Wired: Final Fantasy Isn’t Dying. It’s Already Dead

Tiktaalik said:
I think Kohler is right here. FF6 and 7 were serious, epic games that tackled serious themes. Now they're making a game with boob physics.
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This is so true, i haven't bought a final fantasy passed 8 because of this

FF7 had a realistic tone and the characters were more grounded compared to the J-pop inspired/ prancy characters designs that the sequels implement, FF needs to create a western themed characters and leave out all the creepy Japanese traits they do with the female and male characters.


also to many belt buckles,zippers, pockets, skarfs and skimpy girly outfits that completely turn me off, i just cant relate or stand these type of designs.
 
Mileena said:
XII is kinda bad though. Only when I was able to play IZJS would I call it good, and if that's the case then fuck Square because they don't allow their worldwide fanbase to experience a lot of their good stuff. I shouldn't have to download fan translations for Final Fantasy games dammit! Not gonna complain really, PCSX2 is great and the game looks beautiful and runs @ 60 constant. I don't even wanna get into Type-0....
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The only version I've played was the IZJS, and I loved it. I also own the original but I never played it.
 
I think the series is fine. People are blowing an alternate costume way out of proportion and acting like this game is now Dead or Alive Extreme Beach Volleyball or something.

Anyways, FF is fine. There's no way they will recapture FF7 for a multitude of reasons, most of which dealing with game changing technology that the game took advantage of. If they can get one out within a year or two of hologram/vr/brain jack consoles maybe they'll recapture that. Another reason is that we aren't 13-years-old anymore so that level of storytelling isn't mindblowing in the least.
 
jaxword said:
Yeah, or all the people complaining about fanservice or boob jiggling.

yOFGHTe.gif
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I'm attempting to playthrough the game for the first time (I've tried before).

You can actually go into Tifa's home and steal her underwear during a flashback when she's 15. It kind of blew my mind because I've never seen anyone ever mention it.

Best game!

---

About XII, I remember when it was newish reception was pretty poor online. I've only played the very beginning and it decides to bury you under a ton of convuluted stuff at the very beginning.

I also watched some reviews to see if it was ever touched on, including this 4 part review;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k0l73Jy_g

Basically, is the story/characters etc all they're cracked up to be, or does the 'Ye Olde English'/themes fool people into thinking it's really clever and sophisticated?
 
Spirit of Jazz said:
How? It seemed to suggest even more shallow gameplay and a focus on cinematics and terrible writing that's put many off of the franchise. It looks nothing like what the fans of older Final Fantasies are looking for.
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I don't even know how to respond to this.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582131
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=620826
Dat crowd reaction

Don´t get me wrong, you´re entitled to your own opinion and I respect that, but I personally think your opinion about what other fans ar looking for is waaayyy off.

And shallow gameplay? Seriously?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=585421

Please explain what you think is shallow about it.
 
smik said:
This is so true, i haven't bought a final fantasy passed 8 because of this

FF7 had a realistic tone and the characters were more grounded compared to the J-pop inspired/ prancy characters designs that the sequels implement, FF needs to create a western themed characters and leave out all the creepy Japanese traits they do with the female and male characters.


also to many belt buckles,zippers, pockets, skarfs and skimpy girly outfits that completely turn me off, i just cant relate or stand these type of designs.
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They made a game like this. FFXII.

What's interesting is that in equal measure, many fans bemoaned the lack of anime traits.
 
I kinda have to agree. Think about how old you were when you played your first Final Fantasy game. Now think about someone that age now.

My first real experiences with Final Fantasy were at 13. If I was 13 now, or even 18 would I really be such a fan of the series? Probably not. This generation has only spawned one "main" title, a originally botched MMO launch, and sequels to one of the more poorly received game the series has produced, or at least on the biggest scale of being disliked.

A teen who has been exposed to gaming for the last 7 or 8 years probably isn't going to have the most positive view of the franchise unless they're strongly interested in going back and playing games from previous generations. But I think that drive to dive into the past of Final Fantasy is created when you currently have a critically acclaimed game. Someone who wanted to this during the PS2 days could just buy Final Fantasy Tactics, Anthology, FF7, FF8, and FF9 and play it on their PS2, along with FFX, FFX-2 and FFXII. The entire process is more complicated now, without backward compatibility. You could still play the PSone games, but you have to wait for the HD release of X and X-2, you're screwed on XII. So hopefully they have a DS or 3DS.

I just don't have the most positive view of the future of the series. The fans that have been with it for decades have gotten older, they probably have become more discerning about writing and characterization. Which honestly SE hasn't done well in awhile. The entire franchise seems like it's going to have problems collecting new fans, and has already lost some old ones with the output over the past few years. I personally can't sit through another low rent anime trope-fest. Story is almost everything with these games, and they either don't or can't adapt to that. I doubt we're ever going to get a Final Fantasy that is hailed for its mature storytelling like what we've been seeing with more and more Western developed games.

I put myself in the shoes of a kid who is the same age as me when I started with RPGs, and I don't see them giving a shit. I probably wouldn't.
 
akaoni said:
I'm attempting to playthrough the game for the first time (I've tried before).

You can actually go into Tifa's home and steal her underwear during a flashback when she's 15. It kind of blew my mind because I've never seen anyone ever mention it.

Best game!
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Better was the fact it was listed as 'Orthopedic Underwear.'

Cue 'I stand corrected' etc. etc.
 
Spirit of Jazz said:
I was referring to that trailer. I want a tactical RPG not some newly envisioned kingdom hearts, I just can't stand shallow action RPG systems and action RPGs always end up being shallow. If you need to do action go all out and make it as good as Ninja Gaiden/Bayonetta or take the Monster Hunter/Dark Souls animation approach. Nothing in that demo looked fun to play to me.
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I don't think "tactical" is a word I would use to describe any FF battle system with the exception of maybe FF1 and FF11. (edit - Or Tactics, but that should go without saying)

But whatever floats your boat. You don't like action RPGs, and I'm not going to hold that against you.

But really, everyone keeps saying that WRPGs are dominating the market and Square needs to get with the times. That's what they are doing. All of the (popular) WRPGs on the market are Action RPGs; many are more shooter than they are RPG. Not everyone is going to like that choice, and I certainly don't blame them (I for one hope we get more turn based or ATB games in the future). But it's probably the smarter move financially.
 
BocoDragon said:
They made a game like this. FFXII.

What's interesting is that in equal measure, many fans bemoaned the lack of anime traits.
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Ashe and Fran wear "creepy" outfits. Worse than anything in FFXIII or 2. Maybe as bad as anything in 3, but too early to say.
 
Meccanical said:
I bet they love Lightning Saga then.
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It's further proof that fans don't know what they want and neither do the devs.

And besides if other forums are any indication isn't the main point of FF just the constant debating if Noel x Serah is the OTP?

Or is it Lightning x Hope.

Although I'm more a Airship x Sky and Tree x Ground guy myself.

Yes. FF fandom will discuss these petty things. Which is why more interesting discussion is negligent.
 
Zemm said:
What? Hindsight proves they were 100% wrong and were a tiny minority who thought that way. General consensus right now is that the brand is in severe decline (people saying it's dead are wrong, it can comeback) and that Square are in trouble. The two really aren't comparable.
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Hindsight isn't a valid argument. Why are internet commentators experts now but those back then were just wrong?

smik said:
This is so true, i haven't bought a final fantasy passed 8 because of this

FF7 had a realistic tone and the characters were more grounded compared to the J-pop inspired/ prancy characters designs that the sequels implement, FF needs to create a western themed characters and leave out all the creepy Japanese traits they do with the female and male characters.


also to many belt buckles,zippers, pockets, skarfs and skimpy girly outfits that completely turn me off, i just cant relate or stand these type of designs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we need to go back to the realistic characters of the past who were not "prancy" and didn't have "belt buckles,zippers, pockets, skarfs and skimpy girly outfits."

kQ2SoZD.jpg


M4CSRUCl.jpg


cm0MnAy.jpg


nVSrWyA.png


No prancy or skimpy here!
 
It'll be all about cold, hard sales figures, particularly for FF XV. Personally I feel like it's maybe a little too early to call time of death on the franchise?
 
Spirit of Jazz said:
I was referring to that trailer. I want a tactical RPG not some newly envisioned kingdom hearts, I just can't stand shallow action RPG systems and action RPGs always end up being shallow. If you need to do action go all out and make it as good as Ninja Gaiden/Bayonetta or take the Monster Hunter/Dark Souls animation approach. Nothing in that demo looked fun to play to me.
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i never took final fantasy as some highly strategic series
 
Riposte said:
Ashe and Fran wear "creepy" outfits. Worse than anything in FFXIII or 2. Maybe as bad as anything in 3, but too early to say.
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Ashe .. Really? Fran, I get.

But if you want a series without revealing fantasy clothing (on both men and women), I don't think you'll ever find it in something like FF. It's ultimately a series about beautiful people wearing high concept clothing. That often means skin.

Even the Amano art of the heroes on the Famicom boxes are "pretty", with great attention paid to their fancy outfits.
 
ubercheez said:
Those figures are from May of 2010 and are provided by Square Enix. The 6.6 million is from January of 2013 and is provided by Square Enix. Sounds like they're both shipped figures to me, since that's what the publisher can track.
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The reason why I would consider those figures on the slide 'sales' is that the Japan reported number is quite close to the public Japan reported number (LTD right now is 1.9 million). Of course, it's possible that SE refers to its shipments as 'sales' to present a better picture.

The publisher can also track sales, mostly because retailers can go back and say, your game isn't selling, we're going to lower the price, and you are going to have to cover the lost revenue.

In any case, 6.6 million is a shipment number, not a sales number, and it's much more likely that the sales number is 5.6 million than it is 6.6 million or even 6 million, given the data we have at hand. Since you demanded the sources and you got them, you know saying "6.6 million sales" is a load of garbage. You are welcome to continue blundering about insisting 13 sold 6.6 million despite being corrected, because that's apparently what Perfo and the Lightning defense force do anyway.
 
Doesn't FF14 AND 15 have positive buzz? I'd say that final fantasy has been dead the last 5-7 years or so but finally has some pulse these days...
 
aerts1js said:
Doesn't FF14 AND 15 have positive buzz these days? I'd say that final fantasy has been dead the last 5-7 years or so but finally has been some some pulse of life these days...
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Exactly.. This article is about 2 months too late to resonate. We at least have to see if they fuck up their next big thing(s).
 
dramatis said:
The reason why I would consider those figures on the slide 'sales' is that the Japan reported number is quite close to the public Japan reported number (LTD right now is 1.9 million). Of course, it's possible that SE refers to its shipments as 'sales' to present a better picture.

The publisher can also track sales, mostly because retailers can go back and say, your game isn't selling, we're going to lower the price, and you are going to have to cover the lost revenue.

In any case, 6.6 million is a shipment number, not a sales number, and it's much more likely that the sales number is 5.6 million than it is 6.6 million or even 6 million, given the data we have at hand. Since you demanded the sources and you got them, you know saying "6.6 million sales" is a load of garbage. You are welcome to continue blundering about insisting 13 sold 6.6 million despite being corrected, because that's apparently what Perfo and the Lightning defense force do anyway.
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Pointless to argue, if a game sold more than a few million copies it's far from dead.
 
MagiusNecros said:
FF was never about strategy. And it isn't hard at all. A majority wouldn't even touch the NES FF's because their brain might explode.
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No one is saying it was the prime example of a strategic game. But the turn based games are more strategic than action RPGs (KH type mainly) because you have to have some sort of plan.
 
akaoni said:
Basically, is the story/characters etc all they're cracked up to be, or does the 'Ye Olde English'/themes fool people into thinking it's really clever and sophisticated?
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Sort of. The problem with FFXII's story is that it got meddled with mid development. Partially this was because Matsuno had to give up directing the game due to health reasons, and partly some executive meddling in regards to the character roles.

In my opinion, it has an excellent setting but doesn't do a whole lot with it.
 
kurbaan said:
No one is saying it was the prime example of a strategic game. But the turn based games are more strategic than action RPGs (KH type mainly) because you have to have some sort of plan.
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What makes you so sure this is just a re-skinned KH battle system?

I saw parrying, guns, a cover system, teleportation, throwing your sword to a far point and jumping to it as a hand hold, fighting on the side of buildings.

This thing is going to have a lot more than just mash x, use potions. And I don't think we've seen anything yet.
 
RedSwirl said:
Sort of. The problem with FFXII's story is that it got meddled with mid development. Partially this was because Matsuno had to give up directing the game due to health reasons, and partly some executive meddling in regards to the character roles.

In my opinion, it has an excellent setting but doesn't do a whole lot with it.
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I'm pretty sure the health reasons were a farce for simply Matsuno not wanting to deal with fighting over the vision of a world he wanted over the shortsightedness of the executive meddling and basically threw in the towel.

At least that's what I'd like to think happened.
 
MagiusNecros said:
I'm pretty sure the health reasons were a farce for simply Matsuno not wanting to deal with fighting over the vision of a world he wanted over the shortsightedness of the executive meddling and basically threw in the towel.

At least that's what I'd like to think happened.
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I'm pretty sure that's what happened, other wise he would have no reason not to go back.
 
FFXV will be the last chance for Square Enix to convince me of the franchise

And so far everything looks awesome in XV
 
kurbaan said:
No one is saying it was the prime example of a strategic game. But the turn based games are more strategic than action RPGs (KH type mainly) because you have to have some sort of plan.
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technically i suppose. but the level of strategy in final fantasy doesn't go too far beyond attack, heal when low hp, apply/remove status, use your super attack when available. occasional -actually- hard boss, and there you have it. you can put that in an action rpg. hardest would be the status things, though.
 
BocoDragon said:
What makes you so sure this is just a re-skinned KH battle system?

I saw parrying, guns, a cover system, teleportation, throwing your sword to a far point and jumping to it as a hand hold, fighting on the side of buildings.

This thing is going to have a lot more than just mash x, use potions. And I don't think we've seen anything yet.
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The fact that its Nomura / Kingdom Hearts people making it. And everything you described except the cover system is pretty much Kindom Hearts to me (replace guns with projectiles). KH 2 even had running up a wall to fight. So far FFXV looked like a next gen even crazier KH type game.

Not saying the game cant be good. I love Kingdom Hearts but I didn't want an action game for my next Final Fantasy.
 
smik said:
This is so true, i haven't bought a final fantasy passed 8 because of this

FF7 had a realistic tone and the characters were more grounded compared to the J-pop inspired/ prancy characters designs that the sequels implement, FF needs to create a western themed characters and leave out all the creepy Japanese traits they do with the female and male characters.


also to many belt buckles,zippers, pockets, skarfs and skimpy girly outfits that completely turn me off, i just cant relate or stand these type of designs.
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Final Fantasy VIII's world and characters are much more realistic than VII's. VIII has the most simple design in the series.
 
Nibel said:
FFXV will be the last chance for Square Enix to convince me of the franchise

And so far everything looks awesome in XV
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They should make CG movies. Square is good at those.

----------------

Square has said Action RPG's are the future for FF.
 
FFVIII was excellent.
FFX was a wonderful masterpiece.
FFX-2 was ok.
FFXII a complete disaster in so many levels, i ended up smashing the dvd.
FFXIII absolute trash.


I'm only going back to FF just to play FFX/X-2 hd once again. This IP is dead.
 
kurbaan said:
The fact that its Nomura / Kingdom Hearts people making it. And everything you described except the cover system is pretty much Kindom Hearts to me (replace guns with projectiles). KH 2 even had running up a wall to fight. So far FFXV looked like a next gen even crazier KH type game.

Not saying the game cant be good. I love Kingdom Hearts but I didn't want an action game for my next Final Fantasy.
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I don't want an action game for every Final Fantasy.

But I don't want a world where they never try out an action Final Fantasy.

I'm very curious to see how it will turn out, and I think it being an important mainline FF title means they will put the effort in to make one of more dynamic and interesting action RPGs ever. I just can't see it being Secret of Mana or KH with better graphics.
 
BocoDragon said:
I don't want an action game for every Final Fantasy.

But I don't want a world where they never try out an action Final Fantasy.

I'm very curious to see how it will turn out, and I think it being an important mainline FF title means they will put the effort in to make one of more dynamic and interesting action RPGs ever. I just can't see it being Secret of Mana or KH with better graphics.
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They tried one out though. It's called Type 0. You may or may not have heard of it.
 
Not sure it's fair to call FF dead, but it's certainly on its last legs right now. The best FF game being released this gen is an HD remake of another FF game from more than a decade ago. I have high expectations for 15 though. Then again I had high expectations for 13 too and that was far and away the most disappointed that I've ever been with a gaming purchase. And i own a virtual boy
 
BocoDragon said:
I don't want an action game for every Final Fantasy.

But I don't want a world where they never try out an action Final Fantasy.

I'm very curious to see how it will turn out, and I think it being an important mainline FF title means they will put the effort in to make one of more dynamic and interesting action RPGs ever. I just can't see it being Secret of Mana or KH with better graphics.
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I think it was perfect with this concept when it was called "Versus 13" so it wasn't going to take up a mainline FF spot and could be very out there to do its own thing. I can understand why they had to make it FF15 but it makes me sad that we have to wait till FF16 to maybe get some of the classic gameplay back.
 
MagiusNecros said:
They tried one out though. It's called Type 0. You may or may not have heard of it.
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I speak English so ... No, I have no idea what you're talking about, that doesn't exist.

kurbaan said:
I think it was perfect with this concept when it was called "Versus 13" so it wasn't going to take up a mainline FF spot and could be very out there to do its own thing. I can understand why they had to make it FF15 but it makes me sad that we have to wait till FF16 to maybe get some of the classic gameplay back.
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I see your point.

Ultimately though, this probably just means that Versus is going to get extra polish, and I don't think in reality we are going to "lose" an FF game out of this.

If there was some alternate FF15 in the works before the Versus rename, it's just going to be called FF16.
 
Green Mamba said:
I think, regardless of how good you consider FFX-2, it did set the absolute worst precedent for the series ever. Here they are, before FFXV has even released, and they're already talking about FFXV-2. Fuck off, SE.

I think it speaks volumes of the state the series is in that, here, at the start of a new generation, their premier mainline Final Fantasy being announced in conjunction with the new consoles is a game they announced before the PS3 launched. Holy christ.
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Yup. Gotta agree with everything you said here. Loved X, but X-2 really does look like the game that brought the beginning of the end for the series.
 
The series just needs a complete reboot at this point. Scrap the numbering system and go back to the beginning. The Batman IP should be the model of inspiration.
 
Riposte said:
Ashe and Fran wear "creepy" outfits. Worse than anything in FFXIII or 2. Maybe as bad as anything in 3, but too early to say.
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One of the things I liked about XIII's character design was that, dumb as Vanille looked, none of the player characters were bouncing around with cleavage a blazin'. Lighting and Fang had really good designs, I think.
 
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