Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Beta Phase 3 Impression: Phase 4 August

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so on the offchance an original version 1.0 account holder is no longer wanting their account plz PM me. I'm interested in jumping in full tail this round.

Someone that linked their account and had what 3 months paid on their account. PM me we can talk.
 
zugzug said:
so on the offchance an original version 1.0 account holder is no longer wanting their account plz PM me. I'm interested in jumping in full tail this round.

Someone that linked their account and had what 3 months paid on their account. PM me we can talk.
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Seriously, asking for accounts?

What's next, asking for gil too?
 
atomicstrawberry said:
So balanced such that you need to play perfectly to be competitive. That's a shame but also should be fairly easy to tweak if it's really falling behind at least. I've played classes in other MMOs with similar sort of buff management mechanics.

I guess the big upside with the class system in this game is that in the event that you end up really disliking something you don't have to reroll and start from scratch.
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I want to main a Monk, but I am worried about how well its mechanics will fare at the endgame. I played a feral druid for a bit in WoW and there were more than a few occasions where I would get boned by fight mechanics keeping me from getting into position.

Aside from that, I've had a hard time thinking of its DD advantage. It seems to have the weakest AE, lowest burst, and is the only DD that can do nothing at range. Mantra seems to be the only thing it has going for it. I hope I'm wrong though since its the one I had the most fun with.
 
erawsd said:
I want to main a Monk, but I am worried about how well its mechanics will fare at the endgame. I played a feral druid for a bit in WoW and there were more than a few occasions where I would get boned by fight mechanics keeping me from getting into position.

Aside from that, I've had a hard time thinking of its DD advantage. It seems to have the weakest AE, lowest burst, and is the only DD that can do nothing at range. Mantra seems to be the only thing it has going for it. I hope I'm wrong though since its the one I had the most fun with.
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Yeah, it's all about the required positional changes with how end game content always becomes more then "tank and spank" and will require mob movement and changes. It's not about being lazy, it's about wanting to play something with more flexibility. I mean imagine if MNK and BRD did around the same damage. Who wouldn't prefer a BRD in end game situations when they can do what they do from a much larger area?
 
theSlacker said:
Yeah, it's all about the required positional changes with how end game content always becomes more then "tank and spank" and will require mob movement and changes. It's not about being lazy, it's about wanting to play something with more flexibility. I mean imagine if MNK and BRD did around the same damage. Who wouldn't prefer a BRD in end game situations when they can do what they do from a much larger area?
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Well, this is what happened in just about every fight that existed in 1.x except Darnus Hardmode (since that fight lasted too long for stacking BLM to be viable) and Miser (since she jobbed to Fists of Fire so you threw like 4+ monks at her). Throw several BLM at it with a couple bards, win. Perhaps it's foolish of me, but I'd like to think they learned their lesson this time around.
 
omlet said:
Well, this is what happened in just about every fight that existed in 1.x except Darnus Hardmode (since that fight lasted too long for stacking BLM to be viable) and Miser (since she jobbed to Fists of Fire so you threw like 4+ monks at her). Throw several BLM at it with a couple bards, win. Perhaps it's foolish of me, but I'd like to think they learned their lesson this time around.
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CC 17' run was done with MNKs for Chimera, maybe just 1 BLM for ants.

Ifrit Xtreme didn't use BLM's either, although I saw some videos of people that had maybe 1 or 2 BLM (or maybe THM) but besides not being the norm, they didn't stack them either.
 
omlet said:
Well, this is what happened in just about every fight that existed in 1.x except Darnus Hardmode (since that fight lasted too long for stacking BLM to be viable) and Miser (since she jobbed to Fists of Fire so you threw like 4+ monks at her). Throw several BLM at it with a couple bards, win. Perhaps it's foolish of me, but I'd like to think they learned their lesson this time around.
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Well they may have. I mean there wasn't all these changing positional stuff in the game until all the complaining and the last phase right?

It is more a function of how these fights and the combat is designed. The same basic reason behind making the animations look less flashy, and thus less cool. There are only so many fights you can make that will allow a character to easily and accurately change position and orientation as low as every 2.5 seconds. You can balance that by making it so every class has to do the same movements with the same frequency, but that would run into the problem of having everything playing the exact same. You can make it so when the class that requires correct positioning has it they will do balls out more dps then anything else. That makes it so every fight needs to be crazy run around wild to balance it to ranged/other non position based classes. Or you can realize that too many positional based attacks just don't work well in this kind of game.

Ranged/melee balance is always a big issue as well. Range is going to be safer and have more options to where you attack from. The normal balance for that is to give melee more fast movement skills to allow them to get within and out of the circle of death around a mob, and/or higher base dps when they are in their smaller range. This is a delicate balance because slide it too far towards ranged, and you will have the situation that you mentioned. I don't have any experience with 1.0 though so I can't say for sure.

And now, like I mentioned above, the cool looking animations are another thing that takes a hit. When you want the faster paced gameplay that give more options for encounter design you need a faster paced combat system where the attacks you do don't seem like you are breaking the world apart with every animation. It "looks" less impressive, but allows for more varied encounter designs.
 
atomicstrawberry said:
Looking at these poll results, it seems that the PUG/MNK seems to be the least popular. I tried all the classes available during alpha / beta to around 10-15 but never much further, and based on that I was looking toward this class as my primary one, but I'm surprised at the lack of interest. Is there something I should know (like is it needlessly complicated later on or lacking decent output or something) or just a general lack of interest?
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SE messed mnk up, mnk was my 1st and favorite class in 1.0, took it to lvl 50 right away. Now I hate it and don't even want to play it anymore.
 
Seeing as how all beards for Hyur Highlander are all butt crack (most of the highlander is butt crack) , are they going to make or have some type of in game barber to give us better looks?
 
Beards....we need better beards.

As most, we make these avatars to look some what like ourselves,

ffxiv2013-08-0506-36-21-57_zpsc32196c4.jpg
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I need better options then to look as weathered as he does there.
 
theSlacker said:
Well they may have. I mean there wasn't all these changing positional stuff in the game until all the complaining and the last phase right?
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Not sure what you mean. If you are asking if the positional (rear/flank/front) combo things are new, no, that's how combos worked in 1.x as well, except in 1.x you enemies had animation lock making it sometimes impossible to tell which way they were actually facing when you did your attack because the server already considered them facing a different target while they were doing their animation. It made playing MNK and DRG a nightmare except against stationary targets. It's much much better now with the response times as snappy as they are. (line of thought continued after next quote)

You can make it so when the class that requires correct positioning has it they will do balls out more dps then anything else. That makes it so every fight needs to be crazy run around wild to balance it to ranged/other non position based classes. Or you can realize that too many positional based attacks just don't work well in this kind of game.
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The main difference now in ARR is the effect that positioning has on things. In 1.x, the positioning was a requirement for a skill to combo at all. This is a key difference. In ARR, using MNK as our example still, the positioning changes your damage some of your attacks but unlike in 1.x, a missed attack or a skill used from the wrong side doesn't end your combo and destroy your rotation, it just means you lost a few points of damage. A monk will still be able to do good damage against a highly mobile targets, like probably at least 75% of optimal damage whereas a 1.x MNK against a similar target would be doing like 25% of optimal damage because of broken combos. In ARR, if you combo all your skills from the front you still can keep your rotation going, you still get your greased lightning buff, etc. but you won't get the best damage from your skills. Big difference from 1.x and also a good way to keep melee jobs relevant in mobile combat (they'll shine when tank is holding target still but still be able to not be useless when having to move around).
 
Is there a list of level requirements anywhere?

Levequests at 5(?)
Change class at 10
Airship at 15
Retainers, Grand Company and personal Chocobo at 20(?)

Not sure how accurate those levels are, and I know some stuff like the inn is missing.
 
Reposting this here as it was ignored in the OT:
WeaponKnight said:
I need to buy 3 copies of this for my friends, but I'm not from the US.
I did buy my copy at Green Man Gaming, but then they had that confusion about seemingly selling me the UK version while claiming it was the US one.

Question: where's the best place to buy the digital version from outside the US? I'm guessing Amazon, but who knows...
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Seems like, with the normal combo system and the larger gap between normal and combo potencies, Lancer is more position and accuracy dependent than Pugilist.
 
Mechakira said:
Is there a list of level requirements anywhere?

Levequests at 5(?)
Change class at 10
Airship at 15
Retainers, Grand Company and personal Chocobo at 20(?)

Not sure how accurate those levels are, and I know some stuff like the inn is missing.
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I don't think Levequests open up until lvl10 unless I'm mistaken. And I think the Inn is opened at level 10 as well.
 
Mechakira said:
Is there a list of level requirements anywhere?

Levequests at 5(?)
Change class at 10
Airship at 15
Retainers, Grand Company and personal Chocobo at 20(?)

Not sure how accurate those levels are, and I know some stuff like the inn is missing.
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They are mostly right, but more than being level requirements, they have story quests requirements, you need to progress through the story to unlock most of the things. Since you could always grind on mobs/FATEs all the way to 20 or whatever but still wouldn't be able to get a Chocobo if you haven't followed the story.

Also to add to your list: Guildhests at 10, first dungeon at 15, Materia at 18.

WeaponKnight said:
Reposting this here as it was ignored in the OT:
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I don't know if the best place, but you didn't name the SE store, isn't it good for you?
 
omlet said:
Not sure what you mean. If you are asking if the positional (rear/flank/front) combo things are new, no, that's how combos worked in 1.x as well, except in 1.x you enemies had animation lock making it sometimes impossible to tell which way they were actually facing when you did your attack because the server already considered them facing a different target while they were doing their animation. It made playing MNK and DRG a nightmare except against stationary targets. It's much much better now with the response times as snappy as they are. (line of thought continued after next quote)
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I mean with the new combat system from the betas. The only positional attack in the early beta phases was the back attack from LNC, but then after a few phases and people complaining about how combat didn't require positioning like 1.0, they added the flank to LNC and the PUG attacks. Of course we hadn't seen PUG yet so that may have been the plan all along.

omlet said:
The main difference now in ARR is the effect that positioning has on things. In 1.x, the positioning was a requirement for a skill to combo at all. This is a key difference. In ARR, using MNK as our example still, the positioning changes your damage some of your attacks but unlike in 1.x, a missed attack or a skill used from the wrong side doesn't end your combo and destroy your rotation, it just means you lost a few points of damage. A monk will still be able to do good damage against a highly mobile targets, like probably at least 75% of optimal damage whereas a 1.x MNK against a similar target would be doing like 25% of optimal damage because of broken combos. In ARR, if you combo all your skills from the front you still can keep your rotation going, you still get your greased lightning buff, etc. but you won't get the best damage from your skills. Big difference from 1.x and also a good way to keep melee jobs relevant in mobile combat (they'll shine when tank is holding target still but still be able to not be useless when having to move around).
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I would say that the main difference now is that the combat system is designed to allow more faster paced and varied encounters, so it is harder to justify and work in too many positional requirements. I would also say that you are correct in your thought that the changes were "a good way to keep melee jobs relevant in mobile combat". I just think they are holding onto to much of the old positional based stuff still. As you said:

they'll shine when tank is holding target still but still be able to not be useless when having to move around
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The higher level we go to and more complex the fights get the more that dps will need to switch targets and even tanked targets moving around will become the normal encounter design. So unless they decide to stick with the design decision of making boss encounters and mobs mostly stationary (something that I thought the combat system was changed to prevent the limitation of) then having the strict position requirements for one class will be hard to balance. All the combat changes were not made just so we can forever have tank and spank fights. They were made to remove the limits that the old system had on how you could design encounters.

Or something.
 
So those of us just now getting into the beta for the first time should get an email this week, huh? I got a "you've been invited, wait for more details" email about a week and a half ago.
 
Xux said:
Seems like, with the normal combo system and the larger gap between normal and combo potencies, Lancer is more position and accuracy dependent than Pugilist.
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Where in the world are you getting that from?

MNK - Position dependent:
True Strike
Bootshine
Snap Punch
Dragon Kick
Twin Snakes

MNK - Position irrelevant:
Haymaker (use procs on evade, not part of rotation)
Touch of Death (DoT, not part of rotation)
Arm of the Destroyer
Rockbreaker
Demolish
Shoulder Tackle (gap-closing movement skill, not part of rotation)
Steel Peak (not part of rotation)
One-Ilm Punch
Howling Fist (not part of rotation)

DRG - Position dependent:
Heavy Thrust
Impulse Drive

DRG - Position irrelevant:
Feint
True Thrust
Vorpal Thrust
Leg Sweep
Full Thrust
Jump
Phlebotomize
Disembowel
Spineshatter Dive
Doomspike
Ring of Thorns
Dragonfire Dive
Chaos Thrust
 
SoraanTribal said:
I don't think Levequests open up until lvl10 unless I'm mistaken. And I think the Inn is opened at level 10 as well.
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I couldn't find concrete information on that either way, so I could be wrong.

Khrno said:
They are mostly right, but more than being level requirements, they have story quests requirements, you need to progress through the story to unlock most of the things. Since you could always grind on mobs/FATEs all the way to 20 or whatever but still wouldn't be able to get a Chocobo if you haven't followed the story.

Also to add to your list: Guildhests at 10, first dungeon at 15, Materia at 18.
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Right, that's a good point.

So level requirements, pending your character being at the appropriate point in the main story quests:

5 or 10(?) - Levequests
10 - Change Class
10 - Guildhests
15 - Airship Pass
15 - First Dungeon
18 - Materia
20 - Retainers
20 - Grand Companies
20 - Personal Chocobo
 
Duane Cunningham said:
So those of us just now getting into the beta for the first time should get an email this week, huh? I got a "you've been invited, wait for more details" email about a week and a half ago.
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I also got that email around the 27th of last month on one of my email accounts, and still have yet to get the code so I guess it'll be soon, specially since there have been people that already got some PS3 codes, although they supposedly were in the beta already or something.

Mechakira said:
20 - Grand Companies
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Wasn't the GC quest lv22? Or was that the level cap of the quest. I don't remember well, just that I was around lv22 when I did it.
 
omlet said:
Where in the world are you getting that from?

MNK - Position dependent:
True Strike
Bootshine
Snap Punch
Dragon Kick

MNK - Position irrelevant:
Haymaker (use procs on evade, not part of rotation)
Touch of Death (DoT, not part of rotation)
Arm of the Destroyer
Rockbreaker
Demolish
Shoulder Tackle (gap-closing movement skill, not part of rotation)
Steel Peak (not part of rotation)
One-Ilm Punch
Howling Fist (not part of rotation)

DRG - Position dependent:
Heavy Thrust

DRG - Position irrelevant:
Feint
True Thrust
Vorpal Thrust
Leg Sweep
Full Thrust
Jump
Phlebotomize
Disembowel
Spineshatter Dive
Doomspike
Ring of Thorns
Dragonfire Dive
Chaos Thrust
Click to expand...

Did you intentionally ignore Impulse Drive and its combo? Disembowel is position independent, but you probably don't want to start that combo unless you can use Impulse Drive optimally. The accuracy comment is because missing an attack in a combo ends the combo. Pugilists/Monks are still in the right stance even if they miss.
 
omlet said:
Where in the world are you getting that from?
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The stuff I mentioned earlier in that sentence. Mess up Vorpal Thrust and delay getting the extra 100 potency from the combo and the 200 potency from Full Thrust. Don't land Impulse Drive from behind and you miss out on 80 potency. Whereas, PGL loses, at most, 65 potency from not doing Bootshine from behind and you have a ten second window to keep the stances going.
 
theSlacker said:
I mean with the new combat system from the betas. The only positional attack in the early beta phases was the back attack from LNC, but then after a few phases and people complaining about how combat didn't require positioning like 1.0, they added the flank to LNC and the PUG attacks. Of course we hadn't seen PUG yet so that may have been the plan all along.
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Oh, gotcha. Yeah. I think that was the plan all along for PGL/MNK. I'm OK with it though, because now MNK and DRG play rather differently which is something I never felt in 1.x. Lancer being a bit more....... straight forward
badum-tsh
is fine.

All the combat changes were not made just so we can forever have tank and spank fights. They were made to remove the limits that the old system had on how you could design encounters.

Or something.
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Sure, but as someone who divided playtime in WoW pretty evenly between a disc/holy priest and a rogue, I am used to adjusting for positioning on the move and not easily doing my max DPS against something that's moving around.

The other key thing that we're not mentioning here is that in 1.x you could change jobs inside most dungeons. This created an environment where SE had to create "challenges" that could only be accomplished by having an entire party of people with multiple jobs leveled and geared. It encouraged stacking and caused the playerbase to shun certain jobs for certain fights, honestly out of necessity--in most cases the numbers just weren't there even if you were good at your (not ideal) job.

In ARR you can't do this anymore, so groups will need to be organized with a different criteria--namely, the setup you start with has to work for the whole dungeon. Seems like common sense to many MMO players, but yeah, Tanaka.
 
So how does it work for the jobs?

You level a dude to 15(w/e is required) then you change classes on the same guy and level that one to 30?

Do you go back to starting area when you change jobs does it put you there automatically?

I heard it is best to level the 15 requirement first then the 30 why is that?
 
^You change jobs by just switching your weapon. So I were Gladiator (Sword) and wanted to switch to Conjurer, I'd equip a wand or staff and be good to go. You'd have to walk or teleport back to a low level area to continue leveling a new class.

I would actually recommend leveling up a class to 20-22 first so you could get your battle chocobo companion which will help at lower levels (well, really, all levels). Leveling Conjurer a little to get spells like Cure or Protect would be useful if you wanted to do that first.
 
Nibiru said:
So how does it work for the jobs?

You level a dude to 15(w/e is required) then you change classes on the same guy and level that one to 30?

Do you go back to starting area when you change jobs does it put you there automatically?

I heard it is best to level the 15 requirement first then the 30 why is that?
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People say to level up the "sub class" to 15 first so you can level the main class to 30 in one go; you can do it either way. So you'd level the subclass 1-15, switch to the main class, level it 1-30, unlock the one or two jobs for the main class, and then switch between the main class and jobs from 30-50.
 
HiddenWings said:
Did you intentionally ignore Impulse Drive and its combo? Disembowel is position independent, but you probably don't want to start that combo unless you can use Impulse Drive optimally.
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Oops, nope, forgot to list it. I missed MNK's Twin Snakes skill, too. *edits in*

I don't remember how Disembowel in beta but its tooltip doesn't say anything about being position dependent. Did it require Impulse Drive to actually hit from behind for the actual combo effect?

The accuracy comment is because missing an attack in a combo ends the combo. Pugilists/Monks are still in the right stance even if they miss.
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If PGL/MNK misses, depending on what it is, they may lose all their Greased Lightning. That's about as big a hit to their DPS as missing a combo is to a DRG considering with GL III your GCD is under 2 seconds with decent gear. Granted, that's a "may" lose vs a "will lose" for DRG.

And speaking of that 2s GCD, all the more reason why MNK is more position dependent than DRG. In 12 seconds of combat a GL III MNK is going to do 2 rotations. For a "basic" scenario, that's probably going to include a Bootshine, Twin Snakes, Snap Punch, Dragon Kick, True Strike, and Snap Punch. All of these are dependent on their positioning to get the most oomph. That's the key thing here. Every single one of MNK's "main" rotation skills require you to reposition every 2 seconds. That's a lot more often than DRG needs to worry about.

Edit: Well, let's get technical here. Even if those skills all have positioning involved, MNK wouldn't always be repositioning every 2 seconds because some skills leave you in the position needed for the next skill. So it might be 4 seconds at most before you need to move again. Still a lot of movement and on top of that your rotations aren't clear-cut because of movement and buff/debuff timers. For example, Bootshine is better DPS than Dragon Kick but you need to work Dragon Kick into your rotation early and keep using it at least once every 15 seconds (almost every other rotation). Same with Twin Snakes to keep your damage buff active even though True Strike does better damage as your Raptor step of your rotation.

Edit again: Mind, I ain't saying DRG takes no brains to play.
 
omlet said:
In ARR you can't do this anymore, so groups will need to be organized with a different criteria--namely, the setup you start with has to work for the whole dungeon. Seems like common sense to many MMO players, but yeah, Tanaka.
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Gotta be fair with man, but he was long gone by the time Darkhold was released, so it was Yoshida's call to allow class change inside the dungeon, same for AV/CC, however it seems he thought it was a mistake since he didn't allow job changes in Hamlet and Skirmish.
 
Khrno said:
Gotta be fair with man, but he was long gone by the time Darkhold was released, so it was Yoshida's call to allow class change inside the dungeon, same for AV/CC, however it seems he thought it was a mistake since he didn't allow job changes in Hamlet and Skirmish.
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Yoshi was just honoring the original promise of the game of "you can change whenever and where ever!"

No surprise that didn't last long once more content started getting added.

Was fun when we went into skirmish the first time and tried to change jobs lol...we didn't finish that run.
 
omlet said:
Yoshi was just honoring the original promise of the game of "you can change whenever and where ever!"

No surprise that didn't last long once more content started getting added.

Was fun when we went into skirmish the first time and tried to change jobs lol...we didn't finish that run.
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Yeah you are right. He changed everything step by step, just like adding jobs and changing the battle system.
 
Khrno said:
I also got that email around the 27th of last month on one of my email accounts, and still have yet to get the code so I guess it'll be soon, specially since there have been people that already got some PS3 codes, although they supposedly were in the beta already or something.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, now that I look, it was actually the 27th for me too. Hope it's soon!
 
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