Team Fortress 2 receiving large balance update (and new maps) in upcoming patch.

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=11023

TF2 has been evolving since the day we released it back in 2007. Unfortunately, as players' tactics and abilities have grown, so have the bugs and exploits in some of the maps. For example, since Badwater shipped in The Heavy Update, TF2 has added more than 140 weapons to the game, some of which introduced new capabilities: sentry jumping, rocket jumping with no health cost, the ability to pick up and move your buildings. All of these are just a fraction of the many ways players can now turn maps like Badwater upside down.

It didn't take long before clever players discovered how to use sentry jumping to build on roofs, Jumpers to move quickly behind enemy lines and spawn camp, and sneakily place buildings inside of their spawns. While we love players coming up with new and inventive ways to win, let's face it: It's never fun to be gunned down from above and behind.

And Badwater is just one of the maps with fixes in this update. In fact, the majority of maps in TF2 have gone through the same process. By eliminating these exploits and bugs, players can once again feel like they understand threats and the dangers presented in combat spaces.

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=11024

To start with, let's look at the "banner" items for the Soldier. The most popular of these by far is The Buff Banner, which provides an offensive buff enabling nearby teammates to do additional burst damage. Conversely, The Battalion's Backup, another Soldier "banner" item, is barely ever equipped. The Backup's owner-equip rate is well below what we'd consider healthy, with less than 15% of players who own it ever equipping it. If this data wasn't enough, the feedback we've gotten from the Backup's owners easily corroborates the lack of interest.

Clearly, we needed to bring The Battalion's Backup up to parity with the usefulness of The Buff Banner. Previously, The Battalion's Backup rewarded players for taking additional damage, making it a frustratingly high-risk item. We found that most Soldiers would die well before they were able to build a full charge. When the next update ships, The Battalion's Backup builds up its charge by dealing damage rather than receiving it and provides additional damage resistance while active.

Let's look at another example with the opposite problem: The Dead Ringer. At roughly 80%, the equip rate for the Dead Ringer is staggeringly high. Given the many other items available in this category, this means that players feel they don't have any other viable option but choosing the Dead Ringer. We've gotten emails from players who describe the item as frustrating to fight against, requiring too little skill from the Spies and too much from their opponents.

In our next update, the Dead Ringer will work generally the same way it always has, letting Spies feign death to escape from damage that would have otherwise killed them. However, now any damage the Spy takes after his "death" will decrease the maximum length of time he can spend cloaked. This gives any players chasing the Spy more of an opportunity to catch up and deal a real finishing blow, while also requiring more skill from any Spy trying to make his way to actual safety.

Finally, we'd like to talk about item sets. Historically, item sets have been thematically consistent sets of items that provide a unique gameplay effect when worn together. Unfortunately, these gameplay effects had two negative effects. For one, they limited player choice, making players feel like they would be underpowered if not wearing the complete set. For another, it was a balancing nightmare. An individual item that might be balanced as part of a set could feel underpowered (or overpowered) on its own.

One of the main goals of introducing a new weapon is to give players more choices that will help them explore the game in fun new ways. Set bonuses had the opposite effect, making many players feel constrained in their choices.

Set bonuses also required players to have full knowledge of other players' loadouts, including currently "invisible" items like melee-slot weapons. For example, the Croc-o-Style Kit set bonus gives any Sniper equipping it immunity to headshots. But there was no way for a Sniper to know whether a targeted Sniper had the bonus simply by looking. And this wasn't an isolated problem. Similar issues cropped up around the Scout's Milkman set bonus (extra health) and the Demo's Expert's Ordnance set bonus (extra fire resistance).

For all of these reasons, as part of this next update, we've decided to change the way item set bonuses work. Players have traded for, purchased, and crafted these items, many in order to complete the sets and get these bonuses, and we're not abandoning the bonuses outright. Instead, we've moved the gameplay bonuses to specific items within the sets, and introduced new bonuses to these sets that won't affect gameplay balance.

I'm sure there will be hats in the update too.
 
Two new community maps (congrats, ScoropioUprising!), updates to most of the old maps, and tweaks to a buttload of weapons, plus who-knows what else will be in the patch.

This looks like it's gonna be awesome.

I'm sure there will be hats in the update too.
With the new gold star submission system? You bet there will be.
 
I played a fair bit in 2007 when the game was released but stopped about a year later.

As a result I have no idea as to how the game works these days, I want to jump back in but feel like I need to research it first.
 
Yet another Dr Enforcicle nerf. :(

I'm not sure nerfing DR was even a good idea. If anything, Spies need a general buff. DR was used because a lot of times it's the only viable watch.
 
Looks like good stuff, I hope the new bonuses for the item sets are purely cosmetic and they really do put all the game play stuff on the individual items.
 
As someone who values new maps above all else in TF2 updates Valve made me very happy the first day of this update with the map fixes plus adding in 2 excellent community maps.

I can't wait to see what else this update has to offer. I think it's pretty likely we'll get a new MvM map as well, since someone from Reddit who recently visited Valve/the TF2 team said they were play testing a MvM map when he visited.
 
Interested in how they balanced the Item Sets... I spent a lot of time getting that dumb alligator hat, so I'm hoping they don't drop that aspect in its entirety, but at the same time I can't think of a way they'd introduce "new bonuses to these sets that won't affect gameplay balance." Curiosity piqued.
 
Haven't played this game since The Orange Box came out. Maybe I'll give it a shot again...? The whole hats thing is kinda scary, though.
 
Nerf the pomson.

That weapon is fucking bullshit. It's a shotgun with long range damage and long range crits.
 
1. Fuck douche ringer spies.
They can take advantage of metal placement to run around with minimal damage. I've always been of the opinion that if you're caught, then you shouldn't need to rely on a broken item to save you.
2. Fuck sentry jumping
I hope these patches fix these shitty exploits. Gorge was fixed and then unfixed. Engineers are bad enough with the wrangler with jumping but to also give the sentry a health boost is insane. Change it so that the health buff is still there but if an engie has the wrangler he MUST use it to fire the sentry so there is no longer an auto target if you have it equipped. And remove sentry jumping.
3. Fuck the market gardener
Hit detection is off. Promotes useless soldiers jumping around and darling instead of contributing.
4. Item set bonuses
I got no problem for the changes but the reduce cloak sound shouldn't work with the douche ringer.
5. Fix the huntsman
2nd worse item in the game behind the douche ringer. Bullshit hit detection and plenty of times I would get two or three shots in and they stand around charging their bloody arrow to kill with one shot.
 
Shoutouts and congrats to my boy <<ScorpioUprising>> for getting two of his awesome maps in this update. I just started playing again so this update couldn't have come a better time.
 
Nerf the pomson.

That weapon is fucking bullshit. It's a shotgun with long range damage and long range crits.

They already did. The projectiles used to pass through players.

Also fuck every tryhard comp type who wants to ruin FUN TO USE weapons with nerfs.
 
They already did. The projectiles used to pass through players.

It's still bullshit because it does shotgun-esq damage up close while still having a 30+ hp long range attack, and can also still get crits at distance. I've died in one shot from an engineer on the other side of the map as a Scout because he's just spamming the fucking thing.

The Pomson is the weapon of choice of spawn camping engies, the worst subhuman scum in video game history. If it's going to do long range damage, it shouldn't have a high close range damage, plus the hit box for the shot is huge.
 
1. Fuck douche ringer spies.
They can take advantage of metal placement to run around with minimal damage. I've always been of the opinion that if you're caught, then you shouldn't need to rely on a broken item to save you.
2. Fuck sentry jumping
I hope these patches fix these shitty exploits. Gorge was fixed and then unfixed. Engineers are bad enough with the wrangler with jumping but to also give the sentry a health boost is insane. Change it so that the health buff is still there but if an engie has the wrangler he MUST use it to fire the sentry so there is no longer an auto target if you have it equipped. And remove sentry jumping.
3. Fuck the market gardener
Hit detection is off. Promotes useless soldiers jumping around and darling instead of contributing.

4. Item set bonuses
I got no problem for the changes but the reduce cloak sound shouldn't work with the douche ringer.
5. Fix the huntsman
2nd worse item in the game behind the douche ringer. Bullshit hit detection and plenty of times I would get two or three shots in and they stand around charging their bloody arrow to kill with one shot.

I agree with most of your points, but definitely not those two (and I get pretty sick of useless Market Gardeners). They're gimmick weapons that promote a niche style of play, and I think substantial nerfs will ruin those types of play. Huntsman in particular is probably the most vulnerable sub-class in the game, so it's hard to see what they could do to balance it while still allowing it to be useful in the least. Maybe tightening up the hitbox a little bit, but I think it's damage is just fine considering you need to draw back to one-shot anyone.
 
CTRL/CMD+F "Vanilla launch mode" No Results Found.

They can balance all they want, and that's nice and all but the game kinda died for me with all the class updates and too many people wanting those instead of a balanced class-based game with defined roles.
 
CTRL/CMD+F "Vanilla launch mode" No Results Found.

They can balance all they want, and that's nice and all but the game kinda died for me with all the class updates and too many people wanting those instead of a balanced class-based game with defined roles.

I'd like all the class updates, but none of the promotional items and secondary updates.

Just the initial updates for each class, where you unlock via achievements.
 
CTRL/CMD+F "Vanilla launch mode" No Results Found.

They can balance all they want, and that's nice and all but the game kinda died for me with all the class updates and too many people wanting those instead of a balanced class-based game with defined roles.
Aren't there already vanilla-TF2 severs though?

Also weirded out that the Dead Ringer's getting nerfed since I already thought it was a pretty easy item to suss out, especially if you're a Pyro. Really wish I knew how to make community maps as well. :(
 
Aren't there already vanilla-TF2 severs though?

Also weirded out that the Dead Ringer's getting nerfed since I already thought it was a pretty easy item to suss out, especially if you're a Pyro. Really wish I knew how to make community maps as well. :(

There are Vanilla servers.

Every server is also vanilla server whenever the item server goes down.
 
CTRL/CMD+F "Vanilla launch mode" No Results Found.

They can balance all they want, and that's nice and all but the game kinda died for me with all the class updates and too many people wanting those instead of a balanced class-based game with defined roles.

CTRL/CMD+F "Vanilla" mode whining

Yeah people still can't get over it.
 
Yet another Dr Enforcicle nerf. :(

I'm not sure nerfing DR was even a good idea. If anything, Spies need a general buff. DR was used because a lot of times it's the only viable watch.

I haven't played since the Halloween update, so unless things have changed, I can't even think of that many situations were the DR was even viable. The regular watch is almost always better unless you're on a map with very few easily defensible chokepoints and you're on attack.

The DR, however, is a lot easier to use against less skilled players which is why I think it was so popular. I also don't think nerfing it is that great an idea. Then again, I rarely used it so...
 
Aren't there already vanilla-TF2 severs though?

Also weirded out that the Dead Ringer's getting nerfed since I already thought it was a pretty easy item to suss out, especially if you're a Pyro. Really wish I knew how to make community maps as well. :(

It's really annoying to have to chase a invulnerable spy as they saunter to the nearest health and ammo kit.

It's even worse with the Spycicle.
 
Did not expect the weapon changes to come. Looks like I'll be jumping in again for a bit! Should be easy enough since I think most new items since I played last were all cosmetic anyway.

Also weirded out that the Dead Ringer's getting nerfed since I already thought it was a pretty easy item to suss out, especially if you're a Pyro. Really wish I knew how to make community maps as well. :(

Its the work involved. All a spy has to do is right click. Everyone else has to chase them around for a minimum amount of time.
 
Shame that dead ringer is being nerfed, but the thought of demo's not being able to sticky jump to enemy spawn like huge fucking douchebag cunts is worth it. People who do this are the worst. They should also make it impossible for spies to spawn camp tele's also.

Was hoping for new items and more than just 2 new maps but oh well. These tweaks should be interesting.
 
All I want is the stock watch and C&D to have silent decloaks. Or at least lower the volume to the state it was before the spy-sniper update.

Maybe lower the spread a bit on the revolver too. Fucking drives me insane when shots miss even with good aiming.

And get rid of the fucking homewrecker removing sappers bullshit.
 
I played a fair bit in 2007 when the game was released but stopped about a year later.

As a result I have no idea as to how the game works these days, I want to jump back in but feel like I need to research it first.

Take the pyro; left click sets anything on fire, right click pushes them back, deflects rockets and extinguishes burning team mates. I use the Axe that crits when opponents burn. (Used, haven't played a while myself, will be playing again soon) Or as a medic. Everybody loves the medic.
EDIT: as a spy i always chose the watch that gives you clock when not moving.
 
Aren't there already vanilla-TF2 severs though?

Also weirded out that the Dead Ringer's getting nerfed since I already thought it was a pretty easy item to suss out, especially if you're a Pyro. Really wish I knew how to make community maps as well. :(
Yes
He's just a my way or the highway kinda guy
 
Shame that dead ringer is being nerfed, but the thought of demo's not being able to sticky jump to enemy spawn like huge fucking douchebag cunts is worth it. People who do this are the worst. They should also make it impossible for spies to spawn camp tele's also.

Was hoping for new items and more than just 2 new maps but oh well. These tweaks should be interesting.
Spies camping teles are hilarious though.

If people are stupid enough to continually teleport into their backstabs then shame on them.
 
Spies camping teles are hilarious though.

If people are stupid enough to continually teleport into their backstabs then shame on them.

No I mean when spies use dead ringer (or any other watch really but dead ringer is easier) to run all the way to enemy spawn and sap the teleporters. It's a huge douche move that engies can't fight against. A pyro has to stay at spawn the entire game to prevent it from happening which is highly unrealistic.
 
I agree with most of your points, but definitely not those two (and I get pretty sick of useless Market Gardeners). They're gimmick weapons that promote a niche style of play, and I think substantial nerfs will ruin those types of play. Huntsman in particular is probably the most vulnerable sub-class in the game, so it's hard to see what they could do to balance it while still allowing it to be useful in the least. Maybe tightening up the hitbox a little bit, but I think it's damage is just fine considering you need to draw back to one-shot anyone.
Promotes a shit style of play more like.

Plenty of times I've been victim to a panic draw and fire and lucky headshot. Fuck the cuntsman.
 
No I mean when spies use dead ringer (or any other watch really but dead ringer is easier) to run all the way to enemy spawn and sap the teleporters. It's a huge douche move that engies can't fight against. A pyro has to stay at spawn the entire game to prevent it from happening which is highly unrealistic.

Uh that's a completely legitimate tactic. The Engie can repair the tele entrance from the exit and if the entrance is at spawn (like it should be) then there should be a someone coming through the spawn to deal with the spy anyway.
 
No I mean when spies use dead ringer (or any other watch really but dead ringer is easier) to run all the way to enemy spawn and sap the teleporters. It's a huge douche move that engies can't fight against. A pyro has to stay at spawn the entire game to prevent it from happening which is highly unrealistic.

That isn't an efficient use of a spy anyway. A spy who does that wastes a way better opportunity, which is to take the tele from the enemy spawn, sap it on exit, and hack your way through the enemy team from behind.
 
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