Mental Health |OT| Depression & Co.

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I hope we can get some discussion going here about what we might call The Relationship Fallacy. This is the idea that we would be completely fixed if we could just form the one perfect relationship. It’s never stated in these terms by the people actually falling into this trap, but it’s not hard to see from the outside. It’s often expressed in terms of the desire for romantic relationships, but close friendships also come up (as do friendships that people wish they could turn into romantic relationships).

This is overwhelmingly the most common issue bringing new people into the IRC channel and accounts for a good number of posts here in the thread, too. I’m under no illusion that this post is going to immediately help anyone laboring under the relationship fallacy, but I really hope we can have more people chime in and maybe, just maybe, get people to rethink how they are going about the search for meaningful connections.


What makes the relationship fallacy so hard to shake is that, basically, it’s kind of true - for many of us (myself included), relationships are among the most important, fulfilling, affirming, mood-boosting parts of our lives. I’ll own up to my own outsized need to be liked. The problem comes about when 1) we fail to acknowledge how difficult, painful, and draining even the best relationships invariably are at times, and 2) we start thinking that all meaning, validation, and sense of worth, or even our sense of self, will only come from other people.

It seems like a singularly unhelpful cliche, but you need to figure out how to make yourself happy. There are all sorts of reasons, but so far as relationships are concerned, it&#8217;s fundamentally ridiculous to think that anyone is going to like you if not even <i>you</i> like you. You project your sense of self worth and I guarantee that even the saddest, most depressed, even the most empathetic people here are really, really sick of that person they know on Facebook or Twitter who posts nothing but accounts of how miserable they are and how much they hate themselves. It&#8217;s incredibly tiring and it&#8217;s not going to attract anyone to you.

The other issue is that, even if you do find someone who will tell you how pretty/smart/desirable/amazing you are, if you aren&#8217;t happy with yourself, you&#8217;ll never believe it. We overestimate the ability of other people to change how we feel about ourselves. Then again, there are folks who do derive a lot of meaning and validation from intense relationships. The problem here is that, when these relationships end, or fail to provide everything we need, the consequences are catastrophic. It&#8217;s dangerous in general to let another person have complete control over our feelings. I&#8217;m shocked by the number of people from the community who are pining over really awful sounding exes, or who are upset about losing friends who were, when it comes right down to it, emotionally abusive. Stockholm syndrome is not a healthy part of any relationship.

It&#8217;s important to note that relationships really only work when the feelings and actions are reciprocated fairly equally. You&#8217;re never going to sign on to have someone just transfer a bulk shipment of their excess happiness to you. What you&#8217;re really saying is, &#8220;now I need to try to make TWO people happy.&#8221; If you can&#8217;t even make yourself happy, it&#8217;s ludicrous to think that it will somehow help to be responsible for additional people.

As great as relationships are, people who are close to us, by nature of that closeness, have enhanced abilities to hurt us. And disagreements, fights, and misunderstandings inevitably arise in relationships. Great relationships challenge us and make us grow, which is really only fun in retrospect. At the time, it can be a real pain in the ass. We tend to imagine Hollywood, happy-ever-after-style, relationships, not the messier (but potentially more satisfying) human interactions we&#8217;ll actually get. And if you&#8217;re pining away for a magical relationship that will cure your mental health issues, you&#8217;re going to be let down, and probably fuck up, any real relationships you do form.

It all reminds me a lot of the idea of being &#8220;friendzoned,&#8221; which I&#8217;ve come to see for the truly fucked up concept that it is. The issue here is that when we are looking for the supreme relationship that will save us, then every relationship must be that thing. It&#8217;s not enough to have a close female friend, we have to go out (or, at the very least, sleep with each other - or rather, "she needs to sleep with me"). People who are trapped in the relationship fallacy end up doing this fucked up thing where they feel that they are somehow owed something from any relationships they do form. Without meaning to, they end up demanding that people regard them in a certain way (again, often involving romantic feelings), which is just incredibly toxic.


There&#8217;s plenty more to discuss, but I&#8217;ve rambled more than enough already. I&#8217;m starting to compose a part 2 in my head, that will address the inevitable question of how, then, one goes about forming healthy relationships. I hope other people will offer their own advice, as it&#8217;s all going to be somewhat personal and idiosyncratic.
 
Just made an Appt today to talk to someone. That small step alone feels good. I have dealt with feeling mad and sad for almost 30 years. Its time to try some other way to manage these feelings for a change.

The weird thing is that whenever I read anyone elses posts here, I just want to yell and give them a hug and say "Don't worry! It'll get better! Just do this..." but its weird not feeling that way about my own situation, so I can understand.
 
When you say there's no way you can convince your parents to let you receive some kind of treatment, why is that? It's clear you need help and support right now. Don't forget there are always people you can talk to. Professionals or otherwise. Please keep going and don't let that depression win. Depression's a loser. He sucks.

Because, more than likely, they'll try and convince me that I need a bible more than I need any drugs making me look weak and pathetic. My mom especially would try and tell me how people go crazy over meds and how any little mistake could end me. Hell, my parents have called me "weak" for attempting therapy once (even though they themselves initially agreed to it).
 
Been one of those days were I feel like I've been second guessing everything I do. Like, "why did I say that", "why did I do that". Which has been mixed in with slight feelings of social rejection that is probably only happening inside my own head. It's like I need reassurance all the bloody time, so that I don't feel like I'm messing things up for myself in anything I do or try. I know people say you have to "believe in yourself" but I find it really hard to do that, hence this need for reassurance. It's always been that way, even as a kid I didn't feel too positive about any of the things I done, unless I was told I was doing a good job. I guess low self esteem does that to you. Another pathetic post complete, time to sleep.
 
I hope we can get some discussion going here about what we might call The Relationship Fallacy. This is the idea that we would be completely fixed if we could just form the one perfect relationship

When I was younger (in my early 20s to mid 20s, especially), I often fell into this trap, building intense, often codependent relationships with people that usually ended up imploding because they weren't able to give me the validation that I so desperately needed at the time. It was even worse because I would never learn my lesson, even after one person bluntly told me that I needed more than he could give.

Even in my early 30s, I still struggle with filling this hole (as do many with depression and low self-esteem) but I've fucked up enough at this point to where I'm aware of what I need to work on and what pits to dodge. The relationships in my life are a lot stronger for this, too.
 
I just had sex for the first time and couldn't orgasm. I basically limped home with blue balls. So goddamn frustrated right now. Is there an SSRI with lessened sexual side effects? I've heard Welbutrin is good but I don't think I can afford it. I'm on cheap ass Celexa right now.

aaaand I got dumped. It's almost comical at this point.
 
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Past couple weeks in a nutshell. Think I lost my best friend over some bullshit :/
 
When I was younger (in my early 20s to mid 20s, especially), I often fell into this trap, building intense, often codependent relationships with people that usually ended up imploding because they weren't able to give me the validation that I so desperately needed at the time. It was even worse because I would never learn my lesson, even after one person bluntly told me that I needed more than he could give.

Even in my early 30s, I still struggle with filling this hole (as do many with depression and low self-esteem) but I've fucked up enough at this point to where I'm aware of what I need to work on and what pits to dodge. The relationships in my life are a lot stronger for this, too.

Yes, it's close to impossible to adjust your view in this way until you have a really healthy view of yourself.

I got most of the way through my 30s before I got a good enough perspective of myself to really believe this, and live by it. While I still felt I was lacking something, something that might be provided by a relationship, maybe, there was no way in hell I really had a grasp of reality.

I'm now divorced, having been left due to lack of reciprocation, and having had almost no drama, because I viewed myself as complete, flaws and all. Ten years ago (at your age) I would have had an 'OMG he left me!' meltdown.
 
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Past couple weeks in a nutshell. Think I lost my best friend over some bullshit :/
Funny, I have an animation idea that is similar to that gif. I'd love to make it, but I really need to do a lot of brushing up on a lot of skills. I may end up having to take clips and images from other movies for a lot of it.

I'm sorry about your friend man. Hopefully you two can patch things up, especially if it was over something meaningless. :/
 
I am serious. If this was a parallel universe and I was straight I would be married and have kids by now.
While being straight carries a lot of privileges, it is not an instant "win" at relationships, and just putting it out there: other members can be (and are) offended by the implication. Relationships are HARD no matter your orientation. As is attracting other people whom you are interested in. I know you most likely won't believe me, so this post is more for those who might be reading and were made to feel worse by what the post was implying.
 
Funny, I have an animation idea that is similar to that gif. I'd love to make it, but I really need to do a lot of brushing up on a lot of skills. I may end up having to take clips and images from other movies for a lot of it.

I'm sorry about your friend man. Hopefully you two can patch things up, especially if it was over something meaningless. :/
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:(
 
Holy fuck I've been hit with brutal self-loathing over the past few days. My depression and mood swings generally don't weigh TOO heavily on self-image but lately I feel worse about myself than I have in years. I hate myself. I wish I were more normal. Someone who could just enjoy things for what they are instead of fret about the dumbest shit.

What's extra bizarre about it is that I'm completely aware of how insane and irrational my feelings are. But, obviously, I can't just make them go away. So I'm sitting here looking attentively at this thing that's totally breaking me down.

It's nuts. I went on a date and the emotional side of my mind is convinced against all logic that she hated it and was just humoring me. Which makes no sense and I know isn't true.

I'm so out of my mind that I asked. On the one hand it was reassuring...on the other, I feel like even more of a freaking loser needing that sort of validation.

Lord what a conundrum.

Fuck.
 
While being straight carries a lot of privileges, it is not an instant "win" at relationships, and just putting it out there: other members can be (and are) offended by the implication. Relationships are HARD no matter your orientation. As is attracting other people whom you are interested in. I know you most likely won't believe me, so this post is more for those who might be reading and were made to feel worse by what the post was implying.
From personal experience and being straight man, I can back up what you said. For me, it seems nigh impossible to attract the opposite sex for anything other than friendship.
 
It seems like a singularly unhelpful cliche, but you need to figure out how to make yourself happy.

So much this.

If you believe that finding someone will fix all of your problems, it won't. I promise. I've been there. You might be happy for a few days, or weeks, and think everyone else was wrong. But then the same old stuff will happen, but ANOTHER PERSON'S PROBLEMS will be added to yours. That's twice the problems. You can't fix your problems by adding a whole other person's problems to yours. And everyone has problems. Everyone. Even the people that don't seem like they do, they do.

So don't fall for the relationship fallacy, please. It's fine to want a relationship. Everyone does! It's human nature. But if you decide that you will never be happy until you are in a relationship, you will never be happy because it's not something that works. No one is superman, and no one can fix you. You can fix you, with support from people yes, but you can't rely entirely on a fictional person to magically make stuff better, ya know? Because being in a relationship means you have to be there for each other, not just have it lopsided.

Disclaimer: Please don't use this post to hurt yourselves, cause that would break me.
 
I keep having these freaky ass dreams where my teeth randomly become loose and then come out before too long. It's reoccurring and I don't know what the fuck is up with it. I get scared shitless in my dream, and then when I wake up, I'm usually frantically checking to see if my teeth are still there. Really starting to become disturbing with how often it occurs.

"I'm not gay." - Bagels, 2012-2013

FTFY.
 
I'm giggling because this post is helpful.

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I keep having these freaky ass dreams where my teeth randomly become loose and then come out before too long. It's reoccurring and I don't know what the fuck is up with it. I get scared shitless in my dream, and then when I wake up, I'm usually frantically checking to see if my teeth are still there. Really starting to become disturbing with how often it occurs.

Dude I have those dreams often, lately. Usually my teeth are breaking, and fall apart. It's horrid.
 
After 4 weeks of having a cracked rib + bruises (from stupid suicide attempt) healed up. I managed to get back into the gym.

Endorphins combined with nearing the end of the 2nd week of beginning my meds are having a good effect.

The voice in my head telling me how worthless I am is now just sitting at a table, slouching on his right hand, and muttering at me instead of standing on the table and yelling at me :)
 
Dude I have those dreams often, lately. Usually my teeth are breaking, and fall apart. It's horrid.

Oh God YES. It's so messed up because in my dream I can feel everything, all the pain and what-not. One time my teeth just sort of ground together and all shattered. Usually now my canine teeth become loose and I grind my teeth in an attempt to sort pop them back in (it doesn't work), and before too long one or all of them fall out. I don't believe in the "Dreams are your subconscious/body telling you things" but with the amount of times I've gotten these dreams in the past month, I may just look into it. I always wake up feeling shaky and spent after those dreams.
 
Hi guys.

It's 6 in the morning and I've been having some trouble sleeping for the past year or so, more brutal than I've ever had really. I slept from 6am to 9pm yesterday and I'm about to tidy the room but it's hard to find the motivation.

I've recently gone through therapy for the first time and it kinda helped, looking at how I was prior to it I suppose it really helped. I dropped out of my second year of University in January because an uncontrollable wave of ennui and pain propped up, I couldn't sleep, eat; I couldn't even be honest to people. I've had thoughts of killing myself since I was 6, same with the sleep but it comes and goes - never acted on it until February.

I think I've made strides since then and grown accustom to life after the attempt, silently. I still ache from time to time, some days are great, most I wish I could have back but I'm no longer considering so much of the pain and woes of the world and my efforts to be happy seem to multiply. But reading what you just said Fiction makes an incredible amount of sense. I know it's true. But I can't shake someone from my mind, the only person who genuinely made me happy - who is now the source of much grief, our break up years back was already poison for us both but it seems nearly impossible to forget her. Everyday I think of her and it wounds me still.

Yet I know it's a burden and painful and all that yet I feel uncomfortably shackled to it. She's the reason why I didn't kill myself the last time as I know because of her history it probably would have destroyed her to have another pass on that way. Yet here I am, not really living for myself. And whenever the sadness creeps all I really have to consider, besides her, and all the wrongs committed by myself or others is what is there to life after you've finally given it up?

I feel no closure in sight.

There's not really a point to this post I suppose, it's just nice to share at times.
 
"I'm not gay." - Bagels, 2013

I keep having these freaky ass dreams where my teeth randomly become loose and then come out before too long. It's reoccurring and I don't know what the fuck is up with it. I get scared shitless in my dream, and then when I wake up, I'm usually frantically checking to see if my teeth are still there. Really starting to become disturbing with how often it occurs.



FTFY.

DAMNIT WINDAM. I saw Cooper's post and was thinking "I have to quote this and fix it to 2012-13", then scrolled and saw your post. Not cool dude. Not cool. Stealing my thunder!

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Dude I have those dreams often, lately. Usually my teeth are breaking, and fall apart. It's horrid.

As for those dreams... Uh... I don't know how to break this to you guys (and gals), but "losing teeth" dreams are fairly common, actually. They're so common, even Freud declared them one of the four most common kinds of dreams. (Next to flying, being naked and falling) And don't read anything into them, really. The classic interpretation is that you're struggling with change in your life (e.g. you lose your baby-teeth when you mature. Hence dreams of losing teeth = change occuring in your life), but... dream-interpretation isn't exactly science.
 
I keep having these freaky ass dreams where my teeth randomly become loose and then come out before too long. It's reoccurring and I don't know what the fuck is up with it. I get scared shitless in my dream, and then when I wake up, I'm usually frantically checking to see if my teeth are still there. Really starting to become disturbing with how often it occurs.

I've heard that dreams about your teeth falling out or being damaged are subliminal dream interpretations of you worrying about money.

Been worried about cash or finances lately?
 
I've heard that dreams about your teeth falling out or being damaged are subliminal dream interpretations of you worrying about money.

Been worried about cash or finances lately?

Yep, I have I'm not one to normally believe in superstitions but I have been. If the dreams are as common as Smiley, er-Freud claimed, then it doesn't really matter, but I've been concerned about money lately.
 
I think everybody has those teeth dreams. And those dreams where you're back in school and failing/lost/forgetting to attend a class/etc. Textbook anxiety.

The third most common recurring dream for me is watching planes crash.
 
Just submitted a piece for a spot as a writer on a small movie blog site. Wish me luck guys.

And to add my own bit to the Dep-Gaf song posting, "Don't Stop Me Now" by Queen always puts me in a good mood. In uni, I listened to it every morning on my way to class. So high energy and fun and strangely motivating. Singing the outright ridiculous lyrics always makes me feel good about myself. I mean, how can you not feel good when you're a "shooting star, leaping through the sky like a tiger?"

I hope we can get some discussion going here about what we might call The Relationship Fallacy. This is the idea that we would be completely fixed if we could just form the one perfect relationship. It&#8217;s never stated in these terms by the people actually falling into this trap, but it&#8217;s not hard to see from the outside. It&#8217;s often expressed in terms of the desire for romantic relationships, but close friendships also come up (as do friendships that people wish they could turn into romantic relationships).

This is overwhelmingly the most common issue bringing new people into the IRC channel and accounts for a good number of posts here in the thread, too. I&#8217;m under no illusion that this post is going to immediately help anyone laboring under the relationship fallacy, but I really hope we can have more people chime in and maybe, just maybe, get people to rethink how they are going about the search for meaningful connections.


What makes the relationship fallacy so hard to shake is that, basically, it&#8217;s kind of true - for many of us (myself included), relationships are among the most important, fulfilling, affirming, mood-boosting parts of our lives. I&#8217;ll own up to my own outsized need to be liked. The problem comes about when 1) we fail to acknowledge how difficult, painful, and draining even the best relationships invariably are at times, and 2) we start thinking that all meaning, validation, and sense of worth, or even our sense of self, will only come from other people.

It seems like a singularly unhelpful cliche, but you need to figure out how to make yourself happy. There are all sorts of reasons, but so far as relationships are concerned, it&#8217;s fundamentally ridiculous to think that anyone is going to like you if not even <i>you</i> like you. You project your sense of self worth and I guarantee that even the saddest, most depressed, even the most empathetic people here are really, really sick of that person they know on Facebook or Twitter who posts nothing but accounts of how miserable they are and how much they hate themselves. It&#8217;s incredibly tiring and it&#8217;s not going to attract anyone to you.

The other issue is that, even if you do find someone who will tell you how pretty/smart/desirable/amazing you are, if you aren&#8217;t happy with yourself, you&#8217;ll never believe it. We overestimate the ability of other people to change how we feel about ourselves. Then again, there are folks who do derive a lot of meaning and validation from intense relationships. The problem here is that, when these relationships end, or fail to provide everything we need, the consequences are catastrophic. It&#8217;s dangerous in general to let another person have complete control over our feelings. I&#8217;m shocked by the number of people from the community who are pining over really awful sounding exes, or who are upset about losing friends who were, when it comes right down to it, emotionally abusive. Stockholm syndrome is not a healthy part of any relationship.

It&#8217;s important to note that relationships really only work when the feelings and actions are reciprocated fairly equally. You&#8217;re never going to sign on to have someone just transfer a bulk shipment of their excess happiness to you. What you&#8217;re really saying is, &#8220;now I need to try to make TWO people happy.&#8221; If you can&#8217;t even make yourself happy, it&#8217;s ludicrous to think that it will somehow help to be responsible for additional people.

As great as relationships are, people who are close to us, by nature of that closeness, have enhanced abilities to hurt us. And disagreements, fights, and misunderstandings inevitably arise in relationships. Great relationships challenge us and make us grow, which is really only fun in retrospect. At the time, it can be a real pain in the ass. We tend to imagine Hollywood, happy-ever-after-style, relationships, not the messier (but potentially more satisfying) human interactions we&#8217;ll actually get. And if you&#8217;re pining away for a magical relationship that will cure your mental health issues, you&#8217;re going to be let down, and probably fuck up, any real relationships you do form.

It all reminds me a lot of the idea of being &#8220;friendzoned,&#8221; which I&#8217;ve come to see for the truly fucked up concept that it is. The issue here is that when we are looking for the supreme relationship that will save us, then every relationship must be that thing. It&#8217;s not enough to have a close female friend, we have to go out (or, at the very least, sleep with each other - or rather, "she needs to sleep with me"). People who are trapped in the relationship fallacy end up doing this fucked up thing where they feel that they are somehow owed something from any relationships they do form. Without meaning to, they end up demanding that people regard them in a certain way (again, often involving romantic feelings), which is just incredibly toxic.


There&#8217;s plenty more to discuss, but I&#8217;ve rambled more than enough already. I&#8217;m starting to compose a part 2 in my head, that will address the inevitable question of how, then, one goes about forming healthy relationships. I hope other people will offer their own advice, as it&#8217;s all going to be somewhat personal and idiosyncratic.
So much truth here.

When I was younger, I went to my mother, distressed because I was certain no girl could ever like me. She looked at me and said, "And what if they did? Do you really think some young lady could handle being with you when you don't even love yourself?" Rather than making me sad as I thought it might, that bit of real talk made me realize how selfish it was that I was obsessed with finding a girl just so she could help me fix myself.

Loving yourself really is the key, but it's definitely one of those "easier said than done" deals. Especially when it feels like the whole world is telling you that there is something wrong with you. Then, it seems only natural to seek out someone, anyone, who makes you feel that you aren't such an awful being. It's something I know I still struggle with, and I'm still trying to find healthy ways to open up that are more about building connections with people and less about seeking validation.
 
Best of luck ReiGun! Don't Stop Me Now is indeed a great aural delicacy for the masses.

As for me I started a music blog I had thought about doing for a while. As for music I'm listening to one of my all time favorites, it's a long journey, but it always hits me hard. UNKLE - Lonely Soul I was shocked and disappointed it was used to market that one Assassin's Creed game. :/
 
I'm freaking out and I don't know what to do. My psychologist wanted me to try a more long term anxiety medication so I was referred to a psychiatrist. She prescribed me Lexapro and warned that it might cause trouble reaching orgasm and to let her know if I experience that.

One week into the med, I noticed today that I almost couldn't finish masturbating. Not only that, my dick is way less sensitive than it used to be. As I post this it feels like my dick is coming off a light anesthesia. I'm reading online that this can be long term or even permanent even if I fucking quit the drug. Now I'm scared that I've ruined my ability to have sex and I just went full dosage this evening. Even my feet are a little numb when they used to be quite ticklish.

I'm calling my doctor tomorrow about my symptoms and what to do. She didn't tell me it could be this serious and I'd rather be anxious than have a numb whisky dick my whole life. Anyone else experience sexual dysfunction due to SSRIs or anti depressants?
 
I'm freaking out and I don't know what to do. My psychologist wanted me to try a more long term anxiety medication so I was referred to a psychiatrist. She prescribed me Lexapro and warned that it might cause trouble reaching orgasm and to let her know if I experience that.

One week into the med, I noticed today that I almost couldn't finish masturbating. Not only that, my dick is way less sensitive than it used to be. I'm reading online that this can be long term or even permanent even if I fucking quit the drug. Now I'm scared that I've ruined my ability to have sex and I just went full dosage this evening.

I'm calling my doctor tomorrow about my symptoms and what to do. She didn't tell me it could be this serious and I'd rather be anxious than have a numb whisky dick my whole life. Anyone else experience sexual dysfunction due to SSRIs or anti depressants?

The odds of it being permanent, or even lasting much beyond the period you're on the drug (and there are things you can do to counteract it if the drug is helpful in other ways), are vanishingly small. Reading up on this stuff online is a great way to let crazy people scare the crap out of you. Sexual dysfunction is unfortunately common with SSRIs. Some drugs will affect you worse than others, but there's no way to know what will happen until you try them. Try not to freak out about any changes being permanent. That's not really a huge concern.
 
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