Did you see that somewhere? I ask since I can't imagine it going beyond 60-80K at the moment (this is why we need damn tessellation) for main characters.
EDIT: I mean look at this (10-15K):
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New Killzone: Shadow Fall gameplay
- Thread starter Canis lupus
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Did you see that somewhere? I ask since I can't imagine it going beyond 60-80K at the moment (this is why we need damn tessellation) for main characters.
EDIT: I mean look at this (10-15K):
Same here. You guys have me sending the page to my friends lol
Neither did I at first. Slick.
They can get away with it for a while. Tesselation is going to take a lot of work to get up and running if they haven't worked with it before. With the time they've saved from not having to prebake textures it's a fine solution to make launch.
As a fan of KZ, I got to say this forest level looks lame.
And that little robot seems alittle overkill. Like it seems its not even needed besides for reaching platforms that are far way. It really seems like you plus that thing shooting make the game a cakewalk or it doesnt even server a tactical purpose. Oh and the slow mo crap is just ugh. I hope that bot can be destroyed and its gimped.
This game is looking like a budget price buy from me, REAL TALK. GG What the fuck are you doing with this franchise?
And that little robot seems alittle overkill. Like it seems its not even needed besides for reaching platforms that are far way. It really seems like you plus that thing shooting make the game a cakewalk or it doesnt even server a tactical purpose. Oh and the slow mo crap is just ugh. I hope that bot can be destroyed and its gimped.
This game is looking like a budget price buy from me, REAL TALK. GG What the fuck are you doing with this franchise?
You're not fooling anyone.
Seriously, that footwork is a huge step up in animation. I don't even think that's scripted either, just the AI moving around after the player died.
I absolutely understand. And honestly, looking at Drake who is composed with around 40K polys nearly doubling that would bring truly stunning detail. The proof is in the pudding and as shown numerous times, GG have been great at modelling masked Helghasts but have fell short when it came to characters with exposed faces when compared to other Sony first parties. Now from what has been shown of two characters with exposed faces I can comfortably say that it's gone from amateur work to a truly professional one.
So, in the end, until tessellation comes online and even if they never use it for dynamically increasing poly count for characters, 60-80K for main characters would yield astounding results.
EDIT: Once again, look at this (KZ3). The detail is outstanding for the number of polygon GG had expended.
All Im saying this footage is disappointing to me. Doesnt "wow" me, personally. Graphics aside (we know it looks good), gameplay looks dull and that bot makes it easy for you to fly through the levels. To me, that bot is not needed and it kind of messes the flow of the game if you look at the gameplay on the OP.
The guy gets spotted, sends his bot, bot shoots them all while the AI reverts their attention to it. You get 1-2 shots at them and they are dead. This looks satisfying to you guys? Plus the see through wall stuff and slow-mo. Is this really Killzone?
I will get it eventually but boy did this video turn me off from buying it day1 as I hoped. I guess the bot is better than having another Rico. *shudders*
The guy gets spotted, sends his bot, bot shoots them all while the AI reverts their attention to it. You get 1-2 shots at them and they are dead. This looks satisfying to you guys? Plus the see through wall stuff and slow-mo. Is this really Killzone?
I will get it eventually but boy did this video turn me off from buying it day1 as I hoped. I guess the bot is better than having another Rico. *shudders*
It's a demo designed to show off functionality of new mechanics.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
You make it sound as if people are expecting a 60-rated game.
You're judging based on easy mode designed only to show off the new mechanics and features. On proper difficulties I'm sure it will be far more challenging. Imo the new gameplay is a marked improvement in a few key areas.
It's no longer pure linear, instead quite open ended and offering far more tactical variety. Add to that missions are variable and not strict, you can do them in any order you wish in this level, that again mixes things up and is a nice break away from KZ, COD, BF etc and strict linear gaming.
All of the gameplay impressions have actually been very strong. Several of them have been absolutely glowing.
I love this style of FPS and I'm looking forward to it.
Yes I applaud GG for doing non linear levels and giving you more freedom. BUT a few things seem like they are overkill. That bot as a offensive device seems too much and the see through walls/highlight enemies, to me, seem kinda not Killzone like.
Ok this is the level to show off the openness of the levels and the utility of the Bot. But it still seems some of its functions will make the game too easy. Just my opinion. Lets hope next time they show some more challenging scenarios.
ArisenDragon
Member
This game looks really impressive, could be really good probably will get it at launch.
I do get where you are coming from, and would agree depending on the difficulty of the game. We already know the bot is not with you on all missions. So maybe you only get it on a few missions, especially the more open one's. Where it might help offer far more tactical options and manoeuvring too, since it allows you to repel long distances. That takes the boredom out of long distance walking, and the bots vision and offensive capabilities add to tactical play. Think of it like the offensive bot from Halo 4 or games before it.
dragonbane
Member
FYI the characters in the Dark Sorcerer tech demo have one million polygons each lolDid you see that somewhere? I ask since I can't imagine it going beyond 60-80K at the moment (this is why we need damn tessellation) for main characters.
EDIT: I mean look at this (10-15K):
According to recent job offers main characters in the next game of Naughty Dog will have up to one million polygons as well.
We're going way beyond 80K next gen.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
But why have it at all if your not always going to have it? To me, either it expands the gameplay or it doesn't. If it does, then why take it away? Outside of some beginner missions, you should always have it IMO.
I remember they said the scene contained around 1 (or 1.2) million polys. Where did you read that each character had 1 mill poly?
To diversify gameplay and tactics? I'd personally prefer it if it's not in every mission.
SniperHunter
Banned
the owl gadget looks totally stupid...
I really hate the bots in Killzone games...they make things way too easy
I really hate the bots in Killzone games...they make things way too easy
bigboss370
Member
Wishmaster92
Member
No it's just an estimate since important characters tend to have about 3x more polygons than npcs. I mean the main character has way more stuff on him than the helghast right?
AgentChris
Member
GG are super talented, they just need to focus on making the game they want. They strayed with Killzone 3, hopefully Shadow Fall is more in line with Killzone 2. I would say Killzone 2 is my favorite FPS of all time. Killzone 3... fuuuuu
No it's just an estimate since important characters tend to have about 3x more polygons than npcs. I mean the main character has way more stuff on him than the helghan right?
True, however, would we see a proportional rise given the base count is so high to begin with? I have little doubt that we will see main protagonists nearing 100K polys (and later perhaps up to 150K) but intelligently designing a character to look great at minimal cost is always the aim of developers so that resources can go elsewhere (like animating the clothes better etc).
Once again (wow! and only in KZ3):
dragonbane
Member
Directly from Cage:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/06/11/the-dark-sorcerer-a-next-gen-comedy/
Another report confirms that the Goblin (the least complex character out of the 3) has around 800K polys. And here is the news about Naughty Dog doing something similar: http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/naughty-dog-pushes-for-one-million-polygons-10641
Someone made this handy comparison picture lol:
nhlducks35
Member
No playable Killzone at Gamescom, but I believe they are revealing MP for Killzone.
Edit: Whoops, meant Comic Con
Edit: Whoops, meant Comic Con
Wishmaster92
Member
Fine by me! Finally some mp action. Hopefully from the current build.
WetPotatoBread
Banned
What other bots have been in them? The OWL is totally new.
That's ComiCon. KZ will almost certainly be at Gamescom.
That's incredible but I think it's nigh impossible that most games that would portray a decent amount of characters on screen and good draw distance will not have their main protagonist/s be constituted by nearly a million polygons. It's a good exercise but I can't see it happening in regular games until we reach next-next-gen.
I am calling it now: For 30fps games, main characters will most likely be capped at 200K poly with most games (third parties) models ranging from 80-150K.
The one exception is their own products since their games don't function most normal ones do. So the lack of certain computationally heavy systems means more resources would be available toward visuals. And QD have always emphasized on character models more than anything in their games.
nhlducks35
Member
Yeah, my bad
dragonbane
Member
Yup, I think so as well. It's still pretty interesting that Naughty Dog is pushing for it as well: http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/naughty-dog-pushes-for-one-million-polygons-10641
But who knows, maybe only in pre-rendered cutscenes and toned down during gameplay?
I saw that article a while back.
And "ugh" and *barf* if the studios need to resort to pre-rendered cutscenes next gen. This gen it was used in games like Uncharted and TLoU to improve IQ and lighting but the poly count was left untouched. I would it as failure of technology if cutscenes can't look decent with over 80K poly for main characters, good AA and much better lighting.
Kenshin001
Member
If that demo is anything to go by they'll be lucky to hit 85. Reading reviews of KZ3 many mentioned it was a solid shooter that had a poor story and did not innovate. It had lost its personality/identity and visceral intensity compared to its predecessor.
What I've seen so far of SF looks like a mishmash of other games. With the bot, wall hack and slow mo the intensity, the thrill, has evaporated. Given KZ3's poor reception and that dull demo, unless they show something really compelling, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of PS4 buyers skip it altogether and go straight to BF4.
Wishmaster92
Member
Haha yeah that was the visual highlight of kz3 for me. You know, some people swear by how polygons don't make up a whole lot of difference. How lighting is way more important and that is correct for the most part. But the jump from just 10k to 30k is huge to me.
I mean compare Madison (15k)
To Jodi (30k)
Haha yeah that was the visual highlight of kz3 for me. You know, some people swear by how polygons don't make up a whole lot of difference. How lighting is way more important and that is correct for the most part. But the jump from just 10k to 30k is huge to me.
I mean compare Madison (10k)
To Jodi (30k)
Yeesh, the way to achieve 'perfect' gaming models really does seem to be realizing the imperfections.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Yes, because BF4 is going to have an amazingly original and innovative single player campaign
Rolling my eyes completely.
Prerendered cutscenes will probably be used more for background loading than out of a technical necessity.
a secret-boss
Banned
nothing really grabbed me to buy the game.
I think I'll stay with BF4 and watch dogs
I think I'll stay with BF4 and watch dogs
Haha yeah that was the visual highlight of kz3 for me. You know, some people swear by how polygons don't make up a whole lot of difference. How lighting is way more important and that is correct for the most part. But the jump from just 10k to 30k is huge to me.
I mean compare Madison (15k)
To Jodi (30k)
Thing is that with better lighting and texture even Madison's model can look better but undoubtedly the Jodie's model looks superior. But the question remains whether going from 30-60K will have the same effect. It may or it may not. It comes down where the polys are expended.
Here's a taste of what you posted in gif form and it shows that with better shaders these very models can look even better (they look fantastisch as they are; enough to elicit emotions):
Couldn't closer to the truth. It is a little known fact that girls in DoA (360) series are modelled with 55-60K polys and yet they look like plasticine dolls. Realism is down to imperfection, skin shader and lighting (sub surface scattering, translucency etc).
If that is how they will be used then all I want is 1:1 graphical fidelity between in-engine pre-rendered cutscene vs in-game visuals.
EDIT: It would remiss of me not to remind ourselves what characters can look like with only ~40k polys:
ProfessorMoran
Member
Thing is that with better lighting and texture even Madison's model can look better but undoubtedly the Jodie's model looks superior. But the question remains whether going from 30-60K will have the same effect. It may or it may not. It comes down where the polys are expended.
Here's a taste of what you posted in gif form and it shows that with better shaders these very models can look even better (they look fantastisch as they are; enough to elicit emotions):
Couldn't closer to the truth. It is a little known fact that girls in DoA (360) series are modelled with 55-60K polys and yet they look like plasticine dolls. Realism is down to imperfection, skin shader and lighting (sub surface scattering, translucency etc).
If that is how they will be used then all I want is 1:1 graphical fidelity between in-engine pre-rendered cutscene vs in-game visuals.
EDIT: It would remiss of me not to remind ourselves what characters can look like with only ~40k polys:
It would be interesting to see Naughty Dog go crazy with their "in-game" models now that they have the hardware power to pull off more realistic lighting and better skin shaders.
GG needs to show a bit more to really show off the graphics, let's see the in-game character models in action instead of helghasts with helmets.
Wishmaster92
Member
Kinda crazy but GG confirmed this is the in-game model of Echo. I know, Im skeptical too lol.
Kenshin001
Member
I'm not going to argue about BF4's campaign, BF3's campaign was terrible, but it will have a strong MP.
Do you think based on what we have seen KZ:SF will have an amazingly original and innovative SP campaign?
ProfessorMoran
Member
Kinda crazy but GG confirmed this is the in-game model of Echo. I know, Im skeptical too lol.
I wonder how they can show her more without spoiling the plot. That level of detail just isn't possible on current gen consoles, especially in terms of skin shaders and overall texture quality.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
I think it'll have a more enjoyable campaign than your typical CoD and BF affair, even if it's not hugely innovative.
I put the series on the same level as Gears when it comes to enjoyable single player campaigns. Of course that series has co-op, but overall they tend to be rather linear roller coaster rides. As I've said before, these games aren't Last of Us quality when it comes to that, but in the FPS/TPS genre there's not much high-bar competition.
Shadow Fall looks a lot more interesting to me than the previous Killzone single player campaigns were, simply because of how open the environments are now and the addition of more tactical elements and open mission objective structure similar to Goldeneye. I think the single player could surprise a lot of folks because it sounds like they're holding back on releasing a lot of info.
Of course the main reason I'm even getting KZ to begin with is for the multiplayer and they haven't even shown it. Its chances for success will mostly ride on how that mode turns out.
Kinda crazy but GG confirmed this is the in-game model of Echo. I know, Im skeptical too lol.
I'd be convinced by the new models released if they were shown in an actual screenshot instead of in the lighting test background. I want them to be in so badly.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Where have we seen an ingame character model that's not a helghast?