Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 - The Final Eight Episodes - Sundays on AMC

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KMD said:
Because Walt wasn't trying to kill either of them?
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Now Walt is a messiah, able to predict exactly how much collateral damage will occur from an accident. For all Walt knew when he took that drastic step he could have killed Hank and himself. It was a gamble. Same as when he poisoned Brock, there was no way to know whether he would have died or not due to the highly sensitive nature of the poison - and yet he still took that risk with a completely innocent child.

Walt doesn't give a fuck. Dunno why that's a revelation to you.
 
Amir0x said:
Now Walt is a messiah, able to predict exactly how much collateral damage will occur from an accident. For all Walt knew when he took that drastic step he could have killed Hank and himself. It was a gamble. Same as when he poisoned Brock, there was no way to know whether he would have died or not due to the highly sensitive nature of the poison - and yet he still took that risk with a completely innocent child.

Walt doesn't give a fuck. Dunno why that's a revelation to you.
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Where did I say anything regarding Walt's demeanor or behavior other than it's evident he wasn't trying to kill them? I've had to take some risks before too that could have ended badly but I wasn't trying to kill anyone.
 
KMD said:
Where did I say anything regarding Walt's demeanor or behavior other than it's evident he wasn't trying to kill them? I've had to take some risks before too that could have ended badly but I wasn't trying to kill anyone.
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And if Walt shoots Hank in the chest we can say he was hoping secretly he would have survived but because Walt is superman he automatically knew he would! What a champion of virtue. A true genius.
 
ivysaur12 said:
My brother and his astute critical analysis of last night's Breaking Bad:

oP2IKva.png
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This is the greatest thing ever

John .. John .. Oh my god, ..


:lmao
 
Raiden said:
This is the greatest thing ever

John .. John .. Oh my god, ..


:lmao
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seriously though he's like 'stahp John wat r u doin'

BenjaminBirdie said:
I love the Nursing Home bit and they cut to Walt trying to physically worm his way out of the accusation.

Buh-rilliant
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I can't wait til his bullshit pretense melts away with Jesse as well, and all that remains is his raw back waiting to be whipped into submission for what he has done
 
Xbox video has Blood Money up along with the Season pass. Thinking about pulling the trigger just to rewatch without commercials.
 
pulga said:
What an amazing cap to the episode. Dat threat.

Jesse needs to stop the whining ASAP and go back to being awesome Jesse soon. I understand the need to have him mope but just get it over with quick, there's only seven episodes left.
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I don't see Jesse saying "YEAAA BITCH!!" anytime soon.
 
Jesse wouldn't kill Walt over the fact he killed Mike, surely.

Shit, Mike tried to kill Walt at least twice this season alone until Jesse intervened.

Mike would've killed him a long time ago if it wasn't for Jesse, so fuck Mike

:'(
 
KMD said:
Where did I say anything regarding Walt's demeanor or behavior other than it's evident he wasn't trying to kill them? I've had to take some risks before too that could have ended badly but I wasn't trying to kill anyone.
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You missed Walt teleporting from the vehicle at the last second, making it so Hank was the only one at risk. Your imagination also fooled you into believing Walt spent half the season trying to save Hank's ass from Gus along with his own ass and Jesse's.
 
bangladesh said:
i don't think lily of the valley is fatal

i think walt knew that
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Of course Lily of the Valley is deadly. Extremely so. Link

All parts of the plant are highly poisonous, including the red berries which may be attractive to children.[19][20] If ingested—even in small amounts—the plant can cause abdominal pain, vomiting, and a reduced heart rate.

...

Although deadly, the plant has been used as a folk remedy in moderate amounts,[22] and is currently used by herbalists as a restricted herbal remedy.
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As you can see, it is absolutely deadly. What's worse, some people are allergic to Lily of the Valley and react even more violently, dying much quicker. There's also no way Walt could have known if that was true of Brock or not (and, by the way, there were moments when Brock might have actually not have made it, the Doctor's were worried at first if you remember leading Jesse to tell them he might have been poisoned and then he got questioned by the police)

He risked an innocent child's life to save his own, no matter what he'll tell you about his family. People need to get over this fact. Walt's a monster.
 
Amir0x said:
Of course Lily of the Valley is deadly. Extremely so. Link



As you can see, it is absolutely deadly. What's worse, some people are allergic to Lily of the Valley and react even more violently, dying much quicker. There's also no way Walt could have known if that was true of Brock or not (and, by the way, there were moments when Brock might have actually not have made it, the Doctor's were worried at first if you remember leading Jesse to tell them he might have been poisoned and then he got questioned by the police)

He risked an innocent child's life to save his own, no matter what he'll tell you about his family. People need to get over this fact. Walt's a monster.
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welp
 
Whether Walt is a monster or not doesn't mean he wants everyone he encounters dead. He DIDN'T intend for himself and Hank to die. He DIDN'T intend for Brock to die. The latter we have a direct statement from Gilligan on Talking Bad as confirmation. However that may be, he knew the dose was only enough to make him ill or science or whatever the reason is, the creator said Walt was making him sick, not trying to kill him.

He is a despicable person and he takes nasty risks, but in these cases his intent was not to kill. Intent doesn't preclude one's actions from causing more harm then that intent obviously.
 
Amir0x said:
by the way I absolutely adore that Hank brought up the fact that Walt tried to kill them in a car accident so he wouldn't get to the laundrymat
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I loved that because the point was made that Hank went through all those realizations without showing us some intelligence-insulting flashback montage or some shit like that. Instead we just get Hank having a panic attack while driving and you know all that stuff is coming back up in his head without them having to bash us over the head with it
 
Amir0x said:
Of course Lily of the Valley is deadly. Extremely so. Link



As you can see, it is absolutely deadly. What's worse, some people are allergic to Lily of the Valley and react even more violently, dying much quicker. There's also no way Walt could have known if that was true of Brock or not (and, by the way, there were moments when Brock might have actually not have made it, the Doctor's were worried at first if you remember leading Jesse to tell them he might have been poisoned and then he got questioned by the police)

He risked an innocent child's life to save his own, no matter what he'll tell you about his family. People need to get over this fact. Walt's a monster.
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See, you say he's a monster, but that means nothing to me.

I know that already. He's still the best character on the show
 
blainethemono said:
I loved that because the point was made that Hank went through all those realizations without showing us some intelligence-insulting flashback montage or some shit like that. Instead we just get Hank having a panic attack while driving and you know all that stuff is coming back up in his head without them having to bash us over the head with it
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To be fair, it happened so long ago some people probably could have benefited from a flashback or two.
 
blainethemono said:
I loved that because the point was made that Hank went through all those realizations without showing us some intelligence-insulting flashback montage or some shit like that
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Yup. It was a brilliant storytelling technique. Just hearing it all come out of Hank's mouth was somehow cathartic.

-griffy- said:
Whether Walt is a monster or not doesn't mean he wants everyone he encounters dead. He DIDN'T intend for himself and Hank to die. He DIDN'T intend for Brock to die. The latter we have a direct statement from Gilligan on Talking Bad as confirmation. However that may be, he knew the dose was only enough to make him ill or science or whatever the reason is, the creator said Walt was making him sick, not trying to kill him.

He is a despicable person and he takes nasty risks, but in these cases his intent was not to kill. Intent doesn't preclude one's actions from causing more harm then that intent obviously.
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Ah the world is paved with the corpses of good intentions. I mean any of these crimes would obviously put Walt away for life. But do you think that the judge would somehow feel he had a bad life or something?

"Don't worry, I understand. Poor Walt. You were just trying to save your desperate family, you surely didn't INTEND to try to kill Brock and you definitely didn't INTEND to try to kill Hank. You just happened to walk by and poison Brock, you didn't even know what got a hold of you, and then later you just had a spaz and only accidentally almost caused a severe accident. I know you were crossing your fingers the whole time hoping they came out OK. That was so sweet of you. I hope the prison treats you well, you don't deserve this punishment."

bangladesh said:
welp
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Batigol said:
See, you say he's a monster, but that means nothing to me.

I know that already. He's still the best character on the show
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He is the best character of the show. But as I said earlier, I long since graduated fifth grade, and I understand with fiction that doesn't also mean you endorse his actions and hope to see him succeed for them. One can think the character is the best - as Walt clearly is the most fleshed out and superbly acted - and still understand, because we're all adults here, that he needs to go away for life.
 
A new theory I have is Walt is going after Lydia with the M60, and it wouldn't surprise me if she kills Jesse or Walts family. Hence Walt going after her?
 
I feel like Hank's monologue was written to make it crystal clear to the audience Walt is a turd. I mean, I thought it was even a little on the nose. Fascinating that people read it differently. Not that their wrong necessarily, I just find it hard to see where they are coming from.

Walt being a monster is WHY I like the show.
 
Amir0x said:
Ah the world is paved with the corpses of good intentions. I mean any of these crimes would obviously put Walt away for life. But do you think that the judge would somehow feel he had a bad life or something?

"Don't worry, I understand. Poor Walt. You were just trying to save your desperate family, you surely didn't INTEND to try to kill Brock and you definitely didn't INTEND to try to kill Hank. You just happened to walk by and poison Brock, you didn't even know what got a hold of you, and then later you just had a spaz and only accidentally almost caused a severe accident. I know you were crossing your fingers the whole time hoping they came out OK. That was so sweet of you. I hope the prison treats you well, you don't deserve this punishment."
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I'm sorry, but I didn't say his intent excuses his actions or makes him innocent somehow. In fact in my post I agree he is a despicable person. I'm just trying to illustrate that the picture of Walt you paint in your posts don't necessarily agree with the Walt on the show, even if that Walt is a horrible, narcissistic, self centered monster of a man who let's pride ruin his and others lives.
 
Batigol said:
See, you say he's a monster, but that means nothing to me.

I know that already. He's still the best character on the show
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That's never been the argument or debate though, some people legitimately think Walter is still innocent and not that bad of a dude, that the justifications are enough for his actions.

Thinking that Walt is really a good guy is an odd interpretation that gets challenged a lot, each time I rewatch the entire series its incredibly easy to see Walt has been manipulative and ego hungry from the start.
 
I can't see how anyone can root for anyone but the children in Monsters Inc. That's a damn movie where literal MONSTERS scare children for nothing more than a form of energy. Shit was deplorable.
 
-griffy- said:
I'm sorry, but I didn't say his intent excuses his actions or makes him innocent somehow.
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You're absolutely trying to cushion his actions. When you poison someone (edit: with a deadly poison, obviously), you automatically assume the risk that they may die. That is literally what would happen in the court of law, attempted murder. You don't get the right afterwards to say "well gosh darn I didn't INTEND for him to die - and well looky, he totally didn't - so that somehow makes it better morally!" Seriously, some people genuinely live on the Moon or something if they think that would be the case.

KMD said:
I can't see how anyone can root for anyone but the children in Monsters Inc. That's a damn movie where literal MONSTERS scare children for nothing more than a form of energy. Shit was deplorable.
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Are we at the false equivalencies segment of the debate already?
 
KMD said:
I can't see how anyone can root for anyone but the children in Monsters Inc. That's a damn movie where literal MONSTERS scare children for nothing more than a form of energy. Shit was deplorable.
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Give me Walter Inc. where he goes through doors to different kids houses and tries to sell them meth. Pixar needs some diversity while keeping the charm.
 
Staccat0 said:
I feel like Hank's monologue was written to make it crystal clear to the audience Walt is a turd. I mean, I thought it was even a little on the nose. Fascinating that people read it differently. Not that their wrong necessarily, I just find it hard to see where they are coming from.

Walt being a monster is WHY I like the show.
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There is no doubt in my mind now Walt is the 'villain' in those terms.

Hank is the hero in the traditional sense. The cut to that picture of him grinning like a loon for his Schraderbräu during his absolute despair and antagonising in the Garage montage was just brutal.

The way this transformation has been done over five years has been a joy to watch. I would say I want them both to 'win', but if anything this show has preached is that there is no black and white. There will be no winners nor losers.
 
Amir0x said:
You're absolutely trying to cushion his actions. When you poison someone, you automatically assume the risk that they may die. That is literally what would happen in the court of law, attempted murder. You don't get the right afterwards to say "well gosh darn I didn't INTEND for him to die - and well looky, he totally didn't - so that somehow makes it better morally!" Seriously, some people genuinely live on the Moon or something if they think that would be the case.
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According to Vince Gilligan, Walt believed he was only causing Brock to get ill. I don't care what a court of law says, I'm talking only about what Walt himself believes. What a court would believe has no bearing on the discussion. Poisoning Brock to make him ill is just as despicable as poisoning him to kill him in this case I'd say. He's selfishly using a child's wellbeing as a pawn in order to manipulate Jesse into siding with him.

I'm not trying to cushion his actions, I'm stating facts about what Walt believes.
 
liquidtmd said:
There is no doubt in my mind now Walt is the villain.

Hank is the hero. The cut to that picture of him grinning like a loon for his Schraderbräu during his absolute despair and antagonising in the Garage montage was just brutal.

The way this transformation has been done over five years has been a joy to watch. I would say I want them both to 'win', but if anything this show has preached is that there is no black and white. There will be no winners nor losers.
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I genuinely think Hank is going to do some nasty shit to Walt, by the end they might be a PB&J of hate and apathy.
 
-griffy- said:
According to Vince Gilligan, Walt believed he was only causing Brock to get ill. I don't care what a court of law says, I'm talking only about what Walt himself believes. What a court would believe has no bearing on the discussion. Poisoning Brock to make him ill is just as despicable as poisoning him to kill him in this case I'd say. He's selfishly using a child's wellbeing as a pawn in order to manipulate Jesse into siding with him.

I'm not trying to cushion his actions, I'm stating facts about what Walt believes.
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Walt can believe that Unicorns fly, he'd still be factually wrong. Just like he'd be there. He can lie to himself about not INTENDING to kill Brock, but he used a Deadly Poison and therefore knew the risks. He's a fucking Chemist and a pretty brilliant one at that. Only an abject moron wouldn't know what he was taking on.
 
Amir0x said:
Of course Lily of the Valley is deadly. Extremely so. Link



As you can see, it is absolutely deadly. What's worse, some people are allergic to Lily of the Valley and react even more violently, dying much quicker. There's also no way Walt could have known if that was true of Brock or not (and, by the way, there were moments when Brock might have actually not have made it, the Doctor's were worried at first if you remember leading Jesse to tell them he might have been poisoned and then he got questioned by the police)

He risked an innocent child's life to save his own, no matter what he'll tell you about his family. People need to get over this fact. Walt's a monster.
Click to expand...


Eh, if he were a true monster with no morals he would have just used the Ricin. Im not trying to say Walt is a hero or should deserve credit, but he didn't try to kill Brock straight out.

I am on Team Walt because I want him to go out in a blaze of glory like Tony Montana and to have people forever remember the name Heisenberg as one of the true bad asses and anti-heroes in the history of TV. I could definitely accept an ending where he just goes out like the pathetic loser he appears to be in the flash forwards, but I trust Vince Gilligan and crew to come up with something worthy of the series either way.
 
Amir0x said:
Yup. It was a brilliant storytelling technique. Just hearing it all come out of Hank's mouth was somehow cathartic.



Ah the world is paved with the corpses of good intentions. I mean any of these crimes would obviously put Walt away for life. But do you think that the judge would somehow feel he had a bad life or something?

"Don't worry, I understand. Poor Walt. You were just trying to save your desperate family, you surely didn't INTEND to try to kill Brock and you definitely didn't INTEND to try to kill Hank. You just happened to walk by and poison Brock, you didn't even know what got a hold of you, and then later you just had a spaz and only accidentally almost caused a severe accident. I know you were crossing your fingers the whole time hoping they came out OK. That was so sweet of you. I hope the prison treats you well, you don't deserve this punishment."





He is the best character of the show. But as I said earlier, I long since graduated fifth grade, and I understand with fiction that doesn't also mean you endorse his actions and hope to see him succeed for them. One can think the character is the best - as Walt clearly is the most fleshed out and superbly acted - and still understand, because we're all adults here, that he needs to go away for life.
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It would be a boring end to the show if he just went away for life, imo.

I want him to go down all guns blazing. Just go completely off the rails
 
Amir0x said:
You're absolutely trying to cushion his actions. When you poison someone (edit: with a deadly poison, obviously), you automatically assume the risk that they may die. That is literally what would happen in the court of law, attempted murder. You don't get the right afterwards to say "well gosh darn I didn't INTEND for him to die - and well looky, he totally didn't - so that somehow makes it better morally!" Seriously, some people genuinely live on the Moon or something if they think that would be the case.



Are we at the false equivalencies segment of the debate already?
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I'm not even debating anything. All I said was I thought you were making a troll post to get the Walt is terrible conversation to come up, which it did and so, hunch confirmed with the way you've replied.
 
I don't get this discussion about Walt. It's my opinion, but in my eyes it's not the question whether he is bad, but how bad is he? And i think he's evil. At first he probably had good intentions, but eventually there's a pile of bodies behind him, family in permanent stress an danger and he made tons of poison that destroyed (and killed) countless lives. S5E Spoiler
When he had a great chance to quit in season 5 he didn't grasp it with both hands. He hesitated and found a way to not quit completely. And the way he lied to Jesse in S5 Episode 9 shows he can lie to everyone he loves, to there face and with complete conviction.
I draw comparison traits to Dexter, the serial killer of the show by the same name. S5EP9 Spoiler
In the end it was pride, he could have taken or borrowed the money and get the treatment and maybe even live (all that stress can't be good for cancer therapy, without it it might not have come back).
Again, just my opinion.
 
Roland1979 said:
I don't get this discussion about Walt. It's my opinion, but in my eyes it's not the question whether he is bad, but how bad is he? And i think he's evil. At first he probably had good intentions, but eventually there's a pile of bodies behind him, family in permanent stress an danger and he made tons of poison that destroyed (and killed) countless lives. When he had a great chance to quit in season 5 he didn't grasp it with both hands. He hesitated and found a way to not quit completely. S5EP9 Spoiler
And the way he lied to Jesse in S5 Episode 9 shows he can lie to everyone he loves, to there face and with complete conviction.
I draw comparison traits to Dexter, the serial killer of the show by the same name. S5EP9 Spoiler
In the and is was proud, he could have taken or borrowed the money and get the treatment and maybe even live (all that stress can't be good for cancer therapy, without it it might not have come back).
Again, just my opinion.
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No need to put spoiler tags on episodes that have already aired
 
Oh man this one reddit post about Walter taking something from everyone he kills has me really worried. Walter is already way off the deep end if he goes through with what I think he's gonna do I might seriously need to start rooting for Hank.

Hindle said:
A new theory I have is Walt is going after Lydia with the M60, and it wouldn't surprise me if she kills Jesse or Walts family. Hence Walt going after her?
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Walt's family probably gets attacked and hurt. Hank somehow gets into the crossfire. Walt calls in that model 60 vacuum cleaner to disappear and gather his weapons in order to destroy Lydia's operation.
 
Do people even realize that Walter didn't admit anything to Hank's accusations? He just warned Hank to back the fuck off. Walter didn't imply or accepted that he is Heisenberg.
 
I don't give a fuck about other characters, I want to see more of Walt coming out on top, moments like that are the most enjoyable part of BB for me. Simple.

Now you can call me a bad person, and that I don't have a conscience or something like I have to be super serious while watching a TV series.
 
i knew walt was a monster even when i didn't think of the capabilities of that plant..

when jesse explained to walt that the doctors told him that the plant was common and that kids are susceptible to eating the berries because they are sweet, it seemed to me like something that would give you something along the lines of mild food poisoning

that said, i am still rooting for walt.. i still have a feeling he was aiming for brock to live and had modified the berries to be as non fatal as possible while still having the kid exhibit signs of sickness.. when walt heard that brock was safe, there was a genuine look of relief on his face

it's a criminal world they are in, lets not forget. certain things and certain strategies must be implemented when you are in dire situations. it is a very darwinist game and i don't think jesse was ever mentally really fit enough to play. to play with monsters, you kinda have to be one. and now walt is the biggest one. and smartest.
 
Please don't use spoiler tags for things that aired last night. The only exception is promo/preview material. Thanks.

Rules are in the OP if you need clarification.
 
Soyongdori said:
Do people even realize that
Walter didn't admit anything to Hank's accusations? He just warned Hank to back the fuck off. Walter didn't imply or accepted that he is Heisenberg
.
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Walt never explicitly said he's Heisenberg, but come on, the way he acted implied the hell out of it.
 
Soyongdori said:
Do people even realize that Walter didn't admit anything to Hank's accusations? He just warned Hank to back the fuck off. Walter didn't imply or accepted that he is Heisenberg.
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"Oh hey Hank how's it going. I noticed you bugged my car and are researching the case on Heisenberg. That book you took may seem like it's me but I can assure to yo it's not. Oh by the way, back the fuck off or else."

Mhmm ok
 
Uncle Ulty said:
Eh, if he were a true monster with no morals he would have just used the Ricin. Im not trying to say Walt is a hero or should deserve credit, but he didn't try to kill Brock straight out.

I am on Team Walt because I want him to go out in a blaze of glory like Tony Montana and to have people forever remember the name Heisenberg as one of the true bad asses and anti-heroes in the history of TV. I could definitely accept an ending where he just goes out like the pathetic loser he appears to be in the flash forwards, but I trust Vince Gilligan and crew to come up with something worthy of the series either way.
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Batigol said:
It would be a boring end to the show if he just went away for life, imo.

I want him to go down all guns blazing. Just go completely off the rails
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Going out in a 'blaze of glory' is fine, it's still a punishment.

I also don't care if Walt survives, but if he does survive, it makes no sense he can be free. He'd have to be in jail. No one is going to provide him cover after the crimes he has committed. It's just not realistic he'd be able to hide out for long, considering he has no friends anymore (not a true spoiler ->
"...and he lived happily ever after with Lydia. The end."
) basically.

As long as one of these types of scenarios play out - a logical one borne from consistency of writing - and Walt also suffers in the form of losing his family (since that too is the only thing that makes sense), then the show did its job.

KMD said:
I'm not even debating anything. All I said was I thought you were making a troll post to get the Walt is terrible conversation to come up, which it did and so, hunch confirmed with the way you've replied.
Click to expand...

Is that how it works? You say a statement was meant to cause something, then YOU yourself who made that claim go ahead and engage me in debate about that very subject, and then you say "ha ha I was right?" Is that how this works? Holy christ lol
 
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