from EA.

 

[GoofsterStud]

So basically a viral marketer?

Pretty much. At least I got paid. Felt like a tool the whole time.

 

[Biker19]

You guys better hope Xbone succeeds because if Sony controls the market by itself then GOD help us.

Have you forgotten about PS1 & PS2?

 

[benny_a]

Source? I asked earlier and no one provided it. I couldn't find it via a quick Google search, either.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games – After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.

 

[Bornstellar]

You merely assert it. It needs to be demonstrated.

It's also such a tangent because they are not going to revert their stance. They aren't for business reasons, not because they lock themselves out of their own software or some fantasy.

And how would you like it demonstrated when the console is not even out yet? I don't think you're going to be able to get a better guarantee before then.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

False - this is due to a required day one patch which has no bearing on the DRM policies of the system. Like I said, previously licenses were assigned to users for all game purchases. Now, disc based purchases have licenses tied to the disc. That is NOT a software change. That is a very real, and very hard physical change to what gets written on the disc, and how the system must respond to a disc.

 

[Shrennin]

Have you forgotten about PS1 & PS2?

Sony is in a great mindset right now but things can and will change. Success often makes one prideful, which leads to bad decisions for everyone involved. Had Sony controlled the market with the PS3 then this generation would have sucked but since they had competition with Microsoft it had humbled Sony to the point that it allowed them to reevaluate their priorities. Let's not forget Kutaragi's mindset at the time that everyone will want to have two jobs just so they can purchase a PS3.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

But that van has exclusive candy!

I guess that exclusive candy is too much for some kids to resist. So much so that they are totally willing to forget that the creepy dude already showed them the ball gag, the duct tape, and the shovel, and they'll go ahead and get in the van anyway.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Almost every question that has been asked here was asked there. Phil was BRUTALLY honest in his evaluation of the fallout of E3, and more specifically, Sony's gotcha moment. They were good, hard questions with candid answers.

Cool.

A lot of people here have posted how they would have loved to be a fly on the wall at Microsoft.

I think there would be high interest if you were to make a thread about this meeting, summarizing what was said, the general sentiment and so on.

 

[benny_a]

And how would you like it demonstrated when the console is not even out yet? I don't think you're going to be able to get a better guarantee before then.

A better guarantee than your post on NeoGAF? I'm pretty sure there is something more Microsoft can do than have an intern post their policy in a random Edge magazine-cover thread.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Have you forgotten about PS1 & PS2?

I haven't forgotten, but I've forgiven.

 

[Jack_AG]

Source? I asked earlier and no one provided it. I couldn't find it via a quick Google search, either.

Really? That's all I'm getting when I Googled Xbox One Day 1 Patch

Not to mention I linked to not just the article - but the entire NeoGaf thread/discussion about this Day 1 update a few pages back. Yes - we already concluded this discussion and yes - it is to enable offline mode.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Good for them! I hoper this is the start of a trend.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

I can see how you can imply that, but I read that statement differently. I read that as "you have to install this update to do anything."

Whitten refuted this point specifically in that IGN article that I posted.

 

[Bornstellar]

Cool.

A lot of people here have posted how they would have loved to be a fly on the wall at Microsoft.

I think there would be high interest if you were to make a thread about this meeting, summarizing what was said, the general sentiment and so on.

TBH, I would love to in order to clarify various misconceptions. However, at the same time, there were things said which would either be in violation of my NDA or would simply be inappropriate (for example, I would LOVE to tell you the exact words Phil used to describe what Sony did to MS at E3, but that would be irresponsible). I can talk about what is public (yet people continue to misconstrue), however.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I haven't forgotten, but I've forgiven.

What is there to forgive?

Sega fan?

 

[MogCakes]

4. I was just curious if CBoaT had been vetted the same way that so many demand that others be vetted.

He has been, many times over. His track record is over 90% correct for his entire post history of leaks. That and the mods know he's legitimate. Beyond track record and conferring with a mod there's no other way to legitimize oneself as an insider without outing themselves in some form, which many of CBOAT's detractors would love to see happen.

TBH, I would love to in order to clarify various misconceptions. However, at the same time, there were things said which would either be in violation of my NDA or would simply be inappropriate (for example, I would LOVE to tell you the exact words Phil used to describe what Sony did to MS at E3, but that would be irresponsible). I can talk about what is public (yet people continue to misconstrue), however.

Best that you don't endanger your position there. Not worth it. I'm sure they've tagged who was in that meeting and who's who.

 

[benny_a]

False - this is due to a required day one patch which has no bearing on the DRM policies of the system. Like I said, previously licenses were assigned to users for all game purchases. Now, disc based purchases have licenses tied to the disc. That is NOT a software change. That is a very real, and very hard physical change to what gets written on the disc, and how the system must respond to a disc.

http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-drm-reversal-cuts-features-requires-one-time-514419715

Microsoft clarifies that the planned day-one Xbox One update, which Whitten told me, will "complete some of the software that won’t be there," is actually not a result of today's DRM policy change. Rather, it was always planned and will simply be required for playing off-line, among other things. Not a patch, they say. But, yes, your new Xbox console would have to connect online once in order to do the things Microsoft described today. And then you can keep it offline and play games without re-connecting to the Internet forever.

If it's required to play off-line and the 24h check-in is the DRM which people are referring to and that patch removes that check-in that makes it a day 1 patch to remove online-DRM.

Is this some absurd semantics argument? (This is way off-topic, so I'm out and link to the thread where this was discussed.)

 

[NullPointer]

I guess that exclusive candy is too much for some kids to resist. So much so that they are totally willing to forget that the creepy dude already showed them the ball gag, the duct tape, and the shovel, and they'll go ahead and get in the van anyway.

But mnnhnnnnnn.... gnnnnn!

*removes ball-gag*

But... Forza 5...

 

[Bornstellar]

A better guarantee than your post on NeoGAF? I'm pretty sure there is something more Microsoft can do than have an intern post their policy in a random Edge magazine-cover thread.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today – There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.

One more time with feeling:
THERE WILL BE NO LIMITATIONS TO USING AND SHARING GAMES.

http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-drm-reversal-cuts-features-requires-one-time-514419715


If it's required to play off-line and the 24h check-in is the DRM which people are referring to and that patch removes that check-in that makes it a day 1 patch to remove online-DRM.

Is this some absurd semantics argument?

That's bad reporting by Kotaku. The day one patch is planned maintanece. Do you really think they have to have to patch a policy that hasn't been implemented on a console that hasn't even shipped? That's tantamount to making a game design change halfway through development, but then, rather than shipping with that change, providing a patch for it on launch. That's simply not how software development works.

Newsflash: Them changing their minds once means they can change their minds twice.

Newsflash - not once they ship, no they can't.

 

[Toki767]

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update



One more time with feeling:
THERE WILL BE NO LIMITATIONS TO USING AND SHARING GAMES.

Newsflash: Them changing their minds once means they can change their minds twice.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Source? I asked earlier and no one provided it. I couldn't find it via a quick Google search, either.

http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-drm-reversal-cuts-features-requires-one-time-514419715

Though the policy has been clarified to become a pre-existing update since I last read the article.

Whether you take their word for it is up to you, personally I remain sceptical.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Xbone is just plan inferior in design.


Weaker specs, bulky build, no sense by the maker of what they want to do, etc.

Microsoft failed to capitalize on what made the Xbone's predecssors so successful.

 

[Shrennin]

Newsflash: Them changing their minds once means they can change their minds twice.

To be fair, the market would have to change drastically for Microsoft to even consider that. They would get absolutely devastated if they changed their minds with the way the market currently is. However, you are right in a sense - the onus is on Microsoft to show that they intend to make up for the mistakes that they had made with policies and ideas behind the Xbox One - although reversing its DRM policies is one small, but crucial step toward that. Assuming they were legitimately surprised by the reaction surrounding Xbox One policies, then they need to show that their mindset is changing and that they want to create a system that is good for all involved.

Xbone is just plan inferior in design.


Weaker specs, bulky build, no sense by the maker of what they want to do, etc.

Microsoft failed to capitalize on what made the Xbone's predecssors so successful.

Most of those things can be changed still. The weaker specs are gonna stay obviously but the specs will not be a hindrance to Microsoft like the specs of the Wii U are to Nintendo. The bigger problem Microsoft is gonna face at launch is the price of the console - $100 more for a system that has a lower value perception than the PS4 is huge for Sony.

Anyway, the build can be changed with new remodels and it's not a huge issue and the vision for the Xbox One is hopefully being corrected as we speak. I disagree that Microsoft doesn't know what they wanted to do with Xbox One - it was clear: they wanted an all-digital machine that was an all-in-one entertainment device. If they focus on the entertainment aspect but emphasize games (make the system more indie-friendly, make even more consumer friendly policies, work with developers) then they could correct themselves.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

TBH, I would love to in order to clarify various misconceptions. However, at the same time, there were things said which would either be in violation of my NDA or would simply be inappropriate (for example, I would LOVE to tell you the exact words Phil used to describe what Sony did to MS at E3, but that would be irresponsible). I can talk about what is public (yet people continue to misconstrue), however.

Why is that? Did he use graphic language?

I'm not an Xbox fan, but Phil seems like a good guy. All about the games compared to the rest of Xbox leadership.

 

[Bornstellar]

Why is that? Did he use graphic language?

I'm not an Xbox fan, but Phil seems like a good guy. All about the games, compared to the rest of Xbox leadership.

Graphic, in the sense that it provided great imagery, but not in the vulgar sense. Just know that Phil at the very least has no illusions about what went down.

I think it finally makes sense. I think.

Out of the box it won't work offline. The original intent of the patch was to enable 24 hours offline. Now it will be set to forever as zomg says.

Now it sounds disingenuous for Whitten to have said that the patch wasn't due to the DRM reversal because a part of the patch is to address that part of the policy change.

How many times does this need to be repeated? The patch won't enable 24 hours offline. They only mention that you will need to connect ONCE for that patch because I assume they will be developing the OS level stuff until the very end, giving them as much time as possible to get things as polished as possible. The DRM reversal is not only a software change, but also represents a major shift in the way discs are printed.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

If it's required to play off-line and the 24h check-in is the DRM which people are referring to and that patch removes that check-in that makes it a day 1 patch to remove online-DRM.

Is this some absurd semantics argument? (This is way off-topic, so I'm out and link to the thread where this was discussed.)

I think it finally makes sense. I think.

Out of the box it won't work offline. The original intent of the patch was to enable 24 hours offline. Now it will be set to forever as zomg says.

Now it sounds disingenuous for Whitten to have said that the patch wasn't due to the DRM reversal because a part of the patch is to address that part of the policy change.

EDIT:
I also think the intern is correct in that the DRM solution is a combination of hardware and software that can't be implemented or reversed solely via a firmware update and make it apply to the whole system.

 

[weremichael]

Let's not exaggerate. It's a somewhat unfortunate headline, far from the worst shit I've seen (the past month).



What article? You mean the cover? Is the article out yet?

the cover and the synopsis on their website. the magazine comes out on Thursday.

 

[astraycat]

False - this is due to a required day one patch which has no bearing on the DRM policies of the system. Like I said, previously licenses were assigned to users for all game purchases. Now, disc based purchases have licenses tied to the disc. That is NOT a software change. That is a very real, and very hard physical change to what gets written on the disc, and how the system must respond to a disc.

That is a very silly way to do things. Why wouldn't they just have included a key in the box with the disc? I see no benefit to additional engineering/QA for an on-disc licensing solution. Then supposing they went with on-disc licensing, why would Microsoft go the harder path of physically changing their disc process rather than just making it so their software could just ignore the on-disc licensing?

Edit: wording

 

[Biker19]

Sony is in a great mindset right now but things can and will change. Success often makes one prideful, which leads to bad decisions for everyone involved. Had Sony controlled the market with the PS3 then this generation would have sucked but since they had competition with Microsoft it had humbled Sony to the point that it allowed them to reevaluate their priorities. Let's not forget Kutaragi's mindset at the time that everyone will want to have two jobs just so they can purchase a PS3.

Even though Sony kind of went overboard with PS3 with the $600 price tag, I doubt that even they would be dumb enough to go through with something like DRM on their consoles about used games, especially when the used gaming market in their main region (being Japan) is very huge there.

 

[Shrennin]

Even though Sony kind of went overboard with PS3 with the $600 price tag, I doubt that even they would be dumb enough to go through with something like DRM on their consoles.

The market is going that way though. It's going to go all-digital eventually and DRM is gonna exist as a result in some form. Microsoft just took a bigger step than they should have. I think Microsoft could have gone all-digital, but they would have had to design a system where DRM wasn't intrusive - in other words, online authentication wasn't something they should have done.

Sony's PS3 had a lot of problems - complexity in its design, the price tag, and the hubris of Sony itself. I would say that Sony, at that time, was in just as big of a predicament as Microsoft is in now.

Also, it should be noted that the Xbox One no longer has any DRM so that's at least removed - the biggest problem for Microsoft will be its price + weaker specs.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

That is a very silly way to do things. Why wouldn't they just have included a key in the box with the disc? I see no benefit to additional engineering/QA for an on-disc licensing solution. Then supposing they went with on-disc licensing, why would it require additional engineering to make it so the software can just ignore the on-disc licensing information?

It wouldn't. Just a software update. Coincidentally the Bone requires a day one update to function properly...

 

[NullPointer]

The market is going that way though. It's going to go all-digital eventually and DRM is gonna exist as a result. Microsoft just took a bigger step than they should have.

Digital is fine. Requiring periodic phone homes is not necessary though. Hope they go right back to the drawing board.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The patch is not to remove drm,it was a planned patch.

Whatever the original intentions of the patch were, the fact remains that you must connect your system to the Internet and update it for it to function. The system will not play games until you do so.

 

[astraycat]

It wouldn't. Just a software update. Coincidentally the Bone requires a day one update to function properly...

That's sort of what I meant to say, but when I removed all the extra bits in my message I didn't bother for a final look-over.

Whoops!

 

[Bornstellar]

That is a very silly way to do things. Why wouldn't they just have included a key in the box with the disc? I see no benefit to additional engineering/QA for an on-disc licensing solution. Then supposing they went with on-disc licensing, why would Microsoft go the harder path of physically changing their disc process rather than just making it so their software could just ignore the on-disc licensing?

Edit: wording

A. Because that's not what people are used to and that would still make used game sales and rentals nigh impossible.
B. Because there wasn't originally going to be on-disc licensing period.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Graphic, in the sense that it provided great imagery, but not in the vulgar sense. Just know that Phil at the very least has no illusions about what went down.

Thanks! I'm glad to hear not everyone at Xbox is out of touch.

 

[Shrennin]

Digital is fine. Requiring periodic phone homes is not necessary though. Hope they go right back to the drawing board.

The really stupid thing is that Microsoft could have just done one thing: removed the online authentication and never require it in the first place. I think the idea of buying disks as a sort of ticket to have a digital game (it would download the game to your profile) is a brilliant idea that averts an online requirement. If you must have some sort of DRM with that, then just require the disk to play the game one time out of a week or something just so it can determine that you still own the game.

 

[Jack_AG]

How many times does this need to be repeated? The patch won't enable 24 hours offline. They only mention that you will need to connect ONCE for that patch because I assume they will be developing the OS level stuff until the very end, giving them as much time as possible to get things as polished as possible. The DRM reversal is not only a software change, but also represents a major shift in the way discs are printed.

Damn, dude:

Microsoft clarifies that the planned day-one Xbox One update, which Whitten told me, will "complete some of the software that won’t be there"—is actually not a result of today's DRM policy change. Rather, it was always planned and will be simply be required for playing off-line, among other things. Not a patch, they say. But, yes, your new Xbox console would have to connect online once in order to do the things Microsoft described today. And then you can keep it offline and play games without re-connecting to the Internet forever.

That is AFTER they clarified on:

Xbox One consumers will have to download a day-one patch to enable the Xbox One's offline mode.

So to do "the things Microsoft described today" (just in case you missed it, that was reversing DRM), it requires a Day 1 patch. The better question is... how many times do you need it repeated before you understand it?

Here's GAF's entire discussion on this in thread form:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=596751

Now quit being so shilly.

Spoiler

Badum-Tsh