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[Teknopathetic]

Title shamelessly stolen from www.bluesnews.com where I first saw the story linked from (it's from a certain banned site, go to Blues News for the full link):


"OK, so what did you want to talk about today in regards to these PC issues on BioShock?

Given the internets and what they are -- with their tubes and all -- I want to sort of talk about the concerns people have. We take the concerns people have very seriously. There's been some concern like, "What happens if it's three years from now, or ten years from now, when I want to play this game. And, you know, Irrational Games has been hit by a meteor?" We will unset the online activation at some point in the future -- we're not talking about when. If people have concern about that they shouldn't be worried about that. This activation is for the early period of the game when it's really hot and there are people really trying to find ways to play the game without buying it. Of course, there are a lot of people who are legitimately trying to play it. We're not trying to be Draconian, we're trying to find a balance."

 

[Danne-Danger]

Now that makes it a pretty good strategy.

 

[bee]

i had a look into it, the game is already half way to being cracked and probably wont last another week, however thats a week longer than most most pc games last and will of gained them some decent pc revenue and its certainly a much better situation than the xbox 360 release which appeared online a week or so before release.

 

[TemplaerDude]

everything gets cracked eventually, it's a fact of life these days, and honestly a system that creates almost as much hassle for any legitimate buyer as it does a pirate is not a good system.

 

[larvi]

What a stupid comment. If they get hit by a meteor how in the hell are they going to remove the activation? And there are plenty of other scenarios where this won't happen, i.e. bankruptcy, getting bought out by another company, etc. Personally I'll wait until the protection is removed before I buy it, hell it will probably be 4.99 at gogamer by that time anyway and will finally be patched to take care of the bugs.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"What a stupid comment. If they get hit by a meteor how in the hell are they going to remove the activation? And there are plenty of other scenarios where this won't happen, i.e. bankruptcy, getting bought out by another company, etc. Personally I'll wait until the protection is removed before I buy it, hell it will probably be 4.99 at gogamer by that time anyway and will finally be patched to take care of the bugs."



...Sar...casm?

 

[TemplaerDude]

god i hope so.

 

[Gadfly]

I read this thread title as we have to activate the same installation over and over again.

In any case, IMO, this whole business with on-line activation does not help PC gaming business.

 

[Burger]

It hasn't been cracked already ? Wow. Thats pretty good going.

Every day past release that it stays secure is a major feat, and I'm sure is leading to boosted sales.

 

[TemplaerDude]

I read this thread title as we have to activate the same installation over and over again.

In any case, IMO, this whole business with on-line activation does not help PC gaming business.

i don't mind online activation, but this method is really, really bad. i mean, i didn't have an issue with it, but obviously a lot of other people have. and that's not good, really, when your paying customer is having problems playing a game because of activation.

 

[Gozan]

Of course, there are a lot of people who are legitimately trying to play it. We're not trying to be Draconian, we're trying to find a balance."

Am I the only one who thought that last sentence said "We're not trying to be Dragona, we're trying to find a balance"?

 

[Diablos]

Good.

 

[fallout]

What I'd like an explanation on is why the Steam version has it.

 

[Pimpbaa]

This is good news. Wouldn't make much sense to keep it in there forever. Not that it caused me any problems. But I was more worried about when I would want to play it a few upgrades from now. Of course you gotta take into account formats and such too.

 

[Xavien]

It hasn't been cracked already ? Wow. Thats pretty good going.

Every day past release that it stays secure is a major feat, and I'm sure is leading to boosted sales.

It's the first game with a new type of SecuROM protection, it's gonna take a little time for it to be cracked, but once it is, SecuROM is back to square one again, any game that uses it or an updated version of it will be cracked almost immediately after release.

 

[aznpxdd]

Meh, this SecuRom DRM isn't going to last long. I bet all the teams see this as a taunt and a challenge, it'll probably be cracked next week.

 

[MirageDwarf]

Personally I think all PC games should go for this. I totally support this. This is the idea that I always thought will help PC gaming industry. At least to some extent. Protect it while it's hot. Sure somebody will find a way around it but key should be changed game to game.

I'm not saying SecuROM is the best product to use for this. All, I think, it needs is mandatory online activation. If developers want to develop their own activation process they should go for it.

 

[TemplaerDude]

pc games should not go for something that fucks with their customer base in any way, because they already need less reasons for people to pirate games.

any complaint from any portion of gamers about the protection of a game should automatically make someone think "oh fuck, we shouldn't use that".

 

[Amused_To_Death]

I really wonder why devs still bother making PC games when they barely get any return on their investment, piracy is killing PC gaming and forcing devs to take darconian measures such as this...

 

[laserbeam]

I really wonder why devs still bother making PC games when they barely get any return on their investment, piracy is killing PC gaming and forcing devs to take darconian measures such as this...

Not really. Pirates would never buy the game in the first place so no money was lost really.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

As much as I dislike the inconveniences of having protection on a disk that becomes bothersome they do seem to be stepping up to solve the problem and for that I have to applaud them. Some stuff still bothers me but they're taking a step in the right direction. I just hope they don't wait like 10 years to deactivate it. And I hope its a good time period to protect their sales but is also considerate to the consumer.

 

[Zynx]

I don't even have a PC capable of playing today's games, so it really doesn't apply to me - but when cracked copies are BETTER (far less hassle) than LEGITIMATE copies, DRM is basically punishing the actual purchaser of the software - which pisses me off.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

As much as I dislike the inconveniences of having protection on a disk that becomes bothersome they do seem to be stepping up to solve the problem and for that I have to applaud them. Some stuff still bothers me but they're taking a step in the right direction. I just hope they don't wait like 10 years to deactivate it. And I hope its a good time period to protect their sales but is also considerate to the consumer.

They'll probably deactivate the DRM once it gets cracked. Personally I think it's amazing that this game has managed to survive the onslaught of pirates so far! (Especially a game as high profile as this!) The pirates have no one to blame other then themselves for the DRM on Bioshock and I say that 2K have done a good thing here. PC gaming is struggling because of piracy and desperate times call for desperate measures!

 

[Roat]

Removing it in the future doesn't take away the problems that people faced in the past few days - buying it at a store, taking it home and discovering that the activation server has tanked or it isn't a particular time on the activation date.

These promises are great, and I don't doubt that Mr Levine really cares about his product and wants people to have a good experience, but the deactivation would be up to the higher-ups on the publishing side. Imposing severe restrictions on the product and then promising to remove them at some date in the future isn't exactly cause for celebration.

 

[CrushDance]

Teknopathetic and his *[/quote]* One day maybe.:lol

Anyway although this is a problem since it's not permanent(Has any other game ever been like this?) I'm sure it's going to have owners angry about it.

Pretty weird.

 

[Roat]

Anyway although this is a problem since it's not permanent(Has any other game ever been like this?) I'm sure it's going to have owners angry about it.

A few times developers have released a patch a while after a game's release to remove the CD in drive check, Epic did this with UT2004

 

[Zenith]

This activation is for the early period of the game when it's really hot and there are people really trying to find ways to play the game without buying it. Of course, there are a lot of people who are legitimately trying to play it. We're not trying to be Draconian, we're trying to find a balance."

The problem with this is that he assumes Bioshock will take longer to crack than your average game. it hasn't, but the consumers who bought it legally still suffer more for this stupid DRM.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"The problem with this is that he assumes Bioshock will take longer to crack than your average game. it hasn't, but the consumers who bought it legally still suffer more for this stupid DRM."


Actually, you're incorrect here. BioShock is still as of now uncracked nor is the online activation circumvented in any way. While the DRM may have had its issues (not really, blown over, for the most part), the average game is on the newsgroups and torrent sites before its even released. To still be pirate-free 4-5+ days after the fact means that it already HAS taken longer to crack than your average game. And then some.

 

[InsertCredit]

I approve this way of handling copy protection. At least when in, let's say six months after release, a patch will be given that removes the entire activation system.

This will stall crackers at least for the few sales-wise more important weeks, while your copy will be valid for the rest of your life.

 

[slidewinder]

That was always Starforce's official line, that they encouraged publishers to release an un-DRM'ed patch once the initial release critical period had passed.

Publishers never really did that I heard of (and it could be that Starforce was just trying to deflect criticism and wouldn't have made it easy). It'll be interesting to see if 2k follows through.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Publishers never really did that I heard of (and it could be that Starforce was just trying to deflect criticism and wouldn't have made it easy). It'll be interesting to see if 2k follows through."


Everything I recall hearing about Starforce was that they were the copyright equivalent of the Mob.

 

[Gibous]

everything gets cracked eventually, it's a fact of life these days, and honestly a system that creates almost as much hassle for any legitimate buyer as it does a pirate is not a good system.

Obviously the point of copy protection isn't to stop piracy, it's to stop people lending the games to their friends and buying second hand games. When you think about it from the publisher's perspective, buying second hand games is exactly the same as piracy, they don't see a cent of the sale.

 

[Ramenman]

If people have concern about that they shouldn't be worried about that.

I people are worried they shouldn't be worried.

Amazing news

 

[derder]

My friend refuses to rent it on 360, or buy it on either.

He is waiting for a working crack, no matter how long it takes. As far as I know, I've never heard of a PC game lasting this long. I'm not into that stuff though :/

 

[Nerevar]

Obviously the point of copy protection isn't to stop piracy, it's to stop people lending the games to their friends and buying second hand games. When you think about it from the publisher's perspective, buying second hand games is exactly the same as piracy, they don't see a cent of the sale.

If that were true every form of DRM would prevent multiple activations, which isn't true at all. The most common forms of DRM (CD checks, etc) work perfectly fine for second hand games.

The point of DRM is to stop casual piracy. The kind where 1 person buys a game, installs it, then gives it to 5 of their friends and they all install it and play online together. Most devs realize the hardcore pirates won't be stopped, but the majority of lost sales is in the middle with casual piracy.

But as I've learned, most pirates will say anything to justify and rationalize their behavior.

 

[Max@GC]

pacsteam...anyone?

 

[Kildace]

There's a cracked PC copy floating around the Internet since this morning. 4-5 days is pretty phenomenal though as far as PC games go, it must have had an effect on the sales.

Edit: Is it frowned upon to post that there's a cracked version available? If so don't hesitate to delete my post, mods. Was just trying to be informative.

 

[Lord Error]

That's actually a pretty cool idea. My biggest fear for all these activating PC games always was that they won't be playable some years down in the future. If it lets them combat the piracy early on, but doesn't gimp things down the line if the company somehow ceases to exist, more power to them.

 

[Max@GC]

A comment from somewhere:

 

[Gibous]

If that were true every form of DRM would prevent multiple activations, which isn't true at all. The most common forms of DRM (CD checks, etc) work perfectly fine for second hand games.

The point of DRM is to stop casual piracy. The kind where 1 person buys a game, installs it, then gives it to 5 of their friends and they all install it and play online together. Most devs realize the hardcore pirates won't be stopped, but the majority of lost sales is in the middle with casual piracy.

But as I've learned, most pirates will say anything to justify and rationalize their behavior.

Did you even read my post? "...it's to stop people lending the games to their friends...". If lending the games to your friends is piracy, then yes, copy protection to to prevent piracy, but I don't know anyone who considers that piracy. Also, everyone knows how to download a crack, so I don't know how you define a hard core pirate. I'd call someone who has their console modchipped to run pirated games hardcore. Downloading cracks is pretty casual. Are there even any games being released these days that have simple CD checks as their sole form of copy protection?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"The point of DRM is to stop casual piracy. The kind where 1 person buys a game, installs it, then gives it to 5 of their friends and they all install it and play online together. Most devs realize the hardcore pirates won't be stopped, but the majority of lost sales is in the middle with casual piracy."

This is kind of a moot point in my opinion because I can buy one console game and let 5 friends borrow it so they can beat it without spending a dime. I mean its less convenient on consoles then pc but its still the idea I think its mostly for piracy reasons and not sharing with friends.

 

[Jon_Danger]

IF this is true, that is actually a really good strategy

but, they could just be saying this to cool everyone down. I bet the copy protection lasts a year.

 

[syllogism]

There's a cracked PC copy floating around the Internet since this morning. 4-5 days is pretty phenomenal though as far as PC games go, it must have had an effect on the sales.

Edit: Is it frowned upon to post that there's a cracked version available? If so don't hesitate to delete my post, mods. Was just trying to be informative.

Doesn't sound like this crack works so the clock is still ticking

 

[Caesar III]

reminds me on unreal tournament. When I bought it at release I had to put in the cd all time. With one of the Patches I didn't need the cd anymore.

Great to hear!

 

[Vaandaviii]

This thing is not improving sales. PC Gamers know Bioshock will be crackeable in the following days. PC gamers that buy games, will buy it. PC gamers that pirate games, usually pirate EVERY game, and this will be no exception...

 

[Nerevar]

Did you even read my post? "...it's to stop people lending the games to their friends...". If lending the games to your friends is piracy, then yes, copy protection to to prevent piracy, but I don't know anyone who considers that piracy. Also, everyone knows how to download a crack, so I don't know how you define a hard core pirate. I'd call someone who has their console modchipped to run pirated games hardcore. Downloading cracks is pretty casual. Are there even any games being released these days that have simple CD checks as their sole form of copy protection?

there's a world of difference between "lending" a game and giving it to your buddy, having them install it & a no-cd crack, then EVERYONE PLAYING LAN together. That's piracy, any way you slice it. DRM is designed to prevent that, not you installing it, completing it, uninstalling it, then giving it to your friend (i.e. "lending").

 

[Fragamemnon]

I took a look over at the the internet equivalent of the tortugas, and Bioshock for the PC is still yet to be cracked.

I'd say that the DRM, however hated, has served its purpose well. The game has been out for a week in the US and the copy protection wasn't broken. I'm hopeful that the casual pirate who really wanted to play the game just broke down and bought it instead of stealing it.

If sales of Bioshock on the PC turn out strong-and I think they will, even in proporition to the sales on the 360 when you include the Steam sales-I think Take2 should feel pretty justified in their decision to include this kind of DRM. I think it could have been managed much better in terms of PR and implementation details like server uptimes and number of installs, but overall it appears to have worked.

I know there's a set of gamers out there that want no DRM, and for some games it actually works out fine (see GalCiv2-a game with a much more mature target audience), but for something with very wide appeal like Bioshock the choice is the right one.

 

[sk3tch]

I took a look over at the the internet equivalent of the tortugas, and Bioshock for the PC is still yet to be cracked.

Actually, I checked Usenet and there are multiple examples of cracks out there, as well as the entire game posted (and even the limited edition DVD posted in XviD).

Either way...it has taken much longer than most games. And I think the sales will be good.

 

[finntroll]

Those are just no dvd cracks not drm cracks. Plus this game has seen tons of fake releases. Of course the full game has been posted on torrents and usenet but without a drm crack it's pointless for now. I'm tired of hearing that pirates will never buy the game so this drm doesn't work, just read some threads at pirate forums and you'll see certain people have broken down and bought the game because it hasn't been cracked yet. Granted who knows if those users outweigh the legit customers that haven't bought the game due to the crazy drm.

 

[Doytch]

Interesting. I've always been interested in the counterplay between hackers and media companies. I did a quick search yesterday to see if Bioshock's been cracked yet and I found some cracked exes, but you guys are right, they're just no-cd patches. I think this is the longest time I've seen for high profile game to get cracked since the Steam version of HL2.