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[JordanN]

The 360 even had tessellation (and I think Cell could manage it too). They just all the same stuff more efficiently.

I don't think the tessellation in 360 can really be called the same as the one in PS4/XBO.

I assume the practical purposes of it are going to be much more widespread. Oceans, characters and objects will all be tessellated or use displacement maps on the fly thanks to the hull and domain shader.

And I'm not even talking about using those shaders to do stuff beyond polycount. Something like the fermi hair simulation comes to mind.

Edit: Tessellation under DirectX11 is programmable whereas older ones are fixed. That's actually quite a difference.

 

[Rushersauce]

Edit: Already taken care of, it seems.

Yep, I really thought that. My mind is really playing tricks on me.

 

[Apophis2036]

Dude, did you really just implied that comparing two cart-racing games, and two 4-player 'all-stars' fighting games is as ridiculous as comparing a comic-inspired action arcade game to a 'AAA' FPS on a console we all agree is - in theory - many times more powerful? WTF! As if, this thread wasn't derailed enough, at which point did this further derailment even looked like 'valid reasoning?' I mean...guy, damn!

Edit: On that note, I think I'll just avoid posting in this thread until it gets back on track. This sh!t is ridiculous.

I was actually referring to the difference in budgets, LBP Karting will have had no where near the budget of MK8, same for All Stars compared to Smash U imo. They were also not done by developers known for pushing visuals / performance.

I have often wondered why Sony don't put a few of their big developers and a nice budget into creating a 3D platformer, Karting game and fighter to dethrone Mario, MK and Smash. It would end a lot of peoples interest in Nintendo if you could buy better experiences on a PS, I guess it's much easier said than done though.

 

[Apophis2036]

You do realize that in spite of choosing to make Nintendo games, Shin'en is known for helping other companies optimize their engines when consulted right? Those guys are old school, with thick roots in 80's PC gaming but have stayed on the cutting edge as far as knowledge goes. It's not only unfair, but rather silly to discount their opinions when it comes to gaming tech.

I didn't know that so I apologize for the ignorant remarks I made about them. I guess the 'several generations' statement is still very vague.

 

[The_Lump]

I don't need proof, they have never worked on PS360 as far as I know so how would they know how WiiU's GPU compares to PS360's GPU's ?.

If that statement came from Ubisoft or the like I would take it seriously and actually be impressed.

Just beacuse Shin'en (the company) hasn't made a 360 game, that doesn't mean Shin'en (the collection of very experienced and talented developers) have no idea about 360 hardware. Hell, some of them have very likely developed for it elsewhere (developers move around....alot)


Edit: Plus, what ArchangelWest mentioned

 

[Apophis2036]

Not that many would agree with me, but I don't think that there is or will be a massive leap with PS4/Xbox one, let alone one with Wii U. Games look noticeably better, but not all that much in most cases because games already look very good on PS360. From here on out, for the foreseeable future at least, 'looking better' will consist of how many enemies on screen at once, how many effects used at once, and modern GPU features being used in general.

Games look better, but to the average Joe, there is no leap. Especially not one worth $300/$400/$500 respectively.

Of course to the average Joe they don't look much different, show Killzone Shadow Fall and Infamous Second Son to most casual gamers and I bet a lot of them would think they were just really nice looking PS3 games.

We are not the average Joe though, we are enthusiasts who spend time posting on a dedicated gaming forum about a GPU lol !.

PS4 games look like a massive leap to me over PS3 games, they genuinely look like a 'generational leap' whereas WiiU games just look like PS360 games with pretty DOF, some nicer fire effects and a more stable 30 or 60 frame rate.

WiiU is definitely a power leap over PS360, I just have a differing opinion of how much the leap is compared to a few people in this thread. Believe me no one wanted NIntendo to make a powerful console more than me...

 

[Rushersauce]

I don't need proof, they have never worked on PS360 as far as I know so how would they know how WiiU's GPU compares to PS360's GPU's ?.

If that statement came from Ubisoft or the like I would take it seriously and actually be impressed.

Shin'en is enough proof for me to believe that, they actually work with the hardware, unlike you .

 

[jeffers]

So now Halo, Gears and Uncharted aren't impressive because they don't run at 60fps ?... wow, just wow.

he didnt say they werent impressive.... he said bayo2 etc is 60fps and to remember that, aka you could have it at 30fps and look even better...

This thread really is unreal, if you post in here and say anything other than 'WiiU games don't look impressive because of small budgets / unfinished dev kits / unfinished dev tools / third parties dont care ect, ect' you are swarmed by the same four or five people who still care enough to post.

just because you dont like reasoning doesnt make it go away. factor it in. you also keep repeating the same stuff, and people before you, so of course the replies are repeated - its all pretty subjective.

Instead of swarming on people who dare to have a different opinion to this why don't you ask yourself why PS360 games run at a lower resolution and framerate on WiiU than 8 year old hardware ?.
Why Wii up ports like MH3U can only hit 45fps max while running at 1080p ?.
Why several companies refuse to call the WiiU a next gen system ?.
Why several publishers have dropped support because the consoles hardware is not powerful enough to support the latest engines (Frostbite 3) ?.
Why the big Winter 3D Mario is a 3DS up port in all but name ?.
Why Retro are making a 2D platformer that could have ran on Wii instead of an impressive looking tech showcase for the system ?.
WiiU was NEVER intended to be anything more than a tiny upgrade to PS360 while adding the Tablet controller for 'innovation' IMO and nothing show for the console so far has done anything to change my view.

dont see how this really helps tbh. 3d mario actually looks pretty good and not an upport - if you cant see past stylisation then ehh.. Retro are making a sequel to an AMAZING 2d platformer that sold MUCH better than metroid prime 3 etc. nintendo are trying to make money. Frostbite probably wasnt deemed worth the investment to get running - financial decision (this still implies a challenge btw, since im saying requires a fair whack of time to get it on there in some regard).

but seriously this is about the gpu so dunno why you are still on about these things, other people are allowed to disagree with you and have different viewpoints.

with this im gonna stop posting again, as im really not contributing either

WiiU is definitely a power leap over PS360, I just have a differing opinion of how much the leap is compared to a few people in this thread. Believe me no one wanted NIntendo to make a powerful console more than me...

seriously name the few that say its a huuuuge leap. krizzx is quite enthusiastic but we all admit its not huge, but you seem to be calling it tiny/practically nothing. did say a few pages back to put it on an arbitrary number line

 

[The_Lump]

So now Halo, Gears and Uncharted aren't impressive because they don't run at 60fps ?... wow, just wow.

This thread really is unreal, if you post in here and say anything other than 'WiiU games don't look impressive because of small budgets / unfinished dev kits / unfinished dev tools / third parties dont care ect, ect' you are swarmed by the same four or five people who still care enough to post.

Instead of swarming on people who dare to have a different opinion to this why don't you ask yourself why PS360 games run at a lower resolution and framerate on WiiU than 8 year old hardware ?.

Why Wii up ports like MH3U can only hit 45fps max while running at 1080p ?.

Why several companies refuse to call the WiiU a next gen system ?.

Why several publishers have dropped support because the consoles hardware is not powerful enough to support the latest engines (Frostbite 3) ?.

Why the big Winter 3D Mario is a 3DS up port in all but name ?.

Why Retro are making a 2D platformer that could have ran on Wii instead of an impressive looking tech showcase for the system ?.

WiiU was NEVER intended to be anything more than a tiny upgrade to PS360 while adding the Tablet controller for 'innovation' IMO and nothing show for the console so far has done anything to change my view.

It's a forum; if you post your opinion, people will post theirs. That's sort of how it works. The key is to get some useful discussion out of it, and avoid just repeating your own pov without taking other evidence/opinions on board. The "same 4 or 5 people" you keep arguing with also have valid points too, I imagine. Instead of moaning that they're challenging you, just try and convince them otherwise with your own informed information.

Re: bold part for now....but wut? Do you know what an up-port is? The name is the only thing relating if to a 3DS game, imo.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

So now Halo, Gears and Uncharted aren't impressive because they don't run at 60fps ?... wow, just wow.

This thread really is unreal, if you post in here and say anything other than 'WiiU games don't look impressive because of small budgets / unfinished dev kits / unfinished dev tools / third parties dont care ect, ect' you are swarmed by the same four or five people who still care enough to post.

Instead of swarming on people who dare to have a different opinion to this why don't you ask yourself why PS360 games run at a lower resolution and framerate on WiiU than 8 year old hardware ?.

Why Wii up ports like MH3U can only hit 45fps max while running at 1080p ?.

Why several companies refuse to call the WiiU a next gen system ?.

Why several publishers have dropped support because the consoles hardware is not powerful enough to support the latest engines (Frostbite 3) ?.

Why the big Winter 3D Mario is a 3DS up port in all but name ?.

Why Retro are making a 2D platformer that could have ran on Wii instead of an impressive looking tech showcase for the system ?.

WiiU was NEVER intended to be anything more than a tiny upgrade to PS360 while adding the Tablet controller for 'innovation' IMO and nothing show for the console so far has done anything to change my view.

I'm not saying they had to, but its obvious that those games were impressive, but it also obvious they cut corners to achieve the end result.

 

[megabytecr]

So now Halo, Gears and Uncharted aren't impressive because they don't run at 60fps ?... wow, just wow.

This thread really is unreal, if you post in here and say anything other than 'WiiU games don't look impressive because of small budgets / unfinished dev kits / unfinished dev tools / third parties dont care ect, ect' you are swarmed by the same four or five people who still care enough to post.

Instead of swarming on people who dare to have a different opinion to this why don't you ask yourself why PS360 games run at a lower resolution and framerate on WiiU than 8 year old hardware ?.

Why Wii up ports like MH3U can only hit 45fps max while running at 1080p ?.

Why several companies refuse to call the WiiU a next gen system ?.

Why several publishers have dropped support because the consoles hardware is not powerful enough to support the latest engines (Frostbite 3) ?.

Why the big Winter 3D Mario is a 3DS up port in all but name ?.

Why Retro are making a 2D platformer that could have ran on Wii instead of an impressive looking tech showcase for the system ?.

WiiU was NEVER intended to be anything more than a tiny upgrade to PS360 while adding the Tablet controller for 'innovation' IMO and nothing show for the console so far has done anything to change my view.

Man I think you threw it out of the ballpark, but then it is your opinion. Many have stated their points and you don't seem to be convinced so just let it go.

I will just post my summary of why I think the Wii U punches above PS360. My guess is about 2x-3x from the little we know.

-Most games are running 720p60 - I listed some games a few posts back
-GPU has enhanced shading capabilities and what Shinen guys said
-System has more RAM
-Iwata and Nintendo HW guy said console was built to be memory efficient
-NSFMWU was quickly built into superior console version, they nevertheless took the time to check out the system's strengths, also Trine 2.

Regarding Frostbite and 3rd parties that has been discussed to death by other people in here, you don't seem to even analyze what others said, so ok more power to you, you can disagree I will just leave it at that and also stop posting.

 

[Apophis2036]

I think every one has posted their view numerous times, I don't see how me posting mine numerous times is any different apart from the fact that it disagrees with most of you.

Anyway I don't wish ill will towards any of you, it's just a difference of opinions, some of your opinions are much more valid than mine because of your tech knowledge and that is fine.

I love my WiiU, it's everything I thought it would be after we found out the basic specs and I'm sure there will be many impressive looking Nintendo game released for it, I just don't think it will ever wow people (esp the tech minded) more than the average PS360 game.

I really do hope that when it comes time for the next Nintendo console they start from scratch though and go with an x86 based system as it will be the industry standard and will help them get third party support and port parity.

The stuff the poster (sorry can't recall your name) was saying yesterday about this architecture being the future of Nintendo for the next 10 years made me die a little inside if it turns out to be true .

Edit -

Posters name was z0m3le, how terrible of me to forget as I've enjoyed reading your posts on here a lot .

 

[GameGuru59]

And I'm not even talking about using those shaders to do stuff beyond polycount. Something like the fermi hair simulation comes to mind.

Edit: Tessellation under DirectX11 is programmable whereas older ones are fixed. That's actually quite a difference.

Don't take my word for it, take John Carmack's... but I don't think tessellation is going to be big for awhile. For one thing, when you render polygons below the pixel size the GPU is rasterizing to, polygons become more difficult to render (with any image, its easier for a GPU to grow it than shrink it). John Carmack himself states that himself in a youtube interview that I won't bother looking up.

That hair simulation is exactly the type of thing (rendering individual hairs and such) that would break a GPU that has to do things other than spend all its time drawing hair. Basically with tessellation you're looking at improving environment, cloth, and maybe limited hair (anime bangs type) LOD improvements. Furthermore, to use tessellation effectively (and not just sporadically), your engine has to be built for it. Its not something you can just bolt on. The system needs to know the what, when, and where to do the tessellating. Basically (unless they're in UE4), there aren't many tools around to help with that. Its gonna be awhile before we see robust tessellation. We'll see it here and there early on though.

Also, the Wii U's GPU has tessellation too, unless Nintendo took it out. Although its probably the AMD implementation (what you call "fixed", same as on 360). Apparently the AMD implementation was more efficient in the way it handled LOD but Nvidia and MS forced AMD to carry the fully programmable one through Direct X 11. I don't think its a real disadvantage. If you look at the tessellation demos on 360, they did incredible things... demonstrating the power of even the previous HD twins was never fully realized.

 

[ArchangelWest]

Regarding the X86 thing... I think that part of what makes Nintendo what they are is that they create their hardware stemming from the root of their own ideas of what at least one branch of gaming should be. Going with the same architecture as the others puts 3 consoles on the market that are so directly comparable, that it's kind of pointless.

I think that there are just too many people out there that don't realize or care about this. Their bottom line seems to be their desire for a world where Nintendo has abandoned hardware and makes games for Sony and/or MS consoles. Nintendo adopting the same hardware as staple is just another step in that direction and that's why (not everyone) so many people want that. Because then the next question they'll have is, 'Why bother making a Nintendo console at this point?' they could save money by just putting their games on the consoles of others.'

 

[joesiv]

I think that there are just too many people out there that don't realize or care about this. Their bottom line seems to be their desire for a world where Nintendo has abandoned hardware and makes games for Sony and/or MS consoles. Nintendo adopting the same hardware as staple is just another step in that direction and that's why (not everyone) so many people want that..

Who cares about x86, some of us just want a box that has Nintendo franchises on it that isn't a generation behind in terms of technology. Having third party support for the other big multiplats is a huge bonus! If going x86 is what is neccisary to get there, so beit.

Imagine a metroid that has he budget and graphics of bf4... Maybe it's just me. I'll still get a wii u one of these days, Nintendo games have never looked better, but I'm sad of what they could have been with better had hardware and 4x's the budget.

 

[Apophis2036]

Regarding the X86 thing... I think that part of what makes Nintendo what they are is that they create their hardware stemming from the root of their own ideas of what at least one branch of gaming should be. Going with the same architecture as the others puts 3 consoles on the market that are so directly comparable, that it's kind of pointless.

I think that there are just too many people out there that don't realize or care about this. Their bottom line seems to be their desire for a world where Nintendo has abandoned hardware and makes games for Sony and/or MS consoles. Nintendo adopting the same hardware as staple is just another step in that direction and that's why (not everyone) so many people want that. Because then the next question they'll have is, 'Why bother making a Nintendo console at this point?' they could save money by just putting their games on the consoles of others.'

Nintendo will make great games no matter what the hardware is, the point is with x86 as the industry standard they would be much more likely to get third party multiplatform games by going with that.

They can still be Nintendo with their as always unique controller.

As for the why not just put their games on other consoles, they would have to give up 25% of every first part game sale to Sony or MS if they did that.

I'm really hoping for an on par with XBOX ONE specs Nintendo console in time for Christmas 2016, if the generation again goes on for eight year it would give the new console parity with the other two for at five least years. Maybe this was Nintendo's plan all along and WiiU was a stepping stone to teach their developers how to use shaders and work in HD.

 

[GameGuru59]

I'm really hoping for an on par with XBOX ONE specs Nintendo console in time for Christmas 2016, if the generation again goes on for eight year it would give the new console parity with the other two for at five least years. Maybe this was Nintendo's plan all along and WiiU was a stepping stone to teach their developers how to use shaders and work in HD.

I think Nintendo like 5-6 year cycles so yes. I can see PS4/One going till 2022, like I've said before. With their new console I hope they stick with the Power architecture and go with a Power 7 based processor (or whatever is current at the time), x86 must die!

nintendo will never spend the kind of budget BF4 has, metroid prime looked fine and didnt have anywhere near the budget of battlefield 4, unlike EA nintendo is smart with their money

Indeed, that's why they're still in business. They don't spend 100 million to profit 10 million. They spend 10 million (if that) to profit 100 million. Hell, Pokemon probably does that twice a generation. The NSMB games probably see even greater margins.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Who cares about x86, some of us just want a box that has Nintendo franchises on it that isn't a generation behind in terms of technology. Having third party support for the other big multiplats is a huge bonus! If going x86 is what is neccisary to get there, so beit.

Imagine a metroid that has he budget and graphics of bf4... Maybe it's just me. I'll still get a wii u one of these days, Nintendo games have never looked better, but I'm sad of what they could have been with better had hardware and 4x's the budget.

nintendo will never spend the kind of budget BF4 has, metroid prime looked fine and didnt have anywhere near the budget of battlefield 4, unlike EA nintendo is smart with their money

 

[ExigentContact]

I think Nintendo like 5-6 year cycles so yes. I can see PS4/One going till 2022, like I've said before.

I doubt that very much. Both Sony and Microsoft have invested less in the hardware of their systems. This A: makes the systems profitable more quickly and B: lowers the price gateway for the consoles. The 360 and PS3 were two massive tanks ready to go to war and both Sony and MS had lofty ambitions of ten year life cycles for their systems. It took a while for upper-midrange PCs to catch up to them entirely. The PS4 and Xbox One hardware-wise will not last that long, and there's no indication that the same level of continued support will be the norm. A ton of publishers were growing weary of the elongated generation we just went through, and I doubt that either party will want to piss off their support. I see seven-to-ten year lifecycles in the way the PS1 and PS2 lasted ten years, not the way that the PS3 and Xbox 360 lasted seven and eight years. They'll get replaced about five or six years in, but will see support (PS2s didn't exit production until very recently) whereas the latter pair didn't see replacements until nearing the decade threshold.

There's also a ton of rapidly changing market conditions that make the ten year plan unwieldy for consoles.

 

[foxuzamaki]

I don't need proof, they have never worked on PS360 as far as I know so how would they know how WiiU's GPU compares to PS360's GPU's ?.

If that statement came from Ubisoft or the like I would take it seriously and actually be impressed.

man, their whole thing is taking hardware and playing around with them, i would not be surprised at all if they've played with the xeno, and with that, im sure they have eyes and know what the wiiU is doing that wasent really seen on the PS60, they're tech gurus and not publishers like ubisoft where 99% of what they say is PR so idk why you would trust thri word over an actual developer

 

[GameGuru59]

There's also a ton of rapidly changing market conditions that make the ten year plan unwieldy for consoles.

Hopefully at some point in the near future some hardware manufacturer proposes a universal console based on an Android OS with respectable specs compared to the new HD twins. It'd be great for the industry to finally have a universal console.

(after getting their ass whooped by this universal "open" console) All manufacturers (Ninty, MS, Sony,+ whoever else wants to jump in like Samsung or LG) would agree to build to this minimum spec (like the DVD, Blu Ray or VCR player standards) and could add enhancements if they wanted (just like you can for DVD/Blu Ray players). As time goes on, the minimum spec would change in "generations" like we currently have. Its a dream, I know, but this lack of competition is partly why the new gen. will last 8 to 10 years.

 

[lwilliams3]

Also, the Wii U's GPU has tessellation too, unless Nintendo took it out. Although its probably the AMD implementation (what you call "fixed", same as on 360). Apparently the AMD implementation was more efficient in the way it handled LOD but Nvidia and MS forced AMD to carry the fully programmable one through Direct X 11. I don't think its a real disadvantage. If you look at the tessellation demos on 360, they did incredible things... demonstrating the power of even the previous HD twins was never fully realized.

Tessellation was listed in the leaked Wii U's documents, so it is very likely that it is in there. It is also possible that it is efficently beyond what was in the original r700, but there is nothing official about that.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Well, I guess from my perspective, if the GPU is so much better, shouldn't we be seeing improved resolution, or possibly framerate?

Even if your game is CPU limited, bottlenecking framerate, why not increase the resolution if the GPU has headroom? (I'm thinking out loud here - maybe limitations fitting the framebuffer in the embedded memory? If that's the case then it will be hard for a native WiiU game to hit higher resolutions too...)

If the game is not CPU limited shouldn't it be trivial to get a higher framerate at the same resolution? (Maybe there aren't many games that aren't CPU limited...at least not enough to run at 60 vs 30...)

I guess I'm really asking for evidence that the GPU is significantly better than current gen - honestly have not seen anything to prove that point.

For example, if the GPU was clearly better, I would have thought they would have been able to get COD:BO2 to run at a higher resolution than the current generation games... (apparently it runs at 880x720 like the Xbox version: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-wii-u-face-off)

Wii U is a step up from the last gen. Not much of one. I'm seeing games that look very similar to the last gen with some better textures, lighting, slightly more stable framerate (now that software has matured) and slightly better resolution. The lighting seems to be the biggest difference. Great for a Nintendo system, but Wii U is going to be absolutely destroyed by the Xbone and PS4 graphically a year after their launches. Destroyed.

I'm still waiting for a reason to buy the Wii U tho.

 

[blu]

Nintendo will make great games no matter what the hardware is, the point is with x86 as the industry standard they would be much more likely to get third party multiplatform games by going with that.

Which industry is that?

 

[Disorientator]

Let's not forget that a lot of game development moved to deffered rendering. Its drawback is it eats up bandwidth.

Shinen on deferred rendering: (source)

We've gone deferred+HDR. Very simple and fast on WiiU because all renderTargets fit in EDRAM.

NAN used forward rendering because we were afraid deferred would be too slow for 60fps. Fortunately it works great on Wii U

You can do pretty shading/lighting with forward or deferred, but deferred makes iteration time on new ideas much shorter

 

[blu]

Shinen on deferred rendering:

It's nice to see the comments of a competent developer, for a change. Boosts trust in this otherwise man-child industry and its inane 'horrid, slow cpu, can't do crap on <insert-platform>'.

 

[Log4Girlz]

It's nice to see the comments of a competent developer, for a change. Boosts trust in this otherwise man-child industry and its inane 'horrid, slow cpu, can't do crap on <insert-platform>'.

I'm glad Wii U is only attracting competent developers. EA can stay away. Nintendo doesn't need their games.

 

[SmokyDave]

It's nice to see the comments of a competent developer, for a change. Boosts trust in this otherwise man-child industry and its inane 'horrid, slow cpu, can't do crap on <insert-platform>'.

....Jesus.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

round and round and round and round and round and round this thread goes.

 

[blu]

....Jesus.

Calling to divine authority?

 

[69wpm]

....Jesus.

If you're looking for Jesus, he is not here, we're talking about the GPU.

Moving on. It's interesting that Shin'en is pretty much the only developer talking a bit more about what the Wii U can do. Why isn't anybody else so vocal about the GPU? They are clearly not breaking any NDA.

 

[Horse Armour]

It's nice to see the comments of a competent developer, for a change. Boosts trust in this otherwise man-child industry and its inane 'horrid, slow cpu, can't do crap on <insert-platform>'.

Unreal.

 

[SmokyDave]

Calling to divine authority?

I just couldn't believe what I was reading.

For a demographic that traditionally preach about gameplay and reject the notion that power matters, there are some really odd posts in this thread.

 

[OminoMichelin]

I just couldn't believe what I was reading.

For a demographic that traditionally preach about gameplay and reject the notion that power matters, there are some really odd posts in this thread.

The gaming community is a fickle beast.
edit: when did I become a Member

 

[tesla246]

ignore this post: copied the quoted text in a not edited post. My mistake

 

[blu]

I just couldn't believe what I was reading.

For a demographic that traditionally preach about gameplay and reject the notion that power matters, there are some really odd posts in this thread.

Mmm, the taste of fresh mis-characterization in the morning.

 

[tesla246]

It's nice to see the comments of a competent developer, for a change. Boosts trust in this otherwise man-child industry and its inane 'horrid, slow cpu, can't do crap on <insert-platform>'.

I concur. Altough wiiu isnt as powerful as i would have liked, it has also had way too many negatives regarding its innards without substantial knowledge too back up these comments

I just couldn't believe what I was reading.

For a demographic that traditionally preach about gameplay and reject the notion that power matters, there are some really odd posts in this thread.

There are a lot of individuals who do not fit that demographic.

 

[shakin_haitian]

Ya'll do realize that Smokey Dave only posts to get bites, right?

 

[RobotVM]

I have to agree with a earlier post that the Wii U may not be as powerful as the PS4/XB1 but I believe that over all the jump in the look of games from last gen to this gen will not be too much different. The big difference will be the frame rate and resolution. Also with more ram we will see less loading time and bigger areas.

 

[Riki]

round and round and round and round and round and round this thread goes.

Like sand in an hour glass, these are the days of our lives

 

[The_Lump]

I just couldn't believe what I was reading.

For a demographic that traditionally preach about gameplay and reject the notion that power matters, there are some really odd posts in this thread.

Well you're hive minding a bit there dude. You're generalizing an entire thread and 'demographic' based on one post, without specifically calling out any one bit of information.

You're also transposing a different meaning onto blu's post: You could still "reject the notion that power matters" whilst agreeing with what he said. He didn't even mention the power debate, just that it's refreshing to hear a developer be so open and speak about the technical aspects. That doesn't happen a lot with WiiU.

The stereotypical Nintendo zeelot may in many people's view preach "gameplay > power" etc, but even then this is a thread about the GPU; so people enjoying hearing experienced, competent developers openly talk about it is to be expected.

 

[Zoramon089]

Ya'll do realize that Smokey Dave only posts to get bites, right?

I think his avatar kind of adds to that. So smug!

 

[Van Owen]

The power arguments are kind of moot at this point. Even if it is more than a very marginal increase over current gen no developer is going to put any effort into it since it's sells like shit.

 

[The_Lump]

The power arguments are kind of moot at this point. Even if it is more than a very marginal increase over current gen no developer is going to put any effort into it since it's sells like shit.

The power argument isn't really moot in a GPU/Power Analysis thread though, is it? As long as there are developers talking about it there'll be people in this thread talking about it.

Sales don't come into this debate.

 

[fred]

I'd take the dropped frames over tearing any day.

Me too. Screen tearing is a HUGE bugbear of mine and a source of constant frustration. I really can't see the point of a developer pulling out all the stops to have high IQ and more realistic looking games when they turn to shite immediately whenever you move the fucking camera. I'm getting annoyed just thinking about it tbh.

 

[NBtoaster]

We already have multipats that perform better than the HD twins...

That doesn't invalidate those that don't. Every engine has different demands and there are guaranteed to be bottlenecks with Wii U hardware that prevent it from running all engines well. Like every other console.

 

[lightchris]

I have to agree with a earlier post that the Wii U may not be as powerful as the PS4/XB1 but I believe that over all the jump in the look of games from last gen to this gen will not be too much different. The big difference will be the frame rate and resolution. Also with more ram we will see less loading time and bigger areas.

You could be in for a nasty surprise here. All that RAM has to be filled at some time. For example, loading 1 GB of data from the blu-ray will take 38 seconds in best case (at the full 27 GB/s the PS4's drive offers).
Of course the game will not load all data before the game or level loads but stream them in over time. Also the drives got faster, and installing some data on the HDD will help. Still, looking at the increase of > 10 times the available RAM on PS4/XBO over PS3/360 I fear that loading times won't get better at all. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they get a little worse on average.

 

[RobotVM]

You could be in for a nasty surprise here. All that RAM has to be filled at some time. For example, loading 1 GB of data from the blu-ray will take 38 seconds in best case (at the full 27 GB/s the PS4's drive offers).
Of course the game will not load all data before the game or level loads but stream them in over time. Also the drives got faster, and installing some data on the HDD will help. Still, looking at the increase of > 10 times the available RAM on PS4/XBO over PS3/360 I fear that loading times won't get better at all. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they get a little worse on average.

Could this help account for the horrible load times in Lego City?

 

[Starfish Hero]

I just couldn't believe what I was reading.

For a demographic that traditionally preach about gameplay and reject the notion that power matters, there are some really odd posts in this thread.

The power arguments are kind of moot at this point. Even if it is more than a very marginal increase over current gen no developer is going to put any effort into it since it's sells like shit.

Thread: WiiU "Latte" GPU Die Photo - GPU Feature Set And Power Analysis

I really don't know what you guys expected.

 

[fred]

I don't need proof, they have never worked on PS360 as far as I know so how would they know how WiiU's GPU compares to PS360's GPU's ?.

If that statement came from Ubisoft or the like I would take it seriously and actually be impressed.

They don't need to have worked on the PS3 or 360 to know that Latte is a few generations ahead of what are basically an ATI Radeon 2000HD and an Nvidia GeForce 7800 GT (or is it a GX, my memory is failing me?). All they need to have worked on is Latte to know this.

And that's before you take into account the DX9 feature sets and compare them to the weird DX10.1/DX11 mashed potato feature set (confirmed by documentation from Slightly Mad Studios, Shin'En with regards to tesselation, Unity regarding their engine on the Wii U being capable of DX11 equivalent features and Iwata who confirmed Compute Shaders).

And if that wasn't enough you just need to use your mince pies and see for yourself by comparing and contrasting the shedload of images that have been posted again and yet again of X, Bayonetta 1 and Bayonetta 2. I really can't make up my mind whether you're simply trolling, have poor eyesight or are inteliguntly chalinged lol.