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[chrominance]

The small fact that all Polygon reviews are shit doesn't help. But yeah, it's about par for the course for Polygon.

Sorry, I should clarify: I'm disappointed in the OUTRAGE, not in Polygon. Not this time, at least. I didn't like the way they handled their SimCity review, for example. But this just seems like a lot of handwringing over nothing.

I wish reviewers would do a strict review on gameplay and design, then follow up with their own opinion later in the piece. Making a review too much about the reviewers opinions and outlook than gameplay critique is a rather useless approach for such an interactive medium, IMO.

I can see the point, sure--games are weird in that there's an artistic component as well as a technical one (i.e. does it have stupid bugs, are the controls good, etc.). But even with the technical stuff there's room for opinion, just like with movie reviews, you can say that the cinematography isn't even close to technically perfect but it's still great because the imperfections lends a certain documentary quality, for example.

 

[Delusibeta]

Is this post satire?

To be fair, Polygon's shitty reviews may look like payola to uneducated eyes, but no: it's just shit reviews.

 

[Comet]

Definitely selling SMTIV to get a copy of Dragon's Crown

 

[Homu]

Whatever ships more copies of the game lol

 

[halfbeast]

Kotaku's Mike Fahey gave it a YES.

 

[Shosai]

Yes, and they are absolutely right. Women do not hold exclusive rights to the victim status. Men can be offended over their genders depiction in Dragon's Crown just as much as women can.

That said, I think anyone getting offended over this is silly. Christina Hendricks has boobs bigger than her head "with a rear to match". Should we be giving Mad Men episodes crappy scores because Hendricks exists and is being used? Lol

No, because Christina Hendricks was not drawn up by an artist and has no control over her own genetics. Please don't compare real people to artistic depictions, it's a bad analogy

 

[Karsticles]

What you quoted is nothing like Polygon's review. Did you even read it? She talks quite a lot about other aspects of the game. Things she liked, things she didn't. But in the end, a game review is just the opinion of a person about a game they played. That's all it can be. Lots of things come together to make up a game, not just the things you personally deem important. People have their own priorities, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. A game review is an opinion piece through-and-through; there is no such thing as objectivity in reviews.

This outrage is honestly silly. People are allowed to feel differently than you. You've already decided you're buying the game, anyway, so what difference do reviews make anyway?

I read enough to see that sort of thinking strewn throughout the review. Clearly it's hyperbole, though. It's obvious that the low review score is heavily influenced by her moral ideals.

I'm not really outraged about it. And I addressed the "people feel differently from you" thing in my original post. It's fine to like different things, but moral ideals should not be the basis for rating a videogame's quality.

 

[Jacksonlee]

I expect a bit of fairness and the ability to look at games with a degree of objectivity. I review myself. As a matter of fact I just reviewed dragon's crown (won't link, as I'm not keen on self promotion here), and I reviewed a ton of games that don't fit my personal taste. But I sure don't go around docking several points from their score, as I'm used to look beyond my taste.



A review isn't just opinion. It should be a balanced mix of opinion and fact.

A good reviewer cannot let his personal taste (or even worse, his personal political/moral agendas) weigh more than the objective quality of a game, otherwise he's just misleading his readers.

When you give a game a score, you're making a statement of quality, not a statement of taste.

that's actually what i look for in a review, really.

something that educates the masses - that isn't warped by personal distaste or bias, regardless of it being postive or negative.

when reviewers end a review that clearly demonstrate their Own distaste for the design that is placed subjectively, that is when i discredit a reviewer.

at least, that's how i see it.

 

[GuardianE]

There is no such thing as objective quality, especially when it comes to entertainment. Every single person on the planet perceives things differently.

I think reviewers should be able to appreciate things that do not align with their own tastes, and distance themselves as much as they can from making judgments based on those tastes. A review will never be completely objective, but I would hardly consider a proper review to be an opinion piece. It shouldn't be. I think part of a reviewer's job is to be able to make that distinction.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Whatever ships more copies of the game lol

To be honest, that's how i'm looking at it. A review like that is only good for DC as it'll get a small game with a small marketing budget even more attention. Just like that Kotaku blowup was probably the best thing to happen to the game. I want this game to be a big success because I love the genre and really like Vanillaware, so if it has to get there on the back of controversy then so be it.

 

[Papercuts]

As with his God of War: Ascension review, Gies once again lets his hypersensitivity to political correctness taint his outlook on what is considered a high-quality and enjoyable game by the majority of reviewers.

Really disappointing, again.

What the fuck, you literally didn't even check the review to see who wrote it. I am going to assume you didn't even check it out at all.

I don't even care about Polygon, but jesus.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

You know the review I actually found most helpful was Gameinformers which wasn't one of the best or worst ratings wise. They gave actual facts like this.

I love the core gameplay loop of battling in the wilderness, and then returning to town to recharge and improve. I wish I could be as enthusiastic about some of the structural constraints. Four-player local play is open from the beginning, but only the first player’s character advances through the story progression. If you happen to be in the second or third player slot, your character advances in level, but not through the story. Meanwhile, online play remains locked until you reach an arbitrary point several hours into the storyline. With such potential for enjoyable multiplayer, these two barriers are tragic.

That's the kind of stuff I look for in my reviews I read which isn't many anymore.

 

[ultron87]

If you think the written review is bad, just watch the first 15 seconds of this video. It doesn't take her anywhere near as long to get to the complaints about the art style. She jumps RIGHT into it; nothing held back.

That's the summary before the review starts.

And okay, the main characters are one thing, but look at this warrior monk at 2:30 in that review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu-1FDrxRmU&T&t=2m31s Yeesh.

 

[Newblade]

No, because Christina Hendricks was not drawn up by an artist and has no control over her own genetics. Please don't compare real people to artistic depictions, it's a bad analogy

Does she speak while having her legs spread out or likes shoving a skull between her tits?

Proportions aren't the problem.

 

[GhostTrick]

I love the fact that the game gets unfair critics about design, being japanese stereotypes girls with big breasts... while it looks like it's in fact inspired but 80s US warriors stereotypes, with bodybuilded barbarians and big breasted women.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

polygon have their panties in a bunch again. shocking.

I think your confusing Polygon with some fans of Dragon's Crown?

 

[Northeastmonk]

Wow. I can't believe the lack of professionalism from those sites that radically lowered the score because of the art style that they find morally questionable.

That's an insult to journalistic integrity no matter how you look at it.

Political agenda and moralization crusades should not be mixed with video game reviews.

7-12 years ago they didn't care. Now all of sudden the medium and graphics seduce more players into the scene, then there's something to talk about.

The thought of questioning themes in games used to be an outrage. "Why would they do such a thing?" and now it's "I'm saying this game deserves a lower score because its sexist and degrades genders".

The outright theme of a game used to be under the huge ego the journalist made out for themselves. Now they're taking it too serious and it's just a mess.

 

[ponpo]

Kotaku's Mike Fahey gave it as YES.

Thanks, added.

 

[ironcreed]

Nods to old tabletop gaming abound, up to and including a dungeon master-like narrator who carries you through the story.

Nice to see that Game Informer 'got it' when it comes to the narration. It's on purpose and part of the appeal. I absolutely fell in love with what I have heard of it. It just fits.

 

[Infinite]

There is no such thing as objective quality, especially when it comes to entertainment. Every single person on the planet perceives things differently.

I agree but there's objective qualities in games one can examine such as functioning controls and lack of game breaking glitches and bugs.

 

[homulilly]

Kotaku's Mike Fahey gave it as YES.

Mike Fahey is basically the opposite of the polygon reviewer in this case. He adds points for this kind of artwork.

 

[brandnew]

I wish Polygon would drop their numerical scores. I wonder how people would react if the same exact review was written with an 8 attached to it...

 

[weevles]

Have it on PO. Can't wait...

 

[Parakeetman]

I love the fact that the game gets unfair critics about design, being japanese stereotypes girls with big breasts... while it looks like it's in fact inspired but 80s US warriors stereotypes, with bodybuilded barbarians and big breasted women.

Boris Vallejo people, Boris Vallejo.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

It's funny that the negative reviews all focus on big tits and tiny bikinis.

I do that and I don't even write reviews.

 

[ponpo]

Mike Fahey is basically the opposite of the polygon reviewer in this case. He adds points for this kind of artwork.

However:

And yes, I see the exaggerated characters, but I don't mind them so much. If you do, best move along.

 

[Aeana]

I read enough to see that sort of thinking strewn throughout the review. Clearly it's hyperbole, though. It's obvious that the low review score is heavily influenced by her moral ideals.

People's opinions about almost everything are definitely colored by their morals and ideals. So what? If you don't agree with her, then disregard her review. But I ask again: if you already decided that you're going to buy it and your feelings about it seem cemented, what value are reviews for you anyway? Are you just looking for validation of your feelings about the game? Is it such a big deal that there's a review out there that you disagree with?

 

[Abriael]

How much fact can you put in a review outside of simply describing the game? If all reviews did that, they'd all run together. Again, these aren't news stories. Reviews are opinion pieces

There's a lot of fact in the quality of a game, even just looking at its technical competence.

That's why I said a review should be balanced fairly between objectivity and opinion. There's room for both, but when you dock several points to a game because of your personal taste on something as completely alien to quality as art style, you're misleading your readers.

You're effectively telling your readers that the game isn't good, when that obviously doesn't apply to a vast portion of them.

I hate mario. With a passion. His character design, way of expression, caricature and the whole idea irk every cell of my being.

Guess what? I never gave a mario game I reviewed in 16 years below an 8. Why?

Because despite my personal taste I'm able to recognize that the particular Mario games I reviewed were objectively good.

that's actually what i look for in a review, really.

something that educates the masses - that isn't warped by personal distaste or bias, regardless of it being postive or negative.

when reviewers end a review that clearly demonstrate their Own distaste for the design that is placed subjectively, that is when i discredit a reviewer.

at least, that's how i see it.

And I completely agree with it.

 

[IcyEyes]

I prefer to point to the nice review from Destructoid (again).

 

[Volcynika]

Boris Vallejo people, Boris Vallejo.

Yowza, put that in a quote block mang.

I SEE YOUR EDIT.

 

[GoddyofAus]

Okay, I'm sick and tired of this crap.

Ladies....ladies, listen. Listen to me please. There is a big difference between having a moral opinion that you want to express on an issue that is highly contentious in this industry and demographic, and jumping on a high horse because you know it will get you a mountain of attention on the internet which will always have an equally charged, contentious response to this topic.

On which side of the fence you fall on is up to you, but don't be surprised when gamers, a male dominated spectrum, is going to respond aggressively if you come across as a hit fisher. There's no point complaining about comments sections because you will never be able to account or accommodate for dickheads. PLEASE, just be very careful with the language you use when discussing a moral criticism, because people will call you out for it.

 

[homulilly]

However:

Not sure what you mean by "however" in this case. That's exactly my point.

 

[Aeana]

I agree but there's objective qualities in games one can examine such as functioning controls and lack of game breaking glitches and bugs.

I think Kid Icarus taught us that even controls work out differently for different people.

 

[erpg]

Guess i should just wrote myself from the official thread:

Ah, reviews. It's a good thing I only read hardware benchmarks.

That's subjectivity for you. Let them say their piece and move on.

Everything is open to criticism, especially aesthetics. There's nothing wrong with it.

Accusing the artist of hatred or whatever is going to far, but I'm guessing reviews haven't done that. They've talked about how it made them feel and that's a perfectly fine way to frame an argument.

 

[Rollo Lawson]

Also...a few of you who are so upset clearly didn't read the review

 

[LTWood12]

I haven't played the game so I don't know whether I'll agree or disagree with Polygon's review score. I do however disagree with the attitude toward those that aren't offended by the things they are.

And I'm not talking about disrespectful commentators. I would expect that attitude toward those folks (though ignoring them would be better than engaging with them). And disrespectful comments aren't unique to the DC review. Just about every review gets them.

But in this case, Arthur in particular is just lumping everyone together who isn't offended by it and calling their character into question.

 

[Joeku]

I agree but there's objective qualities in games one can examine such as functioning controls and lack of game break glitches and bugs.

And those things aren't "reviewable", they're just facts. They're a few bullet points at the head or tail of a review. The idea of objectivity in reviews starts and ends there.

 

[homulilly]

Okay, I'm sick and tired of this crap.

Ladies....ladies, listen. Listen to me please. There is a big difference between having a moral opinion that you want to express on an issue that is highly contentious in this industry and demographic, and jumping on a high horse because you know it will get you a mountain of attention on the internet which will always have an equally charged, contentious response to this topic.

On which side of the fence you fall on is up to you, but don't be surprised when gamers, a male dominated spectrum, is going to respond aggressively if you come across as a hit fisher. There's no point complaining about comments sections because you will never be able to account or accommodate for dickheads. PLEASE, be very careful with the language you use when discussing a moral criticism, because people will call you out for it.

Fuck off

 

[ponpo]

Not sure what you mean by "however" in this case. That's exactly my point.

Just acknowledging that he acknowledges some people may have an issue with it. Wasn't disagreeing with you!

 

[Parakeetman]

Yowza, put that in a quote block mang.

I SEE YOUR EDIT.

Hate it when the browser vs. actual image when stuck on a forum size differs. Usually I run it once without quotes to check the size, then re-quote it in the case here its TOO FUCKING BIG lol

 

[Homu]

I wish Polygon would drop their numerical scores. I wonder how people would react if the same exact review was written with an 8 attached to it...

A "Yes" or "No" doesn't bring in the fat clicks that they're hoping for. Obviously it's the only reason they're posting controversial opinions and jumping on the feminism train like that.

 

[Deified Data]

Maybe they feel differently about the art than you do? I 'unno

I just said their opinion upsets me, not that they aren't entitled to it. No point in treating every opinion as equally valid.

 

[HoodWinked]

two lowest scores are from two female reviewers.

dragons crown is the game that gets made the example for no real good reason.

 

[vitiosuslepos]

I actually mention Boris Vallejo in the GamesBeat review. Glad others picked up on it.

 

[homulilly]

Just acknowledging that he acknowledges some people may have an issue with it. Wasn't disagreeing with you!

Okay I assumed you were trying to say that he didn't care for it or something which I find impossible to believe having read Kotaku for years. Mike Fahey loves the anime titties.

 

[Infinite]

I think Kid Icarus taught us that even controls work out differently for different people.

And those things aren't "reviewable", they're just facts. They're a few bullet points at the head or tail of a review. The idea of objectivity in reviews starts and ends there.

Touche

 

[Shosai]

There's a lot of fact in the quality of a game, even just looking at its technical competence.

That's why I said a review should be balanced fairly between objectivity and opinion. There's room for both, but when you dock several points to a game because of your personal taste on something as completely alien to quality as art style, you're misleading your readers.

You're effectively telling your readers that the game isn't good, when that obviously doesn't apply to a vast portion of them.

I hate mario. With a passion. His character design, way of expression, caricature and the whole idea irk every cell of my being.

Guess what? I never gave a mario game I reviewed in 16 years below an 8. Why?

Because despite my personal taste I'm able to recognize that the particular Mario games I reviewed were objectively good.

What the hell? If there are parts of the game that are annoying you, I'd like to know when reading a review. It doesn't do anyone any good to basically lie about your feelings when putting them down on paper.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Boris Vallejo people, Boris Vallejo.

I entirely agree that the game is aping a (in my opinion) super cool old school fantasy art style, but its value is also entirely subjective. People are allowed to not appreciate Dragon's Crown, even if in my personal view they're missing the point. That's okay. To them it probably seems like we're the ones missing the point.

Opinions, etc.

 

[chrominance]

Okay, I'm sick and tired of this crap.

Ladies....ladies, listen. Listen to me please. There is a big difference between having a moral opinion that you want to express on an issue that is highly contentious in this industry and demographic, and jumping on a high horse because you know it will get you a mountain of attention on the internet which will always have an equally charged, contentious response to this topic.

On which side of the fence you fall on is up to you, but don't be surprised when gamers, a male dominated spectrum, is going to respond aggressively if you come across as a hit fisher. There's no point complaining about comments sections because you will never be able to account or accommodate for dickheads. PLEASE, just be very careful with the language you use when discussing a moral criticism, because people will call you out for it.

"And while you're at it, if you know what's good for you you'll wear longer dresses!"

 

[Abriael]

By the way, Polygon's Gies is now stooping down to the level of attacking those that criticize their review on a personal level. "hey, look what this dude criticizing us did, his criticism must be invalid".

Pathetic, really.