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[T'Zariah]

Here I was thinking GAF was a beacon of hope in the incessant stupidity of the internet.

This fucking thread.

 

[JB1981]

Doesn't matter. You can't beat someone to death because you think someone may be following you for the wrong reason. Paranoid people don't get a legal extension for leeway.

Wow dude. There was only one paranoid person in this scenario and he's the one twisting the truth to stay out of jail

 

[Clockwork5]

and i don't buy how martin was somehow "beating zimmerman to death" when the only injuries on him prior to Gunshot to Chest were a busted nose and two superficial lacerations on the back of his head

The defense was not required to prove that martin was "beating zimmerman to death." The prosecution had to prove that zimmerman had no fear of great bodily injury. That is difficult when the defendant has a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head. The jury had a reasonable doubt.

 

[Direlect]

i notice you're outright refusing to quote me, i wonder why:

You think grass causes head wounds. What could I quote and respond to that would bring you back into our dimension of reality?

 

[DY_nasty]

What?

You sound like a fucking crazy person

 

[kehs]

Trayvon was an all-star football player with at least 5 inches on an undersized and physically unfit Zimmerman.



When being pummeled against concrete, you don't risk waiting until you're at the waning stages of your life to see if you can muster the strength to shoot someone. Zimmerman would've died fighting bare handed going by physical prowess alone.



Florida law nor a jury of Zimmerman's peers who sat through hours of testimony and deliberation thought Zimmerman overreacted.

Zimmerman had a decade of life experience, and a loaded magic bullet shooting machine on him, after he tracked down a 17 year old for walking home.

Zimmerman would have ended up at home beat up if he didn't have a gun, or gotten out of his car pretending to be crimson bolt.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Doesn't matter. You can't beat someone to death because you think someone may be following you for the wrong reason. Paranoid people don't get a legal extension for leeway.

Trayvon was the paranoid one?!

 

[Wallach]

Trayvon was the paranoid one?!

What, you think Zimmerman was going to hunt him down and kill him? Oh, right.

 

[DragonSworne]

You think grass causes head wounds. What could I quote and respond to that would bring you back into our dimension of reality?

Because there are never rocks in grass...

 

[Direlect]

The defense was not required to prove that martin was "beating zimmerman to death." The prosecution had to prove that zimmerman had no fear of great bodily injury. That is difficult when the defendant has a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head. The jury had a reasonable doubt.

Exactly. Was Zimmerman supposed to wait until he was completely incapacitated? Where do you draw the line?

 

[syllogism]

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. - A Florida woman who fired warning shots against her allegedly abusive husband has been sentenced to 20 years in prison.

Marissa Alexander of Jacksonville had said the state's "Stand Your Ground" law should apply to her because she was defending herself against her allegedly abusive husband when she fired warning shots inside her home in August 2010. She told police it was to escape a brutal beating by her husband, against whom she had already taken out a protective order.

CBS Affiliate WETV reports that Circuit Court Judge James Daniel handed down the sentence Friday.

Under Florida's mandatory minimum sentencing requirements Alexander could receive a lesser sentence, even though she has never been in trouble with the law before. Judge Daniel said the law did not allow for extenuating or mitigating circumstances to reduce the sentence below the 20-year minimum.

"I really was crying in there," Marissa's 11-year-old daughter told WETV. "I didn't want to cry in court, but I just really feel hurt. I don't think this should have been happening."

Alexander was convicted of attempted murder after she rejected a plea deal for a three-year prison sentence. She said she did not believe she did anything wrong.

She was recently denied a new trial after appealing to the judge to reconsider her case based on Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law. The law states that the victim of a crime does not have to attempt to run for safety and can immediately retaliate in self-defense.

Alexander's attorney said she was clearly defending herself and should not have to spend the next two decades behind bars.

Alexander's case has drawn support from domestic abuse advocates - and comparison to the case of neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, who has claimed a "Stand Your Ground" defense in his fatal shooting of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin.​

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

You should read a bit more about the case as that article is a gross oversimplification. If that's all you have read, you know essentially nothing about the events that took place and yet expect to be making a point about something. I guess if your point is that 10-20 life law is absurd, that's all you need.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

When being pummeled against concrete, you don't risk waiting until you're at the waning stages of your life to see if you can muster the strength to shoot someone. Zimmerman would've died fighting bare handed going by physical prowess alone.

I think you are looking at this incorrectly. The decision to declare him not guilty wasn't necessarily the end result of a jury of his peers concluding that he was absolutely in the right. I don't think you should come away from this thinking that the verdict means that the law was absolutely on Zimmerman's side, and that he handled the situation well.

All it's an indication of is that there was reasonable doubt to the prosecution's claims about what he was doing and why. Zimmerman's claim is that he feared great bodily harm or death. Did the jury absolutely believe him? Was he most certainly going to die if he didn't pull the trigger when he did? We don't know. It's possible that the jury believed him, or it's simply possible that the jury found the story plausible enough.

 

[kehs]

Exactly. Was Zimmerman supposed to wait until he was completely incapacitated? Where do you draw the line?

You draw the line when you get out of your fucking car instead of waiting for the police.

 

[RedShift]

I just don't buy how someone is allowed to beat someone to death if they think they are being followed by someone. At what point is there a legal line that is crossed where it's suddenly okay to kill someone with your bare hands? Someone clue me in on what I'm missing.

I must have missed the part where Zimmerman died.

Can you please just explain what TM SHOULD have done in this situation, where he's tied to get away from the guy stalking him and he's now following on foot? I probably would have done what he did.

 

[CrushDance]

You sound like a fucking crazy person

Kindly explain to me how I sound like "fucking" crazy person?

 

[iamshadowlark]

I think it has to be noted how the defendant acted from the moment the whole incident started. He called the police to report someone suspicious. When he ultimately shot the guy after a fight, the first thing he said when the cops showed up was about him yelling for help. He offered to sit down with the cops repeatedly, without a lawyer, even though he could have demanded one.

In other words, he never acted like someone who had something to hide. So what I'm getting at is that while on it's face it would seem this case has set a dangerous precedent, the details are always what matters, and in this case I think it's those unique details that helped Zimmerman a lot.

Yeah it is. Aggressive.

And anybody can feign care while suddenly realizing what they are about to face in court. Shooting someone with your registered pistol creates some pretty concrete circumstances, I'm sure Zimmerman knew that.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. - A Florida woman who fired warning shots against her allegedly abusive husband has been sentenced to 20 years in prison.

Marissa Alexander of Jacksonville had said the state's "Stand Your Ground" law should apply to her because she was defending herself against her allegedly abusive husband when she fired warning shots inside her home in August 2010. She told police it was to escape a brutal beating by her husband, against whom she had already taken out a protective order.

CBS Affiliate WETV reports that Circuit Court Judge James Daniel handed down the sentence Friday.

Under Florida's mandatory minimum sentencing requirements Alexander could receive a lesser sentence, even though she has never been in trouble with the law before. Judge Daniel said the law did not allow for extenuating or mitigating circumstances to reduce the sentence below the 20-year minimum.

"I really was crying in there," Marissa's 11-year-old daughter told WETV. "I didn't want to cry in court, but I just really feel hurt. I don't think this should have been happening."

Alexander was convicted of attempted murder after she rejected a plea deal for a three-year prison sentence. She said she did not believe she did anything wrong.

She was recently denied a new trial after appealing to the judge to reconsider her case based on Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law. The law states that the victim of a crime does not have to attempt to run for safety and can immediately retaliate in self-defense.

Alexander's attorney said she was clearly defending herself and should not have to spend the next two decades behind bars.

Alexander's case has drawn support from domestic abuse advocates - and comparison to the case of neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, who has claimed a "Stand Your Ground" defense in his fatal shooting of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin.​

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

What is going on in Florida?

 

[JB1981]

Exactly. Was Zimmerman supposed to wait until he was completely incapacitated? Where do you draw the line?

Yo Zimmerman was beaten so badly he went home and went to bed while Trayvon's dead corpse went to the morgue.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

What, you think Zimmerman was going to hunt him down and kill him? Oh, right.

Zimmerman should have been nowhere near the kid in the first place. He chased after him because he was bl- I mean "suspicious".

 

[linsivvi]

I like it that all the GZ supporters keep using the "almost beaten to death" bs.

Who are we kidding here? Hey there's a unicorn over there!

 

[Azn_Boy]

Zimmerman did not initiate anything. It was Trayvon who came back 4 minutes after he made a phone call who initiated the assault.

Trayvon had Zimmerman mounted and landed blows to his face and struck Zimmerman's head to the pavement. This was proven by the back of Zimmerman's head and the grass stains on his clothes and Trayvon's knees. There was also a witness who saw the incident saying they saw a dark figure on top and light skinned figure on the bottom. In self-defense, Zimmerman pulled out a gun and shot Trayvon in the chest. Due to the stand-your-ground law, Zimmerman had the right to strike a deadly blow.

A little background, Zimmerman is half white, half peruvian but identifies himself as hispanic. He is also overweight and fat while Trayvon was a highschool linebacker. Trayvon has also been suspended from school on multiple occasions and was found to be in possession of some amount of jewelry and a screwdriver. I don't remember if he had cannabis in his body at the time, it's been a while since I read the case.

Due to political and media pressure, the state forced prosecution to push for a trial. They barely, I repeat, BARELY had any concrete evidence to prove the shooting was a second degree murder. They fired multiple staffers and investigators because they could not find any leading evidence. Eventually, the state assigned a new prosecutor (Angela Corey) and she wanted to push for manslaughter LOL.

So going into the trial, the defendants, O'Mara and West stated the facts, show evidence that the shooting was in self-defense, etc. The prosecutors did a shitty job, they had no proof, no evidence, and they had to persuade the six jurors without a shadow of a doubt that the shooting was 2nd-murder and manslaughter.

As for the whole racism and civil rights thing, that is a load of bull. The media saw that Zimmerman was half white and took advantage of the situation. Now all the liberals (Which is the majority of people using social media) are spewing a lot of ignorant things. In America you are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

 

[Derwind]

Trayvon was an all-star football player with at least 5 inches on an undersized and physically unfit Zimmerman.

You want to go tgat direction, Zimmerman was a trained MMA fighter, with at least 40lbs on Trayvon.

When being pummeled against concrete, you don't risk waiting until you're at the waning stages of your life to see if you can muster the strength to shot someone. Zimmerman would've died fighting bare handed going by physical prowess alone.

Bullshit hyperbole. He wasn't pummeled, his minor injuries do not reflect that rhetoric at all. And now you're resorting to making up facts suggesting he would have died fighting bare handed.

Florida law nor a jury of Zimmerman's peers who sat through hours of testimony and deliberation thought Zimmerman overreacted.

No, he did overreact, the prosecution didn't make enough of an argument to rule out reasonable doubt. Not that Zimmerman is innocent nor that anyone in that courtroom didn't feel that he overreacted.

 

[Direlect]

Edit: Blargh. Forget it. This is not solving anything.

Like I've said time and time again and have learned myself. Seeking acceptance from white people or anyone really, is the dumbest thing one can do. The only way for someone to be free, is for that person to be able to defend their body and spirit. Black people are incapable of that in the racial game. And until they are, don't expect to be treated any differently.

That pathetic civil rights acts was passed just recently in history. A "here, now stop whining" legislation. Obama got elected and again the same thing "Stop whining". And it's sad how these tokens often work to placate people in the present. Wake up people, there is a 400+ year gap here psychologically and socially.

Instead of arguing on the internet or at all even. People should crack open some books and study, do for yourself. And become strong. You think that when little Timmy won't eat his vegetables and his parents say "There's starving children in Africa" and then Timmy goes to school and learns about "African Americans", that he doesn't make the connection? You think that when a white comedian cracks a joke about black people being unable to travel back in time or uses "I'm white" and people laugh, they don't make a connection?

Saying you're white is saying "I'm the boss!". That is why people destroy their natural features to try and match that. That's why people hate themselves for not being white, and are relegated to third class. Third world. Everyone is playing by the rules that one person has put up. That's not a fair game.

Stop and pay attention to the wording and words that swirl around you.

You need to address your racial paranoia before you make an objective judgement here. I'm not blaming you for being emotional, but at the end of the day - this isn't a healthy thought process. For what it's worth to you, if Zimmerman and Trayvon switched shoes, I fully believe Trayvon would be in the right to defend himself.

 

[Loudninja]

Zimmerman did not initiate anything. It was Trayvon who came back 4 minutes after he made a phone call who initiated the assault.

Trayvon had Zimmerman mounted and landed blows to his face and struck Zimmerman's head to the pavement. This was proven by the back of Zimmerman's head and the grass stains on his clothes and Trayvon's knees. There was also a witness who saw the incident saying they saw a dark figure on top and light skinned figure on the bottom. In self-defense, Zimmerman pulled out a gun and shot Trayvon in the chest. Due to the stand-your-ground law, Zimmerman had the right to strike a deadly blow.

A little background, Zimmerman is half white, half peruvian but identifies himself as hispanic. He is also overweight and fat while Trayvon was a highschool linebacker. Trayvon has also been suspended from school on multiple occasions and was found to be in possession of some amount of jewelry and a screwdriver. I don't remember if he had cannabis in his body at the time, it's been a while since I read the case.

Due to political and media pressure, the state forced prosecution to push for a trial. They barely, I repeat, BARELY had any concrete evidence to prove the shooting was a second degree murder. They fired multiple staffers and investigators because they could not find any leading evidence. Eventually, the state assigned a new prosecutor (Angela Corey) and she wanted to push for manslaughter LOL.

So going into the trial, the defendants, O'Mara and West stated the facts, show evidence that the shooting was in self-defense, etc. The prosecutors did a shitty job, they had no proof, no evidence, and they had to persuade the six jurors without a shadow of a doubt that the shooting was 2nd-murder and manslaughter.

As for the whole racism and civil rights thing, that is a load of bull. The media saw that Zimmerman was half white and took advantage of the situation. Now all the liberals (Which is the majority of people using social media) are spewing a lot of ignorant things. In America you are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Show me proof of that.

 

[Sax_Man]

Here I was thinking GAF was a beacon of hope in the incessant stupidity of the internet.

This fucking thread.

It really is embarrassing. It lowers my opinion of the discourse at NeoGAF quite a bit. I never expected to see such bile and righteous judgement.

Does anyone really think that all of the facts, opinions, and theories presented and debated here were not discussed in the courtroom by the jurors?

 

[Clockwork5]

I think you are looking at this incorrectly. The decision to declare him not guilty wasn't necessarily the end result of a jury of his peers concluding that he was absolutely in the right. I don't think you should come away from this thinking that the verdict means that the law was absolutely on Zimmerman's side, and that he handled the situation well.

All it's an indication of is that there was reasonable doubt to the prosecutions claims about what he was doing and why. Zimmerman's claim is that he feared great bodily harm or death. Did the jury absolutely believe him? Was he most certainly going to die if he didn't pull the trigger when he did? We don't know. It's possible that the jury believed him, or it's simply possible that the jury found the story plausible enough.

well stated. Just so those of you who i am debating know, I am not defending Zimmerman... I am defending the jury. Zimmerman is an idiot and will most likely loose the civil suit, where the burden of proof is much lower.

 

[CrushDance]

You need to address your racial paranoia before you make an objective judgement here. I'm not blaming you for being emotional, but at the end of the day - this isn't a healthy thought process. For what it's worth to you, if Zimmerman and Trayvon switched shoes, I fully believe Trayvon would be in the right to defend himself.

Erm. I'm not being emotional. I'm stating facts. Do people not use the term white as hammer? Saying that one is paranoid when there are endless examples of the divide within America is doing the word a great disservice. I mean, the terms "Black America" and "White America" come from where? Aren't you all Americans?

 

[Direlect]

When you're fighting someone who's followed you from the store and you discover they have a gun, it becomes a life or death struggle.

And its not like Z grossly exaggerated his injuries leading up to this trial as well lol. Dude was really trying to base his defense around shaken baby syndrome before it got laughed out of the courthouse.

The jurors who actually heard all aspects of the case and medical examiner didn't believe he exaggerated his injuries. If everyone made it their prerogative to tell other people when they are incapacitated enough to defend their own life, I'd suspect we'd have a lot of dead people.

 

[eBay Huckster]

The defense was not required to prove that martin was "beating zimmerman to death." The prosecution had to prove that zimmerman had no fear of great bodily injury. That is difficult when the defendant has a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head. The jury had a reasonable doubt.

and what the defense was required to prove - indeed, literally anything related to the trial - is completely irrelevant to that post, given what posts i'm responding to

You think grass causes head wounds. What could I quote and respond to that would bring you back into our dimension of reality?

you think forcible and repeated impact with concrete caused by the athletic equivalent of prime lebron james to zimmerman's cavs-era shawn kemp, the way you're painting them, is going to result in SUPERFICIAL head wounds

i'm pretty sure i'm not the one operating outside the bounds of known reality

 

[Dash27]

I'm not upset about the outcome because of how it effects social/race stances. I'm upset because you can start a fight and kill someone in Florida and walk away.

Your original point so far as I could tell was that 'they' wouldnt even bother to identify the body because he wasnt white. Presumably due to racism.

 

[kehs]

Direlect has 11 posts total, joined in 2005.

All but one in this thread......

 

[linsivvi]

What is going on in Florida?

Disgusting.

Warning shot: 20 years

Cold-blooded murder of a teenager: Not guilty

 

[TAJ]

I can't wait until a mugger starts to lose control of the situation, pulls a gun and shoots the intended victim in the face, then claims self-defense.

Or even better, a rapist.

 

[Clockwork5]

and what the defense was required to prove - indeed, literally anything related to the trial - is completely irrelevant to that post, given what posts i'm responding to

My bad, I thought this was a thread about the Not Guilty verdict in the George Zimmerman trial.

 

[rinse82]

Direlect has 11 posts total, joined in 2005.

All but one in this thread......

What a horrible coming out party then.

 

[eBay Huckster]

My bad, I thought this was a thread about the Not Guilty verdict in the George Zimmerman trial.

my bad, i thought every one of my posts on this page was responding to someone whose entire NeoGAF posting history, in seven years on the site, consists of warping reality around the premise that zimmerman was in the process of being beaten to death on concrete

 

[Ploid 3.0]

He is also overweight and fat while Trayvon was a highschool linebacker.

I Zimm wasn't fat on the date of the crime. He got plump after, probably ordered to or to enjoy everything he could in case he was found guilty. He sure seemed less threatening plump.

 

[theignoramus]

not unexpected but the verdict is gross.

 

[Direlect]

my bad, i thought every one of my posts on this page was responding to someone whose entire NeoGAF posting history, in seven years on the site, consists of warping reality around the premise that zimmerman was in the process of being beaten to death on concrete

It was the reality for the 6 people that know more about this case than any other person in this thread.

 

[travisbickle]

I just don't buy how someone is allowed to beat someone to death if they think they are being followed by someone. At what point is there a legal line that is crossed where it's suddenly okay to kill someone with your bare hands? Someone clue me in on what I'm missing.

You've made a mistake, Zimmerman killed him with a gun not his bare hands.

 

[eBay Huckster]

It was the reality for the 6 people that know more about this case than any other person in this thread.

that's interesting, because i'm fairly sure those six people had access to the same medical information as everyone else, otherwise i wouldn't be bringing up lacerations and busted noses

 

[Pandaman]

Someone with a history of physically assaulting people, talk about straw men.

The juror example is to demonstrate that someone with a history of making the same actions would naturally be sympathetic to someone else doing the same, regardless of whether or not those actions were equally justifiable. In short, we don't let biased people decide these things because they're biased. Dismissing someone for not being biased enough through their own history of victimization [real or perceived] is a bit silly.

He followed him, he tried to lose him, he kept following him. He admitted to following him. What the fuck do some of you think that means to someone out on the street at night alone? That the person just wants to talk over some tea?

Well, thats the whole problem in a nutshell. Zimmerman followed Trayvon because he wanted to know how Trayvon got his tea. Confronting someone you think means you harm and then giving them an excuse to harm you has its risks and according to a Florida court, is not reasonable.

[i'm just assuming the string of crimes that set Zimmerman off were retail in nature, don't really know.]

 

[Clockwork5]

my bad, i thought every one of my posts on this page was responding to someone whose entire neoGAF posting history consists of warping reality around the premise that zimmerman was in the process of being beaten to death on concrete

There were multiple witnesses who confirmed this may have been the case.

 

[Like the hat?]

Case went just as I assumed it would. The only person guilty in the people's eyes is the young black male

 

[snap0212]

[...]

Tell me where I'm wrong when I say that Zimmerman, at all time prior to the confrontation itself, could have avoided the situation completely. Zimmerman approached Martin after he was told that he shouldn't do that. Up until the point where the confrontation escalated, there was only one party that could have avoided all of this and that was Zimmerman. He didn't. Zimmerman knew/thought that he was in charge otherwise he wouldn't have approached Martin at all.

 

[syllogism]

It was the reality for the 6 people that know more about this case than any other person in this thread.

The verdict has little to do with what you are claiming

 

[Dude Abides]

The jurors who actually heard all aspects of the case and medical examiner didn't believe he exaggerated his injuries. If everyone made it their prerogative to tell other people when they are incapacitated enough to defend their own life, I'd suspect we'd have a lot of dead people.

The medical examiner testified his injuries were not consistent with a pummeling. Please don't spread misinformation.

 

[DY_nasty]

Kindly explain to me how I sound like "fucking" crazy person?

You know what, CD? I failed you.

I should've let you know in extreme detail how amazingly far off the rocker you were when you posted that "success story of enlightenment" back in the BCT. Its so painfully obvious to anyone who's seen your posting history that every single fault you find in yourself you tie to a history that you can never address past a storybook level. Its been an ongoing thing. And when you go off on these tangents reminiscent of "The White Devil" like some crusty corner store preacher its just fucking embarrassing. To yourself, to everyone who ever took you seriously. Do you think you're right? One of two things. You don't - and its a muffled cry for help because you can't muster up the balls needed to take the steps towards progress that you need. Those are hard, uphill steps and if you need help then by all means get that shit. OR you do. And you're a fucking crazy person who - and I truly hate to say this shit - does nothing but make it seem to some that every black person has a hidden crazy, superstitious, unreasonable, zealot of some quasi-eqyptian/scientological new world order buffoonery.

Your schtick is fucking old dude.

Between your made up "Some kids walked up to me and called me a nigger today " and your wound up boogie man stories that somehow highlight and exaggerate each and every moment in history as "The White Devil" at work, its really played out.

 

[TunaMarshmallow]

Florida law nor a jury of Zimmerman's peers who sat through hours of testimony and deliberation thought Zimmerman overreacted.

I fucking hate reading shit like this. And I hate hearing Zimmerman's brother say that the jury "made their view very clear".

For all we know, every single member of the jury strongly, strongly believes that Zimmerman is a moral criminal who acted egregiously (and, yes, overreacted). That's completely compatible with them believing that the state's case didn't prove *beyond a reasonable doubt* that he was guilty of violating the law.

 

[eBay Huckster]

There were multiple witnesses who confirmed this may have been the case.

i'm going to believe the medical examiner before i believe what was conflicting eyewitness testimony at best, and, um...

The medical examiner testified his injuries were not consistent with a pummeling. Please don't spread misinformation.