Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 - The Final Eight Episodes - Sundays on AMC

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Salmonax said:
But it wouldn't pose anywhere near the dilemma of killing Jesse and Hank, both of whom he really cares about.
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He *needs* Jesse. That's not the same as caring for him. Normal people do not manipulate people they care about to the degree that Walt has manipulated Jesse. That's not caring, it's basically borderline behaviour.

Nothing in the show to date has convinced me that Walt cares about anyone but himself. Plenty has convinced me that he needs validation from and control over other people to be happy. It's remotely possible he once did care for people, before the show started, but his interactions with Gretchen suggest that even that's unlikely.

The show constantly goes out of its way to show how Walt's words, actions, and facial expressions are extremely tailored to manipulate whoever he's talking to. I don't know why anyone trusts anything they see him do or hear him say to validate something as significant as 'caring' for Jesse.
 
FantasticMrFoxdie said:
Probably already posted, but badass nonetheless:
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Fascinating.

I was satisfied with the MB episode. It was expected, but I still enjoyed the watch. Yeah it's not quite as spectacular as the old stuff, but the show's also been on for an entire decade, way more than any cable program has any right to and especially for a show that at its heart pretty much relies on one upping itself in explosions and flair.
 
Holly will be the one to kill Walt. WTF Booom!

I don't see Hank doing it. Even though Future Walt was carrying some firepower, he doesn't seem to be in a state of possibly killing someone like Hank or Jesse. I could see him finally turning himself in to Hank.

Jesse can very well kill Future Walt. This guy loved Walt and was betrayed, abused, and manipulated by his father figure. He's spiraled before. He can definitely spiral again to killing Walt, even if Future Walt is at peace.

Skyler/Junior/Marie: If Walt somehow got any of his family members killed, I can see one of them killing him.

Lydia: It's not profitable for her to put a hit on Walt. She was willing to whack everyone on that list in fear they will give her up to the authorities. She doesn't have to worry about this from Walt. She just needs him to cook or give tutorials so she can continue operations.

So yeah, he dies either to his own family, or to committing suicide with the ricin, or he doesn't die and turns himself in, or fakes his own death with the ricin, wakes up somewhere in a bed with his fedora and shades table side, puts on the fedora, then puts on the shades as the camera is a close up of his face, he smirks, queue thump sound and credits!
 
maharg said:
The show constantly goes out of its way to show how Walt's words, actions, and facial expressions are extremely tailored to manipulate whoever he's talking to. I don't know why anyone trusts anything they see him do or hear him say to validate something as significant as 'caring' for Jesse.
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A fair distinction. His conversation about Mike certainly drove that home. On the other hand, Jesse is an enormously unpredictable loose end that Walt continually lets slide. I don't know if that's "caring," but it's also short of coldly calculating.
 
maharg said:
It's remotely possible he once did care for people, before the show started, but his interactions with Gretchen suggest that even that's unlikely.
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We really need to find out exactly what made walt leave her on the altar. I feel like that's gonna be one of the show's last key revelations, and I'd be willing to bet money it'll be in a flashback in the cold open of the last episode.
 
rhfb said:
Myth buster special wasn't that great. Don't know what I expected though, they have been on a decline for years.
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Yeah it was pretty lame. This was one of the first episodes I seen in a long time too. Didn't help every commercial break we got a ad for some lame Amish show.
 
man one of my favorite parts of blood money was hank walking out of the shitter and looking at *that thing* on the counter and i was like "what the fuck is that thing" and then i realized it was purple and i said "oh it's marie's purse."
 
did you know that in order to signify the passing of time, the show sometimes speeds up footage of exterior locations? it's those things you see in between people talking sometimes.
 
maharg said:
He *needs* Jesse. That's not the same as caring for him. Normal people do not manipulate people they care about to the degree that Walt has manipulated Jesse. That's not caring, it's basically borderline behaviour.

Nothing in the show to date has convinced me that Walt cares about anyone but himself. Plenty has convinced me that he needs validation from and control over other people to be happy. It's remotely possible he once did care for people, before the show started, but his interactions with Gretchen suggest that even that's unlikely.

The show constantly goes out of its way to show how Walt's words, actions, and facial expressions are extremely tailored to manipulate whoever he's talking to. I don't know why anyone trusts anything they see him do or hear him say to validate something as significant as 'caring' for Jesse.
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I think that's not giving Walt's character enough credit. Don't get me wrong, he's a horrible person, even to those he loves, but you can still be a horrible person while caring about someone.

True, he manipulates Jesse, but he also goes out of his way to comfort him at really no benefit to himself. The scene where he finds him after the Jane incident when he's crying himself away comes to mind. And keep in mind that the entire fallout comes from the fact that Walt defended Jesse when he went after the two drugdealers who killed that kid.

Frankly, there were a LOT of times where Walt simply cutting Jesse off would have been beneficial to him. I also think he cares about his family as well. Yeah, you could argue that a lot of it, like buying Jr. a mustang and stuff is just another ego trip for him, but that seems reaching to me. There are self benefits to just about any act a person takes, even if it's just mental, and if that invalidates the otherwise selfless action, then you can't have an altruistic act.
 
xtrasauce said:
You are underestimating the bond between Walt and Jesse. They went through a lot together. And you can just tell that Walt cares about Jesse, through their interactions the past two or three seasons. I guarantee Walt cannot kill Jesse without even thinking about it.
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He wouldn't kill Jesse because Jesse is one of his "trophies."

Throughout the show, Walt has kept things (objects, places, habits) that he doesn't need to, either out of pride or something else entirely: The car wash (could've chosen any other place to launder money, just happened to choose the place he was bossed around in), the bread-crust cutting, the doll eye, Etc. Jesse is one of those trophies.

Walt has done a lot to show he doesn't care about Jesse so much as he cares about having Jesse trust him and be on his side. He's probably convinced himself he cares about Jesse though, just like he's convinced himself everything he's done has been for the good of his family.
 
blame space said:
did you know that in order to signify the passing of time, the show sometimes speeds up footage of exterior locations? it's those things you see in between people talking sometimes.
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Holy shit I just saw like 3 juniors appear on your avatar in real time I'm not making this up
 
maharg said:
He *needs* Jesse. That's not the same as caring for him. Normal people do not manipulate people they care about to the degree that Walt has manipulated Jesse. That's not caring, it's basically borderline behaviour.

Nothing in the show to date has convinced me that Walt cares about anyone but himself. Plenty has convinced me that he needs validation from and control over other people to be happy. It's remotely possible he once did care for people, before the show started, but his interactions with Gretchen suggest that even that's unlikely.

The show constantly goes out of its way to show how Walt's words, actions, and facial expressions are extremely tailored to manipulate whoever he's talking to. I don't know why anyone trusts anything they see him do or hear him say to validate something as significant as 'caring' for Jesse.
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I don't think this is a fair assessment considering the events of Season 3. You have to remember that at that point, Walt could have let Jesse get killed by the two dealers, and everything in his life would have been much easier from that point forward. In fact, it's likely that letting Jesse die would have prevented all the bad things that happen from that point onward.

Instead, Walt risks his own life to save Jesse. Not only does he put himself in danger of being gunned down by the dealers, but he puts himself on Gus's hit list to do it.

It can't be overstated how much easier life would have been for Walt if he hadn't done that. He could have continued cooking in peace, completely removed from the violent elements of the drug trade, and at a later date he could have retired peacefully with millions of dollars. Instead he started a spiral of events from which there was no returning, and it all started by saving Jesse's life.
 
blame space said:
did you know that in order to signify the passing of time, the show sometimes speeds up footage of exterior locations? it's those things you see in between people talking sometimes.
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I notice that on older sitcoms from time to time. Unless you mean time-lapsed photography.

A disproportionate number of shows and movies also hose down the streets on exteriors to make the shot look more interesting and better-lit. Wait, what were we talking about?
 
blame space said:
did you know that in order to signify the passing of time, the show sometimes speeds up footage of exterior locations? it's those things you see in between people talking sometimes.
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Don't worry blame space, *I* get you.

Verdre said:
I could be wrong, but I don't believe there's any reasonable way to replicate the giant magnet caper. I think it's all but impossible because magnetic field strength drops exponentially the further away you get.
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Man I really wish Mike had killed Lydia. She certainly deserved it.

Edit: oh snap Ami got that ban hammer lol. He needs some time too cool off with all the insults and such. Hopefully he's back before the finale.
 
I think you guys are interpreting why walt saved jesse. He saved him because he felt he had lost control to gus and defying gus made him feel more in control. I dont see how anyone can deny his sociopathy at this point. Everything walt has done in this show has been for the betterment of himself. From denying gretchen's money, going back to cooking after remission, and saving jesse. I do think he might believe that what he has done has been to others benefit.
 
That entire scene between Walt & Jane's dad exists to highlight Walt's love and subsequent concern for Jesse. There's nothing deluded or contrived about either of them hear; they're just two guys talking life in a bar. "Never give up on family". That's Donald's advice to Walt, and to himself clearly. Walt uses this advice immediately and goes back to Jesse's.

And if killing five people and ruining a $15mil-a-year job for someone doesn't prove you care nothing will.
 
Nameless said:
That entire scene between Walt & Jane's dad exists to highlight Walt's love and subsequent concern for Jesse. There's nothing deluded or contrived about either of them hear; they're just two guys talking life in a bar. "Never give up on family". That's Donald's advice to Walt, and to himself clearly.

Besides, if killing 5 people and ruining a $15mil-a-year job for someone doesn't prove you care nothing will.
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yeah I think Walt killing Jesse would devastate him.
 
metalslimer said:
I think you guys are interpreting why walt saved jesse. He saved him because he felt he had lost control to gus and defying gus made him feel more in control. I dont see how anyone can deny his sociopathy at this point. Everything walt has done in this show has been for the betterment of himself. From denying gretchen's money, going back to cooking after remission, and saving jesse. I do think he might believe that what he has done has been to others benefit.
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For this kind of analysis to hold up, you basically have to assume that Walt was always a "bad guy", even in the early seasons. But if he was always bad, then there's no descent. It seems much more logical that Walt did (and still does) have a fair amount of human empathy, compassion, loyalty, etc.

Edit: I mean obviously there were always elements of badness in him (as there are in all of us). What I mean is that your analysis makes him a completely unsympathetic character very early in the story.
 
Jack Remington said:
For this kind of analysis to hold up, you basically have to assume that Walt was always a "bad guy", even in the early seasons. But if he was always bad, then there's no descent. It seems much more logical that Walt did (and still does) have a fair amount of human empathy, compassion, loyalty, etc.
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Walt turned down a life saving donation to join a business that put his whole family in jeopardy. He doesn't seem to have ever been a good guy especially when his need to feel powerful and controlling seemingly ended his relationship with grey matter much earlier.

What I mean is that your analysis makes him a completely unsympathetic character very early in the story.
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Well that's the thing, i think someone can have sociopathic tendencies and still be sympathetic. I mean he has had a terrible life, so you can see how such a life would create someone like walt, but i think since the beginning his needs have come before everyone.
 
Jack Remington said:
For this kind of analysis to hold up, you basically have to assume that Walt was always a "bad guy", even in the early seasons. But if he was always bad, then there's no descent. It seems much more logical that Walt did (and still does) have a fair amount of human empathy, compassion, loyalty, etc.

Edit: I mean obviously there were always elements of badness in him (as there are in all of us). What I mean is that your analysis makes him a completely unsympathetic character very early in the story.
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But that's obviously wrong. There are no absolutes in being bad. There is bad, there is worse, and then there is a trillion times worse. And then there's 10 trillion times worse than that

Walt was always bad. And then he gets more bad. u see how dat works ?
 
metalslimer said:
Walt turned down a life saving donation to join a business that put his whole family in jeopardy. He doesn't seem to have ever been a good guy especially when his need to feel powerful and controlling seemingly ended his relationship with grey matter much earlier.
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Skyler and Marie both agree to keep the source of Hank's rehab coverage from him because they anticipate a similar reaction. Pride doesn't make you inhumane; it's as human as it gets.
 
Gray Matter keeps coming up.

The show is much more interesting if you just accept it as a universal constant that Walt could not take a charity job from Gray Matter. He had his reasons, which haven't been revealed for the most part, but it's quite clear that he would rather be dead than accept charity from them.

If you try to ret-con the Walt from Season 1 as a sociopath, it makes the journey much less compelling, IMO.
 
Nameless said:
Skyler and Marie both agree to keep the source of Hank's rehab coverage from him because they anticipate a similar reaction. Pride doesn't make you inhumane; it's as human as it gets.
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Hank wouldn't have turned to cooking crystal meth because of his pride. He would have sat in that wheelchair forever. That's the difference.


If you try to ret-con the Walt from Season 1 as a sociopath, it makes the journey much less compelling, IMO.
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I think its just as compelling to realize all along what a monster he was. Until i rewatched the show, i thought the same thing.
 
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