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Next Gen POWER CROWN - Xbox PC or PS6?

Which next gen console will wear the POWER CROWN

  • Total voters
    239
Xbox but it's not fair compare PC and console. Sony needs to control PS6 costs since it will be a mass market device, Microsoft will sell all units at profit for a niche.
 
Markio128 said:
At this point, I'm becoming less interested in Powah.

I'd be very surprised if Sony didn't go the hybrid route like Nintendo, with the PS6. The Switch has proven that gamers want the option of TV and handheld, particularly in Japan. I'd be happy with this, even if it meant the PS6 was only a slight improvement on the PS5 Pro.

Leave MS to duke it out with the PC crowd.
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Sony is making a PS6 handheld and a PS6 home console. Imo it's the best of both worlds since you're not limited to a tiny handheld case and cooling for heat dissipation and it can handle high voltage just fine without worrying about the battery. Now if the PS6 handheld has an optional docked mode that's fine too but the PS6 home console should be the real power house.
 
PlayStaytion said:
That's basically the 3090 Ti of this gen, a wise choice non the less.
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Yea, last time the PS5 matched the 1080ti and Pascal Titan. Those cards are the equivalent of the 5090 now, this time around the PS6 is aiming for 5070ti-5080 level so 4090 (significantly faster than a 5080) and 5090 users should have excess power to throw around for next gen in the same way the RTX Titan and 3090 do vs the PS5.

6090 is gonna smoke the 5090 though since it's going to be fabbed on a next gen node.
 
OLED_Gamer said:
Obviously the Xbox PC per leaks.

In saying that, that Xbox has things working against it:
- Its still going to run on Windows. I'm not sold on the super lean Windows given the Ally X situation so far.

- Sony is actively involved in hardware development now giving them an edge on actual needs vs MS' off the shelf approach.

- Brand recognition. No idea how Xbox is going to manage this.

- Cost to performance. Is double the price going to translate to double the performance? Hardly…
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MS approach is not off the shelf. This is why they're getting hardware based backwards compatibility built in to these chips, MS is also funding the development of a series of chips, whether it is next gen RDNA5 only chips (sold by different Xbox vendors like Asus, Lenovo etc) or also RDNA6 and RDNA7 chips which they'll need if they're gonna compete with prebuilts that will have the latest Nvidia cards every year, remains to be seen. If the Xbox is stuck on 2026 CPU tech (Zen 6) and 2027 GPU tech (RDNA5) every year until 2035 they're boned, the Xbox will go out of date as soon as the 70 series launches in 2029.



At most AMDs console chips are semi custom, which is why AMD calls it their semi custom business. Its not like the Gamecube or PS2 where the chips were fully custom.
 
Zathalus said:
Based on the current rumours? Magnus would be the faster between the two. But I question what the point of such a device is.
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It'll compete with prebuilts, that's it. It'll be a prebuilts that's more approachable for old school console gamers in terms of UI and controller support. MS isn't looking to take over the world, just carve it's own sustainable niche. I just hope they find new chips every GPU gen (RDNA5 2027, RDNA6 2029, RDNA7 2032 etc.) or they're gonna be left behind the moment Nvidia releases the 70 series in 2029.
 
GermanZepp said:
nextgen Playstation has the oportunity to prove that they still could make good games. The only thing left for my tastes is Saros. Sony need to lay some exclusives envery year and lose all DEI from games
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Won't happen specially now that they don't have a direct console competitor like old Xbox.
 
BTW
PS6 and Xbox PC will use COWOS multi-chiplet packaging

fcf6e0bfbe4619df456b3b7325b9f557e86e6d0c1a251956706e182907a0cb0b.png
 
Zathalus said:
Based on the current rumours? Magnus would be the faster between the two. But I question what the point of such a device is.
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We saw with the PS5 that how you use, arrange and clock the Lego blocks matters far more than the a component count delta that can easily be consumed by Windows and DirectX bloat without even trying compared to a to-the-metal approach.

Even the Magnus inclusion of a NPU (110 Trillion Ops per second) with co-pilot use could consume the same memory bandwidth as a whole current gen CPU (40GB/s) or double, triple. The memory bandwidth difference between 160 bit and 192 bit isn't offset by the NPU demands as a net win IMO, and where people probably think co-pilot will be optional, I suspect that the co-pilot project is paying for these devices, just like Kinect project paid for the Xbox One and Gamepass project paid for the series consoles(Activision/Bethesda. etc too).

It also seems like the Amethyst video has been changed slightly to remove the part about outsized impact, which seems absent when I've watched it back, and the video doesn't quite give the same default implication that all the tech was coming to Magnus too like it did on first viewing, so if Universal compression, Neural Arrays or Radiance cores are missing from Magnus, or have a lower count or clocking for those features the Orion - focused on AI and PT by the Amethyst video talk - is still likely to be inline with the 5090 level RT claim which was rumoured as a 5080 level RT about Magnus.
 
jasondefaoite said:
Does Amy Hood's requirement the xbox gaming division implement a 30% profit margin target impact the cost of this device even more?

It's not a question of not being subsidised but now the expectations are they make margins they've never hit before. Ever.
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The first party hardware is going to sticker shock the casuals as not being subsidized is going to figure in a lot

I know K KeplerL2 said $1200 as a random guess which could be a good starting point but it would not shock me in the least if its $2k
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
The first party hardware is going to sticker shock the casuals as not being subsidized is going to figure in a lot

I know K KeplerL2 said $1200 as a random guess which could be a good starting point but it would not shock me in the least if its $2k
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Agreed

Worth remembering that if OEMs are to be on board then MS can't just undercut them.

Surface devices could be cheaper but MS don't want to piss off the likes of ASUS, Dell, MSI.
 
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Cost per frame is the only metric that matters.

Plus two things to remember:

1) Xbox PC = a pc. It's just a pc

2)
XJ0aveCCLdmtfh1g.jpg


This will also be true for PS6
 
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I would think that the fact a game that was released 10 years ago on the PS4 still looks better than 90% of everything released since would make threads like these pointless.
 
Meh. Can we just stop chattering about whatever "next-gen" of consoles is coming until there's something next-generational about the current-gen consoles?

The XB Series and PS5 have been very comfortable upgrades in terms of playability access (fast/seamless loads and high graphic resolution, barring some ugly artifacts of the upscaling,) but it's nearly impossible to say that I wasn't expecting something more. This gen had great upgrades in data access and advanced modeling & lighting techniques to really define a step up from the PS4/One gen, but the games never figured out a way to take much advantage. If all the PS6/XB? can deliver after this is more accurate ray/path tracing and higher resolution for AI to supersample from and hopefully fewer artifacts to grump about, I don't see why the base architecture needs to change. Just bump up the specs again on what we have and clear up the graphics which are already fine but get ruined by the hitches and impositions and limitations.

I'd be perfectly fine with a "Super" PS5 Pro.
 
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Mister Wolf said:
Games using RTGI is the generational shift for this era.
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Okay?

I was up for the future of RTGI when I saw the smooth natural look of Tomorrow Children, where Q-Games used its own implementation of cascaded voxel cone tracing to efficiently do realtime global illumination for its lifelike graphics look (without the noise and performance drag that a raytracing approach to GI would have encumbered back then on PS4, or even now.) Hell, I was looking forward to it back when 3D Dot Hero used an early version of Silicon Studio's weird YEBRIS FX and Enlighten GI system for pretty and glowy voxel graphics which seemed both blocky but also natural thanks to the more accurate propagation of light. Even before ray/path-tracing was within reach, global illumination was showing its value in solidifying what you see. I'm hip to what you're saying, and I'm glad that we're here now.

However, RTGI as well as RT/PT in other uses came with a lot of promises. As much I like the look of games today, there's still a lot to deliver on for RTGI on even this gen's level (and this gen is still struggling to find the most workable way of implementing RTGI... plus most devs still largely bake,) before it lays claim to being the central "generational shift for this era".

☒ It makes everything look nicer and more 3D.
☐ It saves development time, cutting out painful and debilitating rebake time and server farm scheduling.
☐ It frees up the use of physics systems to run more realtime sims without breaking the scene and revealing the artifacts of baked graphics.
☐ It cuts down dramatically on game app file sizes and the need for massive patch sizes.

​
 
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power is irrelevant when everything has the same architecture and close enough raw power, you just get minor differences in performance or some other bullshit...

consoles "died" when they stopped chasing exotic hardware
 
I'm so confused with this Xbox PC thing. Will there be a traditional Xbox games for new Xbox? Like that only runs on Xbox OS and not on windows? Or there is only Windows FSE thing from now on?
 
Geruda065 said:
I'm so confused with this Xbox PC thing. Will there be a traditional Xbox games for new Xbox? Like that only runs on Xbox OS and not on windows? Or there is only Windows FSE thing from now on?
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It'll be backwards compatible with Xbox games, Xbox Series games will release beyond 2027.

It'll play all PC games. Once devs drop support for Series then the only new games will be PC games.
 
Bondo said:
If it comes out a year before PS6- gotta wonder if the extra year makes it closer than we think.
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I think this is a valid point, not just because of forward progression in tech and affordability, but because Microsoft will have shown their cards early and Sony may potentially have an additional year to work towards parity with more efficient closed console hardware and Cerny's 'secret sauce' TM.
 
"But Xbox will be a PC/hybrid" shit is getting really old. Game consoles have been hybrids ever since they could be used for anything else than playing games. Saturn and PS played audio CD's (Saturn even Video CD with the extension card). Dreamcast had an internet browser. PS2 played DVD's. And now we have full-blown media centers.
 
PaintTinJr said:
We saw with the PS5 that how you use, arrange and clock the Lego blocks matters far more than the a component count delta that can easily be consumed by Windows and DirectX bloat without even trying compared to a to-the-metal approach.

Even the Magnus inclusion of a NPU (110 Trillion Ops per second) with co-pilot use could consume the same memory bandwidth as a whole current gen CPU (40GB/s) or double, triple. The memory bandwidth difference between 160 bit and 192 bit isn't offset by the NPU demands as a net win IMO, and where people probably think co-pilot will be optional, I suspect that the co-pilot project is paying for these devices, just like Kinect project paid for the Xbox One and Gamepass project paid for the series consoles(Activision/Bethesda. etc too).

It also seems like the Amethyst video has been changed slightly to remove the part about outsized impact, which seems absent when I've watched it back, and the video doesn't quite give the same default implication that all the tech was coming to Magnus too like it did on first viewing, so if Universal compression, Neural Arrays or Radiance cores are missing from Magnus, or have a lower count or clocking for those features the Orion - focused on AI and PT by the Amethyst video talk - is still likely to be inline with the 5090 level RT claim which was rumoured as a 5080 level RT about Magnus.
Click to expand...
The PS5 advantage isn't some big secret, it was clocked ~20% faster. XSX has the compute advantage, but PS5 has the advantage basically everywhere else. XSX has issues with the split ram, inefficient shader engine setup, and cache constraints as well. Frankly, the consoles are very close in relative power, as most comparisons show.

Magnus doesn't appear to have any of these compromises, it will feature more CPU cores, larger CPU cores (some regular Zen 6 vs just Zen 6c), higher CPU clocks, more compute units, higher GPU clock speeds, more ROP's, significantly higher L2 cache, more memory, faster memory, and so on. PS5 beats the XSX on a ton of metrics, it doesn't appear that Orion beats Magnus on anything. The NPU is likely just to run some cut down local variant of Copilot, similar to the Gaming Copilot nonsense they have on PC at the moment. I don't think it will be actually used in games, Microsoft just wants to cast as wide a net as possible. As you said, Copilot is helping to pay for these devices.

Nothing so far indicates Magnus won't have the RDNA5 feature set that was discussed by AMD and Sony. All of that is going into regular AMD cards, which will be for regular PC gaming, and since Magnus is based off that, it should have it as well. If those features are missing from the PC cards, Nvidia will simply murder them in the desktop space again. But I do agree that if it turns out Magus is lacking in those features vs Orion, then yes it would lose out in PT focused games.

None of this power is really going to matter in the end, I don't see a scenario where the Magnus sales come close to anything from Sony. Maybe it will see some use as a prebuilt, but who knows what the goal even is at this point.
 
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My guess is that if the next Xbox is simply an Xbox branded PC, then in this form it can (and probably will) accommodate more powerful components.
 
twilo99 said:
A console is just a PC with outdated components
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Nah, it's worse. Lacks modding, Steam, and you're forced pay to play online. Can't hold all these nerfs.

People trying to pretend that the current and next consoles aren't just limited PCs. You have to install the games from the disc, get updates for them to run sometimes, etc. Also, if GTA 6 comes to Magnus, it's still a "console" according to Rockstar. You're not emulating GTA 6 on any other personal computer any time soon.
 
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The PS6 will be cheaper and the difference in real world gaming will not likely be night and day, at least not a big enough difference to pay an extra $300+ for the Xbox PC.
 
Zathalus said:
The PS5 advantage isn't some big secret, it was clocked ~20% faster. XSX has the compute advantage, but PS5 has the advantage basically everywhere else. XSX has issues with the split ram, inefficient shader engine setup, and cache constraints as well. Frankly, the consoles are very close in relative power, as most comparisons show.

Magnus doesn't appear to have any of these compromises, it will feature more CPU cores, larger CPU cores (some regular Zen 6 vs just Zen 6c), higher CPU clocks, more compute units, higher GPU clock speeds, more ROP's, significantly higher L2 cache, more memory, faster memory, and so on. PS5 beats the XSX on a ton of metrics, it doesn't appear that Orion beats Magnus on anything. The NPU is likely just to run some cut down local variant of Copilot, similar to the Gaming Copilot nonsense they have on PC at the moment. I don't think it will be actually used in games, Microsoft just wants to cast as wide a net as possible. As you said, Copilot is helping to pay for these devices.

Nothing so far indicates Magnus won't have the RDNA5 feature set that was discussed by AMD and Sony. All of that is going into regular AMD cards, which will be for regular PC gaming, and since Magnus is based off that, it should have it as well. If those features are missing from the PC cards, Nvidia will simply murder them in the desktop space again. But I do agree that if it turns out Magus is lacking in those features vs Orion, then yes it would lose out in PT focused games.

None of this power is really going to matter in the end, I don't see a scenario where the Magnus sales come close to anything from Sony. Maybe it will see some use as a prebuilt, but who knows what the goal even is at this point.
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Go watch the Amethyst video again. I'm sure it has some small edits that no longer make this sound like vanilla RDNA5, ready in time for Magnus like it originally did - pretty sure the outsizing comment is missing now - but even if it is ready for Magnus, PlayStation's solution will still be custom compared to RDNA5/6 GPUs, and custom compared to Magnus' arrangement for a PC experience.

My hunch is that PS6 GPU clocks at 2.23Ghz or less(1.4Ghz) for PS6 exclusives and clocks the Amethyst key features at levels unsuited to global settings letting it do low power and high performance on the essential PT and ML denoising features.
 
PaintTinJr said:
Go watch the Amethyst video again. I'm sure it has some small edits that no longer make this sound like vanilla RDNA5, ready in time for Magnus like it originally did - pretty sure the outsizing comment is missing now - but even if it is ready for Magnus, PlayStation's solution will still be custom compared to RDNA5/6 GPUs, and custom compared to Magnus' arrangement for a PC experience.

My hunch is that PS6 GPU clocks at 2.23Ghz or less(1.4Ghz) for PS6 exclusives and clocks the Amethyst key features at levels unsuited to global settings letting it do low power and high performance on the essential PT and ML denoising features.
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I guess we will see, the differences seem overwhelmingly in favour of Magnus from all the leaks. That is if Magnus even sees the light of day. Plenty of things can change within the next two years.
 
The Next Gen Xbox will likely be more powerful but it will likely also cost a lot more than the PS6. Whether people will be willing to pay more for better hardware remains to be seen but it is hard to see how Microsoft expect to sell the console if the $1,000+ option is the cheapest option available. PS5 is still available alongside the PS5 Pro so there is an option there to buy a cheaper base system alongside the (not quite as hoped) "premium" experience. Also, Xbox hardware sales have basically flatlined, not helped by Microsoft's decision to publish Xbox games on other systems.

The only draw for Xbox is Game Pass but Microsoft have gone and ruined the appeal of that too with price hikes and, in my opinion, just pure greed. I cancelled mine in May 2024 and have not missed it one iota.

Not interested in any future Xbox anyway, no matter how powerful it is. I always preferred to play games on my PS5 rather than my Xbox Series X because it felt like a more next gen experience with a new interface, 3D audio, support for PS VR2 (albeit cruelly ignored by Sony) and an innovative DualSense controller. I remeber the disappointment at turning on my Xbox Series X for the first time and thinking it felt like I had plugged in my Xbox One X by mistake; at launch it still had a 1080p dashboard. Plus it didn't help that the system had no exclusives for the best part of 3 years. Sadly, I've just lost interest in Xbox as a console platform. Still interested in the games, of course, but I no longer need the hardware to play them.
 
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When rivals consoles are in the same price bracket, you can compare their power and features.
If one is twice the price of the other, the power crown is relative...
 
twilo99 said:
Does all any of that change the fact that these locked down gaming machines are made up of mostly outdated PC components?
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Ubisoft always spoil the fun of having strong rig, their flawed logic to jeopardize the mid range market isn't going to work anymore.
 
DavidGzz said:
if GTA 6 comes to Magnus, it's still a "console" according to Rockstar.
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If this Magnus hardware does appear next year then it's the big games like GTA6 that are going to test the resolve of Gaffers. Particularly if these games appear to be struggling with performance or are somewhat compromised on PS5.

I can see myself getting lured in and buying the Xbox PC, because whilst it's up against PS5 it's going to look pretty damn incredible and exciting. Once it goes up against PS6 (if that arrives a year later in 2027) then it will probably be a less significant gap.
 
The new Steam console/PC hybrid will dominate all.

I'm convinced it will trample on the PS6, next Xbox and even have Nintendo sweating
 
Who gives a fuck!? These days power of console doesn't mean success and heck it doesn't even mean he game will run better as we saw with "PS5 pro enhance" games.
 
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