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Verdict reached in George Zimmerman case - Not Guilty

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MechaX said:
That's why so many people were expecting manslaughter. There, you only have to show that there was an unlawful killing mitigated by certain factors. The prosecution tried really hard to make it seem like Zimmerman had a plan to kill this teenager from the moment he laid eyes on him, but the facts just were not there.

Alternatively, you have facts like Zimmerman creating the risk of harm, Martin potentially exercising his own self-defense rights (exacerbated by Zimmerman stalking him, shouting at him, and continuing to follow him), and how using his firearm might have been an honest means of self-defense for Zimmerman, but was probably not reasonable given the circumstances (nor did Martin really escalate the fight high enough to the point where deadly force would be utilized, assuming how they argue the wounds/lack there of). That creates imperfect self-defense which is manslaughter.

That's just armchair lawyering, but I fall to see how justice is upheld when the prosecution made so many obvious bone-headed mistakes to bring things down this path. It may not be legal incompetence, but hoo fucking boy, you do not even know how deep the rabbit hole goes for a lawyer to be found incompetent in these scenarios.
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Prosecution obviously overcharged the fuck out of this case out of zealousness and that was not helped by all the racial politics which got injected into the case, however to this day I'm still surprised how this was turned into a black vs. white case when Zimmerman is hispanic.
 
So what did the defense say about the fact that Zimmerman initiated the whole conflict by stalking him for no reason (or racist, profiling reasons)? And thus Trayvon felt threatened? What was the defense against this? Why is it alright for Zimmerman to fight/shoot in self defense but not Trayvon when he's the one being followed?
 
In case this hasn't been posted it seems like even manslaughter would be hard to prove in this instance based on Florida criminal statutes - my reading of this is that it comes down to whether or not Zimmerman feared for his life:

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant;
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"The justification described in the preceding sections" includes deadly force.

The strange part is that this seems like it can result in a situation where a person being attacked could be justified in using deadly force to protect themself if they feel like "great bodily harm" was "imminent" (under 776.012), but by doing so it allows the attacker to legally kill the person they're attacking and seemingly only be criminally liable for the initial use of force (Assault) but not the deadly use of force (Homicide).

The maximum punishment for Assault in Florida is 60 days imprisonment and a $500 fine.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
Their children aren't Black...
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fox_zimmerman_laughs_130703c1.gif
 
This really makes me wonder what my reaction will be the next time I'm profiled. You become jaded to it, but this really just removes the scab for me.
 
Chumly said:
Yes why shouldn't the rich have great lawyers. Lock up the poors though. Wouldn't want them to have a defense
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Given the evidence the prosecution had, and how poorly they represented it, a public defense lawyer could have laid enough reasonable doubt
 
Stinkles said:
Cool advice. Thanks for telling us how to feel and also to not give a shit.
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Look, I know people are pissed off. This is a sad time. Really it is.

But you need to take fact that the verdict went the way it did.

If you want to take it out on anybody, do so.
 
params7 said:
If that's how this went down, I really don't see any problem here.
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The only problem is whether Trayvon was being "a punk" or felt threatened and took the opportunity to strike first (I'm more keen to the latter).

What would you do if an unknown man approaches you at night questioning your business?
 
Jaleel said:
South Florida resident here. Before the verdict was reached I predicted he would not be found guilty of second degree murder, however I was uncertain about the manslaughter charge. At the end of the day, though, the defense's case for self defense was convincing and is what ultimately led to the verdict. They articulated the following:

1) Trayvon was the one who initiated the fight.
2) As proof they stated Trayvon's corpse had no wounds other than the bullet wound while showing pictures of a wounded/bloody Zimmerman.
3) They claimed the recorded yells for help was in fact from Zimmerman during this beat down, and for good measure he had friends who testified that it was in fact his voice.
4) Because Zimmerman's head hit concrete he felt stunned and feared for his life.
5) Zimmerman's only hope to stop being attacked was to use his gun.
5) Gun forensics show that Trayvon was in fact on top of him when the gun was fired.

The above rhetoric was enough for jury to drop all charges against Zimmerman. They didn't believe beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was guilty of using excessive force in the way that he did.
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You can fear for your life all you want, but unless its a REASONABLE fear for one's life, you cannot use deadly force to stop an attacker.

The prosecution did a poor job rebutting Zimmerman's claim that he acted reasonably. It is not reasonable to presume that a fight is going to end up with someone dying.
 
It sucks that a young man life is over, but as for the case itself the media is good at exploiting it to their interest and point of views. Anything for ratings.
 
Nesotenso said:
thanks for the explanation.

so manslaughter was never brought as an alternative ?

My knowledge of the law and the related jargon comes from Law and Order unfortunately.
what charges were brought against him besides 2nd degree murder ?
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They tried to get third degree murder included later lol. Manslaughter was included later.
 
Zoramon089 said:
Wasn't hard when you fill the jury with the group stereotypically most afraid of young black males
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Evidence that Martin was a thug like phone messages about fighting was specifically excluded from the trial. But don't let that stop you from making completely baseless smears against jurors you don't even know who heard the full evidence presented when you didn't.
 
DrForester said:
Florida's crappy "Stand your Ground" law and no law to hold idiots like Zimmerman who make a series of bad decisions accountable was the problem in this case, not race
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The primary application of the 'Stand your Ground' law in this case seems to justify Zimmerman's fear and suspicion of a black kid as reason enouth to chase and ultimately shoot him. The two are inseparable for Zimmerman's acquittal.
 
Of course whites feel that they should be able to question a second class citizen without incident. It's their God given right. They see nothing wrong with that.
 
Nesotenso said:
thanks for the explanation.

so manslaughter was never brought as an alternative ?

My knowledge of the law and the related jargon comes from Law and Order unfortunately.
what charges were brought against him besides 2nd degree murder ?
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He was charged with second-degree murder and, alternatively, manslaughter. So, he could have been convicted on either of those (but not both). The prosecution tried to throw in at least one other charge at the last minute, but the court didn't permit that.
 
SonnyBoy said:
This really makes me wonder what my reaction will be the next time I'm profiled. You become jaded to it, but this really just removes the scab for me.
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Please never be jaded and indifferent to intolerance. It pisses me off that idiots stay racist, so don't become complacent to it.

This ruling really is ridiculous, chalk up another example of bullshit racism effecting a verdict.
 
Angry Fork said:
So what did the defense say about the fact that Zimmerman initiated the whole conflict by stalking him for no reason (or racist, profiling reasons)? And thus Trayvon felt threatened? What was the defense against this? Why is it alright for Zimmerman to fight/shoot in self defense but not Trayvon when he's the one being followed?
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He does have the right to defend himself from a reasonable fear of bodily harm. Nobody is talking about putting Trayvon's body in prison for assault, so I don't know why it matters in this case.
 
The irony is you have Zimmerman stereotyping Martin. The public stereotyping an all women jury and then more stereotypes thrown around about how a white person could not sympathize with Martin 'because he's black'.

Honestly I think this case has brought out the worst in just about every group involved.

My view was that the evidence was not there to convict GZ of murder. But there certainly should have been something done about the fact that he disobeyed a direct order to stand down and not follow.

I'm sure Trayvon wasn't a great kid. I think the evidence shows this fairly clearly. But GZ isn't exactly the picture of grace. I'd feel embarassed for anyone that drove around their neighborhood looking for criminals. Not to mention doing it with a loaded handgun. Dude is clearly a douchebag. But I'd have a hard time calling him a murderer. Evidence pretty clearly shows he was getting the snot kicked out of him.
 
Lord Panda said:
So let's be clear:

A kid is dead; and

The killer just got acquitted.

.. and there are arseholes in this thread high-fiving and posting celebratory gifs.

WTF is wrong with you guys.
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Hey one less punk off the street, whats not to celebrate?

Seriously tho, I'm fucking glad I live in an area where I can walk out at night and not be worried about a gun toting lunatic profile me, then follow me by car and then when I run into an area the car can't follow start tracking me by foot and then finally shoot me dead when I finally stand my ground.

The people putting up celebratory gifs just went the extra-mile to be vile as fuck. GJ.

The fucked up thing is if I were put in Trayvons situation at his age, I probably would be dead too, given that I probably would have looked far more questionable and suspicious than him by Zimmermans standards, I have questioned authority quite a lot(Zimmerman not being any recognizable authority would given me every reason to stand up for myself) and yeah I smoked weed too(still do). Shit the things I did when I was still in highschool.

I still ended up going to University for a BCS (Comp Sci), have good credit, going for my Masters program and I'm only 24.

And yet we ridicule, humiliate & demonize the memory a dead kid and glorify an overzealous cunt who pushed far beyond his authority because he's used to pushing people around and everyone taking it.

Well a kid is dead. A life that wouldn't be able to come back whether or not Zimmerman was given consequences for his actions. Ultimately the verdict is irrelevant, what really was at stake like all these trials was the future we're entering to, were an easier way to avoid retribution for killing another is made clear and a renewed sense hate & mistrust given fuel.

Fuck it I'm out.
 
ABXY said:
The only problem is whether Trayvon was being "a punk" or felt threatened and took the opportunity to strike first (I'm more keen to the latter).

What would you do if an unknown man approaches you at night questioning your business?
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I wouldn't attack him and beat him. I'm not a lunatic. I'd ask him what the problem was. If its an officer, ask him how I can help.
 
I'm curious. Who do you believe initiated the fight? Is the justice system "screwed up" because Zimmerman should've been charged regardless of who started the fight because he killed Treyvon?

If somehow evidence came to light (just hypothetically, no way this would happen) that proved that Treyvon started the fight, how would people react? Would they still be angry at the system or would they rethink their position?
 
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