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[SloaneRisette]

Oh I forgot to mention one important thing... as compared to the E3 build now EVERYTHING is breakable in the EVO build. This includes Linkers and Enders as well.

I already hated what I saw, this just reaffirms my thoughts.

 

[Edgeward]

c-c-c-c-c-c-canceled pre-order

 

[CurlyW]

I'm back from Evo. Buncha things happened.

Smash people were cool. They were more hype during pools than everybody else was during quarters and semis.

The decision to switch to 3/5 after 8am pools were ran 2/3 was a horrible mistake.

My friend got 3rd in the pool that Ranmasama and Flux were in. Had Flux not been put into that pool, he would've gotten out. Meanwhile, the pool I was running at the same time and at the same table had two byes and was free as all hell apart from JJJ. Why Flux wasn't put into that pool I'll never know.

Bubblan7 disappeared for an hour during Marvel quarters because he was playing Divekick. We were somehow unable to find the tallest, whitest person in the hotel.

Filipino Champ was sitting outside the box and threw a fit when he was told to move.

I didn't know Daigo had such a good Zero, or such a convincing Flocker costume.

I'm pretty exhausted. Sad it's another year away.

 

[call_kotaku]

I agree. I used to bring this up on SRK back in the day but people would avoid the question like the plague. No one wants to talk about how embarrassingly little these prizes are.

It needs to change for the scene to grow. Sad as it is, more money attracts more attention.

Front-loaded payouts meant to attract attention generally don't do wonders for the health of the competitive community, and probably encourage things like pot splits and whatnot. I'd rather have the top 16 make back their entries and then some, instead of the winner getting a massive payday. People complain about these sorts of things in esports all the time, when the absolute top player earns over 300,000 in a single year from winnings alone, while the next tier of players practice 16 hours a day and have to live on ramen. Besides, prize money shouldn't be the primary revenue source for players anyways, even professional ones.

I think the only way to raise the pot is to get a bigger pot bonus from publishers/developers, try to get more entrants, or to raise the entry fee. Massively increasing the entry fee isn't viable, I think, seeing as a big portion of the entrants will go 0-2 and there'll be a sense that it's a bit exploitative. Getting a 5000 dollar pot bonus from the publisher seems reasonable, as EVO is probably the most effective marketing for their games to their target demographic.

Honest question... where do e-sports get money from (aside from the game companies like Riot/Blizzard/Valve)?

Venture capital, sponsorships, ads, but mostly venture capital and direct injections from game companies.

 

[Dahbomb]

The reason they opted for everything being breakable is that they said otherwise the game would devolve into a few set of unbreakable combos. They are basically going in all the way with the whole "combos = mind game" angle.

 

[CurlyW]

Honest question... where do e-sports get money from (aside from the game companies like Riot/Blizzard/Valve)?

Dreamhack has sponsors like Energizer, but it's important to remember that Dreamhack is a LAN festival and electronics expo first and a video and computer game tournament second.

 

[The Last Emperor]

What's there to talk about? It's not like the FGC has the money to make these pots bigger. The question probably wasn't avoided; there just isn't a solution. Gonna be hard pressed to ask more from players who will always complain about any price increase. I don't see how you can ask the TOs (most of which are losing money or making very little) to sacrifice even more money. There just isn't a good solution. I'm also anti-esports, but they have to make money if they're going to sponsor FGC events. Not sure what they'd make money selling.

remember that 50 bucks of every person at evo got paid directly to the organizers, in addition to stream revenue.

Not gonna say anything about most TO's as I know they are making very little/losing money.

Specifically for Evo, its really sad that Dieminion only made like 300 bucks last year and Xian made less than 4k this year.

Sucks for them, but I couldn't care less as I had an amazing time stream monstering

 

[BillyBones]

Honest question... where do e-sports get money from (aside from the game companies like Riot/Blizzard/Valve)?

Venture capitalists. So it's not a question of making money. It's about losing money slowly enough that they can last until the inevitable day that e-sports take off and all the VCs make 20 times their investment. (Don't hold your breath.)

 

[Slamtastic]

Injustice should be 3/5 says producer

 

[CurlyW]

lmao, what a terrible post

remember that 50 bucks of every person at evo got paid directly to the organizers.

You're right, and they don't have to pay for anything!

Except the venue
And the food
And the stage
And the systems, games, TVs, DLC, surge protectors, cables, internet, etc.
And printed materials such as all the brackets
And promotional materials
And people to stream everything
And a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting or haven't even thought about

But apart from that, they're making out like bandits!

 

[QisTopTier]

remember that 50 bucks of every person at evo got paid directly to the organizers.

Uh... and the organizers payed for the event it's not free.

 

[Duxxy3]

If their was no pot bonus then the pay has gone down now since the percentages have changed, I assume. I remember Fuudo saying he won 10k back in 2011 and Viscant said he won 8500 or something when he won backin 2011. Only 4-5k for Marvel and SF4 seems kind of depressing. It's just such a big and prestigious tournament that only that amount of money doesn't seem to do it justice.

Because Capcom doesn't put money into community tournaments, only their own capcom events.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Someone start talking about VxG or some shit before we start looping back into the "How much do TOs make?" discussion again for the 80th time.

 

[Dahbomb]

Injustice should be 3/5 says producer

I agree 100%.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

I'd make all WF/LF/GF 3/5 before I made all of Injustice 3/5.

 

[Edgeward]

I wonder if TOs swim in their piles of money like Scrooge McDuck

 

[SloaneRisette]

I wonder if TOs swim in their piles of money like Scrooge McDuck

You know how Scrooge McDuck has that Money Bin?

Wizard has one but with McRibs in it.

 

[Sheroking]

The match up isn't as lop sided as you may think. Wolverine mauls Vergil and Hawkeye, he just has to survive against Zero. Storm at second position keeps Zero in check and with enough meter Storm can inflict enough chip damage on Zero to force him into a mistake. Justin's whole plan was to get Zero to block a Tatsu and he would float with Storm for a good 20-30 seconds just for that one mix up opportunity.

Justin's biggest challenge though was ChrisG. Every other match up was within his team's power to defeat. The last match he lost was because he got greedy trying to kill Zero without meter, he was feeling himself a bit too much there from all the hype powering him.

Wolverine without an assist doesn't maul Vergil with meter, or with Hawkeye assist for that matter. As soon as Flocker activates X-Factor, all three of Justin's characters are irrelevant next to Zero or Vergil.

It's obviously not as bad as Morridoom, but still - his team loses the match-up.

 

[SolarPowered]

They gotta figure out how to get smash to 3/5 first and foremost. Shit was hype.

Don't know about Injustice.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Is flocker gonna win da beech too?

 

[call_kotaku]

Games in injustice should be shorter, or just adopt the round system instead of 2 halves of a total health bar. I don't think people would think the game was so unhype if it played out in more manageable chunks. I don't remember many comebacks from a massive disadvantage, so really why should the "round" be twice as long.

 

[SloaneRisette]

They gotta figure out how to get smash to 3/5 first and foremost. Shit was hype.

Don't know about Injustice.

I thought Winner's Finals was going to be 3/5

Apparently Hungrybox thought that was the case too

Damn what a great match that was.

 

[SolarPowered]

Anyone got a timestamp on Smash finals?

Edit: KOF too

I thought Winner's Finals was going to be 3/5

Apparently Hungrybox thought that was the case too

Damn what a great match that was.

So much salt

 

[KidA Seven]

What's there to talk about? It's not like the FGC has the money to make these pots bigger. The question probably wasn't avoided; there just isn't a solution. Gonna be hard pressed to ask more from players who will always complain about any price increase. I don't see how you can ask the TOs (most of which are losing money or making very little) to sacrifice even more money. There just isn't a good solution. I'm also anti-esports, but they have to make money if they're going to sponsor FGC events. Not sure what they'd make money selling.

If MLG can convince companies to give out more than $20,000 for a Halo tournament with only 4000 viewers, then Evo with its current attendance and viewership can get companies to do the same.

 

[secretanchitman]

Had a fucking blast at EVO. Watching the marvel finals solidified me in going next year. Seriously, watching Justin Wong almost win Marvel was unbelievable. Some thoughts...

-Did not like the segregation of watching it live and watching a stream on the last day. It sucks for people who don't know if they can attend EVO until the last minute. Also seeing ads during the stream was really annoying.
-Hated not being able to bring in outside food (obviously it was for Ballys to make money but it didn't prevent me from sneaking in coke/Pepsi )
-Saying that the tournament was in Paris but really in Ballys was a little silly.
-Infiltration using Hakan. Absolutely phenomenal performance.
-Use 360s next year and not PS3s. The lag was definitely there and felt it during my UMVC3 matches.
-Melee finals and Mango. The guy really deserved the win and it was really nice to see Smash at EVO again.
-Have it in Chicago next year
-Hated the switch from 2/3 to 3/5. Made everything run late and people were pissed off.

Overall, this was absolutely the best EVO I've seen in years. Great matches, completely new world champions and some sweet new tech. 110% going next year.

 

[Dahbomb]

Wolverine without an assist doesn't maul Vergil with meter, or with Hawkeye assist for that matter. As soon as Flocker activates X-Factor, all three of Justin's characters are irrelevant next to Zero or Vergil.

It's obviously not as bad as Morridoom, but still - his team loses the match-up.

I never said he wins the match up, just that it isn't as bad as it may appear. Wolverine does not give Vergil space to use meter and destroys him on incoming same for Hawkeye. No way is Hawkeye calling assist when Wolverine is on his ass. Justin is never going to go in without an assist. Flocker rarely uses XF for Zero (because the character absolutely does not need it) and Vergil still has to respect the other team a bit if they are sitting on XF. You can give Hawkeye XF, assists, meters etc. he is going to get mauled by Wolverine it's his top 3 worst match up.

For Justin, Zero was 70% of the problem for his team. Most of the time when Justin killed Zero, Vergil and Hawkeye didn't get to play.

 

[Ultimadrago]

I hope the netcode is magically better. :<

RIP

 

[Lost Fragment]

If MLG can convince companies to give out more than $20,000 for a Halo tournament with only 4000 viewers, then Evo with its current attendance and viewership can get companies to do the same.

The problem is that negotiating this shit and finding these sponsors is a full-time job.

 

[Duxxy3]

I never said he wins the match up, just that it isn't as bad as it may appear. Wolverine does not give Vergil space to use meter and destroys him on incoming same for Hawkeye. No way is Hawkeye calling assist when Wolverine is on his ass. Justin is never going to go in without an assist. Flocker never uses XF for Zero (because the character absolutely does not need it) and Vergil still has to respect the other team a bit if they are sitting on XF. You can give Hawkeye XF, assists, meters etc. he is going to get mauled by Wolverine it's his top 3 worst match up.

For Justin, Zero was 70% of the problem for his team. Most of the time when Justin killed Zero, Vergil and Hawkeye didn't get to play.

Flocker made a couple comebacks with Hawkeye xf3.

 

[QisTopTier]

I wonder if the reason people think storm isn't that good is because they always expect touch of death stuff from everyone.

 

[KidA Seven]

The problem is that negotiating this shit and finding these sponsors is a full-time job.

I should have clarified that I don't really want to criticize them for this past tournament, but that they should be looking for someone to do that job for the next Evo.

 

[irfaanator]

I thought Winner's Finals was going to be 3/5

Apparently Hungrybox thought that was the case too

Damn what a great match that was.

that look hungrybox gave, my god you could just feel the salt overflowing

 

[Skab]

The crowd doing Akumas fireball sound during the grand finals was amazing.

 

[Dahbomb]

Flocker made a couple comebacks with Hawkeye xf3.

I know he did, I made a comment about how people were not talking about Flocker's Hawkeye enough. That said Hawkeye kills Storm and Akuma reasonably well so if he gets a lucky hit on Wolverine it's his game. Otherwise Wolverine mauls him pretty hard.

Flocker made a couple Hawkeye comebacks but Justin made comebacks with Storm and Akuma as well. XF allows you nullify match up advantages a tad bit.... if you get the space to play that is.

 

[biosnake20]

If MLG can convince companies to give out more than $20,000 for a Halo tournament with only 4000 viewers, then Evo with its current attendance and viewership can get companies to do the same.

Wait where did they say there was only 4k viewers for Halo? I used to watch and play halo 2/3 religiously. 4k would be very surprising for those games.

 

[Dahbomb]

I wonder if the reason people think storm isn't that good is because they always expect touch of death stuff from everyone.

No she isn't that good because she has awful zoning tools (70% of her movelist is garbage), mediocre meter gain on her combos, no LVL3, obtuse super jump hit confirms (unlike the other fliers), semi limited throw game and poor assists. In XF2/XF3 she becomes legitimately powerful because half of her problems are rectified.

She is viable due to these few tools: Reliable TAC infinites, Hailstorm DHC, some good normals especially j.S and st.S, phenomenal mobility, good high low mix ups and float plus jump cancel normals.

Random fact but if Storm had a slightly faster Typhoon Justin would've won EVO.

 

[Grecco]

Man i just got from Evo and want to freeze myself to make the wait for next year seem faster

 

[call_kotaku]

I should have clarified that I don't really want to criticize them for this past tournament, but that they should be looking for someone to do that job for the next Evo.

Evo tried that before, and also partnered with MLG for one year, it's not really a good fit for the tournament. I think Toyota sponsored them one year but really who's going to buy a Toyota because they sponsored EVO?

There's a reason why MLG events and EVO have such a different feel. I wouldn't call MLG or IPL or whatever exploitative, but it's obvious that their priorities in demographics go something like "Game publishers > rich people who want to invest in the next NFL > Non-gaming sports fans > Casual gamers > esports fans > esports players", which directly influence how the entire thing is presented. In some ways the ends justify the means, but I can understand why EVO prioritizes people who attend the event above all else, and try to cater to the interests of the community instead of catering to sponsors or general growth. There's also the issue of basically YOLO footdiving into unproven business models.

 

[Azure J]

Anyone got a timestamp on Smash finals?

Edit: KOF too

So much salt

Smash is like 3:18:00 in on srkevo1 I believe.

 

[Karsticles]

You're right, and they don't have to pay for anything!

Except the venue
And the food
And the stage
And the systems, games, TVs, DLC, surge protectors, cables, internet, etc.
And printed materials such as all the brackets
And promotional materials
And people to stream everything
And a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting or haven't even thought about

But apart from that, they're making out like bandits!

Needs to be quoted more so certain people stop talking out of their ass.

 

[Banananana]

Esports' promise of massive payouts, fame and fortune, really shouldn't blind the FGC at this point. Remember, IPL went bankrupt cause they were burning money on useless shit like afterparties (apparently) and spend more money paying commentators than players. It's better for the FGC to have a realistic and sustainable system rather than something based on borrowed money, and given how EVO just keeps getting bigger and bigger each year, I don't see any reason why anything should change any time soon.

 

[KidA Seven]

Wait where did they say there was only 4k viewers for Halo? I used to watch and play halo 2/3 religiously. 4k would be very surprising for those games.

I used to be into competitive Halo. The competitive community isn't as big as the current FGC. They never released concurrent viewership numbers, but they released total viewership numbers. They were extremely happy that they got 500k total back in 2008 or 2009 for all games. That number is easily surpassed by Evo. The 2nd Evo stream got 4 million total viewers.

They had around 2-3k concurrent viewers on twitch during Halo Reach.


Still they were able to get $20k for Halo 1st place, and I think 2nd place got $12k or $8k (can't remember). Nationals would get 1st place in Halo would get $100k for the 4 player team.

Evo tried that before, and also partnered with MLG for one year, it's not really a good fit for the tournament. I think Toyota sponsored them one year but really who's going to buy a Toyota because they sponsored EVO?

There's a reason why MLG events and EVO have such a different feel. I wouldn't call MLG or IPL or whatever exploitative, but it's obvious that their priorities in demographics go something like "Game publishers > rich people who want to invest in the next NFL > Non-gaming sports fans > Casual gamers > esports fans > esports players", which directly influence how the entire thing is presented. In some ways the ends justify the means, but I can understand why EVO prioritizes people who attend the event above all else, and try to cater to the interests of the community instead of catering to sponsors or general growth. There's also the issue of basically YOLO footdiving into unproven business models.

I understand what you're saying, but MLG also used to have 3-4 big sponsors. If Evo can get just one big sponsor, the prize money would be a big improvement over this year and they wouldn't have to run as much commercials like MLG did because their viewers aren't as big compared to current Evo. Commercial time is all relative to what viewership you can guarantee to sponsors. I'm comparing MLG from 2007-2009 where Starcraft wasn't there and Halo was the main game.

 

[Eternal Flame]

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/6dhv20/killer-instinct-mechanics-walkthrough

Its funny how in the video it says they changed it to everything breakable to basically cut down on combo breakers (and unbreakable combos), but then you watch the evo build where there was combo breakers like crazy. Looks like they goofed on this one.

Also I don't think a game needs a lot of different mechanics to be fun or interesting. This is why I think KI 1 is better than 2. In two they added so much unnecessary stuff it ended up not being as fun to me.

 

[cdkee]

Had a fucking blast at EVO. Watching the marvel finals solidified me in going next year. Seriously, watching Justin Wong almost win Marvel was unbelievable. Some thoughts...

-Did not like the segregation of watching it live and watching a stream on the last day. It sucks for people who don't know if they can attend EVO until the last minute. Also seeing ads during the stream was really annoying.
-Hated not being able to bring in outside food (obviously it was for Ballys to make money but it didn't prevent me from sneaking in coke/Pepsi )
-Saying that the tournament was in Paris but really in Ballys was a little silly.
-Infiltration using Hakan. Absolutely phenomenal performance.
-Use 360s next year and not PS3s. The lag was definitely there and felt it during my UMVC3 matches.
-Melee finals and Mango. The guy really deserved the win and it was really nice to see Smash at EVO again.
-Have it in Chicago next year
-Hated the switch from 2/3 to 3/5. Made everything run late and people were pissed off.

Overall, this was absolutely the best EVO I've seen in years. Great matches, completely new world champions and some sweet new tech. 110% going next year.

I think Sony sponsors Evo (or used to?), so that's why they use PS3s.

 

[Busaiku]

Hey guys, I'm gonna be doing online tournaments for Guilty Gear XX Accent Core +, BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend, and Persona 4 Arena.

Eligible for North American PS3 players only.

It'll be a swiss tournament, going on for about a month.
Signups end about 2 weeks from now (tournament begins same day).
Haven't completely ironed out everything, but that's the basic gist of it (wanted to get this in the thread now, since more people are probably checking it out post Evo and all).

Send me a PM if you want to sign up.
Include your PSN and the games you want to play.

There'll different prize for each game.

For Persona 4 Arena, the Persona 4 Arena Original Design Works

For Guilty Gear XX Accent Core +, the Guilty Gear Original Sound Collection

For BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend, the Fraternity shirt from Brokentier

I'll make a thread next week, you can sign up there too, if you want, I guess.
And I'll post this in the games' official threads.

 

[Karsticles]

Hey guys, I'm gonna be doing online tournaments for Guilty Gear XX Accent Core +, BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend, and Persona 4 Arena.

Eligible for North American PS3 players only.

It'll be a swiss tournament, going on for about a month.
Signups end about 2 weeks from now (tournament begins same day).
Haven't completely ironed out everything, but that's the basic gist of it (wanted to get this in the thread now, since more people are probably checking it out post Evo and all).

Send me a PM if you want to sign up.
Include your PSN and the games you want to play.

There'll different prize for each game.

For Persona 4 Arena, the Persona 4 Arena Original Design Works


For Guilty Gear XX Accent Core +, the Guilty Gear Isuka Original Soundtrack


For BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend, the Fraternity shirt from Brokentier


I'll make a thread next week, you can sign up there too, if you want, I guess.
And I'll post this in the games' official threads.

Very cool of you to do this.

 

[call_kotaku]

I used to be into competitive Halo. The competitive community isn't as big as the current FGC. They never released concurrent viewership numbers, but they released total viewership numbers. They were extremely happy that they got 500k total back in 2008 or 2009 for all games. That number is easily surpassed by Evo. The 2nd Evo stream got 4 million total viewers.

They had around 2-3k concurrent viewers on twitch during Halo Reach.


Still they were able to get $20k for Halo 1st place, and I think 2nd place got $12k or $8k (can't remember). Nationals would get 1st place in Halo would get $100k for the 4 player team.




I understand what you're saying, but MLG also used to have 3-4 big sponsors. If Evo can get just one big sponsor, the prize money would be a big improvement over this year and they wouldn't have to run as much commercials like MLG did because their viewers aren't as big compared to current Evo. Commercial time is all relative to what viewership you can guarantee to sponsors. I'm comparing MLG from 2007-2009 where Starcraft wasn't there and Halo was the main game.

Raw viewership isn't the issue, though. The jump from 4k to 120k is several magnitudes, but 120k for an annual event is still somewhat inconsequential for a lot of people. Sponsors and investors put money into MLG because they were hoping it'd blow up to something really big, like UFC or poker post-WSOP, not because 4k people tuned in. There's a reason why MLG streams are always relatively shit, especially compared to stuff people do in the FGC and other communities for a lot less, because they're not out to provide entertainment for fans but rather to have a proof of concept for the uninitiated and the investors. That's not saying all esports are like that, because events GOM, Dreamhack, or Homestory Cup lean less towards the normal broadcast sports presentation model, and I thought the International was a good mix of the two.

Basically, if you want 6 hours of content equivalent to the KI presentation for EVO weekend I'm sure the prize pots can go up a bit. I'm not convinced "do what you're doing now, but with more money!" is a viable thing.

 

[Orpheus Telos]

Hey guys, I'm gonna be doing online tournaments for Guilty Gear XX Accent Core +, BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend, and Persona 4 Arena.

Eligible for North American PS3 players only.

It'll be a swiss tournament, going on for about a month.
Signups end about 2 weeks from now (tournament begins same day).
Haven't completely ironed out everything, but that's the basic gist of it (wanted to get this in the thread now, since more people are probably checking it out post Evo and all).

Send me a PM if you want to sign up.
Include your PSN and the games you want to play.

There'll different prize for each game.

For Persona 4 Arena, the Persona 4 Arena Original Design Works


For Guilty Gear XX Accent Core +, the Guilty Gear Isuka Original Soundtrack


For BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend, the Fraternity shirt from Brokentier


I'll make a thread next week, you can sign up there too, if you want, I guess.
And I'll post this in the games' official threads.

Woah thats pretty cool. I might sign up for the BB tournament.

 

[Venfayth]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8fBjV4PfY0

Video of the Akuma HEE HEE HEE ing during top 8.

 

[biosnake20]

I used to be into competitive Halo. The competitive community isn't as big as the current FGC. They never released concurrent viewership numbers, but they released total viewership numbers. They were extremely happy that they got 500k total back in 2008 or 2009 for all games. That number is easily surpassed by Evo. The 2nd Evo stream got 4 million total viewers.

They had around 2-3k concurrent viewers on twitch during Halo Reach.


Still they were able to get $20k for Halo 1st place, and I think 2nd place got $12k or $8k (can't remember). Nationals would get 1st place in Halo would get $100k for the 4 player team.

That doesn't seem right. Halo 4 at Dallas had 40k concurrent viewers and that probably didn't have as much as Halo 3 at it's peak.